Why didn't Twilight just make the Breezies temporarily bigger?

[OptimisticNeighsayer 479]

 

Plus, think more pragmatic, the majority of the breezies do not talk Pony, so making them pony will ensure chaos.  Fluttershy would not be able to handle them well (just look her initial interaction with the CMC) and they would want to explore the world in their new bodies because they will have a literal change of perspective. With time being of the essence, this tactic would not have worked out well at all....

I'm not quite buying this, especially the italicized.

 

To the first, Fluttershy and the Breezies never had to communicate much on their trip, and thus the language barrier isn't too much of a problem.

 

Further, what change in perspective?  If it is just a feeling of experiencing the world in a new form, the Mane Six should also have never become Breezies as they would presumably equally want to explore the world in their new bodies because of the change of perspective.  Also, the Breezies seem to be quite familiar enough with the Equestrian territory that they probably wouldn't want to be doing much "exploring" anyway.

[deadprofile 1,123]

I'm not quite buying this, especially the italicized.

 

To the first, Fluttershy and the Breezies never had to communicate much on their trip, and thus the language barrier isn't too much of a problem.

 

Further, what change in perspective?  If it is just a feeling of experiencing the world in a new form, the Mane Six should also have never become Breezies as they would presumably equally want to explore the world in their new bodies because of the change of perspective.  Also, the Breezies seem to be quite familiar enough with the Equestrian territory that they probably wouldn't want to be doing much "exploring" anyway.

 

The Breezies are portrayed as more carefree but "on a mission". This is why they were able to stop what they were doing and basically be okay with Fluttershy waiting on them hand and foot (uhh hoof thing, whatever they have). Because of their more carefree nature, having a 'literal change in perspective' by which I mean size, they would become a toned down version of the Pinkie Clones, wanting to explore the world around them because their carefree nature would point that out to be the most logical outcome if that was to happen.

This presents a communication problem. Even if 1 breezie was to do what I mentioned, and the rest listen to Fluttershy, that one breezie would probably wander off, meet other ponies, but be unable to communicate with them, and the ponies would not know what to make of the breezie. Fluttershy would not be there, thus there is a communication problem....

 

The Mane 6 know and understand what the lead Breezie understands, and thus their knowledge and maturity would overshadow any desire to explore in the breezie world....

[Sobori 46]

Well a growth spell wouldn't work at all, their wings are far to delicate, they would rip.

[OptimisticNeighsayer 479]

The Breezies are portrayed as more carefree but "on a mission". This is why they were able to stop what they were doing and basically be okay with Fluttershy waiting on them hand and foot (uhh hoof thing, whatever they have). Because of their more carefree nature, having a 'literal change in perspective' by which I mean size, they would become a toned down version of the Pinkie Clones, wanting to explore the world around them because their carefree nature would point that out to be the most logical outcome if that was to happen.

This presents a communication problem. Even if 1 breezie was to do what I mentioned, and the rest listen to Fluttershy, that one breezie would probably wander off, meet other ponies, but be unable to communicate with them, and the ponies would not know what to make of the breezie. Fluttershy would not be there, thus there is a communication problem....

 

The Mane 6 know and understand what the lead Breezie understands, and thus their knowledge and maturity would overshadow any desire to explore in the breezie world....

Okay, that's somewhat more plausible, but by the time that Twilight did the transformation spell, I think it was clear that all of the Breezies were serious about getting home.

 

Also, I think that despite the language barrier, other ponies seem to know enough about the nature of the Breezies (and understanding the context of the recent situation) that they would try to help get the Breezie home if the Breezie actually tried to communicate with the other ponies.  And since Breezies are just unable to speak the pony language (they can understand it) resorting to nonverbal cues prompted by the pony language could help the situation.

[deadprofile 1,123]

Okay, that's somewhat more plausible, but by the time that Twilight did the transformation spell, I think it was clear that all of the Breezies were serious about getting home.

 

Also, I think that despite the language barrier, other ponies seem to know enough about the nature of the Breezies (and understanding the context of the recent situation) that they would try to help get the Breezie home if the Breezie actually tried to communicate with the other ponies.  And since Breezies are just unable to speak the pony language (they can understand it) resorting to nonverbal cues prompted by the pony language could help the situation.

