*SPOILERS* Is Queen Chrysalis, Luna in disguise?

[Tex 88]

That's unfortunate. Oh well, at least it was there.

 

It's probably one of, if not my favorite video by either one of them. That ending, dear god that ending.

[Silver fox 117 49]

That's unfortunate. Oh well, at least it was there.

 

It's probably one of, if not my favorite video by either one of them. That ending, dear god that ending.

Yeah i know the first 20 times I watched it. It gave me some huge shivers man I never knew I could be scared of a pony until I watched that. I think it was the music that creeped me out. Should make creepy pasta oh wait thats already been done.

[pinkiefan1287 610]

Okay lets say this. If your familiar with a double spy. Luna portrays to be Chrysalis the queen of the changelings. When she acts like Cadence being Chrysalis. If she acts exactly like Cadence being Chrysalis  That would be preposterous like you said Chrysalis did not have time to learn about Cadence. By being naive she shrugs off her true attention of being Nightmare moon. This may also be due to the fact that Luna may have wanted to battle Celestia as Chrysalis. To see if she is stronger and that is why she is surprised she beat her sister.  

 

But we know why Chrysalis was stronger. Shining Armors loves was a lot more powerful then she thought. Not because of some different form she took. It just seems odd to have all of these forms to just to keep a secret that u are still Nightmare Moon. Also the comic kinda shows that Luna and Chrysalis are not the same.

 

 

 

Also tell me this how does a changeling know about a network of mines beneath Canter-lot 1000 years ago ,emphasizing the 1000 years, when so many ponies don't know they even exist. You would have to have extreme knowledge off the castle and everything around it. Also tell me this, what would be the point of Chrysalis making a threat to Canter-lot if she was already inside. What would be the point if she could already get inside. Unless it was to make Canter-lot at full alert to test.   Are you guys familiar with the Silmarillion?

 

Never heard of Silmarillion. 

 

Well like I said, Chrysalis got into Canterlot by taking the form of just a random pony and maybe went to the library and got some info about locations around the castle that may not be used to much. It kinda disproves my idea that she did not have time to learn about Cadence, but she may have only had time to learn about the mines. As for the castle, she may have just learned it while in Cadences form.

 

As for why Chrysalis told her plan it's kinda simple. Weaken the pony who makes the barrier. Plant the seed of fear into them now so they well be to tired to fight and protect themselves. True she could have sneaked her army in and just attacked, but the barrier might have blown them away like in the episode. So that might be why she did it.

Edited April 16, 2013 by pinkiefan1287

[MyLittlePonyTales 273]

I was moreso thinking that perhaps Chrysalis was just working with Luna. After all, we never see her during the battle, and for some reason she came back through the shield to guard the night when we saw her in the episode. What was she doing outside the protective Canterlot shield? Giving the Changelings orders on the outside, that's what.

[Silver fox 117 49]

I was moreso thinking that perhaps Chrysalis was just working with Luna. After all, we never see her during the battle, and for some reason she came back through the shield to guard the night when we saw her in the episode. What was she doing outside the protective Canterlot shield? Giving the Changelings orders on the outside, that's what.

Holy crab waffles you may be on to something. Something big something the writers have been foreshadowing since Discord, or its just lazy writing.

[MyLittlePonyTales 273]

Holy crab waffles you may be on to something. Something big something the writers have been foreshadowing since Discord, or its just lazy writing.

I'm going with what I've been saying since Cadance showed up. Cadance has had far more airtime and episodes dedicated to her in the past season than Luna has had in the entire two seasons she existed. Do you know why? Because Cadance is a pretty pink princess, and Luna is dark coated, weird, and not very girly. Cadance has this perfect fairy tail life in which she marries her one true love and has an awesome happy life. And all little girls want to play with are pretty pink princesses. Thus, the toy that Hasbro wants to sell shall be the character to show up more frequently. Luna has been all but shunned since her first appearance. She's gotten no more than one major episode per season (and one of those was as Nightmare Moon), Cadance has already had four (and that was before Sleepless in Ponyville), five if you count Games Ponies Play.

 

So basically, I'm going with that the writers don't care about her as much because she's not pink or girly.

[Scythe 39]

While I doubt the show will ever have such an awesome twist, evil Luna was fun to think about.

 

The Elements of Harmony
Why would the Elements of Harmony change Luna if they didn’t seem to weaken Discord or change his personality either time we saw them used on him? When Discord came back he was as chaotic as ever-the anti-thesis of Harmony. If destiny wasn’t involved (destiny is cheap), Luna had a plan to free herself that took 1000 years.

