Toy Story Talk

[Literatel 144]

If you have anything to say about Toy Story, look no further! In this thread, feel free to post fan theories, general theories about the Toy Story universe, your thoughts on the characters, your thoughts on the 3 (soon to be 4) films themselves, stuff like that.

BONUS QUESTION: How would you rank the Toy Story movies?

2ND BONUS QUESTION: WHO IS YOUR FAVORITE TOY STORY CHARACTER?

 

And here comes a piece from me. :3

 

I've noticed a mistake in one of Toy Story 4's messages. Said message behind the story (and in toys in general in the Toy Story universe) is that anything can be a toy, so long as a kid recognizes it as a toy, and plays with it. However, this argument falls completely flat when you consider a particular scene in Toy Story 2... In the opening act (minus the intro at the beginning) of the movie, the toys are frantically searching for Woody's hat. In one scene, Hamm is communicating with window blinds to a garden gnome outside. A garden gnome. How is it alive? Did a kid come along and, for some reason, decide to play with it? If so, when? If it was relatively soon before the movie began, it should still be questioning if it is a toy or not; in fact, like Forky, it should be questioning what it is on a bigger scale. Not only that, but how would it be in the mental state to help the toys find Woody's hat, whom it must know is a toy? And Hamm seems to know of its existence (since he lives by the shelf), so obviously it's been there for at least a little while. But maybe the theoretical kid played with it a while ago? If so, why isn't the gnome suffering from depression like Wheezy was when he was almost forgotten on the shelf?

I bet you this is one of those Monsters Inc/Monsters University-type inconsistencies.

I think I solved the problem here. In order for an object to come to life, a child has to believe it is a toy, and it must play with it as a toy at least once. However, to keep said toy (or "toy") "awake", other toys must interact with it. Jessie was under her owner's bed for years and never moved a muscle, after falling into a deep depression. Wheeze didn't move either, since he was forgotten, and both toys did not interact with any other toys. So, in that sense, I think a traditional toy can remain "alive", but in order for it to be animate, it must at least be interacting with other toys. But if it is not a toy and doesn't believe itself to be one, it can be alive whenever it chooses, so long as other toys are interacting with it.

Also, to add onto what I said before, Jessie, Bullseye, and Stinky Pete were locked together in boxes for an extended period, and since they were all close by each other/with each other, they did not go inanimate since they had each other... as friends.

In summary, it is my theory that anything that could be considered to be a toy to a kid could come to life, so long as it was seen as a toy by said kid and was played by said kid at least once. If the toy is a traditional toy/was strongly played with as a toy, and the owner neglects them for one reason or another, they become depressed and stop moving until they are noticed again. However, if another toy (a friend) is around them, they can remain animate. However, if the object was played with, is now alive, but is content that it is not a toy, it can remain animate so long as other toys (traditional or not) are around it to interact with it.

EDIT: I realized a mistake here. I revised my theory and I realized that the Buzz's in Toy Story 2 (or at least 1) was able to come to life despite being played with. Thus, anything can come to life so long as imagination was put into them, whether by a manufacturer or a kid. Also, several other toys slightly "debunk" (or add onto) my theory above.

Also, my favorite character in the Toy Story series is Jessie.  And, please don't crucify me, but in my eyes, the 2nd one was the best.

Gosh that took a while. 

 

I can't wait to see your comments!

Edited November 24, 2018 by Literatel

[Odyssey 5,717]

@Literatel Your topic focuses on media discussion, so I have moved it to the appropriate subforum.

[Literatel 144]

48 minutes ago, Odyssey said:

@Literatel Your topic focuses on media discussion, so I have moved it to the appropriate subforum.

Thank you.

[Here No Longer 5,277]

@Literatel You're definitely right about not everything being a toy, but I don't think that's actually what they're getting at. I think what they're getting at with Forky is just the opposite, that not everything that a child plays with is necessarily a toy. I've actually heard that a central theme of the movie is going to be something of the sort of an existential crisis going on in Forky's mind because of the fact he isn't a toy, and he realizes that.