Well, this is all within the perimeters of the episode that was presented. within that, as we have seen in the past with Twilight's magic, it's limited to certain variables. And although we can definitely see power progression between Sonic Rainboom and this episode, the spell Twilight used to give Rarity wings is a more subtle version of what she used on the mane 6 turning them to breezies. It would be safe to assume that she can not yet turn 20 or so breezies into full size ponies since that means "growing" them and thus using more magic power as apposed to "shrinking" 6 full size ponies into something smaller (which could use the same magic power per creature depending on your views of Equestrian Magic)

 

I guess I was looking at this topic with the lenses of the possibility of the episode itself playing out differently as how this topic suggests with Fluttershy learning the same message, would thus make the preconceived notions that this episode presents null and void because it would have never happened....

Edited March 4, 2014 by Treble Bolt

[Grumpy Enchantress 587]

Well a growth spell wouldn't work at all, their wings are far to delicate, they would rip.

But it's just a cartoon, though. They wouldn't have to rip because of magic or something.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Grumpy Enchantress

[Sobori 46]

Rarity's wings were magic and they fell apart, she was warned against it too. Twilight magic hasn't changed all that much, it's gotten better but not really changed.

[Grumpy Enchantress 587]

Rarity's wings were magic and they fell apart, she was warned against it too. Twilight magic hasn't changed all that much, it's gotten better but not really changed.

They fell apart after several hours just like Twilight already knew they would. The Breezies just needed to get home, a few hours is fine for them.

[Sobori 46]

We actually have no idea how long that journey took, We knew the hole would close soon but soon could mean 24 hours. Remember it ended with the main six right outside the grotto, they didn't go home after, they very well may have a trek.

[Gyruss 125]

Honestly, I think there's a much simpler explanation than all this arguing.

 

Have you ever done something one way because it was the most obvious way to you at the time (for whatever reason), and then later realized "Oh hey, I suppose I could have just done [other thing] instead?"  Far as I'm concerned, that's really all the explanation you need.  I know that I've made snap decisions before, only to think of another way later.  This is doubly so when under duress of a time limit.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Gyruss

[FNGRpony 658]

.....G.E.  this was clearly your smartest post.  hands down.  they didn't because grumpy enchantress is smarter than twilight LOL.

but all goofing off aside, it never occurred to me.

[Forlong 1,726]

 

I never thought about that.  I did think that Twilight could have done better.  Like, say, not using one of the pegasi needed to create the breeze.  Or how about doing it to about 30 ponies and get another swarm going?

[GrimCW 658]

Twilight didn't know shit about their internal conflict

Didn't she? Twilight is infamous for her studying all things, not just magic. She lives in a library for crying out loud!

Either way, twilight has also already learned that doing things the way they're meant to be done is just sometimes how it needs to be done.

Winter Wrap Up gave her a good hard lesson in that. Tradition doesn't need to make sense, nor be more effective, it just is because it is. And most would prefer it stay that way regardless of consequences.

 

Also turning into breezies, and going with them, was another learning experience. And likely one she didn't want to pass up.

Edited March 5, 2014 by GrimCW

[Grumpy Enchantress 587]

Didn't she? Twilight is infamous for her studying all things, not just magic. She lives in a library for crying out loud!

She didn't even know their language.

 

Either way, twilight has also already learned that doing things the way they're meant to be done is just sometimes how it needs to be done.

Winter Wrap Up gave her a good hard lesson in that. Tradition doesn't need to make sense, nor be more effective, it just is because it is. And most would prefer it stay that way regardless of consequences.

That's a really horrible lesson that isn't even applicable here. Sometimes tradition is just wrong and ineffective and you have to change! Plus, this isn't even a tradition. They do it this way because they have no choice, they don't say "Man, I really would grow bigger to lessen the chance that I'll fucking die but nah, that's not how my ancestors did it." They've never had a choice but Twilight could give it to them! It has nothing to do with tradition and even if it did, it would be wrong if it's the objectively worse way and it's not an opinion that it's wrong to hold to it if they're all going to die! Sometimes you just have to deal to prevent negative consequences and it's a horrible lesson for Twilight to say you have to hold to shitty traditions that will get you killed. It wasn't even a tradition, though.

