Happy Upgrade to Windows 10 Day!

[Guest]

  On 2015-08-05 at 1:53 AM, Fleur-De-Lis said:

Whoa! Simmer down buddy. chill out, relax. We are all friends here. Lets try to keep things friendly and non-confrontational.

 

We are simply trying to answer your concerns and spread the knowledge that we have learned through our own hands on experience with windows 10.

I'm not being confrontational by responding to his argument. It seems to me that by pointing out that there is a difference between opinion and fact, he is implying that that Is what I said or implied at some point which is why I took issue with his statement. Because if I hadn't, then there would be presumably no reason to bring up that fact out of nowhere.

 

Also

 

 

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Also couldn't be removed in Windows 8. It's there to have some form of security software out of the box.

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This point is irrelevant, since all the arguments I made about not upgrading to windows 10 could be applied to windows 8.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Guest

[long gone 8,929]

  On 2015-08-05 at 1:52 AM, Twilight Kyle said:

I just told you how so. What about my argument did you not understand?

 

Windows 10 is a pointless upgrade, it does nothing but make everything that was easy to do with 7 more inconvenient. Especially for power users like myself.

Please, don't be so confrontational. As Fleur-De-Lis said, we're all friends here.

 

Also,

 

 

 

  On 2015-08-05 at 1:47 AM, Twilight Kyle said:

This is not the case with windows 7. Which is what makes 7 superior to both vista and 8. In fact as far I know vista never had this problem.

Vista was the OS that introduced User Account Control. People complained about how frequent UAC requests were (every time you tried working with system files, every time you used the Control Panel, every time you did basically anything remotely administrative), so Microsoft toned them down in Windows 7 and above and added the option to turn them off (if you really want XP-esque security lel) or bring them back up to the Vista level.

[Guest]

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:01 AM, Daring said:

 

Please, don't be so confrontational. As Fleur-De-Lis said, we're all friends here.

 

Also,

 

 

 

Vista was the OS that introduced User Account Control. People complained about how frequent UAC requests were (every time you tried working with system files, every time you used the Control Panel, every time you did basically anything remotely administrative), so Microsoft toned them down in Windows 7 and above and added the option to turn them off (if you really want XP-esque security lel) or bring them back up to the Vista level.

 

Dude, i'm not being confrontational by addressing your arguments, do you not understand how debate works? I'm not angry, I'm just addressing your statements and responding to them.

 

I'm not talking about UAC, I know that can be easily disabled in all os's post-vista, i'm talking about being unable to write to C:\ or C:\windows\*.* without being the administrator account (or opening up an elevated command prompt). In other words, your account is not a real administrator. When I say default apps what I should have said is 'the settings which controls which extensions open up certain applications" but I was using shorthand because I thought you would understand what I meant.

 

Besides we're not talking about vista, we're talking about the differences between 7 and 10.

 

We may all be friends, but we're also all adults, and adults should be able to take criticism without accusing that person of being confrontational.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Guest

[long gone 8,929]

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:03 AM, Twilight Kyle said:

Dude, i'm not being confrontational by addressing your arguments, do not understand how debate works? I'm not angry, I'm just addressing your statements and responding to them.

 

I'm not talking about UAC, I know that can be easily disabled in all os's post-vista, i'm talking about being unable to write to C:\ or C:\windows\*.* without being the administrator account (or opening up an elevated command prompt). In other words, your account is not a real administrator. When I say default apps what I should have said is 'the settings which controls which extensions open up certain applications" but I was using shorthand because I thought you would understand what I meant.

All right then.

 

As for your argument, just booted up my Windows 7 VM and tried moving a file to System32. Got a message saying that I need to provide administrator permission to move to that folder. It's not a new thing.

 

Also, one of the things you might notice about me is you have to be pretty direct with me, otherwise I won't get what you're saying. And oh. I just got used to using the dialogue to change filename extension associations.

[Guest]

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:11 AM, Daring said:

All right then.

 

As for your argument, just booted up my Windows 7 VM and tried moving a file to System32. Got a message saying that I need to provide administrator permission to move to that folder. It's not a new thing.

 

Also, one of the things you might notice about me is you have to be pretty direct with me, otherwise I won't get what you're saying. And oh. I just got used to using the dialogue to change filename extension associations.

So were you able to move the file after you got permission? I don't know what you're doing wrong but I can move, change, or delete anything on system32 without getting an error message or requiring permission from the administrator. My point is, I was not able to do this on 10. You probably have your OS configured incorrectly. Also it would sometimes say I needed permission, I would ask for permission and then get denied, despite being an administrator.

