Is Sunset Shimmer the Worst Major Villain?

[Astrobrony 655]

You're just giving me more and more reason to hate EQG, dude. Sunset for me had the chance to be the "Dark Side" of Twilight Sparkle. A very smart and gifted unicorn wich hunger for knowledge but even more for power. What it may have been now is lost forever, and there is no comic book that will fix this mistake.

I wouldn't call it a "mistake", but I can understand the sentiment. I'm just saying that Sunset Shimmer worked fine as designed for the movie. Did she have potential to be a lot more? Definitely! I was fine with what we got, but I see where others might not.

[crazitaco 596]

Nah, i wouldn't say that. Atleast she HAD a personality, and didn't just stand there outside the crystal empire patiently waiting for the force field to go out so she could yell CRYSTALSSSSSS and NOOOO for two whole episodes :/

Sombra was boring and barely did anything. I would've loved to see what he could do, like how he managed to overpower the crystal ponies and inject so much fear into their very souls. What terrible, terrible thing did he do (other than enslaving them) to make them so horrified by his presence? What did he do to those who fought back? We never got to see unfortunately. In the crystal empire he waited for the force field to fall, waltzed in and got shot by a beam of crystal friendship. Boom, the end

  Atleast we got to see Sunset's bitchiness in action. And i like her character design.I think that she had (and still does, if she ever returns) alot of potential as a character but the writers just didn't use it to the full extent i was hopeful of. I admit that her plan was indeed pretty lame... i mean, really? Mind control a bunch of high schoolers as a personal mini army? Run for your lives, its a bunch of teenagers!

I still liked her better than Trixie. I thought her redemption was more believable than trixie's, and she would make a better, ACTUAL rival to Twilight. Get pwned trixie fans! lol, jk i still love yall.

Edited July 20, 2013 by crazitaco

[Castle Bleck 19,172]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.

[crazitaco 596]

@crazitaco:

 

Sombra didn't do much? The thing is, he DID, one thousand years ago. Unlike Discord and Nightmare Moon, he had no magical relic to deal with that would be capable of stopping him, because he already did a pretty dang thorough job of it a thousand years ago. He emotionally broke the Crystal Ponies into near depression (meaning they COULDN'T power the Crystal Heart unless they were cheered up) and hid it in his castle in a way that could only be accessed by someone capable of using his magic, protected by a door that not only moved by itself but trapped whoever entered it in their worst fear. And on top of that, finding it would allow him to trigger a trap that not only traps the one going after it but would let him spread his corruption inside the castle without him even having to get through. And the only one keeping him out anyway was slowly weakening and would eventually give out. Whereas the other villains needed to disable their Achilles Heel themselves, Sombra already did. And because of it, he only lost because Spike decided to tag along with Twilight. There was no need for him to actively attack and try to make Cadance's spell give out sooner, because no matter what the heroes did, it'd ultimately benefit him.

 

P.S.: He made his debut by completely disabling Shining's magic in mere seconds (while Chrysalis presumably spent days trying to do the same).

Unfortunately, the events that happened a thousand years ago don't matter to me much when we didn't get to see them unfold. I only count what i saw happen within the present episode, and i'm sure he was awesome 1000 years ago, but he was lame in present day. Besides,  ALL the major villains were pretty awesome 1000 years ago, but failed epically in the present.

The traps in the castle were set a long time ago (built into the castle walls atleast 1000 years ago) He had no visible influence or awareness over them in the episode (besides, how do we know he's actually the one who created all the traps anyway?) The traps didn't work anyway and he was only able to trap twilight once he had already breached the kingdom's shields and was able to use his magic directly within the kingdom. If he had taken a bit longer to get in, twilight would've gotten away with the crystal heart.

I do give him credit for disabling shining armor's magic and for trapping twilight once she got too close to the crystal heart, but that's literally ALL he did within the episode. There was even a moment halfway in the episode where Cadence's shields actually went down for about a minute, and he just KEEPS STANDING THERE! If i was a scary looming monster and i saw my chance to get in, i would've rushed into the kingdom in a heartbeat. If he had been faster about it and not been standing around dawdling, he could have breached the empire half-way through the episode. Instead, he derps around for too long, Cadence wakes up after a minute passes and raises the shields, then he realizes and tries to go in last minute, getting his horn cut off in the process. FAIL SOMBRA, FAIL!

Also, Chrysalis wasn't only trying to disable Shining Armor's magic. She was mainly feeding off it to make herself more powerful. She could've ended him early if she wanted but she wouldn't have been as powerful.