 

Well I actually agree with a fairly dark theory I've seen floating around: Woody will leave everyone else in this movie. Whether it be actual death (which is what I've been hearing), or just saying his goodbyes to them for whatever reason, he will abandon them towards the end of the movie. The evidence is there to back it up, well at the least evidence based on assumptions about a variety of things we've seen and heard about the movie:

• Tom Hanks (the voice for Woody, of course) hinting that this movie will have more of a sad ending than the other three. If you read his reaction, it would be hard to really say that he isn't talking about something big, something with a huge emotional impact... Specifically involving WOODY and nobody else.
• The movie poster of Woody specifically. His position and the coloration of the poster, in particular. The color scheme of the poster has a lack of color and the poster shows Woody tipping his hat and looking up with a sort of sad look on his face.  

 

• Woody is supposedly going on a journey to find Bo Peep, and considering she hasn't been around in a long time, it can be implied she could be dead herself or be a perilous journey and a half away. Toy Story is one of the few Pixar franchises that has went without any sort of death, which is interesting to note because death of various kinds has been a key theme of the franchise from the very beginning of the franchise all the way back in 1995.
• The plot synopsis, specifically this line of it: "But just like in life, every ending is a new beginning." The first thing is that he had to specifically bring up life. Which may not be a strong point, but it's something to bring up. The other thing is the part about every ending being a new beginning. Sure that COULD allude to the ending of Toy Story 3, but the existence of shorts that have taken place since Toy Story 3 kind of make that a hard sell.
• It fits WAY too well. As I previously stated the franchise is literally all about death. The death of innocence, the death of childhood, the death of love, the death of belonging. Yes it is a family movie, but that didn't stop the writers behind Toy Story 3 from almost killing off EVERYONE towards the end! That didn't stop Pixar from releasing Coco, a movie ALL ABOUT DEATH in a pretty literal sense of the word! So what's exactly keeping them from doing this?

I personally support the death theory more than him just leaving, considering how emotionally impactful it would be and how it would resonate with what seem to be the core themes of the movie. Also considering how emotional his relationship with Bo Peep was in the earlier movies I find it hard to believe that he WOULDN'T die for her. Not even to mention that these points are more indicative of a death than anything else.

 

As for ranking I say it's 1>3>2, but they are all among the best of Pixar, and that's saying something for a studio that prides itself on quality, and my favorite character... I'm not really sure. It's really a hard choice because each and every character has their own charm about them. But I would probably say Woody if I had to pick one.

[Literatel 144]

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The movie poster of Woody specifically. His position and the coloration of the poster, in particular. The color scheme of the poster has a lack of color and the poster shows Woody tipping his hat and looking up with a sort of sad look on his face

Actually, if you were to look at the bottom of this page, three similar posters have also been released. But as for Woody leaving the gang, I can see that; perhaps he decides that he wants to stay with Bo Peep. There have also been rumors that Buzz dies in this movie.

However, 3/4 of the script involving the Bo Peep angle was scrapped. The current plot is that Woody, Buzz, Forky (and others?) go on a journey, and they learn that the world is bigger than they ever imagined. Along the way, they "meet an old friend", which has to be Bo Peep, since it is confirmed that she will be in this movie.

As for your first statement about Forky, I already knew that for a while. I was just looking through some YouTube comments on the actual movie trailer, and many of them were questioning the meaning behind a toy. 

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Toy Story is one of the few Pixar franchises that has went without any sort of death, which is interesting to note because death of various kinds has been a key theme of the franchise from the very beginning of the franchise all the way back in 1995.

Lol. Tell me about it. Did you hear what the original script for Toy Story was?  It would almost deserve an 18+ rating.