 

 

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And oh. I just got used to using the dialogue to change filename extension associations.

Well that's great, glad you like it. You probably don't use your computer the way I do, which is why these problems are far more glaring to me.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Guest

[long gone 8,929]

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:16 AM, Twilight Kyle said:

So were you able to move the file after you got permission? I don't know what you're doing wrong but I can move, change, or delete anything on system32 without getting an error message or requiring permission from the administrator. My point is, I was not able to do this on 10. You probably have your OS configured incorrectly.

Yes I was, and no, I got UAC set to the default setting.

[Guest]

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:20 AM, Daring said:

Yes I was, and no, I got UAC set to the default setting.

Ok so what have you proven with that little experiment? As I said I'm able to do everything on 10 that I can on 7 far easier, and in the case of 7 I don't even need permission from the administrator, my windows 7 account is a real administrator, unlike the pretend administrator access they give you on 10.

 

And this is the crux of my argument, windows 10 is not faster, it's not easier to use, and in fact arguments could be made for it being quite the opposite, with all the settings changed, things moved around and ugly interfaces. Many of which can't be fixed by personalization options, and one of which even requires you to install a 3rd party program to fix.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Guest

[long gone 8,929]

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:22 AM, Twilight Kyle said:

Ok so what have you proven with that little experiment? As I said I'm able to do everything on 10 that I can on 7 far easier, and in the case of 7 I don't even need permission from the administrator, my windows 7 account is a real administrator, unlike the pretend administrator access they give you on 10.

So you use Windows 7 as Administrator? Isn't that like running root on Linux?

[Guest]

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:24 AM, Daring said:

So you use Windows 7 as Administrator? Isn't that like running root on Linux?

Yes, being an administrator on Windows 7 (and to a lesser extent, 8 and 10) is like being a superuser on linux, or on android aka root. I don't know any serious windows users who don't use their computer as an administrator.

 

Ah yes, and the new task manager interface that ships with 10 is annoying. Apparently windows developers aren't familiar with the term "If it aint broken, then don't fix it."

Edited August 5, 2015 by Guest

[long gone 8,929]

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:25 AM, Twilight Kyle said:

Yes, being an administrator on Windows 7 (and to a lesser extent, 8 and 10) is like being a superuser on linux, or on android aka root. I don't know any serious windows users who don't use their computer as an administrator.

But...

 

I don't understand. I only use Administrator for its intended purpose, system administration, rather than as my personal account. Otherwise, I leave it disabled for security purposes. But if that's what you do, then yes, the Administrator account does indeed exist in Windows 10 and you can indeed enable it and use it as your personal account.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Daring

[Guest]

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:28 AM, Daring said:

But...

 

I don't understand. I only use Administrator for its intended purpose, system administration, rather than as my personal account. Otherwise, I leave it disabled for security purposes. But if that's what you do, then yes, the Administrator account does indeed exist in Windows 10 and you can indeed enable it and use it as your personal account.

I said being an administrator, not using the administrator account. You have to use the disabled by default administrator account on 10 for real administrative privileges. 

[long gone 8,929]

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:30 AM, Twilight Kyle said:

I said being an administrator, not using the administrator account. You have to use the disabled by default administrator account on 10 for real administrative privileges. 

Oh, so being in the Administrators group? In which case my personal account is in that group. Unless I'm still not getting it.

 

Remember, be direct with me! I have a harder time picking up on what people say.

[ThePoniMan 164]

Meanwhile, I'm still in Windows 7... Huehuehue

 

And I do not plan on changing that.

 

Although we are going to be at that point soon when we will basically have to switch over... It's just a matter of time

Edited August 5, 2015 by Joseph Stallion

[Guest]

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:33 AM, Daring said:

Oh, so being in the Administrators group? In which case my personal account is in that group. Unless I'm still not getting it.

 

Remember, be direct with me! I have a harder time picking up on what people say.

You may be in that group in windows 10, but you lack certain privileges awarded to you in 7 for being in that same group. You have to use the actual administrator account to do those things.

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:35 AM, Joseph Stallion said:

Meanwhile, I'm still in Windows 7... Huehuehue

 

And I do not plan on changing that.

