Unicorn magic?

[AmberDust 1,118]

Unicorn magic. Hmm.

I wonder how much magic the average unicorn knows. Pumpkin cake can teleport, walk through solid objects, break locks, and lift herself across the room, but Sweetie Bell can't lift a broom. Twilight Sparkle could teleport relatively early in the series (unless I'm mistaken), and Trixie can pull off party tricks like manipulating ponies and things. Other unicorns in the series aren't seen doing much more than basic levitation and Rarity has that sort of gem x-ray vision, but is that all they can do? Or do they just not use magic often because they don't feel the need? Do they learn any magic in school?
Does magic require a sort of magical potency within a creature, or do spells just need to be studied and learnt?

I want to try and figure out what is considered and average amount of magic. What spells are basic, other than levitation, and what spells are reserved for the magically talented. A level system is what I'm after, (ranging from 0-10,) and I feel like this knowledge would be very helpful for a lot of writers out there. So, lets start with basics.

Level 0. Every unicorn learns this, hooves down. Consider it a freebie:

• Levitation (becomes more difficult with heavier/larger objects. Also, precision increases with level.)

Level 1. Every unicorn should learn these as they grow up:

• Breaking things or manipulating them with some precision
• Special talent (cutie mark talent. Could be more advanced for some)
• Lumos!

Level 2. Every unicorn should be capable of learning these, but won't necessarily use or be good at them. In school, think of it as a B-plus:

• animating objects to move on their own (see "art of the dress")
• weather manipulation (should this be higher level?)
• prestidigitation minor tricks (light shows, changing colours, etc. Trixie uses a slightly more advanced version of this.)

Level 3. Average magic for adult ponies. This is your entrance exam to Celestia's kindergarten, but adult unicorns should be able to pull these off easily with enough practice:

• hatching a dragon egg (thoughts?)
• Energy beam (weak, strengthens with each level)
• minor charms

Level 4. In my mind, this is where Twilight's power was at the beginning of the series. Maybe a little higher would be better, actually. So for levitation power, think of the Ursa Minor and the water tower. ...Anyways:

• Being able to somewhat control living creatures (make them float or stop moving momentarily)
• teleportation (minor. The farther you want to go, the more difficult it is)
• more advanced charms (want it need it)

Level 5. This is some impressive magic! Only those who dedicate themselves to magic should know these:

• Sturdy force fields/bubbles (more power=larger, sturdier)

Level 6. These spells require lots of study and practice, no matter how much natural talent you have. Not for the faint of heart or weak of will. (On second thought, maybe Twilight should start here instead. Level 5 and 6 spells are hard to place...think Twilight season 1 vs. Twilght season 2? Any thoughts?)

• Time travel (limited)
• Reverse gravity (specific to a few small objects)

Level 7. Very advanced, but not yet Alicorn-tier. This is where the Alicorn amulet might place you-- in addition to the corruption, of course:

• Summoning inanimate objects from thin air
• controlling the actions of ponies
• memory charm

Level 8. Sombra and Starswirl would go here. Unicorns who studied a lot of magic and are very powerful, but didn't have the right heart to advance to Alicorn tier. This is still about the same amount of power an "ascended Alicorn" might have:

• Age-altering spells
• Gender-altering spells
• Advanced dark magic
• Creating new magic
• Switching cutie marks (I feel like this should be level 7 instead)

Level 9: Celestia/Luna levels of power. Likely reserved for natural-born Alicorns. Twilight and Cadence are not this strong.

• Raising the moon/sun
• Teleporting to magical planes. (Think of Twilight's weird "princess memory zone" or Luna's dreamwalking)
• Cadence+Shining's love spell. Only successful because it was a combined effort.
• Transferring your power to someone else.

Level 10: Discord/Tirek level, as well as magical artefacts like the crystal heart and the elements of Harmony. No unicorn will ever reach this level.