Did Luna plan for the Elements to appear to weaken her? She tested the new bearers before they reached the elements. Why would she let anyone claim them, knowing they’d likely be used on her-and how would she know it wouldn’t be straight back to the moon? Unless maybe Luna knew a way around the Elements’ effects from the first time and wanted Celestia to think she’d been freed. As if evil was something apart from her and not related to choices.

Fairies, Changelings, and Souls of the Dead
Is Nightmare Night like Halloween, when the barrier between the living and dead is said to be thinnest? Why did Luna choose Nightmare Night to visit Ponyville? Ponyville is close to Tartarus(and the mysterious Everfree) if Twilight led Cerberus back within one day/night and had time to make sure no evil creatures escaped. Did creatures-not-considered-evil escape? Was visiting Ponyville an excuse to be visible in the region?

Later, someone lets out Cerberus, the guardian of Tartarus. In myth, Cerberus only allowed dead souls in, and nothing else in or out. Only a few beings have managed to beat or get past Cerberus. Orpheus had powerful, soothing music, Hercules was a demi-god with awesome strength, Fluttershy did her thing, and Twilight used a ball. Who else would be powerful enough to release Cerberus in Equestria? Who would have a use for the dead/evil monsters/gods/ZeusCelestia’s parents that Tartarus holds? In some European traditions, fairies are the souls of the dead. A word for a type of fairy? Changeling. Luna stole souls of the dead to make an army.

Cadance, Shining Armour, Luna & A Canterlot Wedding
Luna comes back from a 1000 year absence to discover Cadance, a perfect, loved, beautiful, new alicorn Princess close to Celestia. Did she feel replaced and jealous? Did she see a great strategic opportunity? Was she cruel and wanting to see how devastated Cadance would be to find her lover/fiancé married to someone else? I’m reminded of a quote from the Princess Bride movie by Prince Humperdinck ‘You truly love each other and so you might have been truly happy. Not one couple in a century has that chance, no matter what the story books say. And so I think no man in a century will suffer as greatly as you will.’

Where does Luna pretend to spend most of her time? It must be outside Canterlot if leaving/entering and ripping a hole in the Canterlot shield is not considered a problem by anyone/Celestia. A waiting army can’t pass through the shield, but Luna can.

Some other thoughts: Did Luna hide the bridesmaids because they saw through her disguise? Were their other friends/families noticing they weren’t all there? Any other problems hiding down in those caves?

Luna now knows Cadance and Shining Armour are powerful. Luckily, Cadance is later sent far away from Canterlot to the far away Crystal Empire, where she stays, far away.

 

Current Events
Luna stalks Scootaloo for a secret, nefarious reason.The Elements of Harmony create a new alicorn Princess in response to the looming threat.
 

[Tom The Diamond 1,830]

At first glance I honestly thought the title of the thread was a joke. I truly did. But, after watching that video, and thinking about it, that is actually a pretty interesting idea.

 

First of all, to really understand this theory, you have to be open minded about it. If you go in deadset that Luna is not Chrysalis, then you just won't be able to 'get' this theory. Heck, it's actually a very interesting one, and the video really explains it well. Just, sit back, and honestly think about how neat the idea of a Luna trying to reclaim her throne in secret is.

 

Also, a lot of people have been saying that Luna just doesn't seem like the kind of person to still hold the grudge. Well... That's kinda the point. Luna needs to appear reformed and normal, she has to be the last person you would suspect. The slightest miscalculation and she has a chance of spending the next few centuries on the moon.

 

Or heck, maybe Celestia already does suspect this treachery  but it hasn't been fully validated yet. After all, she might have suspicions, but no solid proof Luna is out to get her. And until she gets that, she can't do a darn thing against her. After all, not only would Celestia suddenly attacking Luna look bad, but she couldn't right now even if she wanted to. After all, the elements of Harmony, some of the greatest magical weapons, are no longer her's to wield. And on her own, she was beaten by Chrysalis (Luna) who received a boost from love. Perhaps without the love they would have been more equal. But hey, why not just bring the Mane 6 to use them? Well why would the Mane 6 turn Luna to stone unless they knew for certain she was evil? After all, they originally used the Elements of Harmony to shock her in an attempt to reform her, also changing her appearance  And to their knowledge, it worked, since she's been playing nice with the Mane 6 and Scoots as bonus. They have no reason to suspect a thing.

