Democratic Marxism vs Democratic Fascism

[Ruckus 14]

Which one do you feel most at home with or identify with?

 

Left and Right has its roots. Left is marxist while right is fascist.

The left produced communism, the right produced fascism.

The left produced new left, the right produced the recent alt-right.

 

So which one do you like the most?

 

The new left

(The New Left was a broad political movement mainly in the 1960s and 1970s consisting of educators, agitators and others who sought to implement a broad range of reforms on issues such as civil rights, gay rights, abortion, gender roles, and drugs)

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left

 

Alt-right

(The alt-right has no formal ideology, although various sources have stated that white nationalism is fundamental.^[1][2][3] It has also been associated with white supremacism,^[4][5][6]Islamophobia,^{[7][8][9][10]}antifeminism,^[1][11]homophobia,^[12][13][14]antisemitism,^[1][2][15]ethno-nationalism,^[16]right-wing populism,^[3]nativism,^[17]traditionalism, and the neoreactionary movement.)

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right

Edited November 27, 2016 by Ruckus

[zerox 1,123]

I dislike both the far left and the far right.

[Ruckus 14]

I dislike both the far left and the far right.

I do too.

 

America isnt evil, bankers and corporates are in my view.

 

Recently on news Norwegian corporates sold stuff to ISIS, just to give proof that it can be anyone.

 

Its bankers and corrupt organization who is evil, not USA, this includes dishonest journalists too people with no standards or morals who wants to make a article for a quick buck bought with the best money can buy. To say the least, Bush did a stupid move, but he is basically the scapegoat for everything wrong. Had it not been for 9/11 i don't think he would have such a bad record as he is now, most likely a goofball somewhat maybe but not nearly as bad.

 

His mistake was that he simply answered "We are going to attack terrorists by invading foreign countries". What he should've done is simply to build up an anti terror network. Which i agree with Trump on when he says he wants to rebuild NATO for that since USSR is an old enemy of the past and we live in a new world now. Basically Bush made the wrong move and that cost many US Americans lives in a stupid war for money and greed just to fill the pockets of bankers and corporate organizations who are corrupt on so many levels. USA is a superpower, but if anything it should be the fault of the bankers and corporate interests when they fund and support terrorist organizations in foreign countries of buying interests from them.

[Blackshirt Brony 415]

As a fascist myself, I have equal disdain for SJWism and the alt-right. They are both egregiously obnoxious and incredibly difficult to take seriously. I can't wait until they go out of style finally.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Blackshirt Brony

[Twiggy 2,966]

I can't say that I care for economic collectivism in the slightest, which both Fascism and Marxism both entail.

 

However, I would take Fascism over Marxism any day. I can respect nationalism, which Marxism denies, and I'm about 10,000 times less likely to wind up starving to death in a ditch.

[Hazard Time 1,127]

I don't really understand the title of this thread.  In what ways are Marxism/Communism and Fascism democratic?

 

Aside from the authoritarian nature of each, they are quite similar in many respects.  Both societies are collectivist, dictatorial or oligarchal, and have no respect for individual rights.  To them, the individual is simply a tool in service of the state, and should an individual stand in the way of the Fatherland's interests, then that individual must be beaten down.  The only real differences in ideology are that Fascists believe that every man should be a soldier and every woman should be the mother of a soldier, whereas Communists believe in a society where everyone gives according to their ability and receives according to their need.

 

Tbh, I'm going to have to go with fascism, as well.  This isn't necessarily because I'm right-leaning, but looking at how fascism and communism have been applied, not only has the former at least functioned as a system, but the latter has failed so terribly, that no communist nation has even been able to apply the basic ideas of social justice (and keep them).

[Blackshirt Brony 415]

I don't really understand the title of this thread.  In what ways are Marxism/Communism and Fascism democratic?

 

I didn't get that either. I think what the OP meant is that most left/right wing people today are more about the very political side of things, since our western leaders are all elected (as opposed to Germany or Russia during the 1930's).

 

Aside from the authoritarian nature of each, they are quite similar in many respects.  Both societies are collectivist, dictatorial or oligarchal, and have no respect for individual rights.  To them, the individual is simply a tool in service of the state, and should an individual stand in the way of the Fatherland's interests, then that individual must be beaten down.

 

It's true that fascism discourages activities which are actively harmful to the state, but I have always found it to be especially individualistic, because the individual is valued for his/her own good work, as opposed to simply being a number or part of a "voter base."

 

The reason Starlight Glimmer's reactionary ideas failed were because she neglected individual development and expression for completely idealistic reasons.

 

 

"In rejecting democracy fascism rejects the absurd political lie of equalitarianism... the myth of indefinite progress. But if democracy be understood as meaning a regime in which the masses are not driven back to the margin of the state... then fascism has already been defined as an organized, centralized, authoritarian democracy." (From Mussolini and Giovanni's Doctrine of Fascism)

[Hazard Time 1,127]

"In rejecting democracy fascism rejects the absurd political lie of equalitarianism... the myth of indefinite progress. But if democracy be understood as meaning a regime in which the masses are not driven back to the margin of the state... then fascism has already been defined as an organized, centralized, authoritarian democracy." (From Mussolini and Giovanni's Doctrine of Fascism)

 

The problem with this system is that it assumes, as all collectivism assumes, that all individuals of a certain demographic want what is best for them as a demographic.  However, the fact is that not every white person supports the KKK, not every black person supports BLM, and not all Muslims support Sharia.  Therefore, assuming we have a nation of one people, one demographic, one ethnicity, one culture, even then, the identity of the individual would cause indecision and debate.

