Yufery

Haha, honestly, fair enough, you're right there. Though as I said, I hadn't meant to imply that, so I do honestly apologize that I came off that way. Well, I'm glad to see that the debate, or at least that specific portion of it, ended well, then! (Though I'm not sure if it's over yet so I'd rather not give closure by chance it isn't )

You treated it as if I flat out said it. But, granted, since I admitted I didn't mean to come across that way, it doesn't really matter overall. That's exactly what I said, at least in meaning; you just worded it differently. But, again, it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of the debate. Anyway, as I said in my previous point, this wasn't what I was trying to get across. I was saying that the way Trixie handled Snips & Snails helps show she's just an egotistical pony, given that she continued to refer to herself rather highly. You completely misunderstood the point I was trying to get across there. The reason I brought that point up is because Trixie flat out SAID that she only lied about the Ursa Major to make herself look better. I never said that it was bad that she lied.

Just because a wacky character has down to earth moments doesn't mean that when they're wacky they're 'playing a character.' For instance, Pinkie Pie has had several down to earth moments throughout the series even though she's incredibly hyperactive. Trixie is the same during the more serious bits of her episode. I can see your point here, however I'd still continue to argue that the introduction is the most important part, at least among them. Though, even after that, I'd say the episode's pacing could suffer if they spent longer dwelling on Trixie's boasting. Granted, if done right, it couldn't have hurt, but as the episode stands now, I personally would say that it's fine. I've already listed the proof beforehand in this thread. To summarize, however, it's an inference I made using Trixie's actions throughout the episode, and I came to the conclusion that she's just doing it to boast. I went into way more detail when I listed it beforehand. I never said she didn't have that right; I said she should expect it. I'm sure she doesn't want to be bothered by fans at every moment of the day, but if she's going to do something that could build herself a fanbase, she should expect it. Though, I do apologize if you got that from what I said, since I hadn't meant to draw you to that. In regards to your Weird Al point and the following one, and I do mean this in the nicest way possible, but did you read the point I made about her being a show performer to fuel her ego? From these arguments, it seems like you skimmed over it and just looked for anything that you could counter, even though you're countering points I never made? For instance, for your Weird Al point, you made it seem like I made a claim that show performers are egotistical for not wanting fans with them out in public all the time, even though I never once said that. The same applies to your point about Trixie lying. I never once said that it was bad that Trixie lied, nor did I imply it. It seems to me like you're just looking for something you could argue against. I could be wrong, and chances are I am, since you have been bringing up some good arguments, however in regards to those two they do fall flat in regards to this discussion. As I said prior, Trixie isn't the greatest. She may have some degree of skill, yes, however she isn't the greatest like she claims. She still never lived up to the expectations she set for herself, even if she showed off some talent by besting the M3. As for the second point in that final sentence, I addressed it prior.

Okay, I'll give you that much, I could see a couple lines being tossed around that way, but even then they still could do that now regardless of their schedule. They could just say, use it to hype up their next trick. They really don't have any reason to get into a full on argument/conflict with their audience like Trixie did. She isn't playing a character; if she is, then she never stops. This is supported how in Magic Duel (S3) and No Second Prances (S6) she continuously refers to herself in the third person and as The Great and Powerful Trixie. Perhaps later on it dies down as she develops as a character (and how she wasn't even herself during most of Magic Duel), but the point still stands that this is just how she acts as a pony. She still hyped herself up to be the greatest and most magical unicorn there is. It's not even just an act; she genuinely gave off that impression when she was offstage. She didn't live up to the expectations. Yes, she did perform some decent magic while facing off against the M3, but beforehand there wasn't anything to go off of to show that she was talented. And while maybe they did start complaining at the start, she still didn't really start off with anything impressive, rather just with gloating. If she was just a show performer, perhaps it'd be different, but she just did the whole show to fuel her ego. I personally, quite frankly, could see how the M3+Spike would be annoyed at her at the start, and especially gain it later on. Plus, she interrupted her own show when she addressed their criticisms. So while they may have started to complain early on, I could see how given that she was gloating from the start while not doing any sort of impressive spell as an introduction, save for flashy fireworks. Not to mention how she paused her own show. She does have that right, but you miss my point entirely. I didn't bring that up to debate if she has a right to be pestered, I brought it up to support how she's just a show performer to fuel her own ego. Your point implied that I made the claim it's bad that show performers lie. What I exactly said was, "What further supports this is when she later admits to making up the story about the Ursa Major, and how it was just for show." I never debated the morality of the lying (which I don't think it's too big of a deal for show performers to fib here and there. As stated prior, constant gloating with only sub-par results (as Trixie did before the challenge) can be annoying, but if they just make up a lie to fuel the hype while they perform interesting tricks, I don't see it as a big deal), rather I just brought up the argument to support my argument (did I mention argument?) that she was just fueling her own ego.

