Dragons Versus Griffons

[Ganondox 899]

Dragons and griffons stand out as being the two races that currently have maladjusted societies. Both races are to some degree social, but have degrees of aggression in their culture that interfere with the develop of friendships. This contrasts with the yaks who despite appearing aggressive appear to have normal relations internally, and the changelings who proved to be quite nice once freed from their need to steal love. However, the nature of dragon aggression and griffon aggression is quite different. 

Despite their claims to the contrary, dragons appear to be fundamentally social creatures. While many are solitary, others form groups of friends, like Garble. While they would never admit it, these are real friendships, as demonstrated with what Smolder said to Gallus in school days (though maybe it's just semantics and dragons think friendship is only how ponies do it). Draconic aggression is fundamentally a social behavior, one that is done to bond rather than actually hurt each other, so technically it's not actually aggression, it's just acting tough like many of the things dragons do. Dragon compete because they are admire each other's strength, and they admire tales of cunning as well brute force. Dragons parents have also proven to be loving, they just have a very odd way about showing it. The problem with dragon society though is that even though they due form friendships, their relationships are often toxic due to displays of aggression being their foundation. The best example of this is with Garble and his friends in Dragon Quest, but Ember and Smolder have shown some problems with this approach as well. The main thing I could see helping the dragons is having them learn that someone can be both tough AND kind, though learning that kindness can be a strength in itself might be a bit beyond them at this point in time. Otherwise they seem to be okay, their culture is  vastly different from pony culture, but it's just rough, not necessarily bad. 

While griffon aggression is more subtle than draconic aggression, it appears to be truly anti-social. Unlike dragons, prior to pony intervention griffons didn't have real friends, they just had acquaintances. All their relationships were based on contract alone, and it resulted in a barely functioning society. They may have love for family members, but even that appears to be debatable. I don't think it's hard to belief that maybe griffons just mate for pleasure and then abandon their young, especially considering that the one example of a griffon family we were shown turned out to actually be just friends and Gallus didn't even have that. Their society appears structurally closer to pony society than dragon society does, but it's griffon society that is fundamentally broken. The one ray of hope for the griffons is that this doesn't appear to be their nature, it's just the society they became trapped in, and they strive for something better. They still long for the glory days when they were united, and they maintain traditions like the Blue Moon Festival in an attempt to become nicer. It's hard though because such a society rewards antisocial behavior, but if they try really hard they might be able to move to a more desirable state of equilibrium. Griffon society is one of the bleakest we've seen in the show, and all the worse societies we've seen be transformed into something better, while we've only seen the faintest glimmer that Griffon society is improving. Still, that faint glimmer is one of the most powerful things we've seen in the show. 

So that's my analysis of the difference between the two societies, does anyone have their own? 

[SharpWit 2,855]

Interesting thing to note is that both are considered to be greedy but as dragons live simpler lives they're seen as living with plenty while the griffons seemingly have very little. I think friendship is more of a social issue for the dragons but an economic one for the griffons. You can't afford friendship if it means risking what little you have left to be stolen from right under your nose, likely by someone just as desperate as you.

[DonMaguz 1,023]

Dragons seem to live in a society in which pride and physical power are what give status to someone, dominance is crucial at every social rank to keep the pyramid's structure strong. To climb the pyramid they need to risk themselves physically, but the perks of success are at clear sight and that drives them to try and be better.

Griffons seem to live in a society in which no one is eager to risk whatever little they have to achieve success. They keep others away so they won't lose, without knowing that they would actually gain much more in the process if they just tried to trust each other.

[Ganondox 899]

6 hours ago, SharpWit said:

Interesting thing to note is that both are considered to be greedy but as dragons live simpler lives they're seen as living with plenty while the griffons seemingly have very little. I think friendship is more of a social issue for the dragons but an economic one for the griffons. You can't afford friendship if it means risking what little you have left to be stolen from right under your nose, likely by someone just as desperate as you.

The difference I see between draconic and griffin greed is that dragons just like to hoard stuff, while griffins are selfish. Dragons just keep whatever they find, they don’t steal from each other like griffons do. 

[Truffles 2,033]

15 hours ago, Ganondox said:

So that's my analysis of the difference between the two societies, does anyone have their own?

That pretty much fits exactly how I feel about their two cultures as well.

I would add that intelligence is frowned upon in dragon society, as seen by Torch's test for the Gauntlet. Things may change now that Ember is their leader, though whether such change can be affected before the series ends is a question mark.

1 hour ago, Ganondox said:

Dragons just keep whatever they find, they don’t steal from each other like griffons do.

I am still trying to categorize what Scales did - was that an act of aggression that rightfully allowed her to take control or did she steal the Blood Scepter? She didn't really have to fight to take it - she just took it at an opportune time like a griffon would.

Then there's the new guy:

Spoiler

Sludge is smart and stealing stuff by conning others is apparently his preferred method of getting stuff. It may be that because of both those reasons, he was kicked out of the dragon lands and is why he wanders around the world, looking for new easy marks.

 

[Ganondox 899]

4 hours ago, Truffles said:

That pretty much fits exactly how I feel about their two cultures as well.

I would add that intelligence is frowned upon in dragon society, as seen by Torch's test for the Gauntlet. Things may change now that Ember is their leader, though whether such change can be affected before the series ends is a question mark.

I am still trying to categorize what Scales did - was that an act of aggression that rightfully allowed her to take control or did she steal the Blood Scepter? She didn't really have to fight to take it - she just took it at an opportune time like a griffon would.

Then there's the new guy:

  Reveal hidden contents

Sludge is smart and stealing stuff by conning others is apparently his preferred method of getting stuff. It may be that because of both those reasons, he was kicked out of the dragon lands and is why he wanders around the world, looking for new easy marks.

 

While at least Torch prefers brute strength to cunning, the fact that Scale's story apparently won means that cunning has become acceptable in dragon society as the show currently stands out. It also doesn't look like intelligence was ever actually frowned upon, it just wasn't considered to be an important trait in a leader. 

Scales is just a story, but I'd interpret it as an example of competition, not theft. She ousted the weaker dragon lord and thus took her rightful place at the top of the hierarchy. 

Spoiler

Sludge very well might have broken some dragon taboo, he's dishonorable and while dragons are tough we've seen that they are honorable. 

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Ganondox

[Truffles 2,033]

6 hours ago, Ganondox said:

While at least Torch prefers brute strength to cunning, the fact that Scale's story apparently won means that cunning has become acceptable in dragon society as the show currently stands out.

I had forgotten that story was the winning entry. It would seem Ember's influence could be having more of an effect than I thought. Though the reasons for it winning probably matter more: Did it win because of Scale's cunning, or did it win because there's discontent with the current leadership? (And that depends on whether it was some random dragon or Ember herself who submitted that story.)

[Van123 29]

I've seen dragons that throw fire but not a griffon because I've not seen a griffon that throws fire, but I saw a School Daze - Part 1 episode, a griffon named Gallus saying he's throws fire, that's a mistake in MLP. in mythology the griffons don't throws fire.