gaming Xbox One "Backwards" compatibility

[Guest]

I know I rag on Microsoft a lot, but when you regularly say stuff that is completely incorrect and BS, I call you out on it even if you're my favorite game company. Microsoft has recently kind of taken the cake in ludicrous statements and idiotic thoughts with their "backwards" compatibility for the Xbox One. So as we all know, the Xbox One will be getting the list of 100+ games that are compatible with it for the 360 in 4 days. However there are a couple of problems I see:

 

6+ of the games on their list that we have now are already available on the Xbox One as either remakes or On the Rare Replay collection... And I am willing to bet a few more will be as well upon the reveal of the full list. If you are only going to have 100 games on launch, I would probably make sure they are all unique titles that you can't get on the Xbox One already.

 

The second issue is their statements:

 

Microsoft believes this will lead to massive migration from the 360 to the Xbox One... Ummmm No? Being able to play the same games on the Xbox One is not going to convince me to buy one, it's NEW titles that will convince a majority of gamers. Not to mention 100 titles is fairly small. To top this off, Microsoft needs to focus on making the Xbox One better, not just going "Hey remember the 360? That sure was great, right?"

 

And of course how he stated that they will have the only next-gen console that will be backwards compatible. First of all, that is not worthy of praise, it should have been there 2 years ago. Second of all:

 

 

It's 100% false. The Wii U has almost full backwards compatibility and the PS4 has PSNow, which while many people do not like it, it DOES have backwards compatibility. Microsoft, are you really just going to state things that are 100% untrue now? Or do you not believe the Wii U counts? Or are you just ignoring that PSNow exists?

 

If Microsoft believes they will win more gamers over by making untrue statements and thinking no one will fact check, then they might be horribly mistaken.

 

I made a video on the subject:

 

https://youtu.be/elKvAEwO-9k

 

 

What do you guys think?

[Limeblossom 482]

Remember Peter Molyneux? He also said some weird things and thought the "One Button Only" gameplay would be commonly used.

I still have my 360 and I'm not planning to get the One.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 42,203]

Okay, I really need to respond this. I am gonna bold what you said and respond with non-bolded text.

 

I know I rag on Microsoft a lot, but when you regularly say stuff that is completely incorrect and BS, I call you out on it even if you're my favorite game company. Microsoft has recently kind of taken the cake in ludicrous statements and idiotic thoughts with their "backwards" compatibility for the Xbox One. So as we all know, the Xbox One will be getting the list of 100+ games that are compatible with it for the 360 in 4 days. However there are a couple of problems I see:

 

6+ of the games on their list that we have now are already available on the Xbox One as either remakes or On the Rare Replay collection... And I am willing to bet a few more will be as well upon the reveal of the full list. If you are only going to have 100 games on launch, I would probably make sure they are all unique titles that you can't get on the Xbox One already.

 

This is not a fair assessment. The reason why they are not making all games backwards compatible at once or they might have a bunch of first party titles at first, is because thye have licensing issues to worry about. They have to get permission from publishers before they can do this, that is not their fault. They clearly will be putting more and more games on there, but the limitations are there for a reason.

 

The second issue is their statements:

 

Microsoft believes this will lead to massive migration from the 360 to the Xbox One... Ummmm No? Being able to play the same games on the Xbox One is not going to convince me to buy one, it's NEW titles that will convince a majority of gamers. Not to mention 100 titles is fairly small. To top this off, Microsoft needs to focus on making the Xbox One better, not just going "Hey remember the 360? That sure was great, right?"

 

Many things wrong here. First off, I think you are misinterpreting what they mean by a lot of people migrating from 360 to One because of this. What they mean is that many people may have not yet upgraded because they have 360 games that would not work on the new system, now that issue is resolved. Yeah, they only have 100 titles in the list right now, but that is the point, right now, again, licensing problems. Not really Microsoft's fault. My brother for example, he was not yet ready to get a One because of that very reason, but the moment he heard of backwards compatibility, he was convinced to get one and now he really enjoys it. And I am pretty sure that expanding the library of the One by 100's of titles IS improving it.

 

And of course how he stated that they will have the only next-gen console that will be backwards compatible. First of all, that is not worthy of praise, it should have been there 2 years ago. Second of all:

 

Should have been there two years ago? This is full software emulation, that is most likely not too easy to add.

 

It's 100% false. The Wii U has almost full backwards compatibility and the PS4 has PSNow, which while many people do not like it, it DOES have backwards compatibility. Microsoft, are you really just going to state things that are 100% untrue now? Or do you not believe the Wii U counts? Or are you just ignoring that PSNow exists?

 

You are correct on the Wii U, it has pretty good backwards compatibility features, but that is HARDWARE related, not software. PS Now....Very bad comparison. 99% of the world's population does not have internet that can handle it, so honestly, it is pretty terrible backwards compatibility if you ask me.  

 

If Microsoft believes they will win more gamers over by making untrue statements and thinking no one will fact check, then they might be horribly mistaken.

 

I made a video on the subject:

 

https://youtu.be/elKvAEwO-9k

 

 

What do you guys think? 

