Is Celestia a manipulator who steals free will?

[Zoraxe 546]

@@Zoraxe,

 

You are correct. For a show that was meant for little girls, we are putting an almost absurd amount of thought into it.

 

Nevertheless, maybe it was just me, but it felt to me as if Celestia wasn't manipulating; she was being helpful. As I said, maybe it's just me.

 

Being helpful to fix a problem she herself purposly caused. Putting lots of thought into a show is fun, its just frustrating when it seems the writers dont think enough.

 

No.

I believe that if Twilight objected to any of the tasks she were given, Celestia would never have forced her to do them. She gave them to Twilight so that she could become something more, so she could live up to her full potential. She knew she was special, but never would have forced her to be anything. She believes Twilight can handle being a princess, and so she made her one without asking. Because she knew that Twilight wouldn't object to it, having known Twilight for years.

She is a wise and kind ruler. She only wants the best for Equestria and her ponies.

And I like Luna as much as I like Celestia. I love them both.

 

What terrible reasoning.

[Mzukiller 233]

You know, I'm a guy that over analyzes this show every chance I get. But even I can tell that this line of thinking is just unnecessarily antagonistic.

 

Celestia is a manipulator yes, because that's what someone in her position is supposed to do. But come on, stealing free will? Plus what free will, Twilight would do anything for the princess. Every ounce of her being is devoted to Celestia, so it's not about free will.

[~Squishy Skies~ 756]

I don't mean to sound blunt, but these ridiculous, barbaric Celestia theories are nothing short of silly.

 

She's a kind, gentle ruler who knows what's best for her people. There's literally nothing that supports this theory, or the other ridiculous theories such as Celestia being a cruel tyrant.

 

Sometimes, I wonder if some of you people even watch the show.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Squishy

[John 793]

I don't mean to sound blunt, but these ridiculous, barbaric Celestia theories are nothing short of silly.

 

She's a kind, gentle ruler who knows what's best for her people. There's literally nothing that supports this theory, or the other ridiculous theories such as Celestia being a cruel tyrant.

 

Sometimes, I wonder if some of you people even watch the show.

 

We only can know what the writers decide to show us.  For all we know, Celestia is a manipulative Tyrant who only puts on a facade of kindness.  And come on.  1000 years on the moon because your little sister was being rebellious?  Seems a little harsh.

 

That being said, I don't hate Celestia.  I just think that she is praised wayyy too much.

Edited July 30, 2013 by John

[~Squishy Skies~ 756]

We only can know what the writers decide to show us.  For all we know, Celestia is a manipulative Tyrant who only puts on a facade of kindness.  And come on.  1000 years on the moon because your little sister was being rebellious?  Seems a little harsh.

 

That being said, I don't hate Celestia.  I just think that she is praised wayyy too much.

*Sigh*

 

Just no.

 

The only get what the writers decide to make. Anything else is speculation, and head-canon. 

 

Also, for an immortal god, 1,000 years is probably like a 10 minute time-out. Stop being butthurt over something that is done and over with. Luna is with us. She has been forgiven. Isn't that all that should matter?

[John 793]

Also, for an immortal god, 1,000 years is probably like a 10 minute time-out. Stop being butthurt over something that is done and over with. Luna is with us. She has been forgiven. Isn't that all that should matter?

 

So we can assume that time passes faster for Alicorns but we are not allowed to assume that Celestia was too harsh in her punishment?  We even see Celestia and Luna live out their lives as normal ponies do.  That's evidence enough for me to prove that time doesn't pass any faster for them.

 

And it's not head-canon.  It's we don't know for sure.

Edited July 30, 2013 by John

[~Squishy Skies~ 756]

So we can assume that time passes faster for Alicorns but we are not allowed to assume that Celestia was too harsh in her punishment?  We even see Celestia and Luna live out their lives as normal ponies do.  That's evidence enough for me to prove that time doesn't pass any faster for them.

 

And it's not head-canon.  It's we don't know for sure.

Those theories aren't even related.

 

And it's ridiculous head-canon, and that's all it will ever be.

 

It's a freakin' kids show. There's no reason to get your jimmies rustled over it.  Just enjoy the masterful programming.

 

Also, people being banished for long periods of time have been in fairy tales/stories for ever. Not sure if this is supporting anything, but I'll throw it out there anyway.

[John 793]

Those theories aren't even related.