 

On a side note, remember Celestia wanting Discord reformed? She never said why. Perhaps she's trying to prepare herself should worst come to worst? Perhaps the series finale will be the epic final clash between the sun and the moon? The pawns are aligning themselves, eventually someone will foul up, and the real game will begin.

 

In short, entered with low expectations, got more then I bargained for. Definitely will be thinking about this tonight.

[Phoenix237 353]

Guys just watch and skip to 28:30 and this will prove this guy's theory like a lot. It is really mind blowing.

 

Like i said it makes sense Luna can shape-shift. She has done it in the Halloween episode

 

 

Lol kind of didn't read the dates. Man am I early to the party like a lot a lot. It really is amazing how he came up with this headcannon so early even before Brony curios and stuff.

I saw that video a while back

And honestly it makes sense. After watching the video and looking back at the wedding episodeds I honestly think they are on to something

If in the shows future she does revel herself to still be Nightmare Moon I will know that it wasn't just for the sake of a plot. I'll now know that it was being built up since that episode arc.

[Silver fox 117 49]

Hey guys i'm back to talk about more of this. I was gone over the weekend and was not able to be connected to the matrix.

 

While I doubt the show will ever have such an awesome twist, evil Luna was fun to think about.

 

The Elements of Harmony
Why would the Elements of Harmony change Luna if they didn’t seem to weaken Discord or change his personality either time we saw them used on him? When Discord came back he was as chaotic as ever-the anti-thesis of Harmony. If destiny wasn’t involved (destiny is cheap), Luna had a plan to free herself that took 1000 years.

Did Luna plan for the Elements to appear to weaken her? She tested the new bearers before they reached the elements. Why would she let anyone claim them, knowing they’d likely be used on her-and how would she know it wouldn’t be straight back to the moon? Unless maybe Luna knew a way around the Elements’ effects from the first time and wanted Celestia to think she’d been freed. As if evil was something apart from her and not related to choices.

Fairies, Changelings, and Souls of the Dead
Is Nightmare Night like Halloween, when the barrier between the living and dead is said to be thinnest? Why did Luna choose Nightmare Night to visit Ponyville? Ponyville is close to Tartarus(and the mysterious Everfree) if Twilight led Cerberus back within one day/night and had time to make sure no evil creatures escaped. Did creatures-not-considered-evil escape? Was visiting Ponyville an excuse to be visible in the region?

Later, someone lets out Cerberus, the guardian of Tartarus. In myth, Cerberus only allowed dead souls in, and nothing else in or out. Only a few beings have managed to beat or get past Cerberus. Orpheus had powerful, soothing music, Hercules was a demi-god with awesome strength, Fluttershy did her thing, and Twilight used a ball. Who else would be powerful enough to release Cerberus in Equestria? Who would have a use for the dead/evil monsters/gods/ZeusCelestia’s parents that Tartarus holds? In some European traditions, fairies are the souls of the dead. A word for a type of fairy? Changeling. Luna stole souls of the dead to make an army.

Cadance, Shining Armour, Luna & A Canterlot Wedding
Luna comes back from a 1000 year absence to discover Cadance, a perfect, loved, beautiful, new alicorn Princess close to Celestia. Did she feel replaced and jealous? Did she see a great strategic opportunity? Was she cruel and wanting to see how devastated Cadance would be to find her lover/fiancé married to someone else? I’m reminded of a quote from the Princess Bride movie by Prince Humperdinck ‘You truly love each other and so you might have been truly happy. Not one couple in a century has that chance, no matter what the story books say. And so I think no man in a century will suffer as greatly as you will.’

Where does Luna pretend to spend most of her time? It must be outside Canterlot if leaving/entering and ripping a hole in the Canterlot shield is not considered a problem by anyone/Celestia. A waiting army can’t pass through the shield, but Luna can.

Some other thoughts: Did Luna hide the bridesmaids because they saw through her disguise? Were their other friends/families noticing they weren’t all there? Any other problems hiding down in those caves?

Luna now knows Cadance and Shining Armour are powerful. Luckily, Cadance is later sent far away from Canterlot to the far away Crystal Empire, where she stays, far away.

 

Current Events
Luna stalks Scootaloo for a secret, nefarious reason.The Elements of Harmony create a new alicorn Princess in response to the looming threat.
 

