Is Celestia really the right ruler for the job?

[Roughshod 719]

Honestly, Celestia never bothered me too bad. I think the reason anyone may have a bad vibe about her is, because, well, she IS Celestia. And the above comment does make a good point. She can seem useless at lots of times, but in the end, she's a pretty decent character.

 

In respect to her personal character I don't have much to say because the majority of what we see is in her official element. The entire core of her character is that of a (supposedly) benevolent ruler and surrogate mother figure towards Twilight and the rest of the mane 6. 

[Castle Bleck 19,302]

Would you rather have NMM, Discord, Chrysalis, Sombra, Tirek, etc. in charge?

[Roughshod 719]

Would you rather have NMM, Discord, Chrysalis, Sombra, Tirek, etc. in charge?

 

Could be fun, who knows? If what you're saying is that Celestia is just the best of the worst and that she's simply a nicer type of tyrant than I suppose it's hard to argue that. I still think Equestria could do better though.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

Would you rather have NMM, Discord, Chrysalis, Sombra, Tirek, etc. in charge?

 

Certainly not Nightmare Moon, since she foolishly seems to believe that the world can thrive without the sun. 

 

Discord? Nah. Everything he does is for his own amusement. 

 

Chrysalis? Considering that her main motivation is devouring love, who's to say that she isn't actually a fairly benevolent ruler? Yes, I'd be willing to put money on her. 

 

Sombra? Eh, I'll go out on a limb and say that it might be a bit better for Equestria if it were left in Celestia's hooves rather than his. Just a bit, though. 

 

Tirek? Nope. Like Celestia, he also seems to lack any ability to make coherent decisions. He clearly had an open opportunity to kill Twilight or at least send her to Tartarus with the other three alicorns after she gave him her power, yet he did not take advantage of it. 

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Just a little extra detail for the thread. Celestia said that if the Crystal Empire were restored, love and light would fill all of Equestria, just before she sent her only pupil off to handle it.

 

Well? Where's this prosperity and joy that was supposed to happen? All they wound up getting was some fancy aurora in the sky, temporarily I might add. Isn't that basically like Celestia failing to keep a campaign promise?

[Roughshod 719]

 

 

Just a little extra detail for the thread. Celestia said that if the Crystal Empire were restored, love and light would fill all of Equestria, just before she sent her only pupil off to handle it.   Well? Where's this prosperity and joy that was supposed to happen? All they wound up getting was some fancy aurora in the sky, temporarily I might add. Isn't that basically like Celestia failing to keep a campaign promise?

 

This is true. It does not seem as if anything of great significance has resulted from the return of the Empire. Celestia  may have overestimated the importance of the Crystal Heart and its influence for the rest of Equestria. It's also possible that she was simply being idealistic and speaking metaphorically.

 

A campaign promise? i would call her claim a hypothesis more than a promise. Celestia has no real accountability so it makes no difference whether or not she keeps her promises anyway.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

This is true. It does not seem as if anything of great significance has resulted from the return of the Empire. Celestia  may have overestimated the importance of the Crystal Heart and its influence for the rest of Equestria. It's also possible that she was simply being idealistic and speaking metaphorically.

 

A campaign promise? i would call her claim a hypothesis more than a promise. Celestia has no real accountability so it makes no difference whether or not she keeps her promises anyway.

Of course I don't mean it like a campaign promise literally, but it seems like as close to that sort of thing as the sovereign princess could get, you know?

[Roughshod 719]

 

 

Of course I don't mean it like a campaign promise literally, but it seems like as close to that sort of thing as the sovereign princess could get, you know?

 

 

If you're pointing this out as yet another example of Celestia messing up then I would agree with your sentiment. Even though Celestia's position does not innately require anyone's trust or public approval I still think her misjudgment of the outcome is worth mentioning. 

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Here is a good video I feel offers reasoning why A Canterlot Wedding was not a mark against Celestia, that Chrysalis was actually just that good of a planner to pull of what she did.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Here is a good video I feel offers reasoning why A Canterlot Wedding was not a mark against Celestia, that Chrysalis was actually just that good of a planner to pull of what she did.

