Predestination in Equestra? (Theory)

[Navi 39]

What is Predestination? This term is oftin used religously, and it's definition is "The divine foreordaining of all that will happen, especially with regard to the salvation of some and not others." This basically means that everything in the universe is planned out, and your destiny is already written for you.

 

I think this ties into Friendship is Magic PERFECTLY.

 

Point A. The names! I mean, for example "Rarity," it seems like her name complements her talent, even though her talent was found after she was named, obviously. "Rarity" means an item that is rare, which has to do with her talent, finding gems (they are rare). I mean, what if her talent was I don't know, competitive swimming? However there are some holes in this, like the fact that Applejack's Aunt Orange, has absolutely nothing to do with oranges, and I think they just put that in there as a pun.

 

Point B. May I refresh your memory here? Remember in the very begining of episode 1, that it stated 1000 years later on the day Luna was imprisoned on the moon, she would escape? Well my question is, how do they know this?

 

Point C. The episode Cutiemark Cronicles! This episode is a prime example of predestination. The definition of predestination mentions "especially to the regard to the salvation of some and not others." So Rainbow Dash's sonic rainboom wasn't just by chance, but it was intended to happen, and determine the events that went around it. And if this never happened? We can only assume the worst. I don't think Pinkie Pie was cut out to be a rock farmer in the first place, if you ask me.

 

So what do you think of my theory? Is there any evidance I missed? Please tell!

[Kel_Grym 1,917]

Nightsphere the Gnostic has a youtube channel in which he discusses a lot of philosophical concepts and how they relate to the show. He did one specifically on predestination and cutiemarks.

 

You should check it out.

[Navi 39]

Nightsphere the Gnostic has a youtube channel in which he discusses a lot of philosophical concepts and how they relate to the show. He did one specifically on predestination and cutiemarks.

 

You should check it out.

Oh, I'm not subscribed to that channel. I'll look it up now though.

[Ianpiersonjdavis 513]

I think 'Magical Mystery Cure' pretty much confirmed that the ponies are more or less slaves to their respective destinies, regardless of what actually makes them happy...which makes it seem as if free will in pony society is more or less just an illusion. 

[silvadel 1,393]

Point 1:  I think Rarity actually changed her name to that for the purposes of popularity for her dresses/fashion. 

 

Point 2: The spell was going to run out in 1000 years.  Luna was not exactly going to just stay on the moon when it did.

 

Point 3: They were not the only ponies that were affected.  They just happened to be of cutie mark age and it helped.  I am sure many other ponies gained cutie marks at that time when inspired by or fluxed by the rainboom.

I think 'Magical Mystery Cure' pretty much confirmed that the ponies are more or less slaves to their respective destinies, regardless of what actually makes them happy...which makes it seem as if free will in pony society is more or less just an illusion. 

 

Generally a pony's cutie mark will NOT be in something they will hate.  In the case of the enforced new destinies there, it was more a magical brainwashing that happened.  The SPELL changed what the ponies perceived was what they should do making them think they always did that and suppressing their inclinations to do their real talents.  If it actually changed their destinies then they would have been better at their new roles and/or wouldn't have taken to a simple push to do what they used to do.

 

Technically I think they would have eventually figured themselves out even without the aid of Twilight's spell.  It just would have taken far longer.  I mean Fluttershy was already headed back to Cloudsdale.  She would have drifted around a bunch of other things until she ended up in a situation where she had to deal with animals.  She would have found herself good at it.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

Point A. The names! I mean, for example "Rarity," it seems like her name complements her talent, even though her talent was found after she was named, obviously. "Rarity" means an item that is rare, which has to do with her talent, finding gems (they are rare). I mean, what if her talent was I don't know, competitive swimming? However there are some holes in this, like the fact that Applejack's Aunt Orange, has absolutely nothing to do with oranges, and I think they just put that in there as a pun.

Actually, that can easily be a coincidence because, as you said, her talent was found after she was named. While her name fits her talent perfectly, it's also a very pretty name and one that I can see being used for a girl, given Equestrian naming customs

 

Other than that, I can see where you're coming from. I can't really sway one way or the other yet, given I haven't really thought about this before. I'll have to think about it some

 

 

 

Point 1:  I think Rarity actually changed her name to that for the purposes of popularity for her dresses/fashion. 