In that point, I didn't even refer to magicians. I just said show performers as a general standpoint. Plus, you're saying Trixie is able to while they can't, due to their more scheduled approach to a show. You then continue to say that if they could, they would. But why would they? For comedians I understand, as their main focus is comedy, and generally it doesn't matter where it comes from, but why would magicians? They wouldn't have anything to prove, since most folk don't know how to perform the illusions they do, and I don't think they could make any good jokes. Perhaps there are some that could, but I can't imagine most are all amazing jokesters. I actually addressed this point in the original video. What I said was roughly that, in Trixie's case, it was how she acted all throughout, even when she wasn't on stage. This is even further supported by her later episodes. Even besides that, it could be seen as fairly agitating, especially when they don't provide any good performances to live up to their hype. You could say Trixie did when she challenged the M3 to showcase their abilities, however this wasn't the root of their arguments. You could argue she debunked the complaints that she doesn't have talented magic, but this is countered when she tried her hand at defeating the Ursa Minor. If she built up the hype for herself, she should expect it. If she doesn't want to be bothered, she could just head into her house, or anywhere that isn't out in the open. Plus, the way she handled the fans is really what sets the argument, as she refers to herself in a high manner when dealing with them, supporting my point. You misunderstand why I mentioned that. It's not because I said performers lying is a bad thing, it's because I used it to further validate how she was only doing the whole thing to boost her ego.

Ah, my apologies, I must've read it wrong then, since you were just stating how Trixie just has the ability to perform magic more easily while magicians don't have it. Oh well She looks unprofessional because she broke from her performance routine to have challenges and conflicts with the audience. The majority of show performers, at least ones that aren't comedians but showcase a talent, would likely just shrug off the complaints, especially if it's only from a small portion of the crowd. Trixie chooses to call them out and let the following events ensue, making her look even worse than she did beforehand. Well, while it was never directly stated, I'd say it's fair to make that inference. Throughout the episode, she continuously boasted about her talent, even when she wasn't on stage. She seemed disinterested in fans like Snips & Snails, which further leads me to that conclusion. If she were doing it to entertain them, she would've probably had a bit of fun with them. You could argue that she's a performer, and that she likely was just exhausted, however bare in mind it's not as if she's famous across Equestria, and how she was out in the open as well. It's not like they came banging on her door in her personal time. What further supports this is when she later admits to making up the story about the Ursa Major, and how it was just for show. If you put all of these together, then I'd say it's safe to assume she's doing this for her own ego.

That's how I interpreted your argument. If you meant something different, then please do elaborate on it. I can understand that point of providing better content with challenging the M3, and while I do agree with it being more interesting, it still makes her look rather unprofessional and just bad overall since she could've easily avoided getting into a conflict with them, as I stated prior. (This is relevent : http://i.imgur.com/EQRdrnr.jpg) Haha, but in all seriousness, no doubt she was definitely doing both, though the latter of which seemed more unintentional to me. To be fair, she never had the idea of entertainment be in her mind to begin with. If she was making money off of this, I could understand, but it's a free show that anypony could just walk up to and see. She just did the whole thing with the idea of bragging and boosting her ego in mind. This is evident throughout the episode.

