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Free Will


Linguz

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Do we have free will or are all actions already set in stone?

An omniscient, omnipresent, and omnitemporal god would know everything that will happen. What do you think of this?

(You do not have to believe in any god to be able to answer the question.)

 

I believe we do have free will, to some degree. We are given choices, and those choices lead to other choices, and the cycle continues. The path between the choices is extremely short but set in stone, yet is generally unknown and impossible to detect due to the amount of choices we get in our. Our free will comes into play with the choices. For example, I could either post this topic, delete it entirely, or leave it open indefinitely and each of those brings up another choice. Spoiler will be a view of my vision without using so many words. I did it to the second choice, the choice that comes after the original choice.

 

> What to do about this topic?

>> Post it.

>>> Edit the topic to make more or less sense.

>>> Delete the topic.

>>> Leave the topic be and wait for responses.

>>> Many Other Options.

>> Delete it.

>>> Have doubts of whether I shouldn't make it and remake it.

>>> Keep browsing the site.

>>> Many Other Options.

>> Leave it open, but don't post it.

>>> Go back to it and post it.

>>> Go back to it and delete it.

>>> Forget about it and shut off computer (eventually).

>>> Many Other Options.

>> Many Other Options.

 

I believe the omniscient and omnipresent god knows every possible path we can take. Instead of knowing which path we will take, he knows which paths we are most likely to take from our personality. This means that the world does not function as the god sees fit but instead can vary greatly from the god's prediction.

Edited by Linguz
Adding the Debate prefix
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I believe in Multiverse theory. As sentient beings, we change and reshape reality around us without even knowing it. Every thought we have and every choice we make causes our reality to split off into infinite possibilities. Everything you can imagine, and way more than you could possibly imagine exist somewhere in the endless multiverse. We have free will, and just the act of choosing changes reality as we know it.

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Free will.

 

I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life.

 

However, there are people in positions of power who's free will imposes less free will on other people, creating the illusion of having no choice.

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Of course we have free will, we are given brains so we can use them

 

There are many things in place that mask free will though. Many peoples lives are controlled by others, but it doesn't mean they can't still think for themselves. They just can't or don't act because of fear instilled by someone with power over them. I'm all for people doing whatever they want, provided it isn't something that effects anothers life in a negative way.

 

Right now I am in a position where nothing is holding me back, and I'm trying to take advantage of the situation. As for those voices in my head telling me what to do though, I just ignore them ;)

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"You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;

I will choose a path that's clear-

I will choose Free Will. "

 

*Lyrics by Rush*

 

I believe we do have free will, otherwise we wouldn't be unique...

 

​I don't have anything philosophical to say that'll back me up, but, I have reason to believe if what we did wasn't up to us, we'd be controlled by "The Machine"

 

And you're either controlled by the machine, or you're rebellious... choose your path carefully...

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I see a lot of people are thinking that just because we think we're choosing our own actions we are choosing our own actions. I'm going to use the Christian God as an example: He is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. Therefore, he knows what will happen and when it will happen and he knows all through time. If your actions are laid down before you and you are given choices, but it is already directed that you will follow a single one, and you think you chose it yourself, is this free will or not? I say no.

 

The difference in my view is that instead of a single path being laid down, every possible path is laid down.

 

Instead of just answering the basic question, what do you think of the Omnipresent and Omniscient God's roll in free will?

You don't have to believe in it to say your thoughts.

(This part of the question has been added to the OP. I will add more as time goes on to expand on the broad idea of free will.)

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I would like to think we have free will, but thinking about it always leads into a reciprocal feedback loop of second guessing myself and doubt that leaves me somewhat paranoid and questioning the very existence of reality as a whole. Not to mention the scientific experiments that show that the human body prepares for a motion before that motion is even sent from the brain.

