Is Sunset Shimmer the Worst Major Villain?

[Mywas 687]

The mark of a good villain is how much sense his/her action makes. Sombra's action is pretty much nonsense. Why does he torture Crystal Ponies? I don't know, Sunset Shimmer's action makes sense, she wanted power, when Celestia didn't give her the power she wanted, she left to find another way to obtain power. It's a simple premise but at least it's something.

 

No its not nonsense. Think of it like a rapist who chooses a random victim, follows them everywhere they run, tells them that this is their little secret, its all about power, not to mention that Celestia said that The crystal heart could help you take over equestria.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

@tlcbonaparte- Smart = spamming curses, traps, and magic-negating methods left and right to protect your one weakness, and all without telling your enemies about ANY of it.

 

Dumb = just pulling plans from your @$$ left and right, and gloating about nearly ALL of it, all of which biting you in said @$$ pre-victory.

Great you figured out you need a lock to protect your valuables. That's truly the mark of a great thinker.

 

No its not nonsense. Think of it like a rapist who chooses a random victim, follows them everywhere they run, tells them that this is their little secret, its all about power, not to mention that Celestia said that The crystal heart could help you take over equestria.

 

It is nonsense, The only reason you can come up with Sombra's action is he is "evil". And your rapist example doesn't work here because rapists have a motive... they are horny.

[Mywas 687]

It is nonsense, The only reason you can come up with Sombra's action is he is "evil". And your rapist example doesn't work here because rapists have a motive... they are horny.

No you are once again wrong. They dont do it because they are horny, they do it because they like to be in controll, they like to have power over the others. The same thing with Sombra, he enslaves the crystal ponies because he likes being in controll, he likes being the king.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

No you are once again wrong. They dont do it because they are horny, they do it because they like to be in controll, they like to have power over the others. The same thing with Sombra, he enslaves the crystal ponies because he likes being in controll, he likes being the king.

That's simply your interpretation. The show says nothing about why he does what he does. The fact that you are making this up just shows how much nonsense of a motive his character has.

[Mywas 687]

That's simply your interpretation. The show says nothing about why he does what he does. The fact that you are making this up just shows how much nonsense of a motive his character has.

No its not. Its from what I have seen from the episode. He is obsessed, he is crazy, heck he is more like the joker than Discord is. Both Joker and Him have a motive, but you have to THINK to understand it. I swear most bronies don't even think and just be biased.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

No its not. Its from what I have seen from the episode. He is obsessed, he is crazy, heck he is more like the joker than Discord is. Both Joker and Him have a motive, but you have to THINK to understand it. I swear most bronies don't even think and just be biased.

 

Well there is a easy enough way to find out. Show me evidences that direct you to that conclusion. If what you say is true, then the show must have some evidences that supports your claim.

[Mywas 687]

Well there is a easy enough way to find out. Show me evidences that direct you to that conclusion. If what you say is true, then the show must have some evidences that supports your claim.

Theres this scene, it shows that he is making them wear these chains, and walk in shame as a way of telling them that he owns them and that they are below him.

And in this scene we are shown how pleased he is of where he is. He is pleased that hes on throne and is on top of the world.

Like I said he LIKES being the ruler and having being bow down to him.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

Theres this scene, it shows that he is making them wear these chains, and walk in shame as a way of telling them that he owns them and that they are below him.

And in this scene we are shown how pleased he is of where he is. He is pleased that hes on throne and is on top of the world.

Like I said he LIKES being the ruler and having being bow down to him.

 

Not really. I don't see how having ponies chained = loving being ruler. At most it just means he loves to watch ponies suffer. It has no direct correlation with the motive you suggested.

 

That laugh is also very vague. I can say he is laughing because that's what Villains do during an act of villainy. There are no evidence pointing the laugh toward he loves being ruler.

 

These evidences while certainly can fit in your theory can easily be interpreted into something else, thus it cannot be used as solid proof. I think you are kind of forcing your argument here about his motives. You are giving him a motive because you want him to have one, 

[Mywas 687]

Not really. I don't see how having ponies chained = loving being ruler. At most it just means he loves to watch ponies suffer. It has no direct correlation with the motive you suggested.

 

That laugh is also very vague. I can say he is laughing because that's what Villains do during an act of villainy. There are no evidence pointing the laugh toward he loves being ruler.

 

These evidences while certainly can fit in your theory can easily be interpreted into something else, thus it cannot be used as solid proof. I think you are kind of forcing your argument here about his motives. You are giving him a motive because you want him to have one,

 

By that logic The Joker has no motive because its hard to understand and has a lot of loopholes in it.

characters like Sombra/Joker/The Lich/Sauron are the types that you have to think to understand.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

By that logic The Joker has no motive because its hard to understand and has a lot of loopholes in it.

characters like Sombra/Joker/The Lich/Sauron are the types that you have to think to understand.

