Scoring Each Season of Friendship is Magic (Season 5)

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,596]

You know the drill by now...

Edited February 18, 2019 by TheAnimationFanatic

[Megas 27,761]

Easily the show in it's top form. Brought some of those massive stepping stones for a lot of characters and some of the riskier storytelling in the entire show. Even absolute lows like Princess Spike, What about Discord and a weak finale can't drag down arguably one of the best seasons with classics like Amending Fences, The Cutie Map and Rarity Investigates, and that's not even mentioning Crusaders of the Lost Mark which is on a league of its own

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,596]

Just now, This Whomps said:

Easily the show in it's top form. Brought some of those massive stepping stones for a lot of characters and some of the riskier storytelling in the entire show. Even absolute lows like Princess Spike, What about Discord and a weak finale can't drag down arguably one of the best seasons with classics like Amending Fences, The Cutie Map and Rarity Investigates, and that's not even mentioning Crusaders of the Lost Mark which is on a league of its own

I actually quite liked "The Cutie Re-Mark", but other than that, I agree. Season 5 is nearly as good as Season 4. It continues the trend of taking the show in a much more mature direction while still retaining the humor and charm. It's also probably the most emotional season of the series. 

[Them's Seeing Ponies 282]

S5 is one of the show's more divisive seasons to me. Whilst the best episodes of the season are, in all honesty, some of the show's greatest achievements (the psychologically disturbing and uniquely maudlin "Cutie Map", the psychedelic complexity of "Bloom and Gloom" (still probably one of Haber's greatest achievements), the unapologetically goofy absurdity of "Slice of Life", the heart evident in "Amending Fences", the extremely entertaining "Rarity Investigates!" and the cinematic "Lost Mark") and remain mostly unsurpassed in terms of sheer grandiosity since, the lows are also some of FiM's absolute nadirs ("Tanks for the Memories" presents Dash as a karma Houdini, "Princess Spike" is far too simplistic and contrived for the series' own good and "What About Discord?" is a textbook example of wrongheaded narrative experimentation) and a number of the episodes feel overblown at times - I like both "Canterlot Boutique" and "The Mane Attraction" a fair amount, but both treat their relatively simple stories with a grandiosity and finality which I find a little disproportionate, whilst a handful of others such as "Magic Sheep" strain against the show's limits to the extent of generating an atmosphere of empty spectacle. That being said, I admire the season for heading into much darker and more cinematic territory than debatably any season has endeavoured into since, and the sense of progression from the M6 of S1 can be felt here debatably more than ever (even if the M6 tend to end up being thrown into blander mentor roles at times and much of the comedy of previous seasons winds up sacrificed in the process save for episodes such as "Party Pooped"), which counts for something significant. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Them's Seeing Ponies

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,596]

"Tanks For The Memories" = Nadir. Does not compute.

[Them's Seeing Ponies 282]

I mostly dislike "Tanks" for the way it handles its own themes. The story is treated in a surprisingly serious manner, and this tone (and Dash's actions in the episode) would work if the plot featured Tank being released, or some form of event that actually separates Dash and Tank for a longer period or in a more final way. As it stands, the episode attempts to lean towards a grief allegory, but when applied to Tank simply hibernating, it feels more disproportionate than intended and Dash's behaviour comes off as more irrational than usual as a result. I probably overreacted when I called it a 'nadir', but I still believe it's deeply flawed. 

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,596]

Most would disagree. But, I get it. I personally like it, but don't love it. 

 

[CypherHoof 26,483]

10 minutes ago, Them's Seeing Ponies said:

I mostly dislike "Tanks" for the way it handles its own themes. The story is treated in a surprisingly serious manner, and this tone (and Dash's actions in the episode) would work if the plot featured Tank being released, or some form of event that actually separates Dash and Tank for a longer period or in a more final way. As it stands, the episode attempts to lean towards a grief allegory, but when applied to Tank simply hibernating, it feels more disproportionate than intended and Dash's behaviour comes off as more irrational than usual as a result. I probably overreacted when I called it a 'nadir', but I still believe it's deeply flawed. 

I think it pushes the boundaries - in a show where we are still to find out what really happened to AJ's parents, it addresses loss, denial, and acceptance against a surrogate target (Tank's absence due to hibernation) where it is made clear the separation is only temporary and thus is less traumatic for the younger viewers.  In best pet we are shown Tank's loyalty and devotion to Dashie, despite only having just met each other, and here we also see the mirror, as Dashie is responding in kind. 

