Is Sunset Shimmer the Worst Major Villain?

[Mywas 687]

It's still taking over, though.

Why does he want to take over Equestria?

Why does he want to corrupt everything?

 

We can imply that Sunset Shimmer wants to for revenge, because she apparently didn't get things her way (and I wish this was elaborated, as well).

But, why does Sombra want to?

Does he hate the crystal ponies?

Does he want respect?

What exactly does he want?

Although its true we do not know why hes evil. However this only adds to his mysteriousness. And in a way it makes him more scary, an example is that one of the versions of the joker(cant remember who) had his background explained, and in a way it took away some of his mystery. While a lot of versions of the joker have unknown background and it makes them more scary. And it adds mystery

[MoarPony 9]

Although its true we do not know why hes evil. However this only adds to his mysteriousness. And in a way it makes him more scary, an example is that one of the versions of the joker(cant remember who) had his background explained, and in a way it took away some of his mystery. While a lot of versions of the joker have unknown background and it makes them more scary. And it adds mystery

True that, but I think it is a little too mysterious for Sombra.

I mean, we don't know ANYTHING about him.

The background isn't all that important (although nice to have) since, as you said, it adds mystery.

But, there isn't enough information about his motives.

 

And again, I haven't watched anything Batman related (I should get a life), and from your description I'm guessing that not all of the Jokers' goals were explained either, but the Jokers' characters make up for it.

It is obvious that Joker is supposed to be mysterious, hence his entire make-up and "joker" business.

I guess Sombra can be a bit mysterious, too, looking at how he was designed and developed, but it would have been great if he said something other than, "What? No!" and actually said something like, "I'm gonna take over and I'm taking all your virgins huehue"

.....

Okay maybe not that, but yeah.

 

But then, of course, "Sombra" means shadow. So I guess it'll be alright for him to be more unknown.

Edited September 29, 2013 by MoarPony

[Mywas 687]

True that, but I think it is a little too mysterious for Sombra.

I mean, we don't know ANYTHING about him.

The background isn't all that important (although nice to have) since, as you said, it adds mystery.

But, there isn't enough information about his motives.

 

And again, I haven't watched anything Batman related (I should get a life), and from your description I'm guessing that not all of the Jokers' goals were explained either, but the Jokers' characters make up for it.

It is obvious that Joker is supposed to be mysterious, hence his entire make-up and "joker" business.

I guess Sombra can be a bit mysterious, too, looking at how he was designed and developed, but it would have been great if he said something other than, "What? No!" and actually said something like, "I'm gonna take over and I'm taking all your virgins huehue"

.....

Okay maybe not that, but yeah.

 

But then, of course, "Sombra" means shadow. So I guess it'll be alright for him to be more unknown.

Actually Just like The Joker makes up for it by having a character. Sombra makes up for it by his traps and presence.

If you look deep into his traps you would realize that basicly only the smartest of the smart can solve them, which is twilight, but even she had to use spikes help along side the flashback Celestia showed her helped her complete the throne puzzle, not to mention She barely was able to use dark magic which is the only way to solve the throne and worst fear Door. Heck Twilight nearly died if she could not use her magic to lift herself when that stair broke down. Not to mention that Even with all of that Twilight still failed and got caught by sombras no teleportation crystal trap.

And his presence was felt through out the two episodes, heck we seen a crystal pony act like the world is ending when she heard sombras name.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

Sombra is the embodiement of all great villains since the dawn of creation, from now on, he shall only be known as Joker Sauron Brainiac Freeza Man Dingo The Third.

[LanceTheTurtle 28]

At least she has a character. I understand Sombra was supposed to be symbolism, at least a little bit, but The Crystal Empire was a bit of a mess all around. She had more potential as a character and a villain, especially with her setup, but they gave her a reason and a backstory in a sentence and then dropped it. There's nothing poignant about her because they refuse to explore it; the same way I feel about Sombra. The difference is that Sombra is just fear and therefore had no reason to be a character. ('but castle traps and dark magic!'. No, because dark magic does nothing to the character of Twilight Sparkle and could very well just be light magic.) But he is and he isn't so she's nowhere near as bad as him.

 

Sombra < Chrysalis (for being stupid) < Shimmer << Trixie <<<<<<<<<<<<< Luna

All of the major villains, yeah?