 

I just don't like the idea of set paths and invisible puppet masters, as that can lead to indifference and apathy with the world. I prefer free will because it acknowledges that your actions have reactions, and you alone are held responsible for those actions, unless in circumstances where one choice is the only available option in your capabilities. Free will means that in order to make your life better you have to work for it, and it acts as a motivational factor for me to work towards a brighter future, rather than apathetically sit waiting for my life to run it's predetermined course.

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Well I believe there is an "ultimate future". What will happen will happen no matter what we do...but not because we can't control it but because the future has already compensated for the moves you will make.

...if that makes any sense to you guys :PPP

Edited by Lady Rarity Pony
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Well I believe there is an "ultimate future". What will happen will happen no matter what we do...but not because we can't control it but because the future has already compensated for the moves you will make.

...if that makes any sense to you guys :PPP

 

Completely. Your thoughts are that the future is set in stone. That stone shifted to be so that everyone's actions would fall into line as they themselves wanted.

That's kinda how I view time traveling to the past. You can't alter the present by doing it, because you did do it during that period of time in the passt.

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Completely. Your thoughts are that the future is set in stone. That stone shifted to be so that everyone's actions would fall into line as they themselves wanted.

That's kinda how I view time traveling to the past. You can't alter the present by doing it, because you did do it during that period of time in the passt.

 

I'm glad you understand :)
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I see a lot of people are thinking that just because we think we're choosing our own actions we are choosing our own actions. I'm going to use the Christian God as an example: He is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. Therefore, he knows what will happen and when it will happen and he knows all through time. If your actions are laid down before you and you are given choices, but it is already directed that you will follow a single one, and you think you chose it yourself, is this free will or not? I say no.

 

The difference in my view is that instead of a single path being laid down, every possible path is laid down.

 

Instead of just answering the basic question, what do you think of the Omnipresent and Omniscient God's roll in free will?

You don't have to believe in it to say your thoughts.

(This part of the question has been added to the OP. I will add more as time goes on to expand on the broad idea of free will.)

 

I'm trying not to get too religious here, but I want to respond to this. I believe in God, but I don't believe in a grand plan, or that we are all bound by fate according to that plan. I agree that God knows everything that can happen, not everything that will happen. It makes no sense to me that he would create heaven and hell, and then pick which one we will go to before we are born. It seems like there would be no point to life then. I think that the meaning of life is that God wants to see what we will choose, and how we will grow according to our choices. But that is just my opinion.

Edited by Slendermane
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I'm trying not to get too religious here, but I want to respond to this. I believe in God, but I don't believe in a grand plan, or that we are all bound by fate according to that plan. I agree that God knows everything that can happen, not everything that will happen. It makes no sense to me that he would create heaven and hell, and then pick which one we will go to before we are born. It seems like there would be no point to life then. I think that the meaning of life is that God wants to see what we will choose, and how we will grow according to our choices. But that is just my opinion.

 

This is a philosophical question, so your view, religious or not, is accepted and contributes.

I like that. It coincides with my belief that humans and all other creatures are an experiment started by God as well as my view on free will. God made us, not to be the perfect race, but instead to see how we develop. We have multiple choices, and God is watching us, waiting to see which one we will take. The only difference seems to be that I believe that an omniscient and omnipresent being would be able to see a bit more than that, he would be able to see our personalities and how likely we are to choose each course.

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Lets go a little deeper...

 

Atoms and particles behave in a probabilistic ways, each of which can be based on or adapted to a particular theory..

but our mind is made up of atoms and particles..

So how can free will exist?

 

The only rational answer I can conclude is that when it comes to choices and free will, our brains and their respectful subunits function via particular methods wich are subject to chance variation.

 

I've always believed in the occurrence and development of events in the absence of any obvious design. Chance has dictated all forms of development and diversification over the course of the earths existence, and continues to do so, just in a form us humans have labelled 'free thought', that's continuing to be deciphered by us as time goes on.