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,596]

1 minute ago, CypherHoof said:

I think it pushes the boundaries - in a show where we are still to find out what really happened to AJ's parents, it addresses loss, denial, and acceptance against a surrogate target (Tank's absence due to hibernation) where it is made clear the separation is only temporary and thus is less traumatic for the younger viewers.  In best pet we are shown Tank's loyalty and devotion to Dashie, despite only having just met each other, and here we also see the mirror, as Dashie is responding in kind. 

This is my interpretation of what they were going for.

[Them's Seeing Ponies 282]

@CypherHoof That's actually an incredibly interesting way of viewing the episode. I still believe the narrative handles those themes clumsily, but it's easily comprehendible that the episode would have proven more effective to me were the tone not as serious as it is (one could contest an episode chronicling the relationship between the two deserves a more heartfelt tone, but I don't think Dash's extreme actions in the episode were the most in-character/effective way of showing her attachment towards Tank). Thank you for the insightful perspective though - these replies are the reason I gravitate towards threads such as these. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Them's Seeing Ponies

[CypherHoof 26,483]

Just now, Them's Seeing Ponies said:

@CypherHoof That's actually an incredibly interesting way of viewing the episode. I still believe the narrative handles those themes clumsily, but it's easily comprehendible that the episode would have proven more effective to me were the tone not as serious as it is (one could contest an episode chronicling the relationship between the two deserves a more heartfelt tone, but I don't think Dash's extreme actions in the episode were the most in-character/effective way of showing her attachment towards Tank). Thank you for the insightful perspective though. 

I think a more measured response would be out of character for Dashie though - she always hits EVERYTHING at 120% of rated power....

[Thrond 3,263]

I'm not a fan of this season... the episodes I like are among the best in the show, but there's just not that many of them, and a lot of the episodes which are supposed to be emotional highlights fall flat for me. In particular, I actively dislike fan-favourite episodes like "Tanks for the Memories" and "Amending Fences," which are undoubtedly more ambitious than anything the show had done before but which, to me, underline the show's limitations in a way that prior seasons of the show hadn't. I find the episodes here where one of the mane six serves as a moral exemplar for another character (ex. "Canterlot Boutique") to not be particularly interesting, as it shifts away from the depictions of insecurity and anxiety which I enjoy in this show. I also dislike the Cutie Map, because the mane six immediately chose to obey it without ever learning for sure how it works or what it wants, and also because I don't like half of its episodes this season. There's a lot of episodes I dislike this season, but mostly I just find it kinda dull.

Highlights for me this season: "The Cutie Map," which is unusually dark for this show; "Bloom and Gloom," which is a genuinely impressive representation of childhood anxiety; "Make New Friends but Keep Discord" and "Rarity Investigates," which are two of the show's funniest episodes in the latter half of its run; "Slice of Life" and "Party Pooped," which both have an amusing sense of absurdity to them; and "Crusaders of the Lost Mark," which provides one of the few genuine changes to the status quo up to that point, and is actually satisfying to boot.

11 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

I think it pushes the boundaries - in a show where we are still to find out what really happened to AJ's parents, it addresses loss, denial, and acceptance against a surrogate target (Tank's absence due to hibernation) where it is made clear the separation is only temporary and thus is less traumatic for the younger viewers.  In best pet we are shown Tank's loyalty and devotion to Dashie, despite only having just met each other, and here we also see the mirror, as Dashie is responding in kind. 

I dunno, I feel like they do those themes a disservice by expressing them so indirectly. I feel that "The Perfect Pear" covers some of the same ground and is more effective for its poetic omission of detail. To each their own, though. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by AlexanderThrond

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,596]

Well, you can't please everyone... 

Edited January 3, 2019 by TheAnimationFana

[CypherHoof 26,483]

3 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I dunno, I feel like they do those themes a disservice by expressing them so indirectly. I feel that "The Perfect Pear" covers some of the same ground and is more effective for its poetic omission of detail. To each their own, though. 

As wonderful (and tearful) as Perfect Pear is, it dodges the elephant in the room, and hard. We see the romance of the two ponies from tiny foal, though teen couple, to marrage, and we see it from the viewpoint of their orphaned fillies, chasing the story from friend to friend of their lost parents.  Yet nowhere is that loss addressed, even obliquely; we see the romance, the rejection by the elder pear, the symbolic intertwined trees, granny's anger at the pears, and so forth.

We are never told what happened to AJs parents though; for all we know (and after shadow play, this seems more possible) they are not even dead, but suspended somewhere it would take a massive amount of power to recover them from (note, I don't believe this to be true, but I am pointing out that due to the lack of acknowledgement of their fates, its entirely possible should the show decide to go in that direction).  Scoots seems more of an orphan than the Apples ever are though, so... yeah.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,596]

Can't we all just agree that "Princess Spike" is terrible?