 

Although we are going to be at that point soon when we will basically have to switch over... It's just a matter of time

You won't have to switch to a newer OS until 2020, by then they'll probably have something better than they do now. But if they don't I'm not upgrading even if extended supported is dropped. Microsoft need to get their shit together, and the person that designed this new UI should be fired.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Guest

[ThePoniMan 164]

 

 

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:50 AM, Twilight Kyle said:

Microsoft need to get their shit together, and the person that designed this new UI should be fired.

 

I couldn't agree more with that.

[long gone 8,929]

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:50 AM, Twilight Kyle said:

You may be in that group in windows 10, but you lack certain privileges awarded to you in 7 for being in that same group. You have to use the actual administrator account to do those things.

You won't have to switch to a newer OS until 2020, by then they'll probably making upgrading a lot less painful.

My account in the VMware is in the Administrators group too. Although, could you explain what you meant by the "real administrators" group? I'm still not sure I'm getting what you mean.

 

Also, remember that Windows 10 is still very WIP. People who upgraded on the 29th are early adopters as well. The July 29th date was pretty nice, but it was pretty rushed as well. While it's much more complete than it was back when the first beta launched back in September (I remember that build, so many broken or missing things, but then again that's to be expected with unfinished software), it's still definitely not ready for everyone just yet.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Daring

[Guest]

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:54 AM, Daring said:

My account in the VMware is in the Administrators group too.

 

Also, remember that Windows 10 is still very WIP. People who upgraded on the 29th are early adopters as well. The July 29th date was pretty nice, but it was pretty rushed as well. While it's much more complete than it was back when the first beta launched back in September (I remember that build, so many broken or missing things, but then again that's to be expected with unfinished software), it's still definitely not ready for everyone just yet.

Well that's great, if they wanted me to stick with it they shouldn't have released a product they were unsatisfied with. It's not a WIP, the technical preview was a WIP, this is a finished product, so it had better be ready for primetime. Virtual machines run differently than physical, which is probably why you got that message in the first place. I really don't know how else to explain it to you. Windows 10 unnecessarily removed privileges from the administrator group that they had in 7.

 

Your computer isn't configured the way mine is, so obviously you're going to have different results.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Guest

[long gone 8,929]

  On 2015-08-05 at 2:56 AM, Twilight Kyle said:

Well that's great, if they wanted me to stick with it they shouldn't have released a product they were unsatisfied with. It's not a WIP, the technical preview was a WIP, this is a finished product, so it had better be ready for primetime. Virtual machines run differently than physical, which is probably why you got that message in the first place. I really don't know how else to explain it to you. Windows 10 unnecessarily removed privileges from the administrator group that they had in 7.

 

Your computer isn't configured the way mine is, so obviously you're going to have different results.

Oh, but I do have physical computers running Windows 7 too! And I got the same message, I need to provide administrator permission to move files to C:\Windows\*.

 

Also, can you please explain what you mean by the "true administrators" group? Because as far as I'm concerned there's only one Administrators group, and then the Administrator superuser.

[Guest]

  On 2015-08-05 at 3:06 AM, Daring said:

Oh, but I do have physical computers running Windows 7 too! And I got the same message, I need to provide administrator permission to move files to C:\Windows\*.

 

Also, can you please explain what you mean by the "true administrators" group? Because as far as I'm concerned there's only one Administrators group, and then the Administrator superuser.

You're not understanding what I'm saying, I've said it over and over. Windows 7's administrative group, has permissions that WERE REMOVED IN WINDOWS 10. Therefore Windows 10 administrators are DIFFERENT from Windows 7 Administrators. Despite being in the same group called ADMINISTRATORS.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Guest

[long gone 8,929]

  On 2015-08-05 at 3:13 AM, Twilight Kyle said:

You're not understanding what I'm saying, I've said it over and over. Windows 7's administrative group, has permission that WERE REMOVED IN WINDOWS 10. Therefore Windows 10 administrators are DIFFERENT from Windows 7 Administrators.

Oh? Can you name some instead of just simply saying that they were removed?

[Guest]

  On 2015-08-05 at 3:13 AM, Daring said:

Oh? Can you name some instead of just simply saying that they were removed?

I've said that several times as well, the ability to easily move and modify the contents of C: root and C:\Windows\*.* I don't know what else off-hand but my point is, it's a pain in the ass to do something in windows 10 that I could've done far easier in 7. That's all I'm saying.

[long gone 8,929]

  On 2015-08-05 at 3:15 AM, Twilight Kyle said:

I've said that several times as well, the ability to easily move and modify the contents of C: root and C:\Windows\*.* I don't know what else off-hand but my point is, it's a pain in the ass to do something in windows 10 that I could've done far easier in 7. That's all I'm saying.

