Equestria Girls Plot-Holes

[EasternWinds 21]

 

 

well to put it more simply i think magic in equestria works like magic in most of our human lore(sensing the writers of the show are humans), that to use magic one must have 2 things a decent enough Spark (source of mana/magic often named life energy)(names may vary) and a Core (a method of converting mana into much more usable energy)(names may vary), for example in harry potter witches and warlocks already have a spark which makes them different from muggles but they use an external Core in which case they use wands to cast spells and so on (other types of magic logic runs in similar fashion with some only expounding on certain things), in Equestrias case the unicorns and alicorns use their horn as a Core for them to cast spell (which was implied in MLP EG that without twilights horn she couldnt cast a levitation spell to open the door), which also leads me to believe that magic already exist in the human world only that they have no means of using it (ergo no cores for them to use), which also leads me to believe that rarity (the human) in her semi-pony form can cast magic but was never shown in the movie

 

Ok fair enough,  if we introduce the magic core theory (energy source + converter = insta-magic!) then that sort of makes sense. I'd even be willing to buy the idea that we could even go by the Harry Potter Universe rules and say that only certain people are capable of magic and the rest are muggles. This would effectively make the human mane 6 all the more special and it wouldn't create more plot holes unless you really wanted to stretch it. 

 

The question I would have is if that is the case, given the rules of magic including knowledge of how to use the converter, shouldn't Twilight not know how to use magic in her human form? She spends a lot of screen time faffing about because she has never experienced the use and feel of hands, fingers and toes. She also needs to get used to not having a horn, the usual converter she utilizes to channel magic. How is she able to cast that shield spell so quickly then? Even if we look at the episodes, we see Twilight (super powerful unicorn keep in mind) having to spend at least anywhere from 0.5 to 3 seconds powering up her horn and converting the raw magic to tangible use. Do we just assume the power of friendship created the spell? Or that because she was a super powerful magic user that she can summon a shield without a horn/converter (assuming the crown is just an amplifier)? Even supposedly if Twilight got her hands on a wand, would she know how to use it? Once again, it opens up more questions than answers.

 

I understand you're trying to establish rules for the Equestrian universe, but this movie throws the rules out for a loop. It's good that you're trying to put logic into this though. It's much better than "because it's magic, therefore it doesn't have rules!" kind of argument. ugh. 

 

 

 

i think that Sunset Shimmer has an affinity for the element of magic thus she can use it and at the same time Twilight who was the previous owner still had a bond left with the crown and thus (either sub-consciously or consciously) managed to use the crown as a Core to cast the protection spell (the protection spell used a purply light which signify twilights magic)   as for my assumption on Twilight being a better mage id give that to Celestia, if you havent forgotten the 1st time celestia and twilly met Celestia stated that she has never seen a unicorn that posses that much raw ability and take note that at this point in time celestia has probably already taught SS or is still in the process of teaching SS and thus in celestias eyes twilight is better than sunset shimmer

 

 

Ok, so wait. Is the crown considered a core, an amplifier or both? I just want to make sure we're on the same page as that. Either way it doesn't explain much about the crown's abilities. If proximity to the crown is an issue, how close does Twilight and her group have to be in order to utilize the crown's powers? In the episodes, we always see the mane 6 wearing the elements in order to use their powers. If Twilight can channel the magic powers from a distance, doesn't this become a plot in and of itself? Also I find it weird that if Sunset Shimmer has an affinity to supposed crown, then why doesn't Celestia? She clearly is the sun goddess and is capable of firing magic white death rays from her horn so why does she not have an affinity? 

 

And yes I know she did say in the episodes she wasn't capable of using the elements of harmony but now that we introduced the idea of magic affinity, why can't she at least use the element of magic? It can't be because she's a bad mage or she lacks power, she can lift the freaking sun! She's also the embodiment of good so why not.... my brain hurts. 

 

 

 

id like to add due to our own arguements (me and my friends) bout how the human Mane 6 (rare,RD,AJ,FS,Pinks) manage to use their own element weve come up with 2 possibilities: 1. (which i endorse) is that the elements do not chose a physical form and can create bonds with other creatures who share a similar Spark as the Elements represented (RDs Loyalty,Pinks Laughter) and that thanks to the portal which was still open the elements from equestria saw the strenght of the girls and granted them their power, which also explains why their semi-pony form disappeared exactly after the portal closed 2. is that there is a human ver of the elements of harmony which is within close proximity to the school and the Human Mane 5 (rare,RD,AJ,FS,Pinks) managed to awake them using twilights Element of Magic as its catalyst (most of my friends who loved MLP EG wants this explanation coz it would be a good series spinoff) 

 

 

Well the original human Twilight hasn't had the chance to meet the human mane 5, so the idea for a spin off is still out there. Personally I would retcon this before creating the spin off considering there would be continuity plot holes like the portal mirror that opens every 30 days or Sunset Shimmer who is still in the human world despite originally being a pony. Also where's her original human persona? 

 

Either option would technically work, either have the elements present in the school somewhere or have the use of the elements have some connection to the magic of friendship. I wouldn't have it connect to Equestria though, again too many plot holes if you were to try and explain that.

 

 

 

It's always been implied that the physical manifestation of the elements of harmony (Twilight's crown for instance) isn't the element itself, but a representation of her element. When Nightmare Moon destroyed the stones that everyone believed were the elements, Twilight realized then that those weren't the elements, but her friends themselves were, and that's what gave rise to their physical forms such as the crown and the necklaces. What is needed in order to unleash the power of the elements aren't the embroidery, but the spirit of friendship that the unity of the mane 6 represents. This is what ultimately triggers the reaction in the crown. The presence of Twilight's friends allows the elements of harmony to take effect.