I should point out that in the first portion of the debate, we seen to have gone astray from the original topic. But anyway, going back to what it was originally about, you're saying that she is justified in going away from her performance because she has the ability to? I suppose I could see how you would interpret it as that, however what I'm trying to get across is that, even though the outcome was good, Trixie isn't exactly in the good here since she broke away from her performance. As you stated in another point following, she may have changed it, but she changed it just so she could argue with and challenge the abilities of others to boost her own ego. No matter what way you look at it, her motives in all this were just to make herself look better. The protagonists were just annoyed at this and expressed it in various ways among themselves. Trixie addressed this which caused the eventual conflict of the episode to unfurl. If she had focused on providing a more quality performance from the start and refrained from boasting, it would have turned out good, but since she only did the show for the sake of her ego, the events unfolded. My point is, is that she focused on a small portion of the audience to fight with instead of focusing on just entertaining the rest. She just wanted to prove herself to be better than others, in the end. It's where this all boils down to, after all.

Not really. At least, not when the criticisms come to play. I could see that argument for when she beat the M3 in challenges, but beforehand and even afterwards she just produced sub-par magic. I'd say that the criticisms towards her being a mediocre show-pony still apply. But, the topic-change aside, my point is that she really shouldn't have called them out. She's a magician, not a comedian. Yeah, as I said before, it seems a bit of an overstretch to use, but it is appropriate and I see why you do use it to describe the M3 and Spike's actions. There's plenty of magicians that can break away from their performance and do acts off of a whim. Plus, I'd imagine that Trixie also planned out what magic tricks to perform. By your logic, she's just doing random ones off the top of her head, though I don't think she did this. I'd wager she still had some sort of a formula. And the more I think about it, comedians do as well. Most of the ones I've seen have humorous stories to tell, and chances are they prepare these stories and think of how to present them. I'd imagine even ones that do things like stand-up comedy or ones that have audience interaction plan it out to some degree. Plus, as stated prior, she isn't a comedian. Sure, she might have more freedom with her magic than magicians in our world, but at the end of the day she isn't exactly perfect in this scenario. She broke away from her original performance to argue with members of the audience. While it may have turned out enjoyable, she still started it by responding to them when she could have just as easily ignored them and showed some more impressive magic. You could say that she has every right to respond to the audience's criticisms, but it's a small portion that criticized her. Plus, they never flat out stopped the performance, either, they just verbally expressed their dislike for her actions. She was the one who stopped her performance, and really she shouldn't have in the first place, since I wouldn't think a good magician would have a good portion of their act be filled with boasting and arguing with the audience. As much as I may like Trixie, she isn't good at being a show performer.

She's not a comedian; she's a magician. They're doing different types of entertainment with different goals and different things to expect. As far as I know, most magicians don't interrupt their performance to argue with the audience. Yes, I understand your argument, and I countered it. Your argument was that because Trixie doesn't go through as much preparation as a magician in our world, it gives her an excuse to interrupt her own show because she doesn't have as much of a process to go through. I responded by saying, "Just because the magic comes from different sources doesn't excuse Trixie. She interrupted her own show to respond to displeased audience members, not to mention only four of them out of a rather large crowd. From the seems of it, she had a planned out show, but she stopped it to have fights with the audience members." I feel like you may be the one who misunderstand my argument. You love to throw around the word 'hecklers' a lot, huh? Anyway, criticism is defined as "the expression of disapproval of someone or something based on perceived faults or mistakes," which is an appropriate term. I'd say heckler is a bit over an overstretch in this situation if anything, but it works for your argument. As for your second argument, she isn't a comedian, as stated prior. Magicians go along with their planned acts and just put on a fun time with only volunteered audience interaction. If they get boo'd, they shrug it off and continue their act. They aren't comedians; there's different standards for them. Magicians don't interrupt their own performances because they have different acts planned (I can imagine Trixie had some as well). Comedians tend to go off the top of their head thus creating raw and original jokes. They both may be performers but they do things differently, and while perhaps one doing it differently isn't bad in itself, I'd say that Trixie going a more comedian-esque route isn't executed well on her part (but not the episode's! ) Family-friendly is just a kinder way of saying kids show. They both, in the end, mean the same thing, so it really doesn't matter what term you use. As for the justification, I knew someone would interpret it this way. Funny enough, I actually added that point to the start of my counterargument not as an attempt to drop the whole discussion (if I did that would be hypocritical) but rather just to try to calm the other party down. There's no real reason to get angry over a TV show about brightly colored horses, after all. No one likes to feel anger, either. As for the heavily flawed basis, well that's subjective my friend