[Thrond 3,263]

Just now, CypherHoof said:

As wonderful (and tearful) as Perfect Pear is, it dodges the elephant in the room, and hard. We see the romance of the two ponies from tiny foal, though teen couple, to marrage, and we see it from the viewpoint of their orphaned fillies, chasing the story from friend to friend of their lost parents.  Yet nowhere is that loss addressed, even obliquely; we see the romance, the rejection by the elder pear, the symbolic intertwined trees, granny's anger at the pears, and so forth.

 We are never told what happened to AJs parents though; for all we know (and after shadow play, this seems more possible) they are not even dead, but suspended somewhere it would take a massive amount of power to recover them from (note, I don't believe this to be true, but I am pointing out that due to the lack of acknowledgement of their fates, its entirely possible should the show decide to go in that direction).  Scoots seems more of an orphan than the Apples ever are though, so... yeah.

That's fair, but to me Tank doesn't evoke death any more than the Apples talking about their parents in the past tense. 

[CypherHoof 26,483]

9 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

That's fair, but to me Tank doesn't evoke death any more than the Apples talking about their parents in the past tense. 

loss doesn't have to be as permanent or significant as a death to be pretty traumatic though; by invoking a lesser loss (and of course a Dashie-style massive overreaction) the show can address the stages of grief with lower stakes, although the loss of a family pet IS a more likely source of a traumatic experience for a preteen than the loss of a parent, given the expected lifetimes of many pets.

[Thrond 3,263]

1 minute ago, CypherHoof said:

loss doesn't have to be as permanent or significant as a death to be pretty traumatic though; by invoking a lesser loss (and of course a Dashie-style massive overreaction) the show can address the stages of grief with lower stakes, although the loss of a family pet IS a more likely source of a traumatic experience for a preteen than the loss of a parent, given the expected lifetimes of many pets.

I mean, it can, but the lesser stakes make Dash's behaviour a lot harder to accept, and only remind me of what the show isn't allowed to do. To me it feels like the writers overreaching - if you can't talk about death, then maybe you shouldn't talk about death. 

[CypherHoof 26,483]

18 minutes ago, TheAnimationFana said:

Can't we all just agree that "Princess Spike" is terrible?

I think i might risk going as far as "abomination"

1 minute ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I mean, it can, but the lesser stakes make Dash's behaviour a lot harder to accept, and only remind me of what the show isn't allowed to do. To me it feels like the writers overreaching - if you can't talk about death, then maybe you shouldn't talk about death. 

Not disagreeing with that. but they have to work with the constraints they have, and its still a valuable topic and decent episode.  I am happy for Tank, that their devotion to Dashie is so clearly returned.

[Thrond 3,263]

3 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

Not disagreeing with that. but they have to work with the constraints they have, and its still a valuable topic and decent episode.  I am happy for Tank, that their devotion to Dashie is so clearly returned.

To each their own, I suppose. 

[imawesome 449]

This was by far my favorite season. The animation was phenomenal, and the episodes, for the most part, were amazing. Yes, Princess Spike sucked. Yes, What About Discord? is the shows most boring episode to date. All that aside, this season was next to perfect.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,596]

14 minutes ago, imawesome said:

This was by far my favorite season. The animation was phenomenal, and the episodes, for the most part, were amazing. Yes, Princess Spike sucked. Yes, What About Discord? is the shows most boring episode to date. All that aside, this season was next to perfect.

It took more risks, tackle more mature subjects, and is easily the "darkest" season.

(Well, as dark as a show about pastel horses can get.)

[imawesome 449]

10 minutes ago, TheAnimationFana said:

It took more risks, tackle more mature subjects, and is easily the "darkest" season.

(Well, as dark as a show about pastel horses can get.)

Considering AJ's parents are confirmed dead by the staff,  Luna suffered from depression, and Chrysalis has LITERALLY KILLED BUNNIES (go to the first MLP: FiM to know what I mean) I'd say the show can get dark. 

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,596]

1 minute ago, imawesome said:

Considering AJ's parents are confirmed dead by the staff,  Luna suffered from depression, and Chrysalis has LITERALLY KILLED BUNNIES (go to the first MLP: FiM to know what I mean) I'd say the show can get dark. 

You're right. But "The Cutie Re-Mark" has to be the bleakest episode of the show.

[imawesome 449]

Just now, TheAnimationFana said:

You're right. But "The Cutie Re-Mark" has to be the bleakest episode of the show.

Agreed. Oh, and did I neglect to mention the time the show indirectly talked about conformity?