 

Going off on a side note here... I find it quite difficult to place any confidence in the theory of a master plan, or even to think that our planet could be associated with some higher unknown entity. If our universe is estimated to contain anywhere from 300 trillion to 300 Sextillion stars, each with the possibility of possessing their own orbiting masses, to say that our pale blue dot, the earth, could possess even a mild significance in any 'grand scheme', simply does not appear proportionable. I understand that people here wish to keep their beliefs on freedom of thought and faith separate. However, when attempting to speculate on either matter, both appear to inevitably overlap.

 

But anyway, that's enough rambling from me.

Edited by Swoop
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Lets go a little deeper...

 

Atoms and particles behave in a probabilistic ways, each of which can be based on or adapted to a particular theory..

but our mind is made up of atoms and particles..

So how can free will exist?

 

The only rational answer I can conclude is that when it comes to choices and free will, our brains and their respectful subunits function via particular methods wich are subject to chance variation.

 

I've always believed in the occurrence and development of events in the absence of any obvious design. Chance has dictated all forms of development and diversification over the course of the earths existence, and continues to do so, just in a form us humans have labelled 'free thought', that's continuing to be deciphered by us as time goes on.

 

Going off on a side note here... I find it quite difficult to place any confidence in the theory of a master plan, or even to think that our planet could be associated with some higher unknown entity. If our universe is estimated to contain anywhere from 300 trillion to 300 Sextillion stars, each with the possibility of possessing their own orbiting masses, to say that our pale blue dot, the earth, could possess even a mild significance in any 'grand scheme', simply does not appear proportionable. I understand that people here wish to keep their beliefs on freedom of thought and faith separate. However, when attempting to speculate on either matter, both appear to inevitably overlap.

Interesting point Swoop. In your point of view, random chance variation is what free thought is. Free will would be the will to choose those variables. Which ones we take into account when choosing an action and which ones we don't. And the variation would be the change in the environment around us, which for all purposes to us is random. Am I correct in my assumption of this or not?

A master plan in terms of the biggest picture, every planet ever, is nigh impossible, but what about a master plan in terms of just the Earth? As well as that, one could argue that since no one planet in the quantity of planets is more significant than the rest, they all play a massive role in bringing about the master plan.

The thing about philosophy is that religion and your own thoughts are both part of it. Use all the religion you want to talk about the subject at hand in this topic, it's what it's made for.

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I believe in God.

 

I believe in free will but with a predetermined major path for our life, and then we have to choose how to get there or maybe not get there.

 

Kinda like Mass Effect :D - Just with a few more outcomes maybe. (Just been playing through ME1 and going on to #2 again)

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A master plan in terms of the biggest picture, every planet ever, is nigh impossible, but what about a master plan in terms of just the Earth?

 

Size and scope defeats us all. I don't think a master plan is possible. Actions and repercussions, sure, but no true plan. I think that we see these things through the lens of civilization, and tend to forget the nature state. Only because we are safeguarded (for the most part) from our most basic concern (survival) can we even start to think of a grand design.

 

 

I believe in free will but with a predetermined major path for our life, and then we have to choose how to get there or maybe not get there.

 

If it's predetermined and major, it not happening ruins the whole thing. The point of a plan is a specific outcome. With so many variables, nothing can really come to fruition.

 

I'm not trying to sound all negative and come down on people, but I just don't see the idea of a plan working out. That said, I like that there isn't a point. It frees us up to create our own.

Edited by Crispy
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I'm trying not to get too religious here, but I want to respond to this. I believe in God, but I don't believe in a grand plan, or that we are all bound by fate according to that plan. I agree that God knows everything that can happen, not everything that will happen. It makes no sense to me that he would create heaven and hell, and then pick which one we will go to before we are born. It seems like there would be no point to life then. I think that the meaning of life is that God wants to see what we will choose, and how we will grow according to our choices. But that is just my opinion.

 

Crap. I wish I had more time to reply to this right now, but I'm going to have to give a short answer. I'll try to come back tomorrow and contribute more.