 

 

If it's implied then why did we have the episode of Discord, which required the said embroidery to defeat him? In fact they use that as deterrents to curb his behavior when he is brought back for friendship conditioning courtesy of Fluttershy. Unless we've invoking special rules of cross dimensional loopholes then we're led to believe that the bling bling are more than just representations. In fact I'm more inclined to believe the pieces to be amplifiers, which draws out their power to defeat the evulz, courtesy of Lunas Sorrow.

 

Equestria Girls basically throws a monkey wrench into this logic. I can sort of buy the idea that the other human mane 6 characters brought out the elements from within themselves, but now we have Twilight who already has the crown brought out being able to channel it's magic easily when we can clearly see she is nowhere near wearing said headpiece. So basically my previous post still holds in that either:

 

A ) Twilight doesn't really need the crown if she can channel that energy anyways and that the crown really isn't that important if such were the case (even though it really is in reference to the episodes). Therefore chasing after the crown was pointless.

or

B ) The crown is an actual magic tool and has no relation to Twilight, therefore Twilight summoning the crown from within is not a symbolic representation of her and that anypony could use it (Sunset Shimmer) rendering Twilight unessential to the mane 6 team. Personally this one is one idea I would not prefer because that makes the elements of harmony not special at all.

 

I will say that for story sake she still had to get the crown anyways if she wanted to keep certain post-villains like Discord in check.

[Nature's Spell 526]

She probably had eaten since her friends gave her food? She could have easily just asked someone perhaps, someone dependable like Apple Jack? They helped her with the "pony" bit, I'm sure one person could easily help her in that department. Though, people usually tend to stay after school, I'm sure that one person would have seen it or the cameras would have picked it up that she was there. (Then again, this is how _my_ school function)

I think having her sleep in the library was paying homage to her living in a library in Equestria and was a safe environment for her. Could they have done something else? Yeah but what they did works in the context of the story and the time frame.

I'm not very interested in ordering the MLP universe or filling plot holes, but I'm taking a stab at it anyway, or at least stating what I think happened.

First, I take what Cadence and Luna said about the crown at face value. Twilight had to gain control of her Element and thus the crown. Sunset Shimmer turned into a demon for one of two reasons. One, because her soul was corrupt, she was not Twilight and thus not strong enough to control the power or two, she changed herself into that form because she wanted to be that way. My guess is the former. Now Twilight got control of her crown because the act of her friends protecting her charged them and gave Twilight back her "horn". Notice her forehead is glowing as it would with her horn. Clearly it's easier for Twilight to wear the crown, but it responding to her will at a distance still makes sense.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Nature Spell

[Tri-Dart 38]

Obviously Equestria Girls has plot-holes but the one that stuck out the most to me was why in the name of celestia Sunshine Shimmer turned into a demon! How!? Just how!? How does one simply use the most impotant element of harmony to turn into a demon!? Just how!?

~Tri-Dart

[Nature's Spell 526]

Obviously Equestria Girls has plot-holes but the one that stuck out the most to me was why in the name of celestia Sunshine Shimmer turned into a demon! How!? Just how!? How does one simply use the most impotant element of harmony to turn into a demon!? Just how!?

~Tri-Dart

I think the implication of that scene is that the Element shows your true side if you try to corrupt it or have a impure heart. It's like using the Darkside if you're a Jedi. As I said above either she was distorted by her jealously into a demon (a la Nightmare Moon) or she used the magic to transform herself.

[Girls Dead Monster 5]

Who opened the portal to the human world in the first place? I mean, why would anypony purposely build a portal to an alternate dimension?

[Fhaolan 4,484]

Who opened the portal to the human world in the first place? I mean, why would anypony purposely build a portal to an alternate dimension?

 

Why not? I mean, it's a pretty standard trope, drilling through dimensional barriers just to see what's on the other side. People have been writing stories about doing that since... well, since forever really. Before we came up with the concept of 'alternate dimensions' they were talking about otherworlds and spirit realms and whatever that are effectively the same thing.

[Lunas Sorrow 21]

Ok fair enough,  if we introduce the magic core theory (energy source + converter = insta-magic!) then that sort of makes sense. I'd even be willing to buy the idea that we could even go by the Harry Potter Universe rules and say that only certain people are capable of magic and the rest are muggles. This would effectively make the human mane 6 all the more special and it wouldn't create more plot holes unless you really wanted to stretch it. 

 

The question I would have is if that is the case, given the rules of magic including knowledge of how to use the converter, shouldn't Twilight not know how to use magic in her human form? She spends a lot of screen time faffing about because she has never experienced the use and feel of hands, fingers and toes. She also needs to get used to not having a horn, the usual converter she utilizes to channel magic. How is she able to cast that shield spell so quickly then? Even if we look at the episodes, we see Twilight (super powerful unicorn keep in mind) having to spend at least anywhere from 0.5 to 3 seconds powering up her horn and converting the raw magic to tangible use. Do we just assume the power of friendship created the spell? Or that because she was a super powerful magic user that she can summon a shield without a horn/converter (assuming the crown is just an amplifier)? Even supposedly if Twilight got her hands on a wand, would she know how to use it? Once again, it opens up more questions than answers.

 

I understand you're trying to establish rules for the Equestrian universe, but this movie throws the rules out for a loop. It's good that you're trying to put logic into this though. It's much better than "because it's magic, therefore it doesn't have rules!" kind of argument. ugh. 