No, those explanations are extremely dumb, he has no idea what he's arguing against.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Well I disagree and feel you have dismissed this video without even giving it consideration. You own bias blinding you from the fact his explanation and reasoning for Chrysalis  actually work with what is show in a Canterlot Wedding. You didn't even try to take even a moment to consider what was said!

Edited January 25, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Well I disagree and feel you have dismissed this video without even giving it consideration. You own bias blinding you from the fact his explanation and reasoning for Chrysalis  actually work with what is show in a Canterlot Wedding. You didn't even try to take even a moment to consider what was said!

Considering you came to that conclusion without consideration, I think YOUR biases are preventing you from even thinking he might be wrong and asking me about it. If you actually watch the episodes, you'll see a lot of what he says is factually incorrect.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Considering you came to that conclusion without consideration, I think YOUR biases are preventing you from even thinking he might be wrong and asking me about it. If you actually watch the episodes, you'll see a lot of what he says is factually incorrect.

No, I am justified. You soundly and solidly dismissed the FieryJoker's video without really explaining why. He offered explanation for his reasoning and thoughts while you haven't taken the time to explain why you feel his reasoning is dumb.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

No, I am justified.

Yup, this is your position and nothing in the world could change it. That's why I didn't take the time to explain in the first place actually, to see if you were even open to listening. But you're not.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Yup, this is your position and nothing in the world could change it. That's why I didn't take the time to explain in the first place actually, to see if you were even open to listening. But you're not.

I just have, though it is in the other thread for the A Canterlot Wedding itself. Convince me that the FieryJoker has no idea what he is talking about and that his video is stupid, that I am being stupid in offering the video here in trying to show a different way to look at things. I am all ears... eyes, however the expression works online.

Edited January 25, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Roughshod 719]

@@EquestrianScholar,@@Dulset Tarn, You're both being petty and arguing just for it's own sake without adding much to the forum.

 

 

 

Here is a good video I feel offers reasoning why A Canterlot Wedding was not a mark against Celestia, that Chrysalis was actually just that good of a planner to pull of what she did.

 

 

Are you actually trying to defend Celestia's ability and worth as a ruler on the basis that Chrysalis was smarter and more prepared than her? You seem to be a defender of Celestia so this seems like an odd approach to me. Chrysallis is certainly one of the most manipulative villains we've seen but in the end she made the mistake of allowing her hubris to convince her she had won before that was actually assured. She didn't even acknowledge the threat that the magical love between Cadance and Shining Armor posed to her despite having experienced it's power and utilizing it firsthand. 

 

Also, where the hay was Luna? And why didn't Celestia seek her assistance? I suppose she was probably sleeping all day... hmph.:okiedokielokie:

Edited January 25, 2015 by Roughshod

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@Roughshod,

Well, it is more covering many of the issues with A Canterlet Wedding not only Celestia's place in it. But I was offering that Celestia couldn't be accused of stupidity if the villain was actually smart in their planning, as even the best of leaders can find themselves apart of another's plotting and planning. By bringing Chrysalis up a bit it allows Celestia to have more excuse in failure, as my defense of the princess does not involve having her be perfect or unable to make mistakes.

 

Also I apologize if my posts have come off a bit petty and childish.

Edited January 25, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Roughshod 719]

 

 

Well, it is more covering many of the issues with A Canterlet Wedding not only Celestia's place in it.

 

That's fine and all but this forum is meant to be centred on Celestia as a ruler of Equestria, so that's the point I think is most relevant to the discussion here.

 

 

 

But I was offering that Celestia couldn't be accused of stupidity if the villain was actually smart in their planning, as even the best of leaders can find themselves apart of another's plotting and planning. By bring Chrysalis up a bit it allows before Celestia to have more excuse for failure, as my defense of the princess does not involve having her be perfect or unable to make mistakes.

 

 

This is true, for the most part. I don't believe Celestia needs to be completely clairvoyant(despite being able to have visions) and I don't expect her to be cognizant of everything that transpires around her(despite the protests of Twilight and the evident change of behaviour in her own niece). But even if Celestia is not directly to blame she is still responsible for her shortcomings as a leader. Regardless of the reasons, she is the highest authority and chief protector, that means when a crisis emerges it is on her to resolve it. She failed to do this and that's what it comes down to in the end.