Edited September 29, 2013 by LanceTheTurtle

[Castle Bleck 19,174]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

Summary (NO King Sombra this time, I SWEAR):

 

Yes, Sunset Shimmer IS the worst major villain, because she's a mere high-school bully who thinks having only ONE Element Of Harmony will help her make an army SOMEHOW strong enough to beat the OTHER Element-bearers, the Princesses, Shining Armor, DISCORD, etc.

 

Her plan sucks all the ways and is based on plot-holes and details that are not explained in the slighest.

The zombie army didn't look really smart, and neither Sunset seems to have the power to control them since she order to Snips and Snail to gather them. If in their original form the zombies are so stupid i can't imagine how goofy they would be in a new body. They could actually do even worst than Twilight when she get in the human world.

And how the buck is she gonna fit a great number of students that moves slow in a small portal wich is on his way to shut?

And if she goes back to the original dimension of the elements of harmony, shouldn't the crown goes back normal and turn her back to the normal unicorn form?

And how in the name of all sakes is she gonna take over Equestria with a little army of zombie teenager with no experience at all in battle and to use magic when she has pitted against Celestia, Luna, Cadence and the Crystal Heart, Discord and the other elements of harmony.

[duidamasterXD 9,626]

 

 

Her plan sucks all the ways and is based on plot-holes and details that are not explained in the slighest. The zombie army didn't look really smart, and neither Sunset seems to have the power to control them since she order to Snips and Snail to gather them. If in their original form the zombies are so stupid i can't imagine how goofy they would be in a new body. They could actually do even worst than Twilight when she get in the human world. And how the buck is she gonna fit a great number of students that moves slow in a small portal wich is on his way to shut? And if she goes back to the original dimension of the elements of harmony, shouldn't the crown goes back normal and turn her back to the normal unicorn form? And how in the name of all sakes is she gonna take over Equestria with a little army of zombie teenager with no experience at all in battle and to use magic when she has pitted against Celestia, Luna, Cadence and the Crystal Heart, Discord and the other elements of harmony.

 

Well, in defense of Sunset's plan:

• If the students are being mind controlled, they may not have the same awkwardness that Twilight had. They don't know how to operate a pony body? They're not in control anyway. Sunset knows how to control a pony body just fine.
• What's stopping her from controlling more ponies when she goes to Equestria? I think a brainwashed army of royal guards could cause some trouble, especially considering the princesses would probably be hesitant to harm them.
• Who knows what else she had up her sleeve? Sunset seemed to know how to use the Element of Magic in ways that Twilight never did. She was wielding a crazy powerful Element of Harmony, and the elements have been shown to trump the princesses' abilities and even Discord. Who's to say that Discord wouldn't end up as a slab of stone again?
• I imagine she'd just turn into a demonic superpowered pony when going through the portal. I have no idea why the portal would depower her, like you seem to suggest.

Alternatively, Sunset Shimmer hijacked the most powerful magical artifact in both worlds and was simply defeated by a random plot device before she had a chance to use it. It's easy to criticize her when she wasn't empowered for more than a few minutes before getting zapped by a magical rainbow that, following the rules of the series so far as they've been laid out, they shouldn't have been able to use in the first place.

 

Not saying that she would've won or anything, or that her "teenage army" didn't make me roll my eyes. I just feel like a lot of people underestimate how much trouble she could've been if she'd lasted longer.

[Marthy 15]

Sunset Shimmer was a mediocre villain, yes, but this is a kids show we're talking about.

 

They won't bother making such complex and memorable villains. They'll all be "rawr rawr I'm evil and I want to take over the world!" cliches.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Marth

[Mywas 687]

At least she has a character. I understand Sombra was supposed to be symbolism, at least a little bit, but The Crystal Empire was a bit of a mess all around. She had more potential as a character and a villain, especially with her setup, but they gave her a reason and a backstory in a sentence and then dropped it. There's nothing poignant about her because they refuse to explore it; the same way I feel about Sombra. The difference is that Sombra is just fear and therefore had no reason to be a character. ('but castle traps and dark magic!'. No, because dark magic does nothing to the character of Twilight Sparkle and could very well just be light magic.) But he is and he isn't so she's nowhere near as bad as him.

 

Sombra < Chrysalis (for being stupid) < Shimmer << Trixie <<<<<<<<<<<<< Luna

All of the major villains, yeah?

Theres a difference between a character and a villain.

The Ice King has more character devolopment than the lich but the lich is a better villain because hes is a bigger threat and his plan is smart

[tlcbonaparte 15]

Her plan sucks all the ways and is based on plot-holes and details that are not explained in the slighest.