 

i think the form doesn't really matter for twilight (or any unicorn/alicorn either) for one thing by my logic of magic casting spells wouldn't really be affected by form as long as you have a Spark (energy source)(name may vary) that can provide sufficient energy, a core (energy converter)(names may vary) to convert the energy into something useful, and the knowledge of how to use the converted energy, plus you also have to consider that  twilight  is a gifted mage like in the gala ticket incident she managed to cast a teleportation spell without even knowing what it does or how she should have done it. As for how the protection spell happened im assuming that  twilight really wanted to protect her friends and she already knows how to do a basic protection spell (1st thing that popped in my head was when she protected everyone from discord) plus her natural affinity with magic itself, twilight ( either sub-consciously or consciously) casted the spell plain and simple(i have a general idea for explaining this but im at a loss for words at the moment but stranger things have happened in fiction ya know)

 

 

 

 

Ok, so wait. Is the crown considered a core, an amplifier or both? I just want to make sure we're on the same page as that. Either way it doesn't explain much about the crown's abilities. If proximity to the crown is an issue, how close does Twilight and her group have to be in order to utilize the crown's powers? In the episodes, we always see the mane 6 wearing the elements in order to use their powers. If Twilight can channel the magic powers from a distance, doesn't this become a plot in and of itself? Also I find it weird that if Sunset Shimmer has an affinity to supposed crown, then why doesn't Celestia? She clearly is the sun goddess and is capable of firing magic white death rays from her horn so why does she not have an affinity? 

 

And yes I know she did say in the episodes she wasn't capable of using the elements of harmony but now that we introduced the idea of magic affinity, why can't she at least use the element of magic? It can't be because she's a bad mage or she lacks power, she can lift the freaking sun! She's also the embodiment of good so why not.... my brain hurts. 

 

 

 well if you look at it this way (souleater reference) consider a Electric Guitar and an Amplifier(that twilight is the guitar and the crown thingy(element of magic) is the amplifier), a guitar sounds differently on its own as to when used with an amplifier the sound not only gets stronger but also changes (ergo using this reference the crown can act as a Core)

 

i did say that my theories in magic affinity is based on 3 things right?? (if not here it is):

1.Genetics

2.Personality

3.Luck

 

in celestias case it wouldn't be hard to say that celestias personality may have changed that day she used the elements to banish her sister to a point that the Elements of Harmony (note she uses all the element not just magic) may have lost their affinity with her

 

but in my opinion i think that its not that but rather Celestia was just scarred by that event (banishing nightmare moon) and just refuses to use them even when her sister came back (although at that point the Elements found new owners) but thats just me. I believe that Celestia is not at all Godlike as other people portray her and that having to banish her own beloved sister really put a bad taste in her mouth (to put it mildly) even if it was for the greater good, and even when she knew that it would eventually save Luna (this is my belief that Celestia didnt just banish her to the moon on a whim but she did it to help/cure Luna for it is in most human Lore that the sun is the source of life but becoz it is too strong it ends up killing things but the moon that only reflects the suns light can use that life bringing energy without harming the recipient) doing anything to hurt your little sister is just wrong 

[CosmicDash 31]

My favorite plot-hole is when Sunset Shimmer threatens to smash the portal at the end, even though (because it's a portal) the hammer would just go through the portal and hit pony Dash in the face. There was no reason for Twilight to be threatened by that

Edited August 1, 2013 by CosmicDash

[Lunas Sorrow 21]

My favorite plot-hole is when Sunset Shimmer threatens to smash the portal at the end, even though (because it's a portal) the hammer would just go through the portal and hit pony Dash in the face. There was no reason for Twilight to be threatened by that

me thinks that was a spur of the moment bluff that she did note she did just lose a contest she believed adamantly she would win plus she was desperate and im assuming just watching twilight up on stage would really piss Sunset Shimmer off to point of not thinking straight

[ThunderShock1 24]

Here's another thing.

 

Why is this movie set in the crystal empire?

 

When you think about it, it doesn't really need to be there.

 

If it were in Canterlot, at least it would make sense for shimmer to know the layout and everything.

[Lunas Sorrow 21]

Here's another thing.

 

Why is this movie set in the crystal empire?

 

When you think about it, it doesn't really need to be there.

 

If it were in Canterlot, at least it would make sense for shimmer to know the layout and everything.

actually i thinks its most likely becoz the crystal empire now has the most powerful defense in all equestria note that shinning armor and cadence(who both shown incredible skill in casting protection spells) are there plus with the crystal heart the Crystal Empires defense should be near impenetrable, so with that in mind it does make sense to move the more dangerous items to the crystal empire 

 

as for SS knowing the layout i have 2 theories 1 is that she came before hand and studied the layout of the crystal castle coz if you think bout it how would SS know that twilight would come to the crystal empire let alone know that twilight became a princess and the wielder of the element of magic (she was supposedly stuck on the human world for a long time), theory no.2 is that she used some sort of tracking spell similar to what rarity used to track gems but more intuned to track the Element of Magic, tracking spell coupled with a location spell (similar to a bats sonar but using magic instead) which allows her the ability to move around without getting caught by the guards. Maybe she used both methods but who knows

[EasternWinds 21]

 

 

i think the form doesn't really matter for twilight (or any unicorn/alicorn either) for one thing by my logic of magic casting spells wouldn't really be affected by form as long as you have a Spark (energy source)(name may vary) that can provide sufficient energy, a core (energy converter)(names may vary) to convert the energy into something useful, and the knowledge of how to use the converted energy, plus you also have to consider that  twilight  is a gifted mage like in the gala ticket incident she managed to cast a teleportation spell without even knowing what it does or how she should have done it. As for how the protection spell happened im assuming that  twilight really wanted to protect her friends and she already knows how to do a basic protection spell (1st thing that popped in my head was when she protected everyone from discord) plus her natural affinity with magic itself, twilight ( either sub-consciously or consciously) casted the spell plain and simple(i have a general idea for explaining this but im at a loss for words at the moment but stranger things have happened in fiction ya know)