Ah. Well, to be honest, I've been seeing the complete opposite. I always got prompted to give administrator privileges when moving to or working with files in C:\Windows\* in Windows 7, because those are protected system files. MS doesn't want you fucking around with those. Not seeing anything different here. In fact, you probably changed your UAC settings and forgot about it. Check them, please.

[Guest]

Just got 10, trying it out to decide if I want to keep it or not. So far things I like:

 

• RAM usage significantly lower. Noticing about a 20% decrease in RAM usage while idling.
• Everything works that worked on 8.1 as far as I am seeing.
• You get to keep your version that you were on. Example: I was on 8.1 Pro and I was not downgraded to 10 Home, instead I got 10 Pro.
• Nicer looking Lock screen
• "Start" Menu (sort of) returning. I previously just used Start8 when I was on 8.1 so I just had a Windows 7 styled Start menu. However 10 brings back the start menu... Sort of anyways.
• A lot of driver support already despite being so new.
• Microsoft will make your your PC is 100% compatible before sending you your download (though you can just install right away if you don't care).
• Notification Center is kind of helpful.
• Personalization features are nifty.
• Speed is great. I'm noticing a slight increase in speed and reduction in load times from Windows 8.1.
• Tablet mode makes the tackiness of 8.1's Modern UI work better to blend tablet users and desktop users. It does not feel like the Desktop users were left out this time with Windows 10.
• Ability to offer feedback with ease is nice.

However it's not all flawless and there are definitely some criticisms I have with it. I figured I'd be as objective as possible and list the good and the bad. Please note I'm not trying to bash the OS, just listing some legit criticisms that I have. Most of these will probably be fixed in an update though.

 

• Some minor bugs with the taskbar at the bottom. Stuff sometimes will display the icon along with the window when you pin an app, like so: http://puu.sh/jpOdL/b66f680a24.png
• Windows 10 will reset some of your default apps to the new Microsoft ones, like Edge. Fortunately this is a simple change.
• The "start" menu is really... Meh. The new attempt to organize it just seems to make it take longer to scroll to apps and find them. For some, I'm sure this will be an improvement, but I don't like how much scrolling it takes to get through the bigger icons and the alphabetical organization icons. Since I don't really use any of the Modern UI apps, the right part of the menu is virtually useless.
• Edge sucks. It's a huge improvement over Internet Explorer, but you're not fooling anyone Microsoft, it's still Internet Explorer almost down to the icon.
• Cortana is virtually useless to me. She only uses Bing, Edge, and all Microsoft products. Since I use Chrome and Google and do not feel like switching just because some voice from my computer doesn't want to adjust to that, it renders the feature totally useless to me.

 

My verdict on my first hour or so: 10 is not a "necessary" upgrade if you're on 7 or 8.1 UNLESS you are noticing some slowdowns. At this point I would say it is only really a "needed" upgrade if you really need that lower RAM consumption which is better than 7 and 8.1. However if you were expecting Cortana to be revolutionary or something like that... Well, you may be a bit disappointed. Ultimately Windows 10 is more about polishing Windows rather than completely reinventing it. However if you were one of those on 8 or 8.1 who could not stand it, I'd take advantage of the upgrade.

[Guest]

  On 2015-08-05 at 3:18 AM, Daring said:

Ah. Well, to be honest, I've been seeing the complete opposite. I always got prompted to give administrator privileges when moving to or working with files in C:\Windows\* in Windows 7, because those are protected system files. MS doesn't want you fucking around with those. Not seeing anything different here. In fact, you probably changed your UAC settings and forgot about it. Check them, please.

MS doesn't get to decide what files I should and shouldn't be fucking around with, If I change them, then I know what I'm doing and Windows preventing me from doing it 'for more own good' is stupid. Power users change system files all the time. In any case, as I've said that's not the only reason I changed back to 7. 10 is garbage. It's imitation windows 7.

[long gone 8,929]

  On 2015-08-05 at 3:58 AM, Twilight Kyle said:

MS doesn't get to decide what files I should and shouldn't be fucking around with, If I change them, then I know what I'm doing and Windows preventing me from doing it 'for more own good' is stupid. Power users change system files all the time. In any case, as I've said that's not the only reason I changed back to 7. 10 is garbage. It's imitation windows 7.

All right. Then... how about if we agree to disagree? Since this is clearly getting nowhere.