 

I will agree with you that the best form of government in times of strife is a benevolent dictatorship, but the ultimate problem with it is that it does not stay benevolent for long.  Let's look at the Soviet Union, for instance: Before Lenin's death, he had pushed for major strides towards egalitarianism and social justice, commissioning artists to paint androgynous women in men's clothing and participating in areas of employment that they would never have been seen before.  He also encouraged Muslim women living in Soviet-occupied Central Asia to stop wearing burkas and take active roles in their communities.  When Lenin died and was replaced by Stalin, however, this was completely rolled back and gender roles are STILL a hot social issue in the region to this day.

 

Returning to the point I was trying to make, how can you be sure that the benevolent dictator who represents the interests of his nation and his people won't be replaced by someone who represents merely their own interests?  What would happen if the party became corrupt and detached from its base?  As far as I know, fascism doesn't have any sort of checks and simply relies on the executive office to know best.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Hazard Time

[AaronMk 280]

There is one answer and one answer only.

 

Give me direct voice, or give me death.

 

[idunnomaybe 344]

I don't think you really get what the Alt-Right is... 

its a boogy man invented by the far left and SJWs do you think that a Man 20 years of experience as an executive should be removed and replaced with a Female with 2 years experience simply because "gender equality"? you don't (at least i hope you don't) so that makes you Alt-Right 

Alt-Right basically means not sharing Feminist,SJW or other far left values the far left have a skewed view of the world they believe themselves to be "centralist" or the "Average joe" (they're not they're far left) so to them by default if you don't agree with them you're a Nazi  

"The alt-right has no formal ideology, although various sources have stated that white nationalism is fundamental.^[1][2][3] It has also been associated with white supremacism,<sup>[4][5]"

that kind of points out what i mean that line its self is basically trying to link average people to Nazism

Also you can't really listen to Wikipedia it was taken over by the far left a long time ago that's why Feminists like Anita Sarkeesian don't have a Criticism section and are painted in positive only light where as people like Milo are painted only in a poor light and the wording is hostile</sup>  
  

Edited November 28, 2016 by idunnomaybe

[Hazard Time 1,127]

Placed everything under a spoiler since it was off-topic

 

 

 

I don't think you really get what the Alt-Right is... 

 

its a boogy man invented by the far left and SJWs do you think that a Man 20 years of experience as an executive should be removed and replaced with a Female with 2 years experience simply because "gender equality"? you don't (at least i hope you don't) so that makes you Alt-Right 

 

Alt-Right basically means not sharing Feminist,SJW or other far left values the far left have a skewed view of the world they believe themselves to be "centralist" or the "Average joe" (they're not they're far left) so to them by default if you don't agree with them you're a Nazi  

 

"The alt-right has no formal ideology, although various sources have stated that white nationalism is fundamental.^{%5B1%5D%5B2%5D%5B3%5D} It has also been associated with white supremacism,^{%5B4%5D%5B5%5D"}

 

that kind of points out what i mean that line its self is basically trying to link average people to Nazism

 

Also you can't really listen to Wikipedia it was taken over by the far left a long time ago that's why Feminists like Anita Sarkeesian don't have a Criticism section and are painted in positive only light where as people like Milo are painted only in a poor light and the wording is hostile  

 

The Alt-Right DOES exist, though it is blow way out of proportion.  You're also right in saying that there is no formal definition of what an Alt-Rightist is.  Instead of white-nationalism, the one common feature that I can name is that they all have negative opinions of the social justice movement and third-wave feminism, so it is more to say that the Alt-Right exists as a response to these Leftist ideologies.  Armored Skeptic explained it best:

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Hazard Time

[idunnomaybe 344]

The Alt-Right DOES exist, though it is blow way out of proportion.  You're also right in saying that there is no formal definition of what an Alt-Rightist is.  Instead of white-nationalism, the one common feature that I can name is that they all have negative opinions of the social justice movement and third-wave feminism, so it is more to say that the Alt-Right exists as a response to these Leftist ideologies.  Armored Skeptic explained it best:

 

yeah i'll give you that one however at the same time Atheism in America is weird 

 

everywhere else in the world its just not believing in god in America it seems to be some kind of political ideology 

Edited November 28, 2016 by idunnomaybe

[Zyrael 1,471]

what's with all the pro-fascist rhetoric lately? is there a growing pony-loving neo-nazi movement brewing that i've not heard about?

[AaronMk 280]

what's with all the pro-fascist rhetoric lately? is there a growing pony-loving neo-nazi movement brewing that i've not heard about?

 

We need to find Trotsky. Go on a great adventure into the heart of Mexico. We must procure an ouija board to commune with the martyrs from CNT/FAI. We will go on a pilgrimage to learn the ways of the Peshmerga samurai.

[Twiggy 2,966]

what's with all the pro-fascist rhetoric lately? is there a growing pony-loving neo-nazi movement brewing that i've not heard about?

Politics is a pendulum, and social justice was the apoapsis of the left. The pendulum is now swinging back towards the right, and with that comes a shift in the overton window. Just as college campuses have communist and socialist meetings and groups now, expect fascist meetings and groups to soon be a thing.

 

The left have been using identity politics for a very long time now, many exclusively. And now the right is starting to embrace identity politics in reaction.

 

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Twiggy