 

I'm guessing that teleportation attempt was Twilight having understood the basics of that spell in order for her to be able to cast it and subconsciously rely on her past knowledge to pull through. That, or it was a one in a million fluke. Reason stands is that so far from what we've seen in the shows is that magic manipulation requires a lot studying and practice. Unicorns have their respective private magic schools and universities, Pegasi have their flight camps and academies plus weather training to manipulate clouds, and Earth Ponies have.... school. Given what we know so far, 

 

Also keep in mind that while Twilight is a genius/hardworking unicorn, she still has to study the respective spells before she can cast them accurately (examples such as cloud walking spell, giving Rarity artificial wings, etc). So certain spells would be required to learn in order to produce the right effect. That leads me to believe that without other gestures or spells words, the horn requires subtle magic manipulation which requires some sort of memory training. Twilight does have the knowledge of casting spells as a unicorn, but not as a human being. It's like asking Harry Potter to cast magic holding  wand between his teeth. I'm sure eventually he'll be able to cast it, but it still takes practice and training that Twilight never received as a human. Otherwise if we went with your reasoning, Twilight would have been able to cast spells as a human regardless of having the crown (amplifier) in the first place because she would have everything (Core, Spark, Knowledge) no matter how 'weak' her core would have been. We don't see that happening though even when she tries initially (couldn't open door with magic). Unless you want to believe that she not only absorbed the blast from SS's magic attack, but also managed to convert it to raw magic for her to use and cast a shield spell within an instant. This is also a lot of explanation for a plot hole.

 

 

 

 well if you look at it this way (souleater reference) consider a Electric Guitar and an Amplifier(that twilight is the guitar and the crown thingy(element of magic) is the amplifier), a guitar sounds differently on its own as to when used with an amplifier the sound not only gets stronger but also changes (ergo using this reference the crown can act as a Core)   i did say that my theories in magic affinity is based on 3 things right?? (if not here it is): 1.Genetics 2.Personality 3.Luck   in celestias case it wouldn't be hard to say that celestias personality may have changed that day she used the elements to banish her sister to a point that the Elements of Harmony (note she uses all the element not just magic) may have lost their affinity with her   but in my opinion i think that its not that but rather Celestia was just scarred by that event (banishing nightmare moon) and just refuses to use them even when her sister came back (although at that point the Elements found new owners) but thats just me. I believe that Celestia is not at all Godlike as other people portray her and that having to banish her own beloved sister really put a bad taste in her mouth (to put it mildly) even if it was for the greater good, and even when she knew that it would eventually save Luna (this is my belief that Celestia didnt just banish her to the moon on a whim but she did it to help/cure Luna for it is in most human Lore that the sun is the source of life but becoz it is too strong it ends up killing things but the moon that only reflects the suns light can use that life bringing energy without harming the recipient) doing anything to hurt your little sister is just wrong 

 

 

Yeah I can accept that. Celestia does mention that she cannot use the elements herself anymore. Whether or not she is simply lying or telling the truth, for all intents and purposes she cannot utilize the elements. However, she was betting so much on a maybe coming from Twilight in that she had to make 5 other friends who happen to possess the same qualities (genetic and personality) linking them to their respective element and being able to overcome all obstacles to defeat NM. Either the sun princess had amazing foresight or she made one heck of a gamble. I guess she's very hoofdarn lucky then.

 

I think at this point, the whole explanation is coming from a lot of assumptions, which is good but again doesn't change the fact that since the movie or episodes didn't explain it, it still makes it a significant plot hole. I'm sure we could build enough speculative lore but I think we'd be trying to explain this issue until the next nightmare moon festival.

 

On to another thing, doesn't anypony find it weird that Celestia didn't bother covering up the portal or at least putting preventive counter measures so ponies simply don't do exactly what SS did? That was kind of weird to me. Also the fact that Celestia doesn't decide to fix this problem by simply placing the portal where it isn't easily accessible? huh...

[Lunas Sorrow 21]

I'm guessing that teleportation attempt was Twilight having understood the basics of that spell in order for her to be able to cast it and subconsciously rely on her past knowledge to pull through. That, or it was a one in a million fluke. Reason stands is that so far from what we've seen in the shows is that magic manipulation requires a lot studying and practice. Unicorns have their respective private magic schools and universities, Pegasi have their flight camps and academies plus weather training to manipulate clouds, and Earth Ponies have.... school. Given what we know so far, 

 

Also keep in mind that while Twilight is a genius/hardworking unicorn, she still has to study the respective spells before she can cast them accurately (examples such as cloud walking spell, giving Rarity artificial wings, etc). So certain spells would be required to learn in order to produce the right effect. That leads me to believe that without other gestures or spells words, the horn requires subtle magic manipulation which requires some sort of memory training. Twilight does have the knowledge of casting spells as a unicorn, but not as a human being. It's like asking Harry Potter to cast magic holding  wand between his teeth. I'm sure eventually he'll be able to cast it, but it still takes practice and training that Twilight never received as a human. Otherwise if we went with your reasoning, Twilight would have been able to cast spells as a human regardless of having the crown (amplifier) in the first place because she would have everything (Core, Spark, Knowledge) no matter how 'weak' her core would have been. We don't see that happening though even when she tries initially (couldn't open door with magic). Unless you want to believe that she not only absorbed the blast from SS's magic attack, but also managed to convert it to raw magic for her to use and cast a shield spell within an instant. This is also a lot of explanation for a plot hole.