I haven't even thought about that. The part with cerberus it makes so much sense now.

 

At first glance I honestly thought the title of the thread was a joke. I truly did. But, after watching that video, and thinking about it, that is actually a pretty interesting idea.

 

First of all, to really understand this theory, you have to be open minded about it. If you go in deadset that Luna is not Chrysalis, then you just won't be able to 'get' this theory. Heck, it's actually a very interesting one, and the video really explains it well. Just, sit back, and honestly think about how neat the idea of a Luna trying to reclaim her throne in secret is.

 

Also, a lot of people have been saying that Luna just doesn't seem like the kind of person to still hold the grudge. Well... That's kinda the point. Luna needs to appear reformed and normal, she has to be the last person you would suspect. The slightest miscalculation and she has a chance of spending the next few centuries on the moon.

 

Or heck, maybe Celestia already does suspect this treachery  but it hasn't been fully validated yet. After all, she might have suspicions, but no solid proof Luna is out to get her. And until she gets that, she can't do a darn thing against her. After all, not only would Celestia suddenly attacking Luna look bad, but she couldn't right now even if she wanted to. After all, the elements of Harmony, some of the greatest magical weapons, are no longer her's to wield. And on her own, she was beaten by Chrysalis (Luna) who received a boost from love. Perhaps without the love they would have been more equal. But hey, why not just bring the Mane 6 to use them? Well why would the Mane 6 turn Luna to stone unless they knew for certain she was evil? After all, they originally used the Elements of Harmony to shock her in an attempt to reform her, also changing her appearance  And to their knowledge, it worked, since she's been playing nice with the Mane 6 and Scoots as bonus. They have no reason to suspect a thing.

 

On a side note, remember Celestia wanting Discord reformed? She never said why. Perhaps she's trying to prepare herself should worst come to worst? Perhaps the series finale will be the epic final clash between the sun and the moon? The pawns are aligning themselves, eventually someone will foul up, and the real game will begin.

 

In short, entered with low expectations, got more then I bargained for. Definitely will be thinking about this tonight.

If this theory is true then I would have no doubt that Celestia would have her suspicions. Why else would she make Twilight an alicorn. Also what if Celestia let Luna beat her as Chrysalis to give her a false sense of power.

[Midnight Dragon 264]

...all I gotta say is...this theory is awesome!

 

Seriously, somepony needs to write a fanfic of this!

 

I'd write one myself, but...I'm on a terrible writer's block at the moment

[Silver fox 117 49]

I am currently writing a fanfic, and it may or may not include this theory. I guess you would just have to go to fim fiction and read it. Lol

[Scythe 39]

Hey guys i'm back to talk about more of this. I was gone over the weekend and was not able to be connected to the matrix.

 

I haven't even thought about that. The part with cerberus it makes so much sense now.

 

If this theory is true then I would have no doubt that Celestia would have her suspicions. Why else would she make Twilight an alicorn. Also what if Celestia let Luna beat her as Chrysalis to give her a false sense of power.

I hoped Cerberus turned up in Ponyville for something other than a gag. I don't know if Cerberus' escape being related to Luna's cryptic actions really makes sense, but it did fit in with any crackpot-worthy set of ideas.

 

Good luck with your fanfic, Silver Fox!

 

I also like the idea that Celestia does have some suspicions. Go Celestia!

[Fhaolan 4,483]

Like Bronycurious says in the video, "it's the only way it makes sense, and it's probably not true."

 

I'm torn. I love a good conspiracy theory, and this one is a good one. There are some holes, but they're smaller holes than what the nominal canon is trying to foster. It's something both epic and personal at the same time, hearkening back to some seriously deep mythology and literature. Exactly the kind of stuff that fascinates me about MLP FiM's potential.

 

However... however...   I don't wanna have Luna be a villain. I *like* Luna as the time-tossed young mare with regrets based on a dark, mysterious past.

 

Again, the reality is that neither version of Luna is likely to be explored in-show. Unless the format of the show changes up from episodic to full-on story arc. Which now that they've got enough episodes in the can for syndication, they might actually be able to pull off, and Hasbro has authorized weirder stuff for their IPs before (Transformers, for example).

[Silver fox 117 49]

I like for this to be true, but if we put in consideration that this is a little girls show, then this theory is just way over speculation. However, if this is true then it would be one of the best plot buildups ever, and Luna will be my new favorite villain. That's right, sit down Kefka. 