So IMO, Sombra was lame, boring and way too sloppy with his villainy. Even GAK was more interesting than him.

Edited July 20, 2013 by crazitaco

[Castle Bleck 19,172]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.

[prince cosmos 0]

she gets a place in the ginnus book of world records as worst villan ever. but further i liked the story brad was a bit out of place but it was fun i kept laughing.

[crazitaco 596]

@crazitaco-

 

The layers of traps are actually extremely credible when you realize that all the Crystal ponies are Earth ponies, and getting by his traps all but requires the use of magic. A non-unicorn couldn't get through the passageway in the first place, and if they did they'd have to be able to get through the enchanted door (which would delay most ponies long enough for Sombra to notice the intrusion and lay down some whoopass), or up the stairs. And even then the heart is warded against magic anyway. He basically had the foresight to hide the heart in a location that none of the Crystal ponies could get to, and then cover the thing in spells that the most powerful unicorn in Equestria couldn't figure her way out of. And that's just the stuff that's still working a thousand years later; who knows how much security he'd have had up if he were still actually living in the castle. Furthermore, the traps are deliberately designed to prevent unpowered Earth Ponies from bypassing them, as they require magic and flight.

 

Additionally, that broken horn piece due to Cadence's shield actually worked in his favor, giving him a "wireless" link to inside the shield and allowing him to start spreading SOME dark influence, even if he himself was still kicked out, and thus unable to use his full brunt, for the time being. And when he finally DID reach the Empire, you saw all the environmental havoc he wreaked in the few minutes he was there.

 

In conclusion, while its true he lacked personality (so did Sauron, btw), he at least gave off a looming sense of urgency, and was very competent (albeit in actions rather than words). Sunset, to me, gave off none of that, neither in power nor planning; the only urgency I felt when watching the movie was the portal's deadline, which had nothing to do with her.

You forget though that the Crystal Princess is an alicorn and capable of using both flight and magic to get through the traps. I also found it strange that the trap door was activated with dark magic and only openable with light magic. Why would a dark magic unicorn like Sombra create a trap door requires that light magic to be opened and traps those who use dark magic on it? Is he even capable of using light magic??? Then consider the never ending staircase. Seems like a pretty avoidant, non-violent way to keep someone out without actually harming them.The stairs were white as well, not covered in dark crystals like the rest of the palace. If i were evil, my traps would be created with the intent to harm or kill the trespasser.

 

The traps seemed like they were designed to keep evil out. So basically, i don't think Sombra created any of the traps we saw. I think they were designed with the castle for the Crystal Princess to hide the crystal heart in case of an emergency. Also, why didn't Sombra destroy the crystal heart if he had access to it? Seems like a good idea to destroy the one thing that can destroy you. Perhaps he never had any access to the crystal heart to begin with and was bluffing about hiding it because he knew no one would dare search for it. Perhaps the Crystal Princess is the one who hid it, but was silenced by Sombra and never heard from again. Perhaps the disappearance of the Crystal Princess was what caused the mass depression. That's a bunch of perhaps of course....I have no proof that it the traps were created to protect the crystal heart, but there's no evidence to suggest that sombra created the traps either. Its a mystery i would love to see addressed.

 

Sombra got lucky with his horn falling off. If he dawdled any longer than he had, not even his horn would have made it through. Also judging by his surprise and the pain he felt, i don't think it was his intention but it just happened to work out in his favor. I do think his environmental havoc and looming was pretty cool. But that's the only thing he had going for him. He still basically did nothing the entire two episodes. He was so forgettable. I haven't seen lord of the rings so i have no opinion of Sauron.

 

I'm willing to vouch for Sunset Shimmer even if she was pretty cliche. Atleast she put some effort into her villainy. She tried to break Twilight and failed. Then she tries something else, and keeps on trying. She was active, and Sombra was passive. Which is why i can't really say sombra was "competent in his action." he didn't really have any actions. he was just...there... just standing there looking threatening. all bark, no bite.

Edited July 21, 2013 by crazitaco

[Castle Bleck 19,172]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.

[crazitaco 596]

@crazitaco:

 

In Twilight's door-illusion, you could clearly see pictures of Sombra in stained-glass windows; that pretty much confirmed his involvement in the trap systems. Also, his line, "THAT IS MINE!!!" seemed to indicate he was too possessive of the CH to just destroy it (or, more likely, he simply couldn't, as its power seems to be on par with the Elements', so hiding it would've been the next best thing). Conclusively, I'd rather have passive menace that's genuine than active......whatever it was Sunset was trying to do.