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The plot synopsis, specifically this line of it: "But just like in life, every ending is a new beginning." The first thing is that he had to specifically bring up life. Which may not be a strong point, but it's something to bring up. The other thing is the part about every ending being a new beginning. Sure that COULD allude to the ending of Toy Story 3, but the existence of shorts that have taken place since Toy Story 3 kind of make that a hard sell

We also have to realize that people our age are not the demographic that Pixar is selling to; they are gearing Toy Story 4 towards the younger generation. If there is indeed going to be a Toy Story 5 (I bet money that there will be at some point a decade or so from now), I have two predictions:

1. Forky dies, or leaves the group. Why would they make Woody leave the group or get killed off and ruin a potential opportunity for a 5th Toy Story?

2. Toy Story 5 (if it is ever released) will focus on Forky and new characters, which are geared towards the newest generation.

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It fits WAY too well. As I previously stated the franchise is literally all about death. The death of innocence, the death of childhood, the death of love, the death of belonging. Yes it is a family movie, but that didn't stop the writers behind Toy Story 3 from almost killing off EVERYONE towards the end! That didn't stop Pixar from releasing Coco, a movie ALL ABOUT DEATH in a pretty literal sense of the word! So what's exactly keeping them from doing this?

And featuring the on-screen death of a character in a movie geared towards the whole family? I'm sorry, but it's going to be hard to sell me that idea in this day and age; such a move would not only stir up a huge negative reaction from the original fanbase, but the parents who took their children to see this movie would be (rightfully) concerned that the death of a character such as Woody would traumatize them. Woody could otherwise leave the gang, but if that is the case... why? I get it: Bo Peep is made of porcelain, and thus she is very fragile, but why couldn't she still make the journey home with the rest of the toys? While both of these predictions make the most sense, they also don't in my opinion. I guess we'll have to wait and see. *Shrugs* 

As for myself, I rate Toy Story as the best, Toy Story 3 as the second best, and Toy Story 3 as the weakest of the three. Toy Story 2 lacked a sense of urgency that the original and the third movie did, and the movie (in my eyes), at the end, was saying, "A sequel is needed". However, in terms of rewatchability, I put Toy Story 2 as my favorite, Toy Story 3 as my third favorite, and Toy Story as my least favorite (but only by a tiny bit).

Edited November 25, 2018 by Literatel

[Here No Longer 5,277]

5 minutes ago, Literatel said:

Actually, if you were to look at the bottom of this page, three similar posters have also been released. But as for Woody leaving the gang, I can see that; perhaps he decides that he wants to stay with Bo Peep. There have also been rumors that Buzz dies in this movie.

However, 3/4 of the script involving the Bo Peep angle was scrapped. The current plot is that Woody, Buzz, Forky (and others?) go on a journey, and they learn that the world is bigger than they ever imagined. Along the way, they "meet an old friend", which has to be Bo Peep, since it is confirmed that she will be in this movie.

 

Lol. Tell me about it. Did you hear what the original script for Toy Story was?  It would almost deserve an 18+ rating.

We also have to realize that people our age are not the demographic that Pixar is selling to; they are gearing Toy Story 4 towards the younger generation. If there is indeed going to be a Toy Story 5 (I bet money that there will be at some point a decade or so from now), I have two predictions:

1. Forky dies, or leaves the group. Why would they make Woody leave the group or get killed off and ruin a potential opportunity for a 5th Toy Story?

2. Toy Story 5 (if it is ever released) will focus on Forky and new characters, which are geared towards the newest generation.

Because featuring the on-screen death of a character in a movie geared towards the whole family? I'm sorry, but it's going to be hard to sell me that idea in this day and age;

such a move would not only stir up a huge negative reaction from the original fanbase,

but the parents who took their children to see this movie would be (rightfully) concerned that the death of a character such as Woody would traumatize them.