[Mint_Melody 91]

This just doesn't make any sense to me. First off, if Chrysalis/Luna can't even play Cadence well, how can she pretend to also be the 'good Luna' well enough to fool her own sister and everypony else? In Luna Eclipsed we saw a character who was not only deeply hurt by the rejection she suffered from her subjects but we could also see regret. Someone said in the previous comments that you can only judge a character on what they've said or done... but then what is the point of theater or acting as a whole? We have to be able to read into the expressions that Luna displays in that episode. Chrysalis couldn't even fake cry convincingly at the wedding. How could she display such drastic and real emotion in one aspect but not another? Also, we see Luna displaying many of these emotions on her own when no one is around to see, so if it's an act why keep up the charade when no one is around?

 

Second... how? I could maybe buy that Luna could shape shift into Chrysalis, but are we to believe she also can multiply herself into hundreds of changlings? If not, then why would the changlings obey Luna? What's in it for them? If it was to help them infiltrate Canterlot then they could have already done that without the giant swarm at the end of a Canterlot Wedding. In fact, they'd have been much more successful and could have feed of their preferred food of love without the swarm. Luna could have just got them in, imprisoned hundreds of ponies in the caves without anyone knowing, and let her real subjects feed.  But this didn't happen, so... it just doesn't add up to me.

And why for that matter? What purpose does this serve Luna? We see in episode 1 and 2, and in Luna Eclipsed that Luna is not evil for the sake of being evil. Luna was evil because she was under appreciated and felt rejected by her subjects... which no longer a problem since it's been thus proved that many of her subjects love her, her sister loves her, and the elements banished the darkness from her. And how would this even benefit Luna? Luna wanted to cover the world in never ending darkness so that people would be forced to appreciate her. She didn't want to make them miserable and if she ever did it was only so that they would be as miserable as she was. Luna isn't miserable anymore, and she's loved/appreciated (or at least ok with the fact people sleep at night)... so why be evil? How does this hugely elaborate plan suit Luna at all? Revenge? Maybe but that seems extremely petty. Furthermore how does disguising herself as Cadence and then revealing herself as Chrysalis help Luna's plot? She's now shown her alter ego/ other identity, and now people will be able to see it and sound the alarm when they do. I just don't think Luna is so foolish to believe that this attempt would work and if she DID think it would work, why not reveal herself as Luna instead of Chrysalis? If she didn't think it would work... why do it?! And if Luna is strong enough to beat Celestia, why didn't she do it 1000 years ago? She could have just as easily used her army to keep Celestia away from the elements and over powered her then like she did with Twilight now.

 

The entire theory just leaves holes everywhere, and it actually defeats the entire purpose of the show. Luna being evil means the elements of harmony do not work to destroy evil. But if the elements don't work, and Twilight is the element of magic (magic that is derived from being so close and understanding the elements so completely), wouldn't she be powerless or at least very weak, and how would she turn into an alicorn since we're lead to believe the elements are what had the power to transcend Twilight into a princess. Also if the elements have no power you defeat their whole lesson which in its most basic form tells kids that good triumphs over evil and if you embrace these good qualities, you'll be successful. 

More likely to me is that Luna was gone rallying allies and warning them of the trouble they've been having. Or maybe she was patrolling the skies for the threat itself. Or maybe she doesn't always live in Canterlot castle. Why wasn't she there by Celestia when Discord reared his head up? Where are her guards? Since it's been shown Luna most likely has guards of her own that pulled her into Ponyville in Luna Eclipsed, and yet in a Canterlot Wedding and other episodes we see Celestia's guards at night time. If Luna lived there, why wouldn't they be there too? (FYI I don't think they were in costumes that night of Luna Eclipsed because she probably would have taken offence) I think Luna is primarily nocturnal, and that she doesn't live in Canterlot 100 percent of the time.

[Scythe 39]

This just doesn't make any sense to me. First off, if Chrysalis/Luna can't even play Cadence well, how can she pretend to also be the 'good Luna' well enough to fool her own sister and everypony else? In Luna Eclipsed we saw a character who was not only deeply hurt by the rejection she suffered from her subjects but we could also see regret. Someone said in the previous comments that you can only judge a character on what they've said or done... but then what is the point of theater or acting as a whole? We have to be able to read into the expressions that Luna displays in that episode. Chrysalis couldn't even fake cry convincingly at the wedding. How could she display such drastic and real emotion in one aspect but not another? Also, we see Luna displaying many of these emotions on her own when no one is around to see, so if it's an act why keep up the charade when no one is around?