 

Summary:

 

Sombra didn't have personality, but compensated by being the darkest villain thus far, and was Crazy Prepared on top of it. Sunset, on the other hand, DID have personality, but it just seemed ripped off from both NMM and Trixie, and she just seemed to be making things up as she went along (and not in a cool "Jack Sparrow" kind of way).

I don't see how Sombra appearing in the stained glass confirms that he was involved with its creation. The trap is simply a reflection of the person's fears. Stained glass windows in Equestria are always used to tell a story. The stained glass windows in the alternate reality depict twilight being defeated by sombra. Twilight's worst fear was the hypothetical situation in which Sombra wins, she fails the test, and celestia disowns her. Because she's afraid of Sombra winning, he appears in the stained glass to confirm her fears that what happened was reality. (Cause the stained glass windows are always right!)

 

The "THAT IS MINE" line does prove that he was highly possessive of it. But its possible to be possessive of something you don't have but greatly desire. Kinda like how waving around a million dollars just out of reach of someone's hands would make them start screaming stuff like 'ITS MINE!" Also, if he wasn't going to destroy the crystal heart, what was he even planning to do with it once he got it?

I think NMM was darker than Sombra. Sombra threatened to enslave a large city (the crystal empire really wasn't much of an empire. more like large city) while NMM threatened the plunge the whole world in eternal darkess. ponies and their crops need light to survive. plunging the world in darkness may have caused the extinction of life itself. And i liked Sunset more than Sombra. Opinion, nuff' said.

Edited July 21, 2013 by crazitaco

[Planty 1,052]

Just as a quick note; there is now a comic story devoted to a bit of her backstory giving her a bit more depth

 

This might make people re evaluate things (I beleive there is a thear now disscussing the comic for those interested in the EQG section )

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

Just as a quick note; there is now a comic story devoted to a bit of her backstory giving her a bit more depth

 

This might make people re evaluate things (I beleive there is a thear now disscussing the comic for those interested in the EQG section )

 

This is not an excuse. You should explain better the MAIN POINT of the villain in the movie. Think for one second if ALL movies would make like this.

It's a lazy and money-grabbing idea.

[Castle Bleck 19,172]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.

[Misty Rose 3,215]

King Sombra is the worst because he FREAKIN ENSLAVED AN EMPIRE JUST FOR FUN!! An entire empire, plus he looks just plain EVIL!!

Sunset Shimmer's redemption was just so weird. She does so many things, and almost KILLS Twilight and her friends but all she has to do is FIX A WALL!! I don't know anything about friendship, yeah right. I didn't really like her at all.

[Dark Horn 430]

I list the five major villains something like this:

 

Discord

Nightmare Moon

King Sombra

Chrysalis

Sunset Shimmer

 

Sombra is better than Shimmer. He's a force of nature, not a character, and he filled the role he was supposed to.

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

@Dark Horn

I agree with your list on the King Sombra being above Sunset on the villains list, for me my list would be:

 Queen Chrysalis

Nightmare Moon

Discord

King Sombra

Sunset Shimmer

[EasternWinds 21]

 

 

I agree with your list on the King Sombra being above Sunset on the villains list, for me my list would be:  Queen Chrysalis Nightmare Moon Discord King Sombra Sunset Shimmer

 

 

Out of all the villains I think Discord should at least be the top number 1 villain out of all of them. Here's my list:

 

1) Discord

2) Queen Chrysalis

3) Angel Bunny *unofficially

4) Nightmare Moon

5) Sunset Shimmer

6) King Sombra

 

Reasoning:

If you think about it, Discord was the only one who actively went against Twilight by attacking the bonds of friendship between the mane 6. He also destroyed their ability to use their elements, set the ponies against one another and caused massive havoc to Ponyville. He was ultimately destroyed due to his hubris and self-proclaimed victory when Twilight managed to unite them again and rainbow blast his body to stone. They also give an extended episode involving him turning over a new leaf and becoming a force of good (not the best way to put it but I'm going by what they said in that episode), which gives him a completed villain arc. I'm hoping we see more of him, even if it's just cameos.

 

Queen Chrysalis attempted a hostile take over via infiltration and invasion, which didn't focus on the mane 6. It was more that the mane 6 happened to be there when it occurred thereby making them high profile targets due to proximity. The changeling does get more screen time and we could get an understanding of her motives and why she targeted Canterlot in the first place. She was only defeated by Shining Armor and Cadance, so in a way she is a good villain but not to the mane 6. A sort of plus and minus depending on how you look at it.