Woody could otherwise leave the gang, but if that is the case... why? I get it: Bo Peep is made of porcelain, and thus she is very fragile, but why couldn't she still make the journey home with the rest of the toys? While both of these predictions make the most sense, they also don't in my opinion. I guess we'll have to wait and see. *Shrugs* 

 

I've heard the Buzz will die rumors and I just don't think they amount to as much. He doesn't have anything to die for like Woody does. The death wouldn't have the impact because it would feel almost random. Sure, there is Jessie, but Jessie is mentioned literally nowhere in the plot synopsis. 

I wouldn't jump the gun, necessarily. There are still other possibilities as to who this "friend" could be. For all we know they could be talking about Barbie, since she's supposed to make an appearance as well. This isn't to mention that Tim Allen stated that Keanu Reeves is actually playing a character in the fourth movie. Also, I haven't seen a lot

The one where Woody was supposed to be evil and literally tried to kill Buzz more than once? Yeah, kind of lucky they scrapped that to be honest. Sounds interesting on paper, but it seemed like it would be an absurdly bad premise for Toy Story as a franchise.

These movies actually aren't geared towards a specific generation, nor have they ever been. Pixar movies are generally designed as movies for all ages. 

1. That would have literally zero impact on the overall story, and it wouldn't be any cause for Tom Hanks to get so emotional. Also, that wouldn't ruin the opportunity for a 5th Toy Story at all. Woody would just no longer lead the group, and they'd be heavily burdened by the loss of him. If anything, it would actually strengthen future movies by giving them a highly charged subplot that could have implications on the future actions of certain characters. 

2. As previously stated, Pixar movies aren't necessarily geared towards a generation of people. They never have been. Pixar movies have always been geared towards being a family experience that everyone can enjoy regardless of age, and they've definitely gotten away with some grim stuff before.

A character death doesn't necessarily have to happen on-screen...? Coral (Nemo's mother) died in the original Finding Nemo in such a way...

I don't see how... Characters die all the time in films and nobody flips their s*** over it. Sure Woody is sort of a main character in the series, but yet again to a degree so was Mufasa and the impact of the death on Simba had a hugely positive impact on the movie as a whole.

It's been shown in children's media plenty of times before, and I've heard lots of crickets on the subject.

I think that Woody leaving would be kind of weak. It would lack a lot of the potential impact a death would have (whether it be on or off-screen), and it would be a bit out of character. We know that Woody as a character is absurdly loyal to the rest of the toys. He shows this quite a lot throughout the events of Toy Story 3. Even with how much he liked Bo-Peep, I think he would still put everyone else before just Bo Peep alone. 

[Literatel 144]

Not to mention that Jessie isn't even seen or mentioned in the second trailer. I would assume she will tag along though, to prevent comments about male-only characters (sexism), and because she and Buzz have a thing, so...  All I do know is that Mr. Potato Head and Slinky won't be around for long in the film (maybe 5 minutes of dialogue each?), since both original voice actors are dead; this brings me to believe that Woody, Buzz, Forky, and most likely Jessie will be the main characters in this story.

Plus, Buzz's death was teased in Toy Story 3 when he was crushed by a TV, but the entire audience knew that he was alright.

True, true. I was thinking it could be Sarge or Wheezy as well, but both voice actors for them are now deceased, so...

You forgot the part about Slinky being Woody's pet/slave who Woody frequently abused (and Slinky turned on his former master at the end). Yeah... Pixar can be very dark sometimes.  Fun fact: Lotzo was directly inspired by the original character for Woody.

True, true. But I feel they are going to be gearing more towards the younger audiences and a bit less towards nostalgia in this movie.

1. Very true. And you are right about that. In fact, if I were writing the movies, in the 5th Toy Story, Jessie would take charge of the group. The question is... How does Woody die?

2. Fair point. For example, the incinerator scene in Toy Story 3 was VERY heavily criticized.

But that movie was released years ago. I think we can both agree that today's world is a little more... sensitive. Just saying. Besides, Coral was just Marlin's partner; Woody is the lead character in (arguably) one of the great series of movies of all-time. On a side-note, there have also been arguments that the scene were Coral goes to save her offspring is sexist; people stated that females are not bound down by the chains of needing to raise offspring anymore, which I agree with.