Implying that regular performers don't get bothered when they hear people in the audience booing them? Just because it's slightly agitating doesn't mean she should interrupt her own show. Yes, and I countered your argument by explaining how just because magic takes more preparation in our world than Equestria doesn't mean she should interrupt her own show to argue with them. Sure, it might've turned out good, but what the issue is, is that Trixie isn't exactly a goddess here. She started this whole debacle just because she herself couldn't keep her pride down (remember when @CJPony said that line about the M3?) and how she couldn't just ignore the criticism. She had to come out above them, she couldn't just let the criticism go by. She's a show performer; she should just be performing her act for the entertainment of others, and them move on to another town. Instead she just wants to fuel her own ego.

I could understand your point there, though I'd continue to argue that they weren't bothering anyone else. They were speaking at normal volume, appearing not to bother anyone else, since they didn't have all eyes on them. You could say that Dash was speaking far above that when she boo'd Trixie, which is fair enough, but I don't think that a single boo is enough to bother the entire audience, or to justify Trixie stopping her entire show. Just because the magic comes from different sources doesn't excuse Trixie. She interrupted her own show to respond to displeased audience members, not to mention only four of them out of a rather large crowd. From the seems of it, she had a planned out show, but she stopped it to have fights with the audience members.

Before I die, I want to get into a brony cringe compilation.

Haha, you're right, I must've missed that. Though, I could argue multiple things for that. Trixie ran off, which gives off the implication she has somewhere to go. She never asked for help either, she had every opportunity then to say that she lost everything, but she didn't say anything. No one could have known it was all she had. I can guarantee that if she said she lost everything due to that, Twilight would have offered her help in every sense of the word. Perhaps she would've taught her a lesson about boasting, but I know that Trixie still would've gotten help. As for Magic Duel, to be fair there wasn't much time to focus on Trixie's sad past since she was trying to battle Twilight, and not to mention how she eventually banished Twi form Ponyville. In your second and third points, you're trying to justify Trixie by saying that she never said she was better than anyone. Even though in the lines you listed, it's basically saying that she's the best. It's just worded differently. Like it or not, Trixie considers (or at least considered in that episode) herself better than the other ponies and wasn't afraid to show it. When the M3 were complaining among themselves, Trixie addressed it. I'd wager this is what triggered Dash to come up to her in the first place. If Trixie just ignored them and went on with her show, since they were only four members of a rather large audience, then chances are this whole scenario would've been avoided. They would've probably still been complaining, yes, and perhaps the occasional boo as Dash did, but the performance would've been uninterrupted. You could say they triggered it with the complaining, however I'd argue that audience members do have a right to express their dissatisfaction with the performance verbally. You could also argue that Trixie responding is a thing normal performers do, though I'd argue that it's mostly what comedians do. Magicians tend to go along with their planned act and, as far as I know, they ignore any boos they may get and continue along with their performance. Haha, I can understand that, I like her as well. I feel similarly, but with MLP as a whole, in that I do want to try to have some sort of solid counterargument towards criticisms I disagree with. Though I should point out that it is important to consider all sides of a debate. I'm not saying you don't, since you definitely seem to be as of now, I'd just figure I would throw that out there .