 

Uhhgg..  That's not what I'm saying.  I'm saying that if you can believe an unapproved theory, why can't we?

 

 

And it's ridiculous head-canon, and that's all it will ever be.

 

Nobody said it's canon or uncannon.  I said we don't know yet.

 

 

It's a freakin' kids show. There's no reason to get your jimmies rustled over it.  Just enjoy the masterful programming.

 

Jimmies aren't rustled.  My jimmies are no more rustled than yours.  And I do enjoy it either way.

 

 

Also, people being banished for long periods of time have been in fairy tales/stories for ever. Not sure if this is supporting anything, but I'll throw it out there anyway.

 

Just because two things are similar doesn't make them the same.  And what does this prove in the argument?

 

 

Like I said before, I don't hate Celestia.  I just think that she should have been more creative and less strict in her solution to her sister being rebellious.

Edited July 30, 2013 by John

[~Squishy Skies~ 756]

*stuff*

She's not a manipulator, or an evil tyrant.

 

This isn't an opinion. This is fact.

 

I don't know what show you're watching to get that "information", but it's not the same show I am.

 

You can believe whatever you want, though. It's fan to make-a-believe

[John 793]

She's not a manipulator, or an evil tyrant.

 

This isn't an opinion. This is fact.

 

I don't know what show you're watching to get that "information", but it's not the same show I am.

 

Last time I checked, it was the show "Friendship is Magic" where Celestia Banished her sister to the moon for 1000 years for rebelling against her will.  If you're going to argue that time passes different for her on the moon, you have no evidence to support that claim.  I do, however, have evidence to support the idea that time passes the same for them.  This is due to the fact that, in the show, we see Celestia and Luna live out their lives at a normal pace.

 

Everything's an opinion.  Even thinking that Celestia was always a good ruler.

 

I would also prefer that you don't quote my comment as "stuff" to avoid responding to things you are not able to respond to with a reasonable retort.

 

It's fan to make-a-believe

 

Grammar.

Edited July 30, 2013 by John

[~Squishy Skies~ 756]

-Stuff-

I don't mean to be rude or anything, but it's my personal belief think you're analyzing it terribly. It's a show about candy-colored ponies. No reason to get so upset over something that was completely reasonable.

 

You know what an endless night wold bring to the ponies?

 

It'd bring death.

 

Plants wouldn't be able to use the sun's energy to photosynthesize, and they'd cease producing oxygen. Equestria - Oxygen = Dead Ponies. There'd be many other problems, but I don't feel like explaining them to you when you aren't even going to accept the facts.

 

Also, pointing out my flaws just makes you look like a meanie

Edited July 30, 2013 by Squishy

[John 793]

I don't mean to be rude or anything, but it's my personal belief think you're analyzing it terribly. It's a show about candy-colored ponies. No reason to get so upset over something that was completely reasonable.

 

You know what an endless night wold bring to the ponies?

 

It'd bring death.

 

Plants wouldn't be able to use the sun's energy to photosynthesize, and they'd cease producing oxygen. Equestria - Oxygen = Dead Ponies. There'd be many other problems, but I don't feel like explaining them to you when you aren't even going to except the facts.  You mean "accept" the facts.

Also, pointing out my flaws just makes you look like a meanie

 

So now I'm the one over-analyzing it when you're using biology from our universe to explain life in a world with magic.  Last time I checked, Pinkie Pie violates our laws of Physics and so do Celestia and Luna when they raise the sun/moon.  If our physics isn't the same, (the CORE science of explaining everything about the universe's laws) why would more detailed sciences like biology be the same?

 

And yet you quote my messages as "stuff" to try and avoid the questions aimed at you that you wouldn't be able to respond to anyway, because you were wrong.

 

Pointing out flaws?  I'm not the only one who has done that.

Edited July 30, 2013 by John

[~Squishy Skies~ 756]

-stuff-

*sigh*

 

You are oblivious to reality.

 

I wish the best to you.

 

And yes, I'm bad with homophones. I'm very aware of that. You don't have to but so mean about it.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Squishy

[RrVPfX9cPtw59FpC 1,304]

She wasn't given the name "Trollestia" for nothing. She's done plenty of manipulating things, such as arguably forcing Twilight to become a princess and making Luna apologize after being trapped for years. However, I simply see these as acts of a princess, and.... Sigh... *Distracted by above Gif on first page*

Edited July 31, 2013 by Makusu2

[Zoraxe 546]

Celestia is a manipulator yes, because that's what someone in her position is supposed to do.