 

On a real life level, how do you expect anyone to ever improve on anything if they stick that strongly to tradition? A little tradition is harmless and nice but if there's a better way to do it and it's important enough that you not only could die but could die like really quickly, you need to move on to the better solution.

 

Also turning into breezies, and going with them, was another learning experience. And likely one she didn't want to pass up.

 

Too bad for her if she's risking the Breezies life.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Grumpy Enchantress

[GrimCW 658]

She didn't even know their language.

Point? She doesn't need to know their language to study them in books written in her own language.

She doesn't know Zecora's language either, but she knows about zebra's.

 

 

 

A little tradition is harmless and nice but if there's a better way to do it and it's important enough that you not only could die but could die like really quickly, you need to move on to the better solution.

 

This tradition wasn't exactly little to them, and again, if they became dependent on twilight being there, than it would be a HUGE problem that could wipe out their species.  And you said it yourself, they have no choice.

And this tradition is their way of life, its their existence, and how they've functioned forever. They cannot change it for convenience, and shouldn't when that convenience is far to reliant on things (or ponies) that they can't rely on being available when they need it/them, let alone forever. Again, if twilight were ever unavailable during their journey, they wouldn't stand a chance of getting the pollen home as needed. And its already known that Twilight has the most diverse magical ability of any other character so far shown (even Celestia and Luna haven't been shown to be nearly as diverse in their own abilities)

So no Twilight = no more breezies if she begins to interfere as such.

 

Fluttershy also explains that the breeze created by the pegasi (which are in abundance, where Twilight is only one of an extreme few) is needed to activate the breezies magic, and protects the pollen. If they were simply made big, they wouldn't get the breeze and they wouldn't get their magic. No magic = destroyed pollen = loss of life.

 

 

Theres also the problem of whether or not Twilights spell could even work on the breezies to be considered.

The spells are tuned for PONIES, and may not even work on the breezies. 

 

 

 

Too bad for her if she's risking the Breezies life.

In far less a way than if she had just turned them into large ponies. The variables and risks to the pollen the breezies needed, the door, the effect of the magic on a species it wasn't designed for, etc... 

 

End all being also maybe without knowing it, Twilight knew it had to be done as such. The "key" fluttershy got after all could not have been received if they'd simply gotten to the door and never within.

Edited March 5, 2014 by GrimCW

[Grumpy Enchantress 587]

Point? She doesn't need to know their language to study them in books written in her own language.

She doesn't know Zecora's language either, but she knows about zebra's.

And her books would tell her that this particular group of Breezies are lazy and don't want to work all except Seabreeze who's in the right but kind of a dick about it?

 

This tradition wasn't exactly little to them, and again, if they became dependent on twilight being there, than it would be a HUGE problem that could wipe out their species. And you said it yourself, they have no choice.

You're using tradition in the loosest possible use here if you're saying their way of life that they have to do to survive at all is their "tradition" and important to them in the same way not using magic for Winter Wrap Up. In the specific case here it would have made more sense to grow them from Twilight's point of view because she shouldn't know shit about how experienced they are and the main point is the specific fact that they had such limited time because Fluttershy wasn't making them go when they needed to. This would be quicker!

 

And this tradition is their way of life, its their existence, and how they've functioned forever. They cannot change it for convenience, and shouldn't when that convenience is far to reliant on things (or ponies) that they can't rely on being available when they need it/them, let alone forever. Again, if twilight were ever unavailable during their journey, they wouldn't stand a chance of getting the pollen home as needed. And its already known that Twilight has the most diverse magical ability of any other character so far shown (even Celestia and Luna haven't been shown to be nearly as diverse in their own abilities)

So no Twilight = no more breezies if she begins to interfere as such.

Bullshit, Twilight knows nothing about them or how much experience they need, all she knows is they NEED to get home as quick as possible and she needs to use a spell to do that.