 

Honestly, I do not know what exactly your reasoning is here. The backwards compatibility here is awesome, it supports all of the DLC that the games offered (Wii U cannot do that), it supports all the multiplayer features (Wii servers are all gone now) and it runs incredibly well. Why exactly would you be complaining for an awesome new feature when you don't even own the system anyways?

 

 

[Guest]

I appreciate your response.

 

 

 

This is not a fair assessment. The reason why they are not making all games backwards compatible at once or they might have a bunch of first party titles at first, is because thye have licensing issues to worry about. They have to get permission from publishers before they can do this, that is not their fault. They clearly will be putting more and more games on there, but the limitations are there for a reason.

 

I actually don't believe licenses are an issue really. If I recall they said the publishers have to contact THEM to get their games on, which means the real problem is "will you give us more money for us to allow you to port your game to the Xbox One?"

 

Also, 2 years? 2 years and 100 games. There is no excuse when the Wii U has pretty much 100% compatibility for Wii games.

 

 

 

Many things wrong here. First off, I think you are misinterpreting what they mean by a lot of people migrating from 360 to One because of this. What they mean is that many people may have not yet upgraded because they have 360 games that would not work on the new system, now that issue is resolved.

 

Unless you have any games that are not on that list, which is probably half of everyone. Also it's clear that people are not holding out on upgrading due to a lack of backwards compatibility, if that was the case, why is the Wii U not selling? People are waiting for NEW software that justifies buying a new system.

 

 

 

Yeah, they only have 100 titles in the list right now, but that is the point, right now, again, licensing problems. Not really Microsoft's fault.

 

No information has come out to suggest there is any issue with licensing. Considering in the past making the old console games play on the new console was never a licensing concern, I am going to believe that is also the case here. I am pretty confident this is because not every dev was willing to give Microsoft money. Also they had 2 years... Two years to do this. In 2 years, The Wii U STILL has the ENTIRE Wii library. There is virtually no excuse for such a small list, and including games that are ALREADY AVAILABLE on the One on that list. When the list is already so small, you can't include games already available.

 

 

 

My brother for example, he was not yet ready to get a One because of that very reason, but the moment he heard of backwards compatibility, he was convinced to get one and now he really enjoys it. And I am pretty sure that expanding the library of the One by 100's of titles IS improving it.

 

It's an improvement, but not really a "significant" one.

 

 

 

Should have been there two years ago? This is full software emulation, that is most likely not too easy to add.

 

Coming from a computer guy who understands the logistics of it. The Xbox One could have just included some of the hardware from the 360 and gotten native support. That being said, Microsoft could have built an emulator years ago without the need for such parts that would have a much wider range of compatible games at this point.

 

 

 

You are correct on the Wii U, it has pretty good backwards compatibility features, but that is HARDWARE related, not software.

 

Actually it's both.

 

 

 

PS Now....Very bad comparison.

 

Hey, it sucks, but it IS an option. You can't claim you're the "only" one doing it when BOTH of your competitors are doing it. One of them doing it better than you.

 

 

 

99% of the world's population does not have internet that can handle it, so honestly, it is pretty terrible backwards compatibility if you ask me.  

 

99% might be a bit high of an estimate...

 

 

 

Honestly, I do not know what exactly your reasoning is here.

 

My reasoning is they claimed they would be the ONLY ones doing this, but I have proven that both of their competitors have been doing it for a while now. That's a fact. The fact that Microsoft is making untrue statements tells me about their ethics. They are willing to just say anything regardless if it's true or not, and that leans me away from putting my money down for their consoles if that is how they are going to play. It brings their credibility into question, which I think is quite a fair assessment.

 

 

 

The backwards compatibility here is awesome, it supports all of the DLC that the games offered

 

For all 100 games. And the Wii U does actually, it's just that not a lot of Wii games had DLC.

 

 

 

it supports all the multiplayer features

 

That much I will give you is true.

 

 

 

and it runs incredibly well

 

That is still debatable. We don't know yet. On the E3 presentation, it looked like it was fairly slow.

 

 

 

Why exactly would you be complaining for an awesome new feature when you don't even own the system anyways?

 

Because the feature is being praised like it's this amazing thing that no one has ever done, and it is 2 years late. On top of this, it's bringing Microsoft's credibility and ethics into question. I am a little disappointed, because I am a little less likely to throw down money now if Microsoft's business practices are to flat out lie to their consumers, make nonsense excuses as to why they are lacking and make unsmart decisions such as making you have to install all of your 360 games. Which is an incredibly stupid idea on a console that does not have a removable hard drive and ships stock with 500GB and just RECENTLY pumped out a 1TB. It's not a series of unsmart decisions and I am now very weary of buying and Xbox One, when I previously was all for it.

 

I feel that people should be allowed to see and read my thoughts because it may affect their purchase as well. Not to mention get conversation going. Am I not entitled to have an opinion just because I have not thrown my cash to Microsoft? If anything it means I can possibly be more objective than you because I will not feel the need to justify my spent money.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Guest

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 42,203]

 

Key Sharkz, on 05 Nov 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

I appreciate your response.

 

Thanks, I guess. 

 

 

I actually don't believe licenses are an issue really. If I recall they said the publishers have to contact THEM to get their games on, which means the real problem is "will you give us more money for us to allow you to port your game to the Xbox One?"