• making/manipulating anything with ease and precision
• brainwashing
• travelling through/turning into an inanimate object
• (Basically omnipotence and possibly omnipresence)
• Stealing magic

Unplaced:

• Walking through walls (seemed simple enough, right?)
• Charms (want it, need it).
• Transfiguration (frog to orange, pony to Breezie, etc. probably medium level)
• Magic beams (could probably vary in level. I imagine every unicorn could do them, to some extent)
• Dark magic (is it high level, or just forbidden? Maybe both.)
• Working Butterfly wings
• Cloud walking
• Healing (no, we've never seen this happen, but I assume nurses use this magic)

So, any thoughts? Do you want to add spells to the list, or help organize some? Do you have any theories regarding spell potency? Were you thinking of giving your OC a certain spell, but you want to know what level it is first? And here's a few more questions to ponder...

• What level is Twilight at currently?
• What about Trixie?
• How many levels does the Alicorn Amulet bump you up by? Is it really as powerful as an Alicorn's magic?
• On a scale of zero to ten, is Discord level twelve?

Please leave your theories and suggestions below!

And big thanks to for all of your suggestions.

Edited April 6, 2015 by AmberDust

[DormantAccount 308]

Generally speaking, I usually throw anything we see in Baby Cakes out when it comes to magic and flight. Perhaps they're just geniuses or the writers didn't have the established canon that they've set in newer episodes, so they amped them up for comedic effect.

 

Spike seems to establish in the beginning of boast busters that most unicorns only have a little magic related to their talent. Levitation of objects does seem to be kind of a level 0 spell that everyone gets when they begin to use magic.

 

I think for the most part that we can use Twilight for a sliding scale of difficulty. The newer a spell is, the more difficult it probably is, exception for the wing spell and dark magic, they seemed to tax even her quite heavily. 

 

I think that the EQE has it about right with the number of spells. A unicorn who doesn't specialize in magic should only have a few spells. This helps balance out the power levels a bit. You may have a powerful spell, but you only have a handful of spells. 

 

Perhaps one could create this rating schema and find a kind of stat pool where each level has so many points and if you over extend on one powerful spell, you'll be faced with having two or three pretty meager spells.

 

I don't think you should lump all the special talent magic in one level. Some are mild, some could be game breaking.

Edited January 6, 2015 by DexterousWings

[AmberDust 1,118]

I don't think you should lump all the special talent magic in one level. Some are mild, some could be game breaking.

True, but most ponies get their cutie mark when they're young, and if their talent is related to a spell, it's kind of a freebie. Think of Rarity. Her spell activated without her even noticing, nevermind trying. I put in it "level 1" because its something you learn early on, even if you don't master it right away.

 

With regards to how many spells a unicorn can learn, I feel like you're thinking too much in terms of D&D. (Spells per day and an arcane pool that can "run out".)

I feel like any pony who's interested enough in magic can learn any spell they want, so long as they put time and effort into it. The higher level a spell is, the more difficult it is to perform/control. That's the idea I had in mind.

I think limiting the number of spells a unicorn can use is silly. Sure, they can only memorize a few, but they should be able to use any spell within their range of power if they get a hold on the instructions.

 

I feel like magic should be treated like any other skill. The more you use it, the easier it becomes to perform and memorize. Some require strength and concentration, like acrobatics, and some require muscle memory, like cat's cradle!

Edited January 6, 2015 by AmberDust

[DormantAccount 308]

Well, some new techniques they might learn as they train their talents could be more powerful.

 

While they could learn new skills as they get older. A lot of them have magic that suits their purposes and don't require anything more. It isn't necessarily about game breaking or not (that's more for aid in designing OCs), but that they just don't have the time or inclination. 

 

Spells take time to master. Ponies have a finite amount of time to improve. An easy spell will take very little time to master, but to master more powerful spells will take greater time. There are restrictions on how many spells you could keep in good memory and practice at any given time.