 

Nightmare Moon was the first villain in the pilot episode so I'll give her a pass considering I felt she was just more of a plot device to introduce each of the ponies. She's not very definitive as a character, just that she's been drinking jealousy punch and has a huge vengeance wing boner against Celestia. She did target the mane 6 so ok, props to her.

 

Sunset Shimmer gets at least one up on Sombra only because she actually talks and has somewhat of a loose character arc. She still has alot of gaps and could use alot more exposition behind her character development but she at least has a vague back story, a motive that involves at least Twilight and a chance of redemption. She's still a weak villain but not the worst villain out of the lot.

 

On the other hoof, King Sombra gets a decent backstory but has no lines, no moments of development, essentially no arc. He's not so much a villain, more like a huge obstacle that the ponies have to overcome. Not much to really say about him.

 

Finally, I see Angel Bunny as the unofficial evil villain because he's constantly at end with the other characters. For personality wise he's short tempered, shallow and selfish to a fault. Here's a few things he's done to date: He acts constantly grumpy, tramples Twilight when changed by Discord, beats up Fluttershy when he doesn't get exactly what he wants, and causes mischief with Spike when he knows Spike is supposed to take care of him. Overall, I find Angel Bunny to be the residential minor villain, constantly there to remind you how much you just love to hate him. Also as a side note that Discord gets bonus points for making Angel Bunny on the receiving end of his tail whips.

 

Final Answer to Original Post:

No Sunset Shimmer is not the worst villain, but she is underdeveloped and weak. As far as most cartoon villains go she could use a more fleshed out back story and personality.

[John 793]

What ever happened to the "Spin off movie" not being canon?  I'm sorry but I didn't like the movie before or after I saw it, and it was said that it wouldn't be canon anyway.  

 

[ThunderShock1 24]

Ok, this is just an aside, and I know it goes against the whole "love and tolerate" thing we have going on,

 

But who here wants to freaking CURB-STOMP Shimmer for all of the crap she put Twilight through?

 

Seriously, you mess with my best pony, you're entering a world of pain!

[Mywas 687]

Ok, this is just an aside, and I know it goes against the whole "love and tolerate" thing we have going on,

 

But who here wants to freaking CURB-STOMP Shimmer for all of the crap she put Twilight through?

 

Seriously, you mess with my best pony, you're entering a world of pain!

Well it seems to me that Sunset Has done something right as a Villain.

 

A villain who you hate so badly and want him or her to be Destroyed in hell is a Villain doing his job(Not that Liked villains are bad)

 

Frollo is an example for this

[Dark Horn 430]

@@EasternWinds,

 

So, I like the post, and Angel Bunny as a villain... huh, never really thought about it, I suppose.

 

A couple things I would like to point out, though:

 

-You didn't mention Sombra.

-If you think NMM is just a plot device, I'd ask you to go on YouTube and search up MLP Comics 5-8, I believe, the Nightmare Rarity comics. They will really change your opinion on her.

-See above. The Return of Queen Chrysalis, MLP Comics 1-4, add a lot of depth to Chrysalis' personality. You should read them too, for sure.

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

@Dark Horn I agree, and most of your statements in conjunction to mine well I disagree, just saying lol, but hey you're entitled to

your opinions. 

[MLPForums Phanact 1,374]

By the end of Equestria Girls, I felt really sorry for Sunset Shimmer and I'm glad Twilight wasn't bitter to her despite what Sunset had just done. I'm glad that Twilight left her in the care of her alternate-dimension friends.

[EasternWinds 21]

@@Dark Horn, 

 

Fair enough, I haven't read any of the comics so I'll take a look into it. I'm aware that there's only so much they can do in 25-30 minute cartoon episodes so I understand the use for other mediums like comics or novels to expand the backstories of each character. Still, I'm sure that most villains can be introduced, developed and defeated reasonably well in a cartoon. It's just one of those challenges that story writers face.

 

I did mention Sombra though, albeit it was only a few sentences.  Not enough character description about him considering he didn't do much save for just showing up as a gloomy darkness. 

[Dark Horn 430]

@@EasternWinds,

 

Ah, my bad. I suppose I completely skipped over Sombra. Supposedly, he's based on Sauron from Lord of the Rings, meant to be a force of nature rather than a character. But that still doesn't change the fact that Sombra's not the greatest villain ever.

[Castle Bleck 19,172]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.