 

Also, 2 years? 2 years and 100 games. There is no excuse when the Wii U has pretty much 100% compatibility for Wii games.

 

You don't 'believe' licenses are an issue? They are. Microsoft has to put all of these games on their new servers for the Xbox One, as far as I know, you cannot do that unless you get permission from the companies to do so. 

 

 

Unless you have any games that are not on that list, which is probably half of everyone. Also it's clear that people are not holding out on upgrading due to a lack of backwards compatibility, if that was the case, why is the Wii U not selling? People are waiting for NEW software that justifies buying a new system.

 

 

 

 

No information has come out to suggest there is any issue with licensing. Considering in the past making the old console games play on the new console was never a licensing concern, I am going to believe that is also the case here. I am pretty confident this is because not every dev was willing to give Microsoft money. Also they had 2 years... Two years to do this. In 2 years, The Wii U STILL has the ENTIRE Wii library. There is virtually no excuse for such a small list, and including games that are ALREADY AVAILABLE on the One on that list. When the list is already so small, you can't include games already available.

 

Again, licensing issues. They are a fickle thing, but blame the publishers for that. Not Microsoft. 

 

 

It's an improvement, but not really a "significant" one.

 

Your opinion.

 

 

Coming from a computer guy who understands the logistics of it. The Xbox One could have just included some of the hardware from the 360 and gotten native support. That being said, Microsoft could have built an emulator years ago without the need for such parts that would have a much wider range of compatible games at this point.

 

Which, if they did add the 360 hardware, the price on the One would have been higher. Which you would have complained about that too. 

 

 

Actually it's both.

 

And?

 

 

Hey, it sucks, but it IS an option. You can't claim you're the "only" one doing it when BOTH of your competitors are doing it. One of them doing it better than you.

 

 

 

 

99% might be a bit high of an estimate...

 

Okay, 98%. Until Google Fiber becomes mainstream in every household, the vast majority of people do not have internet capable of streaming 20+GB games.

 

 

My reasoning is they claimed they would be the ONLY ones doing this, but I have proven that both of their competitors have been doing it for a while now. That's a fact. The fact that Microsoft is making untrue statements tells me about their ethics. They are willing to just say anything regardless if it's true or not, and that leans me away from putting my money down for their consoles if that is how they are going to play. It brings their credibility into question, which I think is quite a fair assessment.

 

 

 

 

For all 100 games. And the Wii U does actually, it's just that not a lot of Wii games had DLC.

 

All 100 games and more that they will be adding. 

 

 

That much I will give you is true.

 

 

 

 

That is still debatable. We don't know yet. On the E3 presentation, it looked like it was fairly slow.

 

Actually, I am in the Xbox Preview Program and I have had Backwards Compatibility for the past 4 months. It runs awesomely. It is so very smooth AND you can use all Xbox One features such as snapping apps, clip recording, screenshot taking and all of that for your 360 games. You can even stream the 360 games on Twitch with the One. So yeah, the feature works incredibly well.

 

 

Because the feature is being praised like it's this amazing thing that no one has ever done, and it is 2 years late. On top of this, it's bringing Microsoft's credibility and ethics into question. I am a little disappointed, because I am a little less likely to throw down money now if Microsoft's business practices are to flat out lie to their consumers, make nonsense excuses as to why they are lacking and make unsmart decisions such as making you have to install all of your 360 games. Which is an incredibly stupid idea on a console that does not have a removable hard drive and ships stock with 500GB and just RECENTLY pumped out a 1TB. It's not a series of unsmart decisions and I am now very weary of buying and Xbox One, when I previously was all for it.

 

Two words: External Hard Drive. I got a 4TB hard drive for $140. And before you say "but you have to spend more money for that!", you have to spend more money for memory on the PS4 as well, and that system has no 1TB consoles out there. And you have to install all 360 games because the games are downloaded to your system. 

 

I feel that people should be allowed to see and read my thoughts because it may affect their purchase as well. Not to mention get conversation going. Am I not entitled to have an opinion just because I have not thrown my cash to Microsoft? If anything it means I can possibly be more objective than you because I will not feel the need to justify my spent money.

 

I am not against you stating your thoughts, discussion is a good thing, but you seem to have this strange biased hatred towards Microsoft as a whole. That is the problem. It makes this feel pointless.

[Guest]

 

 

You don't 'believe' licenses are an issue? They are. Microsoft has to put all of these games on their new servers for the Xbox One, as far as I know, you cannot do that unless you get permission from the companies to do so. 

 

Xbox Live games from the first Xbox ported over just fine with a wide compatibility rate. Not to mention 100 titles was all you could muster in negotiations? Not to mention how many companies do you honestly think are going to go "no, please don't make our game available to more customers". Not to mention I do not believe there is any licensing issue if they just say... Put in the parts to run 360 games natively like the Wii U did.

 

 

 

Again, licensing issues. They are a fickle thing, but blame the publishers for that. Not Microsoft. 

 

There is little to no evidence that licensing is the big road block here, so until some comes up that verifies the issue is licensing (which I doubt for 90% of cases), I am not accepting that as a defense.

 

 

 

Which, if they did add the 360 hardware, the price on the One would have been higher. Which you would have complained about that too. 