Well, she was referred to as Rarity during her cutie mark flashback scene that showed her as a filly

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YromwleFZaE

Edited May 28, 2014 by ghostfacekiller39

[silvadel 1,393]

Actually, that can easily be a coincidence because, as you said, her talent was found after she was named. While her name fits her talent perfectly, it's also a very pretty name and one that I can see being used for a girl, given Equestrian naming customs

 

Other than that, I can see where you're coming from. I can't really sway one way or the other yet, given I haven't really thought about this before. I'll have to think about it some

 

 

 

Well, she was referred to as Rarity during her cutie mark flashback scene that showed her as a filly

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YromwleFZaE

 

 

She was already into fashion at that point -- I am postulating that the name change happened not all that long before that scene.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

She was already into fashion at that point -- I am postulating that the name change happened not all that long before that scene.

The thing is, you said it yourself:

 

 

 

Point 1:  I think Rarity actually changed her name to that for the purposes of popularity for her dresses/fashion. 

She really wouldn't have a need to promote herself through popularity until she started her own business - which she was far too young to be running the Carousel Boutique at that age, given she was just a school filly who was a blank flank herself.

 

Furthermore, while popularity does have a great importance to her, she doesn't place it before things like tradition and friendship or what not - I'm sure that she would've kept her birth name regardless of what it was, even if it was ugly

All she'd do in that scenario would be whine complain about it

 

[Navi 39]

She was already into fashion at that point -- I am postulating that the name change happened not all that long before that scene.

I strongly doubt the idea of name change even exists in Equestria. I mean, besides, would EVERYPONY have o change their names to go with there talents then?

[Orablanco Account 3,707]

Meh, I don't like it. Whether it's supported by the show or not, I don't like the idea of everything being "meant to happen" and predetermined from the very beginning. It's boring from a narrative perspective. 

[Jeric 46,863]

Mmmm. I don't completely disagree, but predestination is only half the equation.

 

While I think that the show touches on predestination, it sure puts a lot of emphasis on free will through desisions and learning. That is the foundation that the show is formed on. Yes there exists a subtle dichotomy in the show concerning destiny and choice ... ... but for each moment that the show demonstrates a force that is pulling the characters in one direction, it also highlights a moment that the characters face a decision or test.

 

Cutie Marks and Even cultural elements that we take for granted are thrown aside on occasion. Fluttershy and Pinkie by nature our figurative outcasts from their respective conditioning. Fluttershy isn't a strong flyer, and prefers the ground to the clouds. Pinkie's conditioning is completely counter to her talent and her element. Each test requires the character to learn and practice ... to grow. Each moment builds the character to something greater. It's the classic Heroes Journey where the character is changed from the person he or she was at the beginning.

 

I also don't want to hear about MMC since that is open to debate. It forgets that job does not equal talent or element (Rarity as a dress maker was prior to both her talent AND her Element being discovered -- though her talen complimented her artistic nature, Rainbow is competitive and loyal ... not Cobra Commander with the Weather Dominator, etc). I have to simply chaulk that up to bad bad magic that didn't work well to begin with. I know that everyone was all freaking out about the the Twilacorngate ... but that was the real failure in the show.

 

I'm rambling ... but basically the show is pulling a Forrest Gump. Destiny and Free Will are in play simultaneously. The force that is guiding the journey is setting the stage, but it's up to the players to learn the lines and play their part. They have the option to rage quit if they so desire.

 

I now leave this metaphor and analogy riddled post and return you all to the normally scheduled 'sense-making' users.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Jeric

[Kel_Grym 1,917]

Personally, I like the head canon that ponies don't get their names until they get their cutiemarks, but it's not supported in the show at all.

 

As a Determinist though, I'm not really that upset with the predestination thing in MLP.

[Corpulent Brony 41]

When you start walking down the predestination road, it leads only to despair and tragedy.  If you were aware your life was predestined, then all ambition would perforce be purloined from everypony in perpetuity.  There'd no longer be any reason to wake up and do anything, because, after all, nothing you do would matter.