id also like to point out that twilight also managed to copy a spell celestia used in the ep "The Crystal Empire" just from watching it once and judging from the difficulty on how twilight casted it not to mention that its a uncommon spell (based facial expressions) id assume the spell itself was difficult, you have to admit that twilight is a natural when it comes to magic so much so that magic itself is her destiny (as shown in her cutie mark) so it wouldn't be hard to imagine twilight being able to cast a spell using an external core not to mention that the core is what 5-10 ft away? as i stated as long as the basics of magic was already there twilight with her natural talent for it could actually do it. Plus i also stated she may have done it sub-consciously meaning she herself may not know how to do it but her latent ability coupled with her desire to protect was able to pull it off

 

 

 

 

Yeah I can accept that. Celestia does mention that she cannot use the elements herself anymore. Whether or not she is simply lying or telling the truth, for all intents and purposes she cannot utilize the elements. However, she was betting so much on a maybe coming from Twilight in that she had to make 5 other friends who happen to possess the same qualities (genetic and personality) linking them to their respective element and being able to overcome all obstacles to defeat NM. Either the sun princess had amazing foresight or she made one heck of a gamble. I guess she's very hoofdarn lucky then.

 

this has become a lively discussion around my group of friends (note all of us are otakus and most of us love mystery novels but not all are bronies though) 

 

for me what you stated just strengthens my belief that almost anyone can use the Elements of Harmony as long as the user share a similar trait (as i stated before my theories on magic states that personality can alter someones spark). Now comes the actual discussion me and my friends have whether or not it was pre-planned by celestia (sensing celestia is very very old like the Doctor in Dr.Who who seems to have an ability to predict and counter his enemies without even raising a sweat)or that celestia just winged it

 

my theory is this

Celestia already planned on making twilight use the elements of harmony, (id like to point out that the Elements of Harmony the Mane 6 uses Laughter,Loyalty,Kindness,Honesty,Generosity and Magic are all per-requisite traits of a good Princess in equestria) but i think that celestia didn't want to burden twilight with the weight of carrying the elements herself so she instructed her to go find friends to share her burden, it was abundantly clear (for me) that celestia wanted twilight to meet the Mane 6 (as it was in her list of things to do) but whether or not they would become friends was the gamble celestia made

 

 

 

 

On to another thing, doesn't anypony find it weird that Celestia didn't bother covering up the portal or at least putting preventive counter measures so ponies simply don't do exactly what SS did? That was kind of weird to me. Also the fact that Celestia doesn't decide to fix this problem by simply placing the portal where it isn't easily accessible? huh...

 

it was stated that celestia wanted SS to use the portal back to equestria to ask for guidance if ever she needed it

Celestia was being a wise and considerate teacher who wants her Prodigal Student to return to her is all

Edited August 2, 2013 by Lunas Sorrow

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

it was stated that celestia wanted SS to use the portal back to equestria to ask for guidance if ever she needed it

Celestia was being a wise and considerate teacher who wants her Prodigal Student to return to her is all

 

Yeah, she wanted her EX-Prodigal Student to come back and see that she was replaced . And she didn't think that Sunset, already showed that was a jerk with dangerous skill that can go back and fourth between human and pony dimension could get, you know, kind of angry to have been replaced and may have murdered the NEW Prodigal Student in her sleep for revenge. Of course not -_-  . But im sure that Celestia would have a good excuse to say to the other Mane 4 for why the lack of any kind of security at ALL.

And still, even if Sunset didn't went into the portal, what would stop any human to get inside that thing and find out the pony dimension? After all, didn't Celestia stated that if too many use the portal it would cause the destruction of the universe? And still she leave it with nothing at all to stop such danger?

Now, i have a new plot-hole thing: Why Sunset seems to have the same age of Twilight? In the comic it was showed that she had the same age of TS when TS was a little Filly. Should'nt Sunset be 10 years older?

[Lunas Sorrow 21]

Yeah, she wanted her EX-Prodigal Student to come back and see that she was replaced . And she didn't think that Sunset, already showed that was a jerk with dangerous skill that can go back and fourth between human and pony dimension could get, you know, kind of angry to have been replaced and may have murdered the NEW Prodigal Student in her sleep for revenge. Of course not -_-  . But im sure that Celestia would have a good excuse to say to the other Mane 4 for why the lack of any kind of security at ALL.

And still, even if Sunset didn't went into the portal, what would stop any human to get inside that thing and find out the pony dimension? After all, didn't Celestia stated that if too many use the portal it would cause the destruction of the universe? And still she leave it with nothing at all to stop such danger?

Now, i have a new plot-hole thing: Why Sunset seems to have the same age of Twilight? In the comic it was showed that she had the same age of TS when TS was a little Filly. Should'nt Sunset be 10 years older?

you have to take in consideration that Celestia wanted only whats best for her students plus it is equestria not earth(ergo our world) where people are overly paranoid and trust is a commodity that we seem to lack but i digress Celestia is a kind and benevolent ruler who only wants best for her people plus i think she saw a goodness in Sunset Shimmer why else would celestia make SS her student (you have to consider that Celestia is a very wise pony ) and judging from how Celestia described SSs final days of her being a student plus SSs personality in the movie id say Sunset Shimmer wanted a whole lot more than what celestia was willing to give her at the time

 

for the age thing i didnt really know that for me im assuming SS would be 2-3 years older than twilight plus it was stated that it was only shortly after SS that twilight became a student, age was never really properly established in the show either soo oh well

 

oh just to point it out (mostly coz it kept screaming at me)"EX-Prodigal Student" would imply that Sunset Shimmer already returned and continued being a student of Celestia

[Fhaolan 4,484]

 

Now, i have a new plot-hole thing: Why Sunset seems to have the same age of Twilight? In the comic it was showed that she had the same age of TS when TS was a little Filly. Should'nt Sunset be 10 years older?