 

Not if they hadn't insisted on the Kinnect, which they ended up ditching anyways. Or you know... Optimized and waited a bit longer to push the system out when production costs went down, which always happens.

 

 

 

And?

 

So, don't say the issue is one of the other. Half the reason people are not using the Xbox One is because there are not as much in terms of games on it that people want.

 

 

 

Okay, 98%. Until Google Fiber becomes mainstream in every household, the vast majority of people do not have internet capable of streaming 20+GB games.

 

According to this, over 70% of Americans have broadband... Broadband is more than capable of streaming these games... :U

 

 

 

All 100 games and more that they will be adding. 

 

 

Which should be larger of a list by now. 2 years, 4 months in developer preview as well apparently.

 

 

 

Actually, I am in the Xbox Preview Program and I have had Backwards Compatibility for the past 4 months. It runs awesomely. It is so very smooth AND you can use all Xbox One features such as snapping apps, clip recording, screenshot taking and all of that for your 360 games. You can even stream the 360 games on Twitch with the One. So yeah, the feature works incredibly well.

 

Ah, well that is good news at least.

 

 

 

Two words: External Hard Drive.

 

Sure, it's a solution, but which sounds better to you? Using up one of the systems USB ports and having a bulky thing that drags more power sitting on top of your system, or putting a hard drive inside of it that uses less power, no USB ports and doesn't need to read through USB (which is slower than directly connected). It's not as good of a solution as their competitor has. I know computer specs, and the external hard drive solution isn't exactly a great one.

 

Not to mention, I can get a 4TB internal hard drive that will fit in the PS4 for $124 on Newegg, so yeah...

 

 

 

and that system has no 1TB consoles out there.

 

That is incorrect. Several 1TB systems were released right before the Halo 5 1TB Xbox One came out. There have also been Gamestops that were authorized by Sony to sell PS4s with 2TB hard drives inside of them for $450, which at the time of sale was only $50 more, which is about $50 less than what you would have paid for the hard drive independently. You really need to check your your facts before presenting a counter argument.

 

 

 

And you have to install all 360 games because the games are downloaded to your system. 

 

Which there is no reason for. You didn't need to install them on the 360.

 

 

 

I am not against you stating your thoughts, discussion is a good thing, but you seem to have this strange biased hatred towards Microsoft as a whole. That is the problem. It makes this feel pointless.

 

While I am sorry you feel that way, I must inform you that you are indeed mistaken. I owned the 360 and for a good 2-3 years it was my console of choice. I still believe the 360 controller is the best PC gaming controller in existence, and I still believe that Xbox Live was far superior to PSN on the 7th gen consoles, and that Halo 3 was a masterpiece. I also believe that Windows is far superior to Mac OSX, and that Microsoft has revolutionized technology numerous times. I also believe the Microsoft Surface Pro is going to give Waccom a run for their money.

 

That being said, I can still acknowledge when they do something insanely stupid, incorrect, or just a bad idea in general. I have no hatred towards Microsoft and anyone who talks to me regularly will know that I criticize Sony, AND Nintendo as well. I do not play favorites and for that reason I don't pull punches on anyone.

 

The fact that Sony has taken this long to introduce name changing on PSN and PS1/PS2 classics is also a disgrace on their part. The fact that the Wii U is a total mess is 100% Nintendo's fault. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone needs to be called out on them. It just so happens that Microsoft makes a lot of mistakes as of lately, and thus they are getting called out on them.

 

I feel kind of that you have a bias towards Microsoft because you bought the console and do not want to feel like you got a "bad" deal in any capacity so you find yourself unable to admit the flaws and reality of a situation. Come on man, let's meet in the middle here. With what I have just told you about how there is probably VERY LITTLE issue with licensing, that 360 emulation on the Xbox One is far easier to achieve than Microsoft is admitting and that they have MORE THAN ENOUGH money to have gotten it out on launch with little to no affect to the price (even if it did affect the price I am sure fans would have gladly accepted the higher price for full 360 support), and that they have had 2 years to get titles working that 100 games with a handful of them ALREADY BEING AVAILABLE is kind of not that impressive on their part. Can you admit that perhaps there was far more they could have accomplished? That perhaps this is in fact 2 years late?

 

The Xbox One has dropped over $100 in price in the time it took them to do this. Anyone worried about not getting the Xbox One because of the price already can afford it now AND a 360 for the same price they could have bought the Xbox One for. I could have taken the $500 I originally would have paid for an Xbox One and spend $400 on the system and still have enough money to get a 360 with a 20GB hard drive with GTAIV, CoD 4, Halo 4, Borderlands 2, Red Dead Redemption, and Mass Effect 3. Anyone who was waiting to switch due to being worried that they wouldn't be able to play their 360 games clearly is not a HUGE crowd.

 

Can you deny that $79 for a 360 with 6 AAA title kind of outweighs the need to wait for the Xbox One to get backwards compatibility support? Considering that $100 you save on the Xbox One is going to instantly be dumped into a hard drive for these 360 games ANYWAYS? It's literally almost cheaper just to get a 360.

[Script Dangles 231]

I think those are fair criticisms, Key.  To be honest, in this day and age, I'm surprised that ALL systems don't have complete backwards compatibility.