The zombie army didn't look really smart, and neither Sunset seems to have the power to control them since she order to Snips and Snail to gather them. If in their original form the zombies are so stupid i can't imagine how goofy they would be in a new body. They could actually do even worst than Twilight when she get in the human world.

And how the buck is she gonna fit a great number of students that moves slow in a small portal wich is on his way to shut?

And if she goes back to the original dimension of the elements of harmony, shouldn't the crown goes back normal and turn her back to the normal unicorn form?

And how in the name of all sakes is she gonna take over Equestria with a little army of zombie teenager with no experience at all in battle and to use magic when she has pitted against Celestia, Luna, Cadence and the Crystal Heart, Discord and the other elements of harmony.

 

Hmm.. So you feel a good villain should explain his/her evil plots? I don't know if that's the best characteristic for a villain.

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

Well, in defense of Sunset's plan:

• If the students are being mind controlled, they may not have the same awkwardness that Twilight had. They don't know how to operate a pony body? They're not in control anyway. Sunset knows how to control a pony body just fine.
• What's stopping her from controlling more ponies when she goes to Equestria? I think a brainwashed army of royal guards could cause some trouble, especially considering the princesses would probably be hesitant to harm them.
• Who knows what else she had up her sleeve? Sunset seemed to know how to use the Element of Magic in ways that Twilight never did. She was wielding a crazy powerful Element of Harmony, and the elements have been shown to trump the princesses' abilities and even Discord. Who's to say that Discord wouldn't end up as a slab of stone again?
• I imagine she'd just turn into a demonic superpowered pony when going through the portal. I have no idea why the portal would depower her, like you seem to suggest.

Alternatively, Sunset Shimmer hijacked the most powerful magical artifact in both worlds and was simply defeated by a random plot device before she had a chance to use it. It's easy to criticize her when she wasn't empowered for more than a few minutes before getting zapped by a magical rainbow that, following the rules of the series so far as they've been laid out, they shouldn't have been able to use in the first place.

 

Not saying that she would've won or anything, or that her "teenage army" didn't make me roll my eyes. I just feel like a lot of people underestimate how much trouble she could've been if she'd lasted longer.

 

1) If they are mind controlled then Sunset shoulnd't need to use Snips and Snail to gather her army, and still she is gonna control both army and at the same time fight?

2) The fact that passing through the portal would cause the crown to working back as original, and because the pony in the other world have magic, unlike the school;

3) You're making up excuses. She didn't know that the elements should have worked that way, or else she wouldn't look so surprise of the effects of the crown. She only knew that in an alternative dimension the crown change, but this dosen't prove nothing, also because Twilight manage get the crown back with the deus ex plot of friendship. And for Discord, even counting that the crown would change back to normal Sunset, would not fall so easy against her, sure not with the help of the other;

4) Nope, she would go back to normal, cause the crown works the way it do in an alternative dimension. So if anything could happen the crown would become useless, just like the element of Loyalty didn't worked with Spike.

And one elements is not enough to go fighting against an other army, a powerful object (The crysyal heart), a trio of alicorns, the spirit of chaos.

[Genepool 224]

I just can't bring myself to watch Equestria Girls.  I'm not that "OMG, no ponies, BOOO!!! Send threats to DHX over it" kinda crap person, and I waited quite patiently after the concept designs, initial synopsis blurb release, and minor clips.  It's with the full synopsis release, several reviews from different people in and out of the fandom, that I felt the story/plot is lackluster, Sunset Shimmer's character offered nothing, and the designs were attrocious.  What irritated me the most was Twilight as the centric focus for her alicornhood/princessdom, the all too obvious jokes about her wings (those clips I saw were just sad, to be honest, with Twilight's bed scene and then trying to fly when all of the ponies are outside and she falls on her face), and not to mention that song "Help Twilight win the crown." 

 

The film is mediocre at best, and I found a good majority of what I have seen, read, and looked at to be an insult to DHX's creative writing skills.  With episodes such as A Canterlot Wedding, Green isn't your Color, Sleepless in Ponyville, and the like under their belt, I just can't feel anything towards the film. 

 

Take it as you will, but in my personal opinion, I still believe Equestria Girls was written by Hasbro (80% of it) and the rest was given to DHX. 