 

What makes you think she *isn't* 10 years older? The ages in the humanverse are all mangled around anyway, so it's not useful to gauge. There are several background ponies that are presented in show as being significantly older, but in the humanverse they're all in the same narrow age-range of high school students. If age translated correctly, Celestia and Luna would be walking skeletons...

[GenderIsAnIllusion 2,177]

The only 2 plotholes that I see, or even agree with out of all these responces are:

 

How did sunset Shimmer find the portal?: Im guessing she was taught it by Celestia, but one cant assume this.

 

Human Celestia seemed to be a bit... off...:  And I don't even agree that this is a plot hole. How can you compare the sovereign ruler to a principle at a high school?.. of COURCE shes gunna be very lackluster in comparison.... Same with Luna,

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

you have to take in consideration that Celestia wanted only whats best for her students plus it is equestria not earth(ergo our world) where people are overly paranoid and trust is a commodity that we seem to lack but i digress Celestia is a kind and benevolent ruler who only wants best for her people plus i think she saw a goodness in Sunset Shimmer why else would celestia make SS her student (you have to consider that Celestia is a very wise pony ) and judging from how Celestia described SSs final days of her being a student plus SSs personality in the movie id say Sunset Shimmer wanted a whole lot more than what celestia was willing to give her at the time

 

for the age thing i didnt really know that for me im assuming SS would be 2-3 years older than twilight plus it was stated that it was only shortly after SS that twilight became a student, age was never really properly established in the show either soo oh well

 

oh just to point it out (mostly coz it kept screaming at me)"EX-Prodigal Student" would imply that Sunset Shimmer already returned and continued being a student of Celestia

 

Oh, so i guess that Dumbledore is just a big meanie to want to stop Voldemort to kill Harry Potter . Oh, and shame on you Obi-Wan to have aid Skywalker to defeat Darth Vader . SRSLY, being benevolent should'nt mean being so much careless. Sunset could have murdered Twilight Sparkle in her room and no one could have stop her. Oh well, what you DON'T DO to your students.

And no, ponies are not paranoid like we humans, but what is the other dimension species? Ah yeah, HUMANS. Beings who are paranoid and could easely find out the portal and, thank to the attention that Celestia give to the portal, they could sent spies to get information.

Sunset Shimmer or not, the thing to leave the portal with no security is DUMB.

for the age thing i didnt really know that for me im assuming SS would be 2-3 years older than twilight plus it was stated that it was only shortly after SS that twilight became a student, age was never really properly established in the show either soo oh well

 

oh just to point it out (mostly coz it kept screaming at me)"EX-Prodigal Student" would imply that Sunset Shimmer already returned and continued being a student of Celestia

 

The age for the mane 5 is unknown, but in the comics we've seen that Sunset was already older than Twilight. I think is pretty clear that Sunset is more than 2-3 years old, oh and Fluttershy is older than Pinkie Pie, that in the show too    . For ex-prodigal student i meant that she is ex. And ex is meant to say that she is no longer a student.

[Lunas Sorrow 21]

Oh, so i guess that Dumbledore is just a big meanie to want to stop Voldemort to kill Harry Potter . Oh, and shame on you Obi-Wan to have aid Skywalker to defeat Darth Vader . SRSLY, being benevolent should'nt mean being so much careless. Sunset could have murdered Twilight Sparkle in her room and no one could have stop her. Oh well, what you DON'T DO to your students.

And no, ponies are not paranoid like we humans, but what is the other dimension species? Ah yeah, HUMANS. Beings who are paranoid and could easely find out the portal and, thank to the attention that Celestia give to the portal, they could sent spies to get information.

Sunset Shimmer or not, the thing to leave the portal with no security is DUMB.

as you stated SS could have killed twilight in her sleep but didnt....................you actually have to take in consideration that Sunset Shimmer was good but just got blinded by her desires and its not right to compare MLPEG to harry potter and starwars in char development-wise MLPEG is and always will be meant for children ergo not to violent and that sometimes even badguys arent all bad

 

 

 

 

 

The age for the mane 5 is unknown, but in the comics we've seen that Sunset was already older than Twilight. I think is pretty clear that Sunset is more than 2-3 years old, oh and Fluttershy is older than Pinkie Pie, that in the show too    .

what comics is this??? ive read the official comics of MLP from issue 001-009 (still waiting on 010) including all the micro series and not one of them mentioned Sunset Shimmer. I stick to my theory that SS is bout 2-3yrs older 

 

my theories on the Mane 6s age (using human age)

 

Fluttershy (15 yrs of age) (i think fluttershy is the oldest amongst the mane 6 mostly becoz is the episode Cutiemark Chronicles it was shown that Fluttershy is slightly taller than RD and her legs are longer and more slender than the rest suggesting she has started puberty (right round 12 yrs old) plus being a late bloomer just fits my image of Fluttershy)

 

Apple Jack (14-15yrs of age)(it fits her image of being the responsible older sister of the group)(also note that on the episode Cutiemark Chronicles she was allowed to go out on her own which suggests that she was already old enough to do so)

 

Pinkie Pie  (14 yrs of age)( as stated in the show Fluttershy is only one yr older than pinkie)

 

Rarity (13-14 yrs of age)(rarity is a conundrum for me, she has maturity but lacks maturity as well)

 

Rainbow Dash (12-13yrs of age)(her personality suggests a certain lack of maturity)

 

Twilight Sparkle (12 yrs old) (this fits her being a genius coupled with her lack of worldly know-how fits her being the youngest to a tee)

 

and based on my Theories Sunset Shimmer should be right round 15 yrs of age

 

 

 

For ex-prodigal student i meant that she is ex. And ex is meant to say that she is no longer a student.