 

I dissagree. And Twilight deserves better than that.

 

I don't mean to sound blunt, but these ridiculous, barbaric Celestia theories are nothing short of silly.

 

She's a kind, gentle ruler who knows what's best for her people. There's literally nothing that supports this theory, or the other ridiculous theories such as Celestia being a cruel tyrant.

 

Sometimes, I wonder if some of you people even watch the show.

 

Well, 'Magical Mystery Cure' makes her seem rather controlling and dishonest. She may not be a tyrant to her people. But she is one to Twilight, according to 'MMC' that is.

 

And come on. 1000 years on the moon because your little sister was being rebellious? Seems a little harsh.

 

I dont get it, Luna was trying to destroy the world.

[Mixmaster226 9]

Based on all that was said and done in the final season, yes, she is.

[nightshroud96 124]

On 7/31/2013 at 11:54 AM, Zoraxe said:

I dont get it, Luna was trying to destroy the world.

About two years later, the season 5 finale showed Luna would not destroy the world if she succeeded in taking out as NMM since in Nightmare Moon's timeline, life went on normally pretty much.
Makes sense since it would be redundant to Luna/Nightmare Moon's goals if everyone ends up dying since she wanted her night to be loved and appreciated.
That can't happen if everyone ends up suffering and dying from eternal night. 

On 7/30/2013 at 8:24 PM, hariyaMakusu2 said:

She wasn't given the name "Trollestia" for nothing. She's done plenty of manipulating things, such as arguably forcing Twilight to become a princess and making Luna apologize after being trapped for years. However, I simply see these as acts of a princess, and.... Sigh... *Distracted by above Gif on first page*

Yeah.. Celestia's speech could use some tweaking.
She basically acted like Luna alone was at fault even though I am pretty sure Celestia is at fault too for not being there for Luna and such.
Pretty much both sisters screwed up, not Luna alone.

[Pentium100 2,135]

Yeah, I'd say Celestia is a manipulator who took advantage of Twilight's obsession with trying to live up to the standards others place on her (she was completely terrified of disappointing Celestia in any way for example). It was a rather slow process, but Celestia took a pony who was, essentially, a nerd and an introvert, and made her into a politician. Even worse - remember that Twilight is afraid of others not liking her (or disappointing others)? Well, as a politician, no matter what decision she makes, there will always be some ponies that hate that decision and hate Twilight for it (maybe they would even say that she is a crappy successor etc). 

AFAIK, Twilight never expressed a wish to become a politician. In comparison, her friends all said what their wishes were (Rainbow wanted to join the Wonderbolts etc) and they all got them. I wonder how much time Twilight has for books, since we were shown that normally Celestia's schedule is pretty full...

Then again, maybe Twilight likes helping ponies by making Equestria better, I don't know. I know that if it was me in her place, the series would have gone a different way (and would have been less interesting to watch).

[nightshroud96 124]

8 hours ago, Pentium100 said:

Yeah, I'd say Celestia is a manipulator who took advantage of Twilight's obsession with trying to live up to the standards others place on her (she was completely terrified of disappointing Celestia in any way for example). It was a rather slow process, but Celestia took a pony who was, essentially, a nerd and an introvert, and made her into a politician. Even worse - remember that Twilight is afraid of others not liking her (or disappointing others)? Well, as a politician, no matter what decision she makes, there will always be some ponies that hate that decision and hate Twilight for it (maybe they would even say that she is a crappy successor etc). 

AFAIK, Twilight never expressed a wish to become a politician. In comparison, her friends all said what their wishes were (Rainbow wanted to join the Wonderbolts etc) and they all got them. I wonder how much time Twilight has for books, since we were shown that normally Celestia's schedule is pretty full...

Then again, maybe Twilight likes helping ponies by making Equestria better, I don't know. I know that if it was me in her place, the series would have gone a different way (and would have been less interesting to watch).

I feel like she's already going to deal with some ponies who didn't like how she took the throne from Celestia and Luna like that.
Some being bothered with how Luna didn't rule from much long.  In fact with how things went for the Royal Sisters on their last days as rulers because of Discord's plan, there's going to be problems.

[ZiggWheelsManning 10,654]

Ponies can only assume she learned this manipulation from Chicago, being its crime, violence and corruption there