 

They could have a boatload of easy spells or a few difficult ones. You could think of them like songs if you have ever tried to memorize music. Hot Cross Buns is pretty simple and easy to remember, so I still remember it to this day without having to try hard, but if I try to remember other songs I haven't played in a while that are more intricate I can't recall them. Also, some just don't have the right instrument to play certain music. A tuba would have a hard time playing a flute part.

[AmberDust 1,118]

That last comment about instruments is where I disagree. I think everypony has the potential to TRY a spell, if they know where to start. Twilight could replicate Rarity's gem finding spell, meaning it's not something only Rarity can use.

I think it all comes down to these two things:

Natural talent--this determines how much power you start off with, but anypony can get stronger if they try. Ponies with natural talent are simply more likely to try harder, because they know they're already good and therefore don't get discouraged as easily if they're unable to pull off a spell. I think of magical talent comparable to intellectual/physical prodigy. They just started at a higher level.

And, secondly,

Practice--With enough of this, I think any unicorn can learn any spell. Admittedly, not every unicorn tries, so that's why they don't use spells often--they're more trouble than they're worth for somepony who doesn't need them day-to-day.

 

I imagine that most magic students know how to teleport and walk through walls. It's not something that's overly difficult--it just takes time and dedication.

 

So, I guess what I'm saying is that if a pony practices a spell on a regular basis, they should be able to master it. The levels signify how long that might take.

[Twilysparkle 8]

Well in the episode, "Baby Cakes" Twilight and Rarity state that unicorn magic can come and go. And in the episode, "Babs seed" we see sweetie belle give a few sparks from her horn. And in the season 4 premiere, sweetie belle is having trouble controlling her magic because of the whole everfree issue. And sense rarity was having a similar issue, I can assume that sweetie belle did indeed know some magic.

[Shadowking58 1,137]

Baby Cakes was just a freaking bitch to continunity, I don't take any of that episode into consideration, they just made the babies use magic just for plot convenience.

[Elegron 168]

well combat magic would be fairly high leveled. on a scale of 0-10 i would say my oc is about a 5

Edited January 6, 2015 by Elegron

[DormantAccount 308]

Yes, Twilight was able to replicate Rarity's spell, but in most things she is the exception, not the rule. Her talent is magic and that is what allows her to learn so many different spells. 

Edited January 6, 2015 by DexterousWings

[VitalSpark 1,830]

In Boast Busters Twilight states that most unicorns can only do a small number of spells, which directly relate to their special talent.

 

Sweetie Belle's problems notwithstanding, levitation seems to be something nearly all unicorns acquire at an early stage in life. Perhaps her difficulties with the broom are not because she's especially poor at levitation spells, but because a broom is a relatively large object to levitate, especially for a little filly. Most of the time you see things being levitated by unicorns other than Twilight, they're fairly small objects.

 

I'd suggest that levitation, like manual grasping in humans, is something that they theoretically have at birth, but needs years of practice to be refined into a useful skill. (A newborn human baby can't write calligraphy, even if they can hold the pen.)

 

The existence of Princess Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns seems to me to imply that only especially gifted unicorns will ever be able to study to learn additional spells above the small set related to their special talent. Twilight Sparkle and Sunset Shimmer were not only amongst those gifted unicorns, but were significantly more talented than the typical level of their peers at the school. And since becoming an alicorn, it's likely that only a few spells will ever be beyond Twilight's talents now.

 

So anyway, I'd suggest that levitation is a standard ability that all unicorns have. Most unicorns get a handful of spells related to their special talents at the same time they get their cutie marks. A few gifted unicorns demonstrate the continuing ability to acquire more spells with study and practice, perhaps as many as a couple of dozen spells. Rare exceptional unicorns like Twilight Sparkle and Sunset Shimmer have almost unlimited spell-learning potential.

 

Pumpkin Cake is an exception. It is stated in Baby Cakes that baby unicorns sometimes have uncontrolled outbursts of magic. But perhaps what we saw in that episode is a hint that she may turn out to be one of the gifted ones.