uhm.......the term Prodigal student already means that she already left Celestia and by us "Ex" you are stating that Celestia no longer accepts Sunset Shimmer as as student (right?? based on how i read your post?) which would be wrong  based on Celestias response and her reactions in the movie Celestia still thinks of Sunset Shimmer as her student

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

as you stated SS could have killed twilight in her sleep but didnt....................you actually have to take in consideration that Sunset Shimmer was good but just got blinded by her desires and its not right to compare MLPEG to harry potter and starwars in char development-wise MLPEG is and always will be meant for children ergo not to violent and that sometimes even badguys arent all bad

No, she just wanted to steal Twilight crown, use it to gain power in the human dimension and do who knows what. If Celestia had the faith in Sunset she would have said "Oh well, Sunset did steal the crown but im sure that she's gonna bring it back once she has done playing in the other world cause im sure she is not gonna try some stupid plan to take over Equestria :derp:" . Heck, if Spike wasn't there probably Sunset plan would'nt have much problem. She didn't, but she could. It's a risk that any wise ruler should avoid at all cost.

what comics is this??? ive read the official comics of MLP from issue 001-009 (still waiting on 010) including all the micro series and not one of them mentioned Sunset Shimmer. I stick to my theory that SS is bout 2-3yrs older

 

You can find the comic on the EQG page. It's shown that Twilight was just a little filly and Sunset was already Mane 5 age like.

uhm.......the term Prodigal student already means that she already left Celestia and by us "Ex" you are stating that Celestia no longer accepts Sunset Shimmer as as student (right?? based on how i read your post?) which would be wrong  based on Celestias response and her reactions in the movie Celestia still thinks of Sunset Shimmer as her student

 

My english is not perfect, sorry for that.

And Celestia didn't give any clue that Sunset was still her student or wanted her back. Heck, she didn't even show sorry for her remaining in the other dimension. But i can say that Celestia did show mercy for Discord, maybe she could have done it for Sunset. But if Celestia still have doubt for Discord at the end of his reform episode so much to leave the elements in ponyville, i think she could have take the same precautions fo Sunset.

[EasternWinds 21]

 

 

id also like to point out that twilight also managed to copy a spell celestia used in the ep "The Crystal Empire" just from watching it once and judging from the difficulty on how twilight casted it not to mention that its a uncommon spell (based facial expressions) id assume the spell itself was difficult, you have to admit that twilight is a natural when it comes to magic so much so that magic itself is her destiny (as shown in her cutie mark) so it wouldn't be hard to imagine twilight being able to cast a spell using an external core not to mention that the core is what 5-10 ft away? as i stated as long as the basics of magic was already there twilight with her natural talent for it could actually do it. Plus i also stated she may have done it sub-consciously meaning she herself may not know how to do it but her latent ability coupled with her desire to protect was able to pull it off

 

Yeah, I'm guessing there's other factors though to consider. Twilight isn't consistent when it comes to the use of magic, sometimes she's very competent with her spell casting and other times she screws up casting them. Which core are you referring to? I thought the crown was an amplifier and the spell attack from SS the spark. The idea is also banking a lot on Twilight being so natural in magic, which I'm fine with but she has to go through this entire ordeal without any added help save for her human friends, all of which who have no idea on magic. I dunno, it just sounds like Twilight is becoming like a Mary Sue at this point considering she's able to accomplish so much without much to start out with.

 

That and making friends with the human mane 6 and convincing them to help her win the crown within a the span of a day. At this point I'm willing to buy Twilight's amazing magic aptitude over the fact she had to become such close friends that quickly that they would go through all that trouble to help her. Then again everything in this movie is very rushed.

 

 

 

No, she just wanted to steal Twilight crown, use it to gain power in the human dimension and do who knows what. If Celestia had the faith in Sunset she would have said "Oh well, Sunset did steal the crown but im sure that she's gonna bring it back once she has done playing in the other world cause im sure she is not gonna try some stupid plan to take over Equestria :derp:" . Heck, if Spike wasn't there probably Sunset plan would'nt have much problem. She didn't, but she could. It's a risk that any wise ruler should avoid at all cost.

 

 

On Sunset Shimmer's character, theres too little information on her character apart from the typical alpha bully in the school. No exact reasoning behind her motivations to steal the crown thus far or use the idea of human teenaged army plan. If she ran through the portal as a last minute getaway, I could understand her shoddy planning but it wasn't. She actually planned to go to the other universe from the very beginning. So yeah she could have murdered Twilight or just steal the crown and run away (she had ample opportunity to just switch and teleport out) as far as we know. It's a kids movie though so at least the murder option is out. 

 

Assuming Celestia is not omniscient, her flaws would be that she's too soft and kind hearted. In effect she's like a parent, she loves her ponies and wants the best of them but sometimes overlooks somepony's inherent flaws. That also means any potential evil ponies would be able to take advantage of her kindness and exploit that to the max. I'm guessing that's why her judgement was off when Twilight accused fake Cadance of being evil. She just couldn't fathom the thought.

 

However, I just feel that for someone who has the collected knowledge of at least a thousand years, she would at least have the sense to provide adequate security in the castle. Hasn't she experienced attempted assassinations throughout her long life? How come there aren't any counter measures against magic users? Just for somepony who is very experienced, she has a very naive way of handling things. 

 

Spike didn't really do much in the movie except be a butt monkey and provide one assist to the game of keep away in the climax. I was kind of mad that he wasn't shown to be more capable than he usually was.

 

Also speaking of characters, why are Snips and Snails working for Sunset? This is never explained. I get that they admired Trixie and wanted to emulate her in some form but the movie makes the two to be outright mean spirited. These two are the ones that should be naive and just child-like in character instead of following SS, taking creepy pictures (I cringed when they did this in the movie) and trashing the dance floor.