 

Does this film deminish my faith in DHX? No. Does it make me concerned that Hasbro is taking a heavy handed approach to their little poster pony Twilight Sparkle, her alicornhood and princessdom? short answer: yes.  Long answer: Kind of since IDW talked about it.  Though IDW talked about it, they aren't allowed to release anything and I won't forge Tara Strong's words on the chat before S3 where it was said Twilight wouldn't become a Princess and then she did.  I blame Hasbro coaching her what to say, more than I blame Tara Strong on that one.  It could be the same case with IDW where they have to send their responses into a PR department to get them cleared for release.

 

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

Hmm.. So you feel a good villain should explain his/her evil plots? I don't know if that's the best characteristic for a villain.

 

Now you're getting silly. How i can feel threatned by a villain i, the viewer, need to understand how much powerful the villain is, how smart her plan is. And the 2 things should be explained well, cause how in Lauren Faust sake i can really understand if the plan is gonna work. I need to feel that the villain can do what it says is gonna do. All that Sunset do is acting tough, but there is no real proof that the crown would work, and there is no real proof that an army of teenager, pony or not, can pose as threat to a country where live very powerful being.

[duidamasterXD 9,626]

 

 

1) If they are mind controlled then Sunset shoulnd't need to use Snips and Snail to gather her army, and still she is gonna control both army and at the same time fight?

 

Fair point, upon rewatching the scene it doesn't seem that she can control them very well.

 

 

 

2) The fact that passing through the portal would cause the crown to working back as original, and because the pony in the other world have magic, unlike the school;

 

You're still losing me here. Can you explain to me what you think would happen to the crown upon going through the portal? I think that Sunset would change back into a more equine shape, for sure, but what do you think would happen to the crown and why? I was under the impression that she was tapping into its magic, and that she might still be able to in Equestria. For all intents and purposes she's a very powerful unicorn who seems to have studied the Elements beforehand. Do you think that there's no chance that she would still be able to use the powers she unlocked in the human world?

 

 

 

3) You're making up excuses. She didn't know that the elements should have worked that way, or else she wouldn't look so surprise of the effects of the crown.

 

I think that reacting with surprise to a magical transformation of your body is reasonable. It's pretty weird, even if you're prepared for it after all. After that she seems to know how to use her new abilities fairly well, only showing surprise at the magical barrier and their ability to use the Elements to defeat her.

 

And true, I don't know whether she'd be able to use the crown to defeat Discord or not, even if she were able to use it in Equestria. I will say that it seems a little unfair to use a villain's inability to take Discord down as a mark against their competence.

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

Fair point, upon rewatching the scene it doesn't seem that she can control them very well.

 

 

 

 

You're still losing me here. Can you explain to me what you think would happen to the crown upon going through the portal? I think that Sunset would change back into a more equine shape, for sure, but what do you think would happen to the crown and why? I was under the impression that she was tapping into its magic, and that she might still be able to in Equestria. For all intents and purposes she's a very powerful unicorn who seems to have studied the Elements beforehand. Do you think that there's no chance that she would still be able to use the powers she unlocked in the human world?

 

 

 

 

I think that reacting with surprise to a magical transformation of your body is reasonable. It's pretty weird, even if you're prepared for it after all. After that she seems to know how to use her new abilities fairly well, only showing surprise at the magical barrier and their ability to use the Elements to defeat her.

 

And true, I don't know whether she'd be able to use the crown to defeat Discord or not, even if she were able to use it in Equestria. I will say that it seems a little unfair to use a villain's inability to take Discord down as a mark against their competence.

 

1) Ok;

 

2) It isn't explained well, im not sure that she was tapping the magic, otherwise when TS manage to take the crown back shouldn't Sunset turn again Human? And still, even if she didn't turn back into a normal pony, the crown will stop working the way it was, cause if already the magic inside TS manage to take the element right into her. And Sunset, for how much she know about the elements, she just know this thing here. If she really knew more than Twilight, who is the official bearer, it would be kinda of dumb, don't you think? But even if she knew, it wouldn't matter, cause she is not the rightful bearer of the element;

 

3) Ok again;

 

I think that if they took the time to explain her plan better, and fixed the plot-holes, her plan wouldn't suck that much. But unfortunatly is just a huge if.

[Castle Bleck 19,174]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

Now you're getting silly. How i can feel threatned by a villain i, the viewer, need to understand how much powerful the villain is, how smart her plan is. And the 2 things should be explained well, cause how in Lauren Faust sake i can really understand if the plan is gonna work. I need to feel that the villain can do what it says is gonna do. All that Sunset do is acting tough, but there is no real proof that the crown would work, and there is no real proof that an army of teenager, pony or not, can pose as threat to a country where live very powerful being.