[Pastel 7,630]

Regarding Baby Cakes, I think it shows that every baby unicorn is able to use advanced magic, but they lose this ability when growing up. (Same for baby pegasi, they are able to fly) I don't think the Pumpkin Cakes are exceptions.

I'm pretty sure they won't be able to do what they did in this episode when they are older.

So yeah, don't take this episode into consideration.

 

 

I'd say that teleportation is level 3.

[Tao 7,431]

Magic is also how many types can say we have and also how

does magic also appear in others like none unicorns? Yet also

when a unicorn uses magic are taping into their own energy or

can they pull on other energies to make power, but also does this

depend on the types of spells they maybe using and can unicorns

use say potions to bust their powers or types of stones/gems?

 

We've seen Twilight use a potions to look back into time

in the eps: Princess Twilight Sparkle but its one of the

few times we have seen this and in the Crystal Empire, 

the Crystal Heart gem is used to boast the power of the shield

and boast Princess Cadance powers to add in the spell of the

shield to keep Mr Smoky out...

 

We've seen also the objects of power such as the

Alicorn Amulet can be used to highly boast  a unicorns  natural magic in Trixie but it comes with a side

effect in the return feed of using such magic boasters.

 

Also unicorns can join their magics in group spells,  which

is seen in the Hearth Warming Eve when the unicorns raise

the sun and such before the Princess came along.  And in

Armor and Cadance in the Wedding join their magic and love

to boast the others powers and throw out the changelings....

 

Question I tend to lean is can unicorns have a talent

for special types of magic such as spell crafting/elemental based

and other such degrees?

[Fractured 2,684]

I suggest placing special talent related magic in 1, since it's one of the two things all unicorns will pick up, presumably when they get their cutie mark.

 

2 would be special requirement, things all unicorns should be able to pick up no problem, but would only do so if it relates to their special talent(making it a bit more difficult as it's natural, but not intuitive). For this, Rarity will be our "baseline" unicorn. Transmutation(Suited for Success, Rarity Takes Manehatten), precision telekinetic manipulation or manipulation of a lot of objects(Art of the Dress), and weather manipulation (Magical Mystery Cure) should go in 1.  (I would also suggest moving the rest of tier 1 into tier 2, or moving all of these+ the special talent related magic into tier 1, since they're outside the scope of most unicorns.) Tier wise, Rarity is between here and Tier 3; Trixie, despite having been in Celestia's school, would belong here too.

 

Tier 3 would be the unicorn laser. This can be used reflexively due to strong emotions(Rarity pulled one off when pissed off in the comics), but for conscious use,this beyond the scope of what 90% of unicorns will probably ever learn. Shining Armor, one of the exceptions, is here. 

 

Tier 4 would be the learning class, any specific spells a unicorn that's been through Celestia's school would presumably know. Twilight is our baseline here, and any specific spells she's been shown to do would go in this category. Teleportation, Precision manipulation of living objects(without crushing them, from Magic Duel) would go here as well. Sunset Shimmer should be in this category; anything higher is dubious since she basically dropped out. 

 

Tier 5 would be the power class, and due to energy requirements, this tier and up would be things that only very magically talented unicorns will ever reach. This is also baseline alicorn level. Moving incredibly heavy objects(Ursa Minor, the dam in Mysterious Mare Do Well), limited time travel(It's about Time), large magical releases like "The Twilight Sparkleboom", or large, sustainable shield spells (Ponyville Confidential, Return of the Crystal Empire, A Royal Canterlot Wedding) would go here. The Inspiration Manifestation is also in this tier, and so is Cadence. Shining Armor's not here due to being a specialist in shield spells.