 

Anyway, I studied religion and philosophy in college, so this is something I've discussed before a lot. Allow me to correct one thing there. If you are referring to the Christian God, He did not predestine people to hell. According to the Bible, the human race was created perfect and placed in paradise, called the Garden of Eden. Man was immortal and blessed with a perfect world. But the archdemon Satan corrupted man and turned paradise into the world filled with death we have today. As a result, man's nature was corrupted so that everyone is born mortal and separated from God, thus our "default" setting is Hellbound. Our 'free will' enters into this equasion in that we have the choice of whether to accept God's lifeline, the sacrificial death of Jesus, and be redeemd to God, or whether we reject his offer and stay in our default state. According to typical Christian doctrine, that's the point of free will, for man to decide whether to choose God or to ignore Him.

 

----------------------------------------

 

Not to get religious on anyone. Just answering a question. :)

 

Also, I would point out that part of the nature of "God" in the sense that he is omnipotent and omnipresent, he is also omnitemporal. He exists outside of time because he exists outside of space. And by necessity as time and space are intimately linked, if one exists outsides the bonds of one he exists outside the bonds of the other. So God, being outside space-time can see the entirety of history at once. In a sense, it's like Doctor Who being able to travel to any point in history, past or future, but with God he sees it all simultaneously. So it wouldn't be so much that he "predicts" the future, as He sees it happen and knows precicely what people will choose to do and what will happen.

 

Anyway, I have to go. Perhaps I can contribute more tomorrow. Stay classy everypony. :)

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Crap. I wish I had more time to reply to this right now, but I'm going to have to give a short answer. I'll try to come back tomorrow and contribute more.

 

Anyway, I studied religion and philosophy in college, so this is something I've discussed before a lot. Allow me to correct one thing there. If you are referring to the Christian God, He did not predestine people to hell. According to the Bible, the human race was created perfect and placed in paradise, called the Garden of Eden. Man was immortal and blessed with a perfect world. But the archdemon Satan corrupted man and turned paradise into the world filled with death we have today. As a result, man's nature was corrupted so that everyone is born mortal and separated from God, thus our "default" setting is Hellbound. Our 'free will' enters into this equasion in that we have the choice of whether to accept God's lifeline, the sacrificial death of Jesus, and be redeemd to God, or whether we reject his offer and stay in our default state. According to typical Christian doctrine, that's the point of free will, for man to decide whether to choose God or to ignore Him.

 

----------------------------------------

 

Not to get religious on anyone. Just answering a question. :)

 

Also, I would point out that part of the nature of "God" in the sense that he is omnipotent and omnipresent, he is also omnitemporal. He exists outside of time because he exists outside of space. And by necessity as time and space are intimately linked, if one exists outsides the bonds of one he exists outside the bonds of the other. So God, being outside space-time can see the entirety of history at once. In a sense, it's like Doctor Who being able to travel to any point in history, past or future, but with God he sees it all simultaneously. So it wouldn't be so much that he "predicts" the future, as He sees it happen and knows precicely what people will choose to do and what will happen.

 

Anyway, I have to go. Perhaps I can contribute more tomorrow. Stay classy everypony. :)

 

I know he's omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, I knew he was also always present in time as well, but I didn't know the word for that. In my point of view, there isn't only one future. Therefore, he doesn't see just one thing, instead, he sees an infinite amount of next seconds, and for each of those seconds, an infinite amount of other seconds. Each of those different seconds would vary from others as little as a single human's different choice. Tying free will into it, he can't tell which of those choices people are going to make, he can tell which is most likely and by how much though.

 

Personally, I don't believe in one specific religion's god. Instead, I'm an agnostic and I choose to believe in what I want to believe in. That is, a greater power that is watching over everything, but he does not control it. Instead, he watches it for entertainment.

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Like Slendermane I am a believer of the multiverse and string theory. However, within that theory there is the possibility that none of it is true yet it is all true.