 

 

 

The only 2 plotholes that I see, or even agree with out of all these responces are:   How did sunset Shimmer find the portal?: Im guessing she was taught it by Celestia, but one cant assume this.   Human Celestia seemed to be a bit... off...:  And I don't even agree that this is a plot hole. How can you compare the sovereign ruler to a principle at a high school?.. of COURCE shes gunna be very lackluster in comparison.... Same with Luna,

 

 

Supposedly Sunset finding the portal is explained in the MLP comics. I never read it though. I agree that this is a pretty big plothole since it really never was explained in the movie. You could just take it step further and use the portal itself as a plothole. Celestia herself says she has no idea what is on the other side of the portal, which makes it weird to me that she would even allow it to exist, unprotected and unsealed. I mean we could discuss possibilities but again with no explanation any of us could just say she created it, found it, got curious and tested a magic spell, etc. and it wouldn't mean anything because that would beg the question of the existence of other portals. 

 

Is it possible she could open up portals to, I dunno, say Ren and Stimpy universe? Monster high? Ben 10? 

 

Given that Celestia seemed bored during the conversation with Twilight and how Luna could not discern between an obvious cut and paste photo of Twilight, I'm inclined to say that the two sisters hate their life. I'd take it a step further and say that both Celestia and Luna didn't appear in the climax to stop SS because they were hoping she would blow up the school so they could spare themselves the trouble of running it. Ah well, unless there's a spin off (retconned please), we will never find out.

[Lunas Sorrow 21]

Yeah, I'm guessing there's other factors though to consider. Twilight isn't consistent when it comes to the use of magic, sometimes she's very competent with her spell casting and other times she screws up casting them. Which core are you referring to? I thought the crown was an amplifier and the spell attack from SS the spark. The idea is also banking a lot on Twilight being so natural in magic, which I'm fine with but she has to go through this entire ordeal without any added help save for her human friends, all of which who have no idea on magic. I dunno, it just sounds like Twilight is becoming like a Mary Sue at this point considering she's able to accomplish so much without much to start out with.

 

That and making friends with the human mane 6 and convincing them to help her win the crown within a the span of a day. At this point I'm willing to buy Twilight's amazing magic aptitude over the fact she had to become such close friends that quickly that they would go through all that trouble to help her. Then again everything in this movie is very rushed.

 

I agree the MLP EG was rushed and if feels like it has such potential story wise but with the budget given and the low expectations for the movie id say that it was good not to mention that its a movie for kids soo having a little plot holes here and there are fine. Heck when i was young i love Tom and Jerry, Looney Toons etc etc and now that ive grown up and i started watching them again i cant believe how many questions popped up 

 

as for twilight i believe that she is gifted but she is subconsciously putting the genie in the bottle so to speak, the most convincing one id noticed in the show bout how Twilight is subconsciously limiting her own powers is the ep "Too many Pinkie Pies" in this episode she tried to make an apple into an orange but becoz (now this is just my opinion) she concentrated too hard the spell failed but it was repeatedly shown that when she casted the spell without concentrating as much and with pinkie pie bouncing on her the spell worked and made a bird and a frog into an orange without her realizing it, even though this was just meant for a gag scene it does show that twilight tends to mess up her spells when she tries to hard but when there is something at stacks her natural instincts kick in

 

 

*pardon for my lack of response for the others but im currently not feeling to good as i am sick and bored (i miss my job) and i have over eager friends who try to nurse me back to health with a blend of home remedies from different cultures in which they herald from and that none of them are actual doctors may have made my simple cold worse -.- but they my friends and i believe in them

Edited August 4, 2013 by Lunas Sorrow

[EasternWinds 21]

 

 

*pardon for my lack of response for the others but im currently not feeling to good as i am sick and bored (i miss my job) and i have over eager friends who try to nurse me back to health with a blend of home remedies from different cultures in which they herald from and that none of them are actual doctors may have made my simple cold worse -.- but they my friends and i believe in them

 

Good luck, I hope you get better then. Just make sure your friends are careful about overdoing it, though given by the sounds of it, looks like they've already went too far.

 

Best thing for a cold is bed rest and drinking lots of lukewarm fluids. 

[Half-Note 273]

You want a plot hole? try this one one for size:

 

 

 

 

I found this on Derpibooru, I'm ashamed to admit that I never even thought of that until I saw this.

Well we saw that sunset shimmer never wanted to get rid of the portal at the end. She bluffed, and Twilight called her on it. Simple.

[EasternWinds 21]

 

 

Well we saw that sunset shimmer never wanted to get rid of the portal at the end. She bluffed, and Twilight called her on it. Simple.

 

 

It's less on the whole bluff and more on the reality of the threat and Twilight's logic. 

 

Threat:

SS would smash the portal unless Twilight gave her the crown.

 

Reality:

Hammer would pass through the portal, probably smashing head first into one of the mane 5 on the other side. Ouch.

 

Bluff:

Twilight says her universe would be alright without her. The human universe needs her here to fight SS.

 

Reality:

Without her, the elements of harmony would be useless and any foreseeable threat would be met unchallenged, putting Equestria into further jeopardy. Twilight would have been smart enough to realize the futility of the threat first, considering she is the nerdy girl.

 

It's like a rolling derp derp moment. Twilight should have just interrupted with a renegade action, throwing a buttload of muffins at her face! That would have made more sense and it would have been more entertaining.

 

Following your train of thought, The bigger question would be how SS procured a sledge hammer in the first place? I don't think those are common tools you would find in a high school of all places and we saw nothing of construction or renovation going on in the school. That and how she managed to acquire it that fast between the time of Twilight winning the crown and chasing Snip & Snail to the school entrance.