 

Jumping up, Tier 8 would be the "legend" class, things only assigned to "the highest level unicorns". This is a lot more than being magically talented; only unicorns who are magically gifted would go here. Age spells, switching cutie marks, creating new magic, and using, manipulating, and dispelling dark magic are in this tier. This is where Starswirl and Twilight would both end; the alicorn amulet is in this category as well. 

 

Tier 9 would be "alicorn" class, and only those with power equal to pure-blooded alicorns can use these spells solo; otherwise, multiple ponies are required. Celestia and Luna are the only solo ponies past this point. This class is where raising the sun and moon (Celestia, Luna) should go. 

 

Tier 10 is the "Alicorn+" class. No amount of magical power will let you replicate spells.  in this class. Manipulating the Elements of Harmony (Celestia in Princess Twilight Sparkle), Shining Armor/Cadences love spell(A Royal Canterlot Wedding) and the magic of the Crystal Heart(Return of the Crystal Empire) would go here.

[Manman20x6 359]

I would say that alicorn magic can be used by all unicorns, however it has the side effect of corrupting its user over time. Because of this, it is known as dark magic when it is used by somepony who isn't an alicorn. One of the powers of alicorns is immunity to magical corruption, which allows them to cast these spells without worry. Either way, these spells require a large amount of magic power to cast

 

Evidence of this is that the magic glow when Twilight used dark magic in The Crystal Empire is the same as when she uses her alicorn magic.

 

As for the Baby Cakes, IIRC it was stated that baby unicorns sometimes have powerful surges of magic, which may allow them to cast spells much more powerful than what a slightly older unicorn might be able to.

[VitalSpark 1,830]

 

 

Magic is also how many types can say we have and also how does magic also appear in others like none unicorns?

 

 

Yes, it's well-established that non-unicorn ponies are also magic.

 

Unicorns have horns which allow them to control their magic far more finely than other ponies. Their ability to perform levitation is a very clear display of their magic. Unicorns typically also have a few other spells they can each use, which vary widely between individuals. (Though other than Cadence's love spell and Rarity's gem finding, we've not actually seen very many of these on the show.)

 

Pegasus ponies use magic to fly. Yes, they have wings, but the wings are puny so need to be supplemented with magic. Their magic also allows them to stand on and manipulate clouds as if they were solid objects. Rainbow Dash's rainbow trail is best explained by magic - and a few other pegasus ponies (Daring Do and Lightning Dust spring to mind) leave trails of some kind too.

 

Earth ponies derive their strength from magic. Many of them also have special talents related to nature, and these abilities seem to be enhanced by magic.

 

The cutie mark design on all mature ponies is also a magical artefact. It's not caused by skin pigments; it's caused by magic. The vivid colours of their eyes may also have a magical cause.

 

For canonical evidence of this, see the season 4 two-part finale. I'll spoiler the explanation in case anybody hasn't seen it.

 

Tirek goes around Equestria draining unicorn ponies of their magic. Once they've been drained, they are unable to perform any spells including levitation, their cutie mark fades away, and their eyes become a duller colour.

 

But he doesn't stop at unicorns. He drains the pegasus ponies' magic too. They fall out of the sky, and lose their cutie marks and eye colour. He also targets earth ponies. They are weakened, and lose their cutie marks and eye colour.

 

Also, late in part 1 of the finale, Celestia says this:

 

 

 

Without Pegasi to control the weather, there will be no rain in Equestria. There is word he has gone after Earth ponies as well. Without their strength, they will not be able to tend the land.

 

Just one seed of doubt is sewed though by Celestia's line just before that:

 

 

 

Tirek has stolen enough magic that he now has the strength to steal flight as well.

 

So it seems that when Tirek was weak, he was able to steal unicorn magic, but not drain the powers of the other ponies. Is this because he was initially only able to drain Magic™, and the other ponies' powers are magic, but not Magic™? And he could only start draining these magic powers once he had gained sufficient Magic™? Celestia seems to be classing flight as something different to Magic™.