 

To the OPs original points:

 

As regards names, I have some theories on that which I was saving for a future analysis video, but briefly I believe it may be customary for most unicorns to change their names once their cutie mark reveals itself.  Thus Rarity may not have been Rarity before receiving her cutie mark.  I know the big hole there is that in the flashback from Cutie Mark Chronicles, Rarity is called "Rarity," by her teacher I believe.  But I keep in mind that this is a story Rarity is telling to others, to use her old name with which I am sure none of the CMC are familiar would just cause confusion.  Thus the flashback scenes were non-diegetic (heh).  Or Rarity may simply have changed her name because she wished to distance herself from her parents (Sisterhoove's Social).

 

Story and legend pervade our culture and, I am sure, the culture of Equestria.  The fact legend stated the Mare in the Moon would escape in 1,000 years is immaterial, how does Twilight even know exactly a thousand years have elapsed?  Today, in most of Western culture, the birth of a man about 2,000 years ago is commonly celebrated, but the exact date of his birth is not known, as the facts have been clouded through the mists of time.  Surely the same could be said of the exact date Celestia imprisoned Luna?  The only one who may answer this is Celestia herself.

 

The story of the Cutie Mark Chronicles is just a happy coincidence, not necessarily fate.  Just because the appearance of the mane six's cutie marks shared an origin does not necessarily mean it was preordained, rather it could have easily been some strange sort of non-deterministic form of fate that fueled our fillys' friendships.

 

It's a great question to ask, and one which is fun to examine.

[Old_Gray_Mare 8]

Not necessarily, Corp. I mean, ask any Calvinist or neoCalvinist whether predestination* means you don't need to evangelize.

(*NB predestination, in Calvinism, doesn't necessarily mean *all* events are predetermined. But still.)

[Yellow Diamond 7,575]

If we use the term "predestination", we may assume then that a particular outcome will occur regardless of the actions of the certain agencies. In theological parlance, predestination should be distinguished from double predestination, the latter of which refers to all people being predestined either for salvation (the elect) or damnation (the reprobate). Predestination encompasses only those who are eternally saved, not those who may be eternally damned. Most mainline Christians will espouse predestination; Calvinism trends toward double predestination, though you will find many in the Reformed tradition (e.g., Karl Barth) who do not hold for double predestination.

 

This theological aside is helpful for understanding the use of predestination as it applies to Equestria. Broadly speaking, there does seem to be some sort of irrevocable destiny for every pony -- hence the existence of cutie marks and latent skills associated with those talents found even in "blank flanks." I hesitate to apply "predestination" because of the theological overtones; but if it is meant to imply that all ponies eventually discover a particular talent, then I would agree that such is the case. "Destiny" is probably the better term, as it is used quite frequently in the show. Throughout the show's history, nopony has ever denied or refused their destiny when confronted with it. The Cutie Mark Crusaders may not embrace their natural talents, but that appears to hinge more on tunnel vision and their obliviousness as opposed to refusing to follow their skills.

 

But could Twilight, for example, have refused Celestia's offer to fulfill her destiny? I'm not so sure she could. The most by way of diverging from the cosmic plan, so to speak, are events such as Luna's transformation into Night Mare Moon -- but even then there was an eventual reconciliation. Based on what we know so far, destinies cannot be delayed indefinitely; sooner or later, you'll need to follow a path determined by your skills. "Magical Mystery Cure" demonstrated how even ponies with improper cutie marks were beholden to their destinies, even if they were improperly implied. One wonders if there are ever ponies who effectively end up with incorrect cutie marks; however, Twilight's spell in "Magical Mystery Cure" and its aftermath were treated as complete breaks from the norm. Whatever talent and/or destiny is bestowed upon a pony, they are naturally inclined to pursue and enjoy the associated activities.

 

 

Point B. May I refresh your memory here? Remember in the very begining of episode 1, that it stated 1000 years later on the day Luna was imprisoned on the moon, she would escape? Well my question is, how do they know this?

 

It's largely treated as a legend by most ponies. There's no explanation apart from ambiguous assertion that the stars would aid in her escape. Celestia recognized the impending danger in some fashion, prompting her to send Twilight to Ponyville to make friends. She even mentions that she knew Twilight possessed the magic to defeat Night Mare Moon. How she precisely knew this is a mystery.