MLP:FiM not ideal regarding its target audiences?

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Well among other things, how about the fact that Fluttershy getting literally infused with batness turns her into a mindless feral beast with no empathy or compassion thus proving AJ right about them?

[Guest]

Sorry for this post being that long, but I'm actually responding to 25 posts...
 
About Fluttershy & the bats.
 
While I'm not a professional farmer, I really think that farmers are perfectly capable of sustaining & expanding their orchards themselves. There is no reason why couldn't they seed or plant an apple tree themselves, is there? But the difference is that if they do it themselves they get the trees next to each other and with no waste - however, if the job is left to the bats, then we have the trees scattered across the whole neighbourhood, and with a lot of apples wasted. Last but not least farmers know they should keep some little distance among the trees; the bats, however, may spit out multiple seed in one place, making the trees rivaling and drowning each other.
 
Seriously, I can't really imagine a real farmer donating part of his garden to pest. Well... We have, say, 1/5 of the orchard donated to bats. Then we will have another 1/5 donated to birds, another 1/5 to worms, another 1/5 to rodents, and maybe another 1/5 to fungi (why not? also an alive organism)... what will we eat? Or maybe should we resort to good old gathering of forest undergrowth? Finally donating parts of the garden to pest must result in the pesto population ballooning and them invading, sooner or later, the rest of the farm.
 
Fluttershy is said to be an expert on animals. But to me she seems to be an odd expert. AFAIK real experts understand that while this might sound harsh animals are actually not humans and therefore human rights do not apply; they kill each other and sometimes have to be killed in order to restore an already upset balance (for example exterminating invasive species on territories not native to them might be a must). Also animals can be killed and used by humans and kept off from causing damage to, for example, humans or crops. However, destroying their natural habitats or exterminating them for our convinience is both immoral and stupid, since sooner or later the consequences will come. Therefore our moral duties to animals are limited to keeping the balance and refraining from unecessary cruelty.
 
This is opposed to "mad hippies" or "the greens", who treat animals like humans and would eagerly give human rights to animals. So, according to them, animals may not be used or killed by humans, and humans have moral duties to every single animal just like to any other person. Therefore they promote veganism (or in extreme cases even frutarianism, if same rules are applied to plants), condemn drug tests and are sometimes even eager to jeopardize human safety in order to safe the life of one particular beast. They also tend to think that animals have human sense of morality (like Fluttershy did - let me quote her: "Oh, I'm sure if we just let them know how special that particular apple is to you, they'll leave it alone"), which is again wrong. The irony is that by doing so, they might even upset the natural balance, for example by saving a hermivore from a predator.
 
And quite frankly, Fluttershy seems to represent the second kind. This does not mean that such mentality is automagically correct; rather, this means that the show is naive and utopian and sometimes spoonfeeds false morals.
 
In this particular case, the bats are pest. They destroy crops and damage the trees (not help them - in the cartoon they were shown in a really horrific state), so they should be kept away of the orchard, if possible by non-violent means (scarecrows, loudspeakers imitating the sound of their natural enemies like eagles). If their rides stem of an upset balance (like the destruction of their previous natural habitat - and I mean the forest, not the orchard), then if possible, that balance should be restored. However, in more severe cases, brutal control of their population would be in order. And this has nothing in common with morononic ideas like complete extermination of their population, which will upset the balance seriously and almost certainly backfire badly (as happened in China under Mao).
 
However, it's a kids' show. Animals get personificated in such shows rather frequently. So OK, let's treat them as humans (err... ponies) from now on. But even in this case the conclusion is not completely right. Because this boils down to rewarding a thief for being bold enough to actually attempt robbery. Many other bats could think of stealing apples, but they didn't actually try to steal them - and these bats get no reward as "part of an orchard"! Right - if they're starving, they must be helped, and immediately. But first, even in this case the long-term aim is to give them a fishing rod (help them found their own orchard) rather than fish (give them an already prospering orchard); and second, there doesn't seem to be any indication in the episode the bats can't get food from other sources (I might be wrong here).
 
About kindness being the ultimate solution to all evil.
 

I do not want Britain to be defeated, nor do I want her to be victorious in a trial of brute strength, whether expressed through the muscle or the brain. Your muscular bravery is an established fact. Need you demonstrate that your brain is also as unrivalled in destructive power as your muscle? I hope you do not wish to enter into such an undignified competition with the Nazis. I venture to present you with a nobler and a braver way, worthy of the bravest soldier. I want you to fight Nazism without arms, or, if I am to retain the military terminology, with non-violent arms. I would like you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions. Let them take possession of your beautiful island, with your many beautiful buildings. You will give all these, but neither your souls, nor your minds. If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourself, man, woman and child, to be slaughtered, but you will refuse to owe allegiance to them.

(source and full text; btw, some say that just two years later Gandhi modified his position in favor of war)

Do you second Gandhi's letter, @BronyOfJustice?

About cider and alcohol.