 

(In case it's not clear, in the previous paragraph I'm using Magic™ to refer to a set of powers that alicorns and unicorns agree are magical. There might be other powers (such as flight) which you or I would consider magical in our world, but which alicorns and unicorns think of as something different.)

 

But I have another explanation. I think the answer lies in the horn. The horn gives unicorns more control of their magic than other ponies. But it also acted like a pipe that Tirek was able to suck the magic out of. Pegasus and earth ponies don't have horns, so he needed to be more powerful to come up with a way of draining their magic.

 

[NavelColt 22,878]

Don't forget Twilight's 'Fuck gravity, I'm *almost* a princess!' spell in the S3 premiere. Clearly far different kind of spell than levitation, as there's both a powerful aurora coming from her horn, and no aurora around herself or Spike like there is with generic levitation of objects. As she's the only one seen doing it outside Discord, and she said herself, 'Whoooooahahaha! I actually studied gravity spells, thinking it might be on my test! Turns out I was prepared for this!', it's safe to assume it's some high-level unicorn magic.

 

 

 

 

I have some headcanons of these things myself, though they're posted in some other topics. I have a topic about Chaos Magic, my thoughts on how Discord's magic might work, which also hits upon Unicorn, Alicorn and Natural Magic *Pegasi and Earth Ponies use to walk on clouds and harvest the land*. Magic and how it works is certainly one of the biggest topics for interesting discussion, as is anything to do with the show's lore.

[PSP (Dizzy) 201]

This probably isn't a very satisfactory answer, but it depends on the writer, it seems. It's established that certain spells are generally difficult, but then those rules are bent or changed for comedic effect.

[IJoinedForPonies 125]

You can't really place all the magic spells seen in the show as a level like it was an RPG. :-P

 

Any Unicorn can learn whatever magic it wants provided it is allowed, it all depends on the discipline of the Unicorn learning it. But, they will obviously need to master more basic spells in order to mettle with the advanced ones. I would think of the spells as more of a tree rather than levels. Start at X spell, move to spell Y to get to spell Z.

Edited January 7, 2015 by IJoinedForPonies

[PSP (Dizzy) 201]

You can't really place all the magic spells seen in the show as a level like it was an RPG. :-P

 

Any Unicorn can learn whatever magic it wants provided it is allowed, it all depends on the discipline of the Unicorn learning it. But, they will obviously need to master more basic spells in order to mettle with the advanced ones. I would think of the spells as more of a tree rather than levels. Start at X spell, move to spell Y to get to spell Z.

 

Twilight seems to imply in Boast Busters that not all unicorns can learn all spells.

[IJoinedForPonies 125]

Twilight seems to imply in Boast Busters that not all unicorns can learn all spells.

 

That's why I said it depends on the discipline of the Pony. ;-)

[PSP (Dizzy) 201]

That's why I said it depends on the discipline of the Pony. ;-)

 

I thought that might've been what you meant, so my apologies. Discipline is a difficult word sometimes.

[Fractured 2,684]

You can't really place all the magic spells seen in the show as a level like it was an RPG. :-P

Of course you can. Magic is basically a muscle; the "stronger" you are, the more magic you can cast. There's obviously a wide margin for spells, but there's a limit to what you can do. Try as an average person might, they'll never be as buff as Arnold Schwarzenegger; try as some unicorns might, they'll never be as magically gifted as Twilight Sparkle. At some point, it's just beyond what you can do; there's not a unicorn alive that's raising the sun or moon by themselves.

[AmberDust 1,118]

Alright! I've updated the list, for anyone who'd like to tell me why I'm totally off the mark make suggestions!

[Pastel 7,630]

Time travel? Level 6? Have we ever seen time travel in MLP:FiM? I'm not sure.

[VitalSpark 1,830]

 

 

Have we ever seen time travel in MLP:FiM? I'm not sure.

 

Yes. In It's About Time Twilight travels back in time by about a week, but she's only there for around one minute before being returned to her "native" time.