 

There are other kinds of fear than those being shown in plain sights. The fear of the unknown is one of the greatest fear of all. To quote Hamlet

 

"But that the dread of something after death,

The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn

No traveller returns, puzzles the will,

And makes us rather bear those ills we have

Than fly to others that we know not of?

Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,"

 

Fear stem from lack of understanding, That is why I find it amusing you consider Sunset's lack of explanation for her evil scheme a shortcoming.

[FNGRpony 655]

Joker is insane, that's his key personality. And even then he has motives, he is a clown, his crimes are his performances. Are you saying Sombra is insane? If so, show me evidence of his insanity.

 

You keep trying to draw something else into the argument hoping to find something that may prove you right, but you should know it by now Sombra indeed does have no motives. Just accept that, It's like you are trying to dispute every flaw this character has, he can be your favourite villain AND have flaw at the same time you know, the two are not mutually exclusive. Put him on a pedestal and pretend he is perfect just shows people how biased you are. 

 

 

I think you made the best argument.  How ever if you've ever seen the movie "thank you for smoking."

wining the argument doesn't equal right or correct.

 

Alot of people are able to come up with the no brainers of sombre attached to evil kings wether their mentioned or not.

You'd make an excellent defense attorney for King Sombre LOL.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

I think you made the best argument.  How ever if you've ever seen the movie "thank you for smoking."

wining the argument doesn't equal right or correct.

 

Alot of people are able to come up with the no brainers of sombre attached to evil kings wether their mentioned or not.

You'd make an excellent defense attorney for King Sombre LOL.

 

If Sombra is on trial, you will find me in the prosecution table rather than the defense:P But you are right, changing people's mind is a monumental task and I am just not up for it.

Edited October 1, 2013 by tlcbonaparte

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

There are other kinds of fear than those being shown in plain sights. The fear of the unknown is one of the greatest fear of all. To quote Hamlet

 

"But that the dread of something after death,

The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn

No traveller returns, puzzles the will,

And makes us rather bear those ills we have

Than fly to others that we know not of?

Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,"

 

Fear stem from lack of understanding, That is why I find it amusing you consider Sunset's lack of explanation for her evil scheme a shortcoming.

 

How the heck am i supposed to feel that Sunset is a treat if she didn't show anything?

There is no poethic explaination that holds.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

How the heck am i supposed to feel that Sunset is a treat if she didn't show anything?

There is no poethic explaination that holds.

 

It's not a poem... It's Hamlet's soliloquies about why do people fear death, and his conclusion is the unknown, the unknown nature of death cause people to fear it. 

 

And it's a perfectly good example how something not explained can invoke strong feeling in people if only hinted at.

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

It's not a poem... It's Hamlet's soliloquies about why do people fear death, and his conclusion is the unknown, the unknown nature of death cause people to fear it. 

 

And it's a perfectly good example how something not explained can invoke strong feeling in people if only hinted at.

 

So you're saying that instead to explain why her plan should work and give a good reason to fear that she will succed they are doing the exact opposite, leaving tons of reasons of why her plan WILL FAIL just because of the other reason that any non-biased people a perfect could think about it.

Edited October 2, 2013 by DashForever

[tlcbonaparte 15]

So you're saying that instead to explain why her plan should work and give a good reason to fear that she will succed they are doing the exact opposite, leaving tons of reasons of why her plan WILL FAIL just because of the other reason that any non-biased people a perfect could think about it.

 

 

I spent two posts pointing you to the same example which you choose to ignore and refuse to see what I said about your "it only is scary when it's explained" logic. 

 

Now one last time, THINK about what I just posted. Now ANSWER me what do you think about the fear of unknown and the example given by me. 

Edited October 2, 2013 by DashForever
Removed off-topic and abusive content

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

I spent two posts pointing you to the same example which you choose to ignore and refuse to see what I said about your "it only is scary when it's explained" logic. 

 

Now one last time, THINK about what I just posted. Now ANSWER me what do you think about the fear of unknown and the example given by me. 

 

You're trying to back up your weak explanation with some random phrase.

For all that i've and others have seen Sunset Plan is full of holes, so it would be nice if they show that she can do what she is saying.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Twilight Sparkle