 

Basically, I believe anything and everything you can think of is possible in some place at some time. However, there has to be a defense mechanism in this multiverse that prevents it's utter destruction. If even one person thinks "Everything in existence is destroyed" we'd be gone now so there must be something, whether it is a god or some sort of mechanic, that prevents existence from truly exterminating itself. Say...when someone thinks that existence (a much more fitting term for the universe/multiverse imo) will be destroyed in five minutes then perhaps it splits into multiple parts, some parts ending as "instructed" by the thought process but other parts not ending. It could split into two, or a thousand, half of them dying and half of them not but dying or almost dying in various different ways. An ultimate being destroying it all, a hero coming to save it, the hero failing or succeeding is just a few possibilities of what happened. Perhaps it was just some mega supernova of all of existence.

 

But just thinking it doesn't mean it's going to happen in your conscience existence. This goes into prayer; whether a god is answering prayers or it's just string theory kicking in, one person's prayer can bring about a miracle or it could cause someone's life to end in spite of the miracle.

 

Does a god truly exist? Yes and no. Does this god truly control and create everything? Yes and no. The theories of the multiverse make these things possible yet impossible to support both theories. Yet we have no way of proving or disproving any such theory.

 

When a person says they "feel God within them" do they truly feel him or is it just a rush of adrenaline (or other such process) that makes them feel that way because of a delusion in their own mind? Maybe it's both?

 

How about this: Why is it that no matter how many wrong things could happen in our daily lives...why doesn't it? Perhaps we live on a line with a few stray paths every few moments. Our conscious minds see what happens and that is nothing happening. We dive from a cliff and live. Why? Because we are aware of the main path. But thanks to string theory that means that in another dimension parallel to ours we just died from jumping. Was it from the impact? Was it from some rock? Perhaps there was a shark?

 

Try to wrap your head around the possibility that our minds are kept in a main path that leads us into old age when we truly die rather than an accidental death for a reason. Because of a god's will? Or because it is just the way of existence itself?

 

When anyone brings up the question: "Why do we exist?" "What is the meaning of life?" and other such questions I always give the same answer:

 

To exist and to live. Nothing more, nothing less. We are created or born for the soul purpose to live our lives, to exist rather than be non-existent.

 

Some tell me that it's no use thinking about such things as they have no real bearing on "reality" however thinking about such things brings me to peace about everything. I don't think these things merely to entertain myself, I truly believe it. There are far too many contradictions in "logic" and "religion" for there not to be some grand multi-dimensional structure to keep all of existence from imploding on itself.

 

Whoops, forgot to say how this all tied in with Free Will. LOL

 

Basically, we have free will, yet we do not. We control what happens, yet we stay on a specific path from beginning to end. We travel through our lives thinking we have free will because we travel on a specific path but we are given choices and we make a choice. The path is the lack of free will, the choices are where free will come into play. So no matter what we do we will always travel on a specific path but we make the choices that decide where on that path we walk. But we can never walk off that path. As humans, we cannot become a superhero which would be off the path. That's not a matter of free will even if we would want to choose to be a superhero.

 

Thanks to the multiverse, though, this is only half true. Sometimes it's free will entirely and we choose our paths and yet at the same time in a different dimension, we are always travelling on a written path as if we were characters in a book.

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(Quoted so he would get a notification of my response.)

 

If I'm reading this right, your belief is a mix between mine (of free will to choose options) and the multiverse and string theory. Each different option gives you a different universe.

Please tell me if I got it completely wrong.

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Well basically what I mean is that the multiverse and string theory both support and debunk the free will theory.

 

The two presented theories are very contradictory but they basically believe that anything is possible, no matter how contradictory it may seem, and that includes the making free will and a controlled destiny/fate both a viable possibility and both no more or less true than the other.

 

It's...difficult to explain. Human words cannot fully express the meaning of my own personal theories combined with other well-known theories.

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These posts are messing with my mind...I go by what I said before but I try not to think about it too much. I feel as if I control myself and make my own choices...so yes I think I have free will.

 

This is a very philosophical question LRP. So yes, these thoughts will mess with your mind if you don't take the time to read and figure out what they mean to understand them.
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