[Guest]

I think those are fair criticisms, Key.  To be honest, in this day and age, I'm surprised that ALL systems don't have complete backwards compatibility.

I can understand not having like... Compatibility for like the original Xbox, but for the console that is still on the market? I mean Sony is guilty of it too with the PS4 not being able to play PS1, PS2 or PS3.

[Script Dangles 231]

I think your concerns are very valid and real, Key.  I didn't feel like you were picking on MS to the exclusion of all other companies.  You just saw a set of major drawbacks and commented on them.  Nothing at all wrong -- or biased -- about that at all, from where I stand.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 42,203]

I think another issue is that you are stating all of this as if you KNOW exactly all the technical details involved and all of the processes. I already told you that Microsoft has to ask permission from publishers, they stated this directly. They said that they can make all of the 360 games backwards compatible, they can, but it is an issue with the publishers. Why that issue is there is most likely issues with licensing, which you are denying here. Hell, they said they might be able to make original Xbox games compatible too but that might be a bit more complicated, they said they are looking into it. 

 

Why not celebrate this fact that they are trying all of this? Just because they don't have a million games ready to go at the launch of the feature doesn't make it bad, because as I told you, the features runs awesomely and it enhances your 360 titles with the One's features. 

 

Some of your other points pretty much go against all forms of backwards compatibility so...there is that too. And about the pricing of External Hard drives, my boyfriend got a 5TB one for $130, so there is that. And what makes them bulky? My External is sitting below my Xbox One on my TV stand, completely out of view, IT makes no noise, it is completely out of the way, and it works flawlessly, so...no, not an issue. Also, Microsoft introduced the 1TB conoles an entire year before Sony did.

 

Again, I am perfectly fine with you bring up these points, but you are not convincing me here. 

[Guest]

 

 

I think another issue is that you are stating all of this as if you KNOW exactly all the technical details involved and all of the processes. I already told you that Microsoft has to ask permission from publishers, they stated this directly.

 

Well I kind of DO know a good chunk of the technical side. Not 100% of it, but I know that it's far more possible than they are making it out to be. I did go to school for computers, hardware and I've studied game design, and the video game industry since before I can remember. So I'd say that I am fairly well informed in this subject. You also shouldn't simply believe that just because Microsoft says it that means it's 100% the truth. I think it really boils down to that publishers need to pay some money to Microsoft and Microsoft is not making the offer that appealing.

 

 

 

They said that they can make all of the 360 games backwards compatible, they can, but it is an issue with the publishers. Why that issue is there is most likely issues with licensing, which you are denying here. Hell, they said they might be able to make original Xbox games compatible too but that might be a bit more complicated, they said they are looking into it. 

 

Original Xbox games should be far easier to convert due to both platforms being x86 based. That and they never had licensing issues with bringing a HUGE library to the 360 on day one. I am not denying that licensing issues exist, but I am denying the level of an issue that you're presenting. I find it extremely doubtful.

 

 

 

Why not celebrate this fact that they are trying all of this? Just because they don't have a million games ready to go at the launch of the feature doesn't make it bad, because as I told you, the features runs awesomely and it enhances your 360 titles with the One's features. 

 

And that's all fine and good, but I'm not going to praise them for something that should have been there on day one and that should be FAR more advanced after 2 years. I do not congratulate half assed work.

 

 

 

Some of your other points pretty much go against all forms of backwards compatibility so...there is that too. And about the pricing of External Hard drives, my boyfriend got a 5TB one for $130,

 

Would you happen to know the specs of said hard drive? Also for $130, I could just get another 360 with like... 10 games. So really it's CHEAPER to just play your games on your 360.

 

 

 

so there is that. And what makes them bulky? My External is sitting below my Xbox One on my TV stand, completely out of view, IT makes no noise, it is completely out of the way, and it works flawlessly, so...no, not an issue. 

 

Maybe not an issue to you, but I can DEFINITELY see it being an issue to others. For those with limited TV space, and that use USB accessories, the Xbox One pretty much has one of its ports always hogged. That and external hard drives are going to be slower. In games where load times and latency makes a big difference like in a competitive game of CoD, that will matter.

 

 

 

Again, I am perfectly fine with you bring up these points, but you are not convincing me here. 

 

And that is perfectly fine! I am only asking you to remove the fanboy glasses for a moment and look at this objectively and ask yourself questions and answer them HONESTLY and not answer through the straight jacket of fear of insulting a system you bought. It's not an insult to admit a flaw.

 

Can you deny that removable hard drives may have been a good idea?

Can you deny that a 1TB would have been a better choice to ship the console with?

Can you deny that a BIGGER library of 360 games might have been more impressive?

Can you deny that not needing an external would be a better option?

Can you deny that it was probably not wise to make claims like you'd be the ONLY console supporting backwards compatibility when it's 100% not true?

 

 

I am not asking you to admit the system is a pile of dog turds, I'm asking you to admit that there are some choices they could have made better. 

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 42,203]

I suggest not calling me a fanboy, I love Xbox, but I know when they screw up. You just are not convincing me here. 

 

Can you deny that removable hard drives may have been a good idea?