 

Joker is insane, that's his key personality. And even then he has motives, he is a clown, his crimes are his performances. Are you saying Sombra is insane? If so, show me evidence of his insanity.

 

You keep trying to draw something else into the argument hoping to find something that may prove you right, but you should know it by now Sombra indeed does have no motives. Just accept that, It's like you are trying to dispute every flaw this character has, he can be your favourite villain AND have flaw at the same time you know, the two are not mutually exclusive. Put him on a pedestal and pretend he is perfect just shows people how biased you are. 

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

 I swear most bronies don't even think and just be biased.

The main reason of why people think that EQG is good. It's MLP, so = is good.

Sunset have no real plan beside stealing the crown, and instead of steal it again (You steal it from inside a palace, why should be a problem steal it from a school?). And when she could use Spike as an hostage to force Twilight to give her the crown she let him go and threat to destroy the portal (Wich is at least debatible if it would work or not). So instead to threat a living being that Twilight cares she is threating a portal? What a stupid plan is that? Sombra would have threat to kill Spike, and he sure like heck wouldn't bluff.

[Mywas 687]

Joker is insane, that's his key personality. And even then he has motives, he is a clown, his crimes are his performances. Are you saying Sombra is insane? If so, show me evidence of his insanity.

 

You keep trying to draw something else into the argument hoping to find something that may prove you right, but you should know it by now Sombra indeed does have no motives. Just accept that, It's like you are trying to dispute every flaw this character has, he can be your favourite villain AND have flaw at the same time you know, the two are not mutually exclusive. Put him on a pedestal and pretend he is perfect just shows people how biased you are.

 

Yes Sombra is, Insane, not his whole life as he must have had some sanity when he was on throne but when he returned from his banish he acted like a wild animal. Not a single sane person would go around yelling the same word over and over and the way he moved and talked pretty mucn proves how insane he was, we don't know why he became this way, but its the same for the joker.

 

Also I admit that his motive is not as fleshed out as the others but you are jsut focusing on his motivation implying that its the only way a villain would be good, thats more biased.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

Yes Sombra is, Insane, not his whole life as he must have had some sanity when he was on throne but when he returned from his banish he acted like a wild animal. Not a single sane person would go around yelling the same word over and over and the way he moved and talked pretty mucn proves how insane he was, we don't know why he became this way, but its the same for the joker.

 

Also I admit that his motive is not as fleshed out as the others but you are jsut focusing on his motivation implying that its the only way a villain would be good, thats more biased.

I said at the very beginning of these posts that "to me" a good villain needs to have good motive. I never claimed it's a fact. You are the one who keep trying to give him non-existent motives so he'd fit into my personal criteria of good villain... I am perfectly fine with you liking him as a character, but please don't make him out to be more than he is. He is what he is, and what he is is good enough for you but not for me, Simply as that.

 

 

Edit: Scratch that. I didn't mention it's a personal preference. Well I am telling you now, it is a personal preference. You can like him all you want, but he just doesn't fit into what I think a good villain should be.

Edited September 28, 2013 by tlcbonaparte

[Mywas 687]

Edit: Scratch that. I didn't mention it's a personal preference. Well I am telling you now, it is a personal preference. You can like him all you want, but he just doesn't fit into what I think a good villain should be.

Fair enough, from the way you said it it sounded like your stating a fact.

Not to mention that early you said that the LOTR movies Sauron failed and thats who Meghan based Sombra off so maybe they are not your type

[MoarPony 9]

Not the worst major villain, imo.

While there was a little more plot developed around Sombra, he was barely shown and didn't do much on his own.

I think Sombra was worse.

[Castle Bleck 19,334]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.

[ChoroChii 284]

She was an okay villain, there isn't really a best and worst villain for me. I just enjoyed watching the movie, I don't know. I was too busy enjoying myself to think about something like that.

[Mywas 687]

Not the worst major villain, imo.

While there was a little more plot developed around Sombra, he was barely shown and didn't do much on his own.

I think Sombra was worse.

Have you ever thought that it was to make him like Sauron?

Both barely spoke, both have unclear motivation and background(atleast in the LOTR movies), both just stood there most of the time. Heck, Sombra did more in two episodes that what Sauron did in three movies. Is Sauron a bad villain as well?