I'd say that it's implied there were more tricks done off screen besides that. And while it may be the intro, you could argue it's among the most important part of the show, since it's meant to grab the audience's attention with some great tricks. Your opinion on Spike's actions is your own. I personally found it to be a fun part of the episode. So they didn't? No, they didn't. I even rewatched that scene from the episode to make sure. The only ones who witness its destruction were Snips, Snails, and Trixie. Plus, I wouldn't say it's necessary to show it. After all, at most it's a minor complaint that most folk wouldn't notice until a discussion online or on a rewatch. "Trixie never said she was better than anyone" Yes she did, multiple times. She often said things along the lines of the greatest unicorn in all of Equestria. I may have not gotten the exact quote right, but she definitely did. As for challenging someone, no there isn't, but she isn't exactly left out of blame for that since she shouldn't be going off from her own show to have fights with members of the audience. She was the one who instigated it, I quite frankly don't blame the M3 for taking up her challenges. Hah, funny, I had someone on the video itself make that exact same argument. What are you two, the exact same person? Anyway, as I said to him, it is in most cases, but Trixie just did it for the sake of boasting. She only did it to fuel her own ego. Also, there's no need to get angry. It's a TV show about cartoon ponies learning about friendship. It's not exactly work getting angry about xP

All your arguments (save for the last two) say that she never got a chance to start her show. But she did; I'd argue that all the fireworks and magic she performed then would be considered part of her show. Not to mention when it showed Applejack giving her take on it, it showed Trixie doing a basic magic act. She definitely did start her show from when they started to criticize her boasting. AJ and Spike didn't have an ego (Dash and Rarity both do, but that's already established). Spike was just proud of Twilight's accomplishments and was angry to see a pony claiming to be better than her without showing exactly why. AJ was just holding pride in her farmwork. There's a difference between having pride in your accomplishments and being egotistical about it. Actually, that was the moral itself. They didn't? I'd wager they should have, then, since they understood her circumstance then. Possible flaw with Magic Duel, then, though I'll have to rewatch it myself one time to see. I don't believe they even knew that Trixie's belongings were destroyed. Even if they did, I don't think they would've guessed that it was all she had. At most it could be akin to say a trailer. After all, there's plenty of travelling performers that still have a home, an example of which is the YouTuber Alex Clark. Not to mention how Trixie didn't even bother to explain that her belongings were destroyed, and how she just chose to run off.

I've posted here before but I may as well with my Skype details. If you wanna add me to talk, add yufery5

@CJPony Before I reply, I should point out this is a kids show. May be a clever one, but there's no reason to take it too seriously. Anyway, your first point is that it was rushed because it never showed what exactly Trixie did. Though, I would argue that she was going rather overboard with the gloating while performing mediocre magic. Also, it's worth noting that most show performers wouldn't go out and actively call audience members onto the stage. Seems she got a bit overboard with her ego there. Also, this isn't standup comedy; it's a magic show. (Also, when did he say this? I'm curious.) As you said, that's debatable, however I do feel that Trixie was a bit out of line there, since she's supposed to prevent her show from spiraling off into a contest. Perhaps Rarity, AJ, and RD weren't the most justified, though I'd argue that Trixie instigated it. You're right, it didn't, but just because something isn't the primary moral doesn't mean there aren't more to get from it. Plus, they weren't harassing her in anyway. If she never called them out, I'd bet that they would just remain angry in the audience and at most, would approach her after she was off stage. As for the biting your tongue down, perhaps it could've paid off to include that within the episode, but too many morals probably would've become shoehorned in. This same applies to your point about fanboyism. Though these could make for potential episode morals (or were they done before? I forgot, there's over 100 episodes to be fair lol) The points of Trixie losing everything were addressed in Magic Duel, giving her legitimate motives for revenge. Plus, didn't the Mane 6 feel bad for her after that? It showed how they weren't entirely innocent in that regard. But, I also should add that Trixie probably should've asked them for help. I'd wager that they would give it to her, given the circumstances. Also I just posted it here because this is the area where you showcased videos you've made. Though if analysis-type videos belong there, then I'll post them there from now on.