 

Yes, this would have been a good idea, sure, but is it such a huge problem that you have to do all of this about it? You can buy an external, for cheap. They work incredibly well and they are perfectly fine. And my boyfriend bought the external because he wanted it for his One games, not 360 games. So, not sure why that point is there.

 

Can you deny that a 1TB would have been a better choice to ship the console with?

 

Nope, don't deny that at all, but...Nobody di at the time. Sony did not have a 1TB and the Wii U had and still has a measly 32GB to work with, so they all screwed up in that regard.

 

 

Can you deny that a BIGGER library of 360 games might have been more impressive?

 

Sure, it might have been, but things happen, I have already explained to you why. Licensing.  Which, by the way:  https://mobile.twitter.com/XboxP3/status/619612716605374464 There you go.

 

Can you deny that not needing an external would be a better option?

 

How is having a ton more memory a bad thing exactly? Also, again, this could be said for the Wii U and PS4 as well.

 

Can you deny that it was probably not wise to make claims like you'd be the ONLY console supporting backwards compatibility when it's 100% not true?

 

Where were the claims? Even then, that is just PR if they did, nothing else.  It is just like Sony saying that the PS4 is the 'best place to play' just because they get some DLC before Xbox does, PR. 

 

So yeah, there is all of that. 

[Megas 28,157]

It's worth noting that the Xbone was in development while this guy was still the Head of their Division

 

 

And last I remembered, he had less than flattering things to say about backwards compatibility.

 

The Xbone is still recovering from the colossal fuck-ups M$ made since its development, and I think we can all agree that the console was made without BC in mind(as apposed to the Wii U). The DRM had to be patched out, and they've been working on changing the software to allow it to be BC(abeit, not natively), which is why their method is so weird. The BC could be a ton better, yes, but hardware-wise, I believe there are plenty of hurdles they had to jump in order to get 360 games to work properly without compromising the console. The whole licensing games like they did with the OG Xbox games with the 360 is bullshit, and I believe that part shouldn't be an issue, but at this point I'd rather have some BC than no BC

[Guest]

 

 

Yes, this would have been a good idea, sure, but is it such a huge problem that you have to do all of this about it? You can buy an external, for cheap. They work incredibly well and they are perfectly fine. And my boyfriend bought the external because he wanted it for his One games, not 360 games. So, not sure why that point is there.

 

 

Because all 360 games will be REQUIRED to be installed on the hard drive. If you are coming from the 360, you may have up to 10 years worth of games built up. Making the external mandatory for many people. An external is slower, as it can only go as fast as the USB port allows, which means for online games, load times can be affected, as can other aspects. Latency becomes an issue in competitive games and every little millisecond counts.

 

 

 

Nope, don't deny that at all, but...Nobody di at the time. Sony did not have a 1TB and the Wii U had and still has a measly 32GB to work with, so they all screwed up in that regard.

 

Yes, and they both are stupid for that, but at least with the PS4 you could upgrade internally without wasting a USB port, or be forced to run a hard drive through USB which is slower, less efficient and adds unnecessary clutter to the system which could be fixed by just letting the hard drive rest inside.

 

 

 

Sure, it might have been, but things happen, I have already explained to you why. Licensing.  Which, by the way:  https://mobile.twitt...612716605374464 Thereyou go.

 

I wouldn't believe everything Microsoft claims since they have flat out lied before. Also there are TONS of games that do not have soundtracks which would cause licensing issues, I also am kind of scratching my head as to why it was not an issue for Nintendo but somehow is an issue for Microsoft. I am calling bullshit.

 

 

 

How is having a ton more memory a bad thing exactly? Also, again, this could be said for the Wii U and PS4 as well.

 

 

Read what I said, not NEEDING and external. I.e. being able to have the memory internal, not taking up extra physical space, a USB port and being constrained to USB 2.0 speeds. To give you an example of the speeds we are talking about here:

 

USB 2.0 is 480Mbit/s

eSATA can go up to 6Gbit/s depending on the chip. That's around 9 times or so faster.

 

Do you see how that can affect a game where split second reactions matter?

 

 

 

Where were the claims? Even then, that is just PR if they did, nothing else.

 

That is not PR. It's claiming a fact, saying you're the "Best place to play" is subjective, it's not trying to state a fact. Saying "We are the ONLY console with backwards compatibility" is not a subjective statement, it's listing a fact. A fact that is incorrect. Also the statement was NOT released by their PR department, it was stated by Mike Ybarra the head of engineering. He does not work for their PR department.

 

Here's a link to the article if you don't believe me: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/100-xbox-one-backwards-compatibility-game-list-com/1100-6431937/ 

 

Why are you getting so defensive? It's just a game console man. I check my facts, I have sources, and I've studied this industry for a long time. So I'm not just some random Sony/Nintendo fan coming in to trash talk the Xbox One, I'm trying to be objective about the system and not letting the fact that I love Halo and other Microsoft products blind me to mistakes they are making, or making excuses for said mistakes.

 

There is no excuse for not making the hard drive removable and putting dependency on a USB 2.0 based external. There is zero excuse for it. It wouldn't have cost them anymore money.

 

 

It's worth noting that the Xbone was in development while this guy was still the Head of their Division

 

 

And last I remembered, he had less than flattering things to say about backwards compatibility.