Very true, but how long as Mufasa around? A part of the first movie. Woody? 3 (soon to be 4) movies. I'm not saying his death is impossible, I'm just saying that it is fairly unlikely in my opinion. Plus, Tom Hanks said he was extremely emotional towards the end of the script... Surely Pixar wouldn't show Woody's last dying words? But then again, it could explore the idea of what happens when a toy dies. But I do think such a scene would be too traumatizing towards children.

I completely agree with you, which is why I think people are so divided, which is brilliant. Also, Bo-Peep's death wouldn't have that much of an emotional impact on Woody, and I have a feeling that Woody wouldn't exactly be traumatized by her death. The voice actor who plays Bo Peep (I forgot her name) also recently confirmed that although 3/4's of the script was rewritten, she will be voicing a character in the film, Bo Peep or otherwise.

EDIT: However, it would make sense for Woody to pass on, since Andy's time is also over. A new generation has been born and has been introduced to Toy Story, and starting a "second-parter" with Jessie as the lead role could make sense. But why not Buzz? Well, in the relationship between Buzz and Jessie, Jessie is the more dominant one, so...

Edited November 25, 2018 by Literatel

[Cash In 22,524]

I have the first two films on VHS and I saw the third one in Cinemas when it released. I really enjoyed all three films and am really looking forward to the next one. I can't really rank them, as it's been years since I last watched them and I feel that it wouldn't be fair to do so using fuzzy memories. My favourite character would either be Buzz Lightyear or Jessie.

[Rainbow Dash 1,472]

Until I was about 8, I dressed up as Woody. I went to school as Woody. I went to the store, to church, and even to the doctor's offices as Woody. TO THIS DAY, I have a Woody ensemble. That movie was like a way of life to me when it came out. I memorized every one of Woody's lines from the movie as well as acted his parts out. I used to have an old home movie of my Grandma videotaping me. But alas, camcorders are a dead technology like CD Players.

Im kinda hesitant about a 4th installment. Me and my friends all have this rule of thumb that after the third movie of a series. Then again, we love all the Nightmare on Elm St. and Friday the 13th movies.
If I cant drag a friend to see the movie with me, then i'll just wait for it on Blueray....or wait until theres no one at the movies.

[FirePuppy 735]

We didn't see Bo Peep in that teaser trailer, but Annie Potts still said she's confirmed in TS4. I'm pretty confident Bo Peep will appear in the next trailer, which won't appear on YouTube until about Valentine's Day 2019.

[Literatel 144]

EDIT: I have a point to make... In Toy Story That Time Forgot, the boy character had not once played with any of his Battlesaurs, and yet they had already come to life. They believed that they were Battlesaurs and not toys, but nonetheless, they were alive. However, when Buzz Lightyear was introduced in the first movie, for the longest time he believed he was Buzz Lightyear and not a toy. Did Pixar break canon here? O.o

 

EDIT: Buzz was alive before he was played with, or at least the moment he got out of the box. The latter part makes sense, since the many, many Buzz Lightyears in Al's Toy Barn aren't alive. Therefore, it must also be the action of a kid unboxing a toy and believing it to be a toy that makes it come to life.

 

But what about Stinky Pete? He was mint in the box, at least until the events of Toy Story 2, and thus had never been played with/unboxed. This either means that canon is broken, or he wasn't mint in the box; he HAD been opened at one point. But he did mention that he was conscious during the time he was "sitting on a dime store shelf, watching every other toy be sold". And he could not have been created in the box. Therefore, either before he was on the shelf, he was unboxed and played with by a child, or the imagination of the person who made him was enough to allow him to come to life. (But the latter cannot be true, as evidenced by the many, many Buzz Lightyear action figures featured in Al's toy barn.) Any thoughts anyone?

Edited December 3, 2018 by Literatel