I don't know... I've read this topic. While many seem to think this cider is non-alcoholic, I find the points of the others rather strong... See:
 

this is from the official comic

actually the cider bubbles at the top and cider only bubbles if their is alcohol present

I know it's amid show, but they kind of already established that cider is alcohol since fillies can' drink it

I don't think that cider was alcoholic, but it could be. This show has been known to make alcoholic references before, so it wouldn't really surprise me if it was.

To the last one... According to Wikipedia applejack (the drink) is a pretty strong alcoholic beverage historilcally made by concentrating hard cider. And they named Applejack (the pony) after this drink...

However, I also get other points, claiming that fermentation time is too short, that Spike was allowed to drink it, that it is a kids' show (duh...), that in many places "cider" refers to a soft drink...
 
I now think it is most likely they created this ambiguity on purpose, to both keep it (reasonably) safe for children and appeal some adults (the way @KHAJIT described).
 
About target audience & morals
 
While I understand that young kids will probably pay much more attention to the show's "funnism" then the message I still think that shows have great power to shift the kids' attitude and behaviour - the younger the kids, the greater the influence. Hence, it is important that such shows do not spoonfeed false claims.
 
About other episodes

I also watched the first two-parter and "Ticket master". Again, I get and appreciate the message - beat evil with good deeds, do not jealously hide your goods from your friends, do not try to make your friends do a favor to you, do not allow even your friends to manipulate you and use you, but...
 
Fallacies similar to this of the "Bats!" episode persist. Two examples. First: Rarity donating her tail to that sea serpent. Very noble indeed. But, as Rainbow Dash pointed out, the moustache would grow back just as the tail. Actually, the serpent acted as if he was a cry-baby and Vanity Smurf, so it would be in his best interest if he was told to simply get over his moustache. Second: Twilight Sparkle returning her tickets to Celestia. This showed her attachment to her friends for sure, but... this crosses the line of harmful dependency. Actually, she has the right to go to the Gala if she was invited, regardless whether her friends are also invited... And her friends have no right to beg for a ticket or exercise such pressure that Twilight starts feeling bad about her Gala. Of course, nothing holds her from asking for tickets for her friends as well.
 
About other shows
 

To be frank, My Little Pony has among the best writing of shows that are airing right now, to the point that even their dud episodes are far, far better than dud episodes of their competing cartoons. Even with all the interpretation for error that people have been making with "Bats!", the conflict is still stronger and the message rings truer than other cartoons that would try to tackle the same plot. That's quite a feat.[/color]

I can easily believe this, even without watching the other shows.

[Koukatsu 5,899]

 

 

this show is targeted to girls who are only a few years old

This is my problem with your post.

Perhaps will have more to say regarding the rest of your post, but as for this single line, I refer you to these blogs;

MLP:FIM Returns the Franchise Where It Belongs: Back to Its Roots (Revised)

Because some people need to be reminded. <__<

"It's for kids/little girls!" is a STUPID excuse!

"(Male) bronies stole FIM from little girls!" ...Really?

Grown REALLY tired of beating this dead horse

So, saying it's a show for little girls, or even just children, is an inaccurate statement.

The point is, it's targeted at several audiences, including the "more mature" audience you seem to feel it isn't.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

@

Definitely right about Fluttershy's dubious "expertise" with animals. Heck her own key episode this season showed how her "care" has very little room for placing limitations on those she cares for, and she'd rather just give them whatever they want. And this is exactly what she proposed with the farm.

 

What I just don't understand is why one would even expect the "sanctuary" to result in less of the farm's apples eaten than just letting them freely run amok. There's nothing about the "sanctuary" idea that actually involves the bats eating less apples, so where is the benefit for the farm?

[Winona the Dog 1,984]

You know there's always shows that target a specific audience. However a good writing team knows that that demographic isn't enough so they try to write episode out so that maybe other people outside would be able to enjoy.

[Justin_Case001 4,940]

The show has certainly gotten stupider as it's gone on. It used to be about delivering quality messages for daily interaction, such that a relatively tame but unusually off-base moral like in Feeling Pinkie Keen got lambasted for its poor delivery. Now we get episodes like Bats!, where the moral, conflict, and character relations are written by five year olds.

I've said many times that season 4 had more ups and downs due to the writers trying new things, but I fail to see how messages like those in Wonderbolts Academy (I'm aware that's season 3), Rarity Takes Manehattan, Simple Ways, Filli Vanilli, Leap of Faith, Testing 1, 2, 3, and Equestria Games, to name a few, are not quality messages for daily interaction.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

I've said many times that season 4 had more ups and downs due to the writers trying new things, but I fail to see how messages like those in Wonderbolts Academy (I'm aware that's season 3), Rarity Takes Manehattan, Simple Ways, Filli Vanilli, Leap of Faith, Testing 1, 2, 3, and Equestria Games, to name a few, are not quality messages for daily interaction.

Fair enough, show me how they are.