 

The Xbone is still recovering from the colossal fuck-ups M$ made since its development, and I think we can all agree that the console was made without BC in mind(as apposed to the Wii U). The DRM had to be patched out, and they've been working on changing the software to allow it to be BC(abeit, not natively), which is why their method is so weird. The BC could be a ton better, yes, but hardware-wise, I believe there are plenty of hurdles they had to jump in order to get 360 games to work properly without compromising the console. The whole licensing games like they did with the OG Xbox games with the 360 is bullshit, and I believe that part shouldn't be an issue, but at this point I'd rather have some BC than no BC

 

Exactly! They are just claiming this licensing thing which I am sure is only affecting a SMALL amount of games to cover up the real reasoning.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 42,203]

I am not getting defensive, you are just not convincing. Why are you so adamant to bash a game console? It is just a game console, one you don't even own. 

 

I am getting bored of this conversation, though it seems quite one sided from the start. 

[takai 1,060]

This sounds like a personal problem rather than an objective analysis on backwards compatibility.

 

Many people are not sold on remasters or HD re-releases, so having the previous generation games on the list is actually a positive.

 

You may not be sold on backwards compatibility, but it is a huge selling point for any console. There's a very large number of people who were waiting for this feature before buying.

 

A large majority of the gaming community does not consider the Wii U a part of the next generation. PSNow does not count as it requires you to purchase/rent and stream games for a set time as compared to actually putting in a previous generation disc.

[Script Dangles 231]

Let me add something positive to this conversation:

I love your avatar, Takai.  

[StephenP 106]

Microsoft is the worst with backward compatability.

I mean look at the XBox 360. It was "backward compatable" with original XBox games... sometimes.

The 360 used some sort of incredibly picky built-in emulator. So good luck finding original XBox games that will work, because chances are it will run incredibly slowly, both in loading times and in frame rate. That is, if the game is recognized by the console at all.

[Guest]

I am not getting defensive, you are just not convincing. Why are you so adamant to bash a game console? It is just a game console, one you don't even own. 

 

I am getting bored of this conversation, though it seems quite one sided from the start. 

No hard feelings and I am not "bashing" it.

 

I am criticizing it. Bashing it is saying "It's shit, it's always shit, and it's the worst console ever made." Also just because I don't own it doesn't mean I can't add perspective, if anything as I said it means I will not be blinded by love and affection for Microsoft. You must not have seen me on Nintendo threads, I'm hard on them too, and on PC gaming. I just don't pull punches for anything is all. Favoritism is not my thing, and I feel favoritism towards a company is not beneficial to anyone. If I did nothing but praise Microsoft and all their shortcomings, I am telling other people to ignore them and thus tell Microsoft that it's all okay to do that crap.

 

I feel it's more productive to be honest, forward, and not allow ourselves to fall into the "It's my favorite console though!" trap.

 

While I may not be convincing to you (and that is perfectly fine!) my criticisms are actually quite common, and are recognized by many as the Xbox One is not selling, that is just a fact. The system is almost being outsold 2:1 by the PS4. By the end of the year, the PS4 may sell enough PS4s to double Xbox One sales. In Japan, the console is doing so poor that a snapshot of a week in Japan, they managed to sell only 210 Xbox Ones TOTAL across the entire country. In the same week they sold 44,692 PS4s. That is a problem, as install base will determine games, quality of games and release of games. If you're a developer, you're not going to release games as much or put priority on consoles that are not doing well.

 

 

 

This sounds like a personal problem rather than an objective analysis on backwards compatibility.

 

 

Oh not at all! (I also love your avatar by the way) My issue stems from the fact that statements are being made that are bold and untrue. Microsoft has handled backwards compatibility quite poor, and the fact that people are praising them for this pathetic attempt is rather ridiculous.

 

 

 

Many people are not sold on remasters or HD re-releases, so having the previous generation games on the list is actually a positive.

 

Only one game on the list that I mentioned was a remaster or HD re-release, the rest you can get in the Rare Replay set which literally just runs them through the 360 emulation for $1 a game.

 

 

 

You may not be sold on backwards compatibility, but it is a huge selling point for any console. There's a very large number of people who were waiting for this feature before buying.

 

True! However it's been 2 years now. I think that number has shrunk. A majority of those people have just accepted they will hold onto their 360 and use that for older games. 100 games after 2 years is quite tiny, and if even half my library isn't in that tiny list, I am pretty sure a lot of people are not going to sit there and wait for Microsoft to get around to it, especially for more niche games.

 

On top of this, while Xbox One sales went up after the announcement, they still seem to have fallen right back to the level they were. Xbox Is still selling poorly and we're only a few days from the update, so clearly not a lot of people were brought on board for this update. The numbers are clearly showing that.

 

 

 

A large majority of the gaming community does not consider the Wii U a part of the next generation.

 

Yeah, but Microsoft is a provider of games. They are only ignoring the Wii U because to acknowledge it means that they would have to admit their statement is wrong. Whether people "consider" the Wii U part of next gen or not is irrelevant because factually it is. Also Microsoft really doesn't have room to pretend it's not a contender considering they are pretty close to them in terms of sales. You can't pretend someone who is only 7% behind you is not a rival.