[Castle Bleck 19,334]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

Wait, when did this thread's subject suddenly shift from "Is Sunset Shimmer The Worst Major Villain?" to "Sunset Shimmer Vs. King Sombra"? As much as I thumbs-up the guy, maybe we should start comparing/contrasting her to ANOTHER villain; how about AlicornAmulet!Trixie?

 

Alicorn Amulet Trixie (wich, to make things short, i will call AAT) was an okey villain. The problem that many see in the episode Magic Duel is the fact that it didn't goes as they would expect. It wasn't epic or something like that. Are they right? Well, almost.

Since her defeat in the first season the fan of Trixie wanted a episode where she would search revenge on TS, and for revenge it talks to that kind of revenge when the one who you hold a grudge goes 6 feet under.

Well, i can see their points and say that the fight could have been more cool. But at least AAT did duel TS unlike Sunset Shimmer, and also, unlike Sunset who defeat was an absurd deus ex plot hole, but a great way to prove that Twilight isn't only magic, but also brains and a groups of friend who can help her to win.

[MoarPony 9]

Have you ever thought that it was to make him like Sauron?

Both barely spoke, both have unclear motivation and background(atleast in the LOTR movies), both just stood there most of the time. Heck, Sombra did more in two episodes that what Sauron did in three movies. Is Sauron a bad villain as well?

 

Well, I never watched/read the LOTR series so I'm not familiar with Sauron.

I was just taking it from what I already do know.

And take into account that this is supposed to be a kids' show.

Adults can understand plenty without too much info.

How about the kids?

Sure, it's not important to know exactly, but it'd be nice.

 

Sunset just seems overall more well developed (character-wise. Sombra had more of a background story)

[Mywas 687]

Well, I never watched/read the LOTR series so I'm not familiar with Sauron.

I was just taking it from what I already do know.

And take into account that this is supposed to be a kids' show.

Adults can understand plenty without too much info.

How about the kids?

Sure, it's not important to know exactly, but it'd be nice.

 

Sunset just seems overall more well developed (character-wise. Sombra had more of a background story)

Sombra was not suppost to be a character. But more of a half dying guy who lost all of his sanity and is driven by his dark magic, you fear the unknown, he was a metaphor of fear and hate. He is like the lich from Adventure time. Or the grudge. Saying sunset is a better villain just because she has more character is unfair because he was never meant to be a character but a force

[MoarPony 9]

Sombra was not suppost to be a character. But more of a half dying guy who lost all of his sanity and is driven by his dark magic, you fear the unknown, he was a metaphor of fear and hate. He is like the lich from Adventure time. Or the grudge. Saying sunset is a better villain just because she has more character is unfair because he was never meant to be a character but a force

 

Never watched Adventure Time, either.

I like Sunset as a villiain better because the viewer has a reason to hate her.

To elaborate, we know Sunset. We know her personality: she's a total prick.

Just by her personality, we dislike her.

 

As for Sombra, taking what you told me about this Sauron thing, I guess we have a good reason to dislike him, too.

However, there just isn't enough information.

He wants to take over a small empire and force everyone into slavery.

..........okay? And?

It just isn't explained what Sombra really wants to do.

[Mywas 687]

Never watched Adventure Time, either.

I like Sunset as a villiain better because the viewer has a reason to hate her.

To elaborate, we know Sunset. We know her personality: she's a total prick.

Just by her personality, we dislike her.

 

As for Sombra, taking what you told me about this Sauron thing, I guess we have a good reason to dislike him, too.

However, there just isn't enough information.

He wants to take over a small empire and force everyone into slavery.

..........okay? And?

It just isn't explained what Sombra really wants to do.

That is a part that most people seemed to misunderstand, we are told what he was going to do. Remember Celestia line about the crystal heart "if love and hope takes over it reflexes all across equestria, if Hatred and Fear takes over......"

And then we see this

This implies that by filling the crystal ponies and the crystal heart with negative emotion its gonna corrupt equestria, in a way the crystal empire is the heart of equestria. I don't get why people forget this scene

[MoarPony 9]

That is a part that most people seemed to misunderstand, we are told what he was going to do. Remember Celestia line about the crystal heart "if love and hope takes over it reflexes all across equestria, if Hatred and Fear takes over......"

And then we see this

 

This implies that by filling the crystal ponies and the crystal heart with negative emotion its gonna corrupt equestria, in a way the crystal empire is the heart of equestria. I don't get why people forget this scene

 

It's still taking over, though.

Why does he want to take over Equestria?

Why does he want to corrupt everything?

 

We can imply that Sunset Shimmer wants to for revenge, because she apparently didn't get things her way (and I wish this was elaborated, as well).

But, why does Sombra want to?

Does he hate the crystal ponies?

Does he want respect?

What exactly does he want?