 

 

 

Also I apologize if my posts have come off a bit petty and childish

 

 

Most of us here likely fit that description in some manner but it doesn't serve any productive purpose to argue in circles to no effect.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

(despite being able to have visions)

Oh god I keep forgetting about that and facepalm every time I'm reminded...

 

 

(despite the protests of Twilight and the evident change of behaviour in her own niece)

Oh oh, this reminds me of something actually relevant to the thread! Ok so when A Canterlot Wedding first came out, we really don't know who Cadence is. Sure she spent some time in Canterlot years ago foalsitting Twilight, but I thought it was a fairly reasonable assumption that she's just some foreign princess from outside of Equestria. Celestia really wouldn't know much about her, and would consider Twilight's accusation as something of a diplomatic incident, which would make her appropriately peeved.

 

But in hindsight, Celestia and Cadence are close friends, if not family! While at the time it made sense for her to not notice anything off about Cadence, now it's just ridiculous!

Oh and I wouldn't mind if a mod gets rid of the argument from this thread.

[Roughshod 719]

 

 

But in hindsight, Celestia and Cadence are close friends, if not family! While at the time it made sense for her to not notice anything off about Cadence, now it's just ridiculous!

 

 

First she  ignores and alienates her sister to the point of driving her into rebellion and then she apparently loses touch with her own niece to the point that she can't even distinguish her personality anymore. It seems pretty clear that Celestia has little interest or capacity in managing her family matters. Now I do understand that as a princess she must be busy, but come on, in both of these cases Equestria's safety has hung in the balance. For shame, -_-

[Dulset Tarn 441]

First she  ignores and alienates her sister to the point of driving her into rebellion and then she apparently loses touch with her own niece to the point that she can't even distinguish her personality anymore.

Not to mention she completely decides how her #1 pupil's life will go without ever asking or telling her ahead of time.

And failed to keep her previous pupil in check before she became a megalomaniacal psycho.

(Though I have a headcanon that those two are very closely related)

But I'm sure those have been brought up here already, probably multiple times.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

 

 

Are you actually trying to defend Celestia's ability and worth as a ruler on the basis that Chrysalis was smarter and more prepared than her?

 

 

Keep in mind that as far as Celestia's failures go, A Canterlot Wedding was actually one of her least, because even though she wound up finding herself helplessly trapped inside a cocoon, at least she did actually make an attempt to stop Chrysalis. 

 

This is unlike The Crystal Empire where she simply sat back and did nothing, and Twilight's Kingdom where she simply decided to dump her power on Twilight and allowed herself to be sent off to Tartarus without putting up any sort of fight whatsoever. 

 

 

 

Also, where the hay was Luna? And why didn't Celestia seek her assistance? I suppose she was probably sleeping all day... hmph.

 

Yeah, I always found it funny that that Luna just nonchalantly asks "Did I miss anything?" once the threat has already been dealt with. 

 

Yes, Luna, you did miss something... 

[Roughshod 719]

 

 

Keep in mind that as far as Celestia's failures go, A Canterlot Wedding was actually one of her least, because even though she wound up finding herself helplessly trapped inside a cocoon, at least she did actually make an attempt to stop Chrysalis.

 

Haha, very well. Even though she failed miserably I suppose she should still get some recognition for trying. But then again what was the alternative with an enemy basically declaring their intentions to take over your country right in front of you and everyone else? Would Celestia just sit back and be like "Whatevs, I'm tired of this job anyway... Go for it girl."? That would be highly comical but also very hard to explain afterwards.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

I gotta say though, even the very first time I saw it, when Celestia tells them to get the elements, I was thinking "Dammit Celestia are you stupid? Did you forget that they're behind a magical lock that only you can open??"

[Roughshod 719]

I gotta say though, even the very first time I saw it, when Celestia tells them to get the elements, I was thinking "Dammit Celestia are you stupid? Did you forget that they're behind a magical lock that only you can open??"

 

Well, her and Discord it seems. I thought it was funny how Twilight seemed so assured of the Elements' safety in 'Keep Clam and Flutter On' because Celestia had enchanted them despite the fact that such measures had previously been taken and shown to be futile. Even if you want to claim that Celestia would likely have taken greater precaution this time we have no real way of knowing that and neither did Twilight.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Roughshod