 

 

 

PSNow does not count as it requires you to purchase/rent and stream games for a set time as compared to actually putting in a previous generation disc.

 

And why does that make it not count? I wasn't aware we had rules of what counts and what doesn't? Then doesn't the Xbox One not count because it forces you to install games from a virtual download catalog? The only thing the disk is for now is authenticating. You're still downloading a digital copy and using the disk as a key. I mean if you want to go apples and oranges... 

[Lucky Shot 232]

In my experience, Microsoft insists on everything on your system being 100% made by Microsoft and generally intentionally blocks the use of every single program that is not explicitly authorized by Microsoft to be compatible with said technology.

 

I bring this up because the XBox 360's emulator, allowing it to run certain XBox games, was nowhere close to perfect for this reason. The vast majority of XBox games did not run correctly on it, because most games have special quirks unique to them that must be accounted for in the emulator, and Microsoft doesn't bother servicing their important products let alone unimportant ones, so the only games that were guaranteed to work were... Halo 1, pretty much, being the most important XBox game and all.

 

Point is, I have no faith that any backwards compatibility the XB1 has will be any better, because in addition to being lazy tyrants, Microsoft is simply inept at compatibility in general and always has been. Look at Windows 10. It isn't even compatible with its goddamn self.

[Guest]

In my experience, Microsoft insists on everything on your system being 100% made by Microsoft and generally intentionally blocks the use of every single program that is not explicitly authorized by Microsoft to be compatible with said technology.

 

I bring this up because the XBox 360's emulator, allowing it to run certain XBox games, was nowhere close to perfect for this reason. The vast majority of XBox games did not run correctly on it, because most games have special quirks unique to them that must be accounted for in the emulator, and Microsoft doesn't bother servicing their important products let alone unimportant ones, so the only games that were guaranteed to work were... Halo 1, pretty much, being the most important XBox game and all.

 

Point is, I have no faith that any backwards compatibility the XB1 has will be any better, because in addition to being lazy tyrants, Microsoft is simply inept at compatibility in general and always has been. Look at Windows 10. It isn't even compatible with its goddamn self.

While I agree with most of what you said, care to elaborate with Windows 10? I've been using it for months now and I am not seeing that issue.

[Lucky Shot 232]

While I agree with most of what you said, care to elaborate with Windows 10? I've been using it for months now and I am not seeing that issue.

 

Windows 10 randomly loses the use of the Start Menu & Cortana -- which it has a very specific error message for, indicating Microsoft is very familiar with this issue -- and when it does work, most of my programs aren't listed on it and can't be added to it manually. Trying to do so produces no reaction from Windows.

 

Windows 10 occasionally even has the nerve to tell me when I go and find them that they're not compatible and refuse to run them, even if they were working just fine two days ago, forcing me to repeatedly install the same damn program until that program's author has figured out how to satisfy Microsoft's strongarm tactics.

 

When I acquired my current headset, Windows 10 apparently corrupted itself as it immediately began failing to boot fully, to the point I thought I must have damaged the hard drive (I have a very old PC and was moving several magnetic objects around at about the same time.) This required dozens of reboots and manual cleanup in order to regain functionality.

[Guest]

Windows 10 randomly loses the use of the Start Menu & Cortana -- which it has a very specific error message for, indicating Microsoft is very familiar with this issue -- and when it does work, most of my programs aren't listed on it and can't be added to it manually. Trying to do so produces no reaction from Windows.

 

Windows 10 occasionally even has the nerve to tell me when I go and find them that they're not compatible and refuse to run them, even if they were working just fine two days ago, forcing me to repeatedly install the same damn program until that program's author has figured out how to satisfy Microsoft's strongarm tactics.

 

When I acquired my current headset, Windows 10 apparently corrupted itself as it immediately began failing to boot fully, to the point I thought I must have damaged the hard drive (I have a very old PC and was moving several magnetic objects around at about the same time.) This required dozens of reboots and manual cleanup in order to regain functionality.

Ah, I never use Cortana, so I guess I never noticed. I have had a hiccup or two, but nothing serious.

[Lucky Shot 232]

Ah, I never use Cortana, so I guess I never noticed. I have had a hiccup or two, but nothing serious.

 

I don't use Cortana either, but she is explicitly included in the error message whenever my Start Menu stops working. I presume they rely heavily on the same services, so for all diagnostic purposes they're the same thing.

[Guest]

So the list of games is out now, and I have to say... I'm a bit surprised. I was expecting a lot of the big popular AAA titles, but it is actually lacking a lot of basic titles that I would have expected to see. Some stuff that I noticed already:

 

• 8 of the titles are already available via the Rare Replay for $1 a piece via it.
• Gears of War is available as a remaster on the Xbox One.
• Lots of random arcade games, which could have just been ported to the Xbox One arcade, so very few of these games are games that you are going to have the physical disk for.
• Lots of ports that are available on other platforms such as Sega classics.
• Tons of games that have a very small following such as Monkey Island 2: Special Edition
• Lacking of basic popular titles such as Halo 3, 4, Reach, Skyrim.
• I count 3 out of my entire 360 library of 20+ games on this whole list. So yeah as I predicted, it's not going to be a reason to get people who have dumped 300+ hours into Skyrim to switch.