 

Fluttershy also explains that the breeze created by the pegasi (which are in abundance, where Twilight is only one of an extreme few) is needed to activate the breezies magic, and protects the pollen. If they were simply made big, they wouldn't get the breeze and they wouldn't get their magic. No magic = destroyed pollen = loss of life.

See the thing about that is they could obviously get more pegasi then the amount the got and the Breezies handle a much bigger breeze if they were bigger, obviously. They could just get a fucking fan or something and attach it to their backs if they were big enough.

 

Theres also the problem of whether or not Twilights spell could even work on the breezies to be considered.

The spells are tuned for PONIES, and may not even work on the breezies.

She gave Spike a moustache.

 

In far less a way than if she had just turned them into large ponies. The variables and risks to the pollen the breezies needed, the door, the effect of the magic on a species it wasn't designed for, etc...

I don't buy it. All the reasons they couldn't do it sound like bad excuses and horrible writing (even the ones given in the episode.) You know the Mane 6 Breezies were all about the m0n3y and toyz they just needed some excuse. Edited March 5, 2014 by Grumpy Enchantress

[GrimCW 658]

from Twilight's point of view because she shouldn't know shit about how experienced they are

 

Seabreeze made it very clear they were an inexperienced bunch.

 

 

 

Bullshit, Twilight knows nothing about them or how much experience they need, all she knows is they NEED to get home as quick as possible and she needs to use a spell to do that.

 

Thats not twilights character to go into things without knowing more, or wanting to learn more.

She's always sticking her face in books simply to learn random things. When something new pops up, she often jumps in to learn about that specific item more.  Hell, she's even put herself in serious risk, knowingly, just to study new things. I.E. Pinkie sense

 

 

 

They could just get a fucking fan or something and attach it to their backs if they were big enough.

 

given the "magical" nature of the ponies, it may be the pegasi's own special breeze that makes the breezies magic work. Otherwise I'm sure the same could be said for the funnel needed to send water to Clouds dale.  After all, only a pegasus, or half pegasus, can naturally stand on clouds. 

 

 

 

She gave Spike a moustache.

After long practice, and mention of a lot of botch ups, to the point even spike was scared at first.

 

 

 

You know the Mane 6 Breezies were all about the m0n3y and toyz they just needed some excuse.

 

Thats literally the entire show in its existence, and entirely moot as a result.

If it weren't for making money, this show wouldn't exist at all, let alone any show. 

Edited March 5, 2014 by GrimCW

[Gyruss 125]

I said it before and I'll say it again.  If you want an in-universe explanation, you don't have to look any further than "It seemed like the most obvious choice to Twilight at the time."  I don't get why that concept's hard to accept - then again I noticed you flat out ignored my post on the matter because you'd rather try to argue for other reasons.

Could things have gone differently?  Sure.  Things can be done differently or go differently all the time in real life, and the results of what you do in the past can't really be altered.  Would it be possible to do it a "better" - and please note I use that term loosely because I think your suggestion is arguable - if given another opportunity?  Maybe, but talking about the past doesn't change the past.

By the way, I find the idea of "strapping fans to their backs" to be a bit ludicrous.  Seriously, that just seems to be overcomplicating things.  I know you're trying to argue against the pollen thing, but I honestly think that idea sounds utterly goofy.

[FNGRpony 658]

Didn't she? Twilight is infamous for her studying all things, not just magic. She lives in a library for crying out loud!

Either way, twilight has also already learned that doing things the way they're meant to be done is just sometimes how it needs to be done.

Winter Wrap Up gave her a good hard lesson in that. Tradition doesn't need to make sense, nor be more effective, it just is because it is. And most would prefer it stay that way regardless of consequences.

 

Also turning into breezies, and going with them, was another learning experience. And likely one she didn't want to pass up.

No, no she didn't or else twilight might have known breezies might even have a capacity to act like they did minus sea breeze.

Twilight clearly went with flutter shy with out a different view because she didn't have one.

 

She spent her time that could have been studing the breezies budding it up with her sister in law.

Which truth be told,

from a princess stand point seemed like a better use of time.

 

Diplomatic relations and family relations vs

 

A in effective race that could be left to its own devices it naturally die out.

 

Naturally die out.  you know that thing flutter shy lawds over?  nature?  natural selection?