Is Celestia really the right ruler for the job?

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,153]

I personally think she's the right ruler for the job, but that doesn't mean she's perfect. She's made mistakes (misjudgement on her part regarding Discord, her actions during the Reflection arc comics, etc) and she's been bested by Changelings and Everfree vines, but the people seem more or less satsified and or content, so she must be doing something right, IMO.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

This video is perfect for this discussion:

This fanfiction brings forward Celestia's actions and decisions... in one very creative way taking all the criticism from fans involving her actions by crystallized that into a single figure trying to convince Twilight that her teacher was evil and manipulative tyrant undeserving of rulership.

Edited April 19, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Queen_Tia 14]

I guess she's ok she's nice and stuff..

[colt_following 169]

I've wondered, but man, she's intimidating AND kind at the same time. I think that's what you need.

I mean, from one aspect, she does seem to always need to call on the Elements of Harmony to save Equestria, but hey, a Leader can't fight without an Army!

[Honsou 399]

I'm just wondering where everypony is coming up with Luna burst at the seams at taking Tia's job for a day...

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@Honsou,

Actually, in the comics at least, they have had Luna take her sister's day job for a day... and she realized Celestia job was fair too tiring and busy for her with fair too many meetings, activities, and social events. All the while with Celestia taking a day off and going to the spa, as offered by Luna... and then Luna saying she wanted the night again, leaving her pulling a double shift despite how exhausted she was by the end of the day.

 

I found it especially humorous since for all intents Celestia had to pull double shift herself for a 1000 years and offering the idea that she would love her sister to do her job every now and then. -chuckles-

[Honsou 399]

@EquestrianScholar

 

Which comic was this? I would very much like to read it. I hate not knowing all the fluff and lore that goes with the series. 

Edited April 24, 2015 by Honsou

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@Honsou,

It is the My Little Pony Micro -Series comic #10, titled The Day Shift. I will see if I can find you a means of reading or viewing the comic.

[TailsIsNotAlone 3,694]

This video is perfect for this discussion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVBGQBfz2k

 

This fanfiction brings forward Celestia's actions and decisions... in one very creative way taking all the criticism from fans involving her actions by crystallized that into a single figure trying to convince Twilight that her teacher was evil and manipulative tyrant undeserving of rulership.

I've read that fic. It's not so much a story as a fictionalized forum argument with undisguised resentment for other positions. I articulated this in my feedback to the author:

 

 

Much like your Twilight, this story has a good part and a bad part. It's meticulously well written, well thought out, and has a clear message. But it's also ponderous, preachy, and overstated with unsettling meta overtones. It's a black-and-white polemic, articulating two opposite sides of an argument so that one can knock the other down. The antagonist is weak and your position was clear to me almost from the outset, which reduces the ending to an afterthought.

 

In my eyes, the bad part overwhelms the good, and the story leaves me feeling tired and depressed. You say that it is a reaction against anti-Celestia fics, and it reads like one. I've written a few stories like this in the past, and I now regret them. They may satisfy some emotional need on the part of the author. But they run contrary to the spirit of the show and fan fiction in general. They are more destructive and divisive than the things they oppose. I don't see Celestia as incompetent or tyrannical either, but if other fans do--or at least want to explore the potential of the idea--is that such a bad thing?  

 

The pro-Celestia position expressed here fails to be any more satisfying than the anti-Celestia position. How is the "real" Twilight Sparkle in this story, who struggles to rationalize Celestia's every action as correct, any more genuine than the angry and bitter caricature of "False" Twilight? The actual Twilight--the one in the show--has likely never asked herself those questions before. How do we know what her answers would be? Furthermore, is False Twilight simply a convenient villain, or does she also reflect your perception of those who, in spite of your arguments, would still harbor doubts about Celestia and the change? I hope that's not the case.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@TailsIsNotAlone,
Hmm, well I see this fan fiction more favorably then this but perhaps it is because of how tired I have been of those who try to make Celestia out to be the worst thing ever. Of note, is that I am not talking about those who merely explore the idea of of tyrannical, manipulative, trollish, or incompetent in a fanfiction or story idea... but those who honestly believe Celestia is of such a character. This is why I find The Folly of Celestia such a breath of fresh air, more then that I feel it shows a well thought out debate.

More I find the accusationary side was very realistic from conversions I have had on forums, not made into a strawman but offering their own points good or bad. Yet I am then glad to see the author, through the eyes and mouth of Twilight Sparkle, fair counterpoints even if a perfectly solid answer can be offered. I am sorry to say that I have seen those that would continue to hate of Celestia despite all that is offered by defenders of Princess Celestia.

Twilight won the debate, but her opponent would not let go of her hate and resentment, and was left alone. I admit though to being curious of what this 'anti-Twilight' is or wonder if she may be an AU Twilight, perhaps a dark side created by another or unknowingly by Twilight. Still, every point made was good I feel and the defense raised was much better then I could ever give. Seriously, I saw nothing out of place, and I feel the FieryJoker was more then fair towards those that attack Celestia while offering strong counterpoints.

Again though, these are my feelings of the subject and I am just glad that I now have something I can offer that can combat the criticism and unfair attacks of others against Celestia better then I have ever in the past. Even if I don't use the video itself, I would use the points offered by it in defending a princess so mistreated as the diarch of the sun.

Also, on why Twilight struggles at times is because as mentioned, she has never taken the time to consider the arguments presented her. I find it realistic that she might be at first uncertain how to counter certain points made. Yet she does and does so brilliantly, the words make by the cloaked figure were not always easy ones to answer but as all debates it was a situation of give and take. Both Twilight and Anti-Twilight conceded to certain points.

 

I also applaud you for de-constructing this tired and unfair view that Celestia is a Tyrant and a Troll. I don't like it when any character, no matter their role or what form of media they're in, is demonized for things that they might or most definitely haven't done or twisting the original personality to the point where the fan interpretation is more accepted then what the actual character is in its own story.

This is a point I would like to use, quoted from another commentor, that I feel really shows itself in the fanfiction. There was a purpose to this fanfiction, but one I argue was well thought out, reasoned, and considered while allowing the opposing side the chance to offer their own points.

Something I really LOVED about this fic, though, was the way you wrote False Twilight. She's basically a creation of the anti-Celestia portion of the fandom--they are hellbent on their theories, twist the canon to make it work in the Friendship Is Magic, and for the most part, won't listen when you attempt to debate them on the subject. I thought that was interesting.

This is something else I feel the need to point out that worked well in my eyes for the story.

Also, congrats on being one of the very few 'I wrote this fic to argue back against fan critics' that /avoided/ being a straw man.   Remember, folks, straw manning is not when you represent your opponent's arguments, but when you /mis/-represent them.  Since the arguments Josh had False Twilight make are identical to the ones I have seen genuine advocates of the Tyrant Sun Theory make repeatedly, without being exaggerated or having their points misrepresented to make them easier to take apart, and then Josh takes them apart anyway straight-up, I can only say again -- "nice job".

Something else that should be noted, by offering a reply by another on the subject... again.

Edited April 24, 2015 by EquestrianScholar