 

Second... how? I could maybe buy that Luna could shape shift into Chrysalis, but are we to believe she also can multiply herself into hundreds of changlings? If not, then why would the changlings obey Luna? What's in it for them? If it was to help them infiltrate Canterlot then they could have already done that without the giant swarm at the end of a Canterlot Wedding. In fact, they'd have been much more successful and could have feed of their preferred food of love without the swarm. Luna could have just got them in, imprisoned hundreds of ponies in the caves without anyone knowing, and let her real subjects feed.  But this didn't happen, so... it just doesn't add up to me.

 

And why for that matter? What purpose does this serve Luna? We see in episode 1 and 2, and in Luna Eclipsed that Luna is not evil for the sake of being evil. Luna was evil because she was under appreciated and felt rejected by her subjects... which no longer a problem since it's been thus proved that many of her subjects love her, her sister loves her, and the elements banished the darkness from her. And how would this even benefit Luna? Luna wanted to cover the world in never ending darkness so that people would be forced to appreciate her. She didn't want to make them miserable and if she ever did it was only so that they would be as miserable as she was. Luna isn't miserable anymore, and she's loved/appreciated (or at least ok with the fact people sleep at night)... so why be evil? How does this hugely elaborate plan suit Luna at all? Revenge? Maybe but that seems extremely petty. Furthermore how does disguising herself as Cadence and then revealing herself as Chrysalis help Luna's plot? She's now shown her alter ego/ other identity, and now people will be able to see it and sound the alarm when they do. I just don't think Luna is so foolish to believe that this attempt would work and if she DID think it would work, why not reveal herself as Luna instead of Chrysalis? If she didn't think it would work... why do it?! And if Luna is strong enough to beat Celestia, why didn't she do it 1000 years ago? She could have just as easily used her army to keep Celestia away from the elements and over powered her then like she did with Twilight now.

 

The entire theory just leaves holes everywhere, and it actually defeats the entire purpose of the show. Luna being evil means the elements of harmony do not work to destroy evil. But if the elements don't work, and Twilight is the element of magic (magic that is derived from being so close and understanding the elements so completely), wouldn't she be powerless or at least very weak, and how would she turn into an alicorn since we're lead to believe the elements are what had the power to transcend Twilight into a princess. Also if the elements have no power you defeat their whole lesson which in its most basic form tells kids that good triumphs over evil and if you embrace these good qualities, you'll be successful. 

 

More likely to me is that Luna was gone rallying allies and warning them of the trouble they've been having. Or maybe she was patrolling the skies for the threat itself. Or maybe she doesn't always live in Canterlot castle. Why wasn't she there by Celestia when Discord reared his head up? Where are her guards? Since it's been shown Luna most likely has guards of her own that pulled her into Ponyville in Luna Eclipsed, and yet in a Canterlot Wedding and other episodes we see Celestia's guards at night time. If Luna lived there, why wouldn't they be there too? (FYI I don't think they were in costumes that night of Luna Eclipsed because she probably would have taken offence) I think Luna is primarily nocturnal, and that she doesn't live in Canterlot 100 percent of the time.

Princess Luna masquerading as Queen Chrysalis is fun, as is trying to see it as possible and hoping the writers had planned such a twist early on. You're most likely right about this idea being wrong. I suspect the writers put less thought into the show than the fans do. You also make some good arguments.

 

Now, If Luna is Chrysalis and she plays Cadance poorly, it could be because Luna doesn't know Cadance very well. Cadance is such a boring character that she'd be the easiest target close to Celestia.

 

Luna can become multiple entities as she was able to become three Shadowbolts, but hundreds is hopefully past her limit. Maybe the changelings were tricked into obeying Luna. Maybe the real Chrysalis is trapped somewhere. While Cadance says changelings feed on love, they might be able to feed on any other emotion. Perhaps they were starving and didn't have time to slowly infiltrate Canterlot and a mass invasion-feast worked better? Also, outright warfare sends a more terrifying message to Celestia than a slow replacement of her ponies.

 

Like many siblings in a disagreement, I imagine if Luna told her version of the story from the first episode, it'd be different from what Celestia said. While it'd be nice to believe Celestia all the time, she is involved in politics. Until Luna honestly explains what happened, we might not know the truth.

 

If Luna is Chrysalis and was caught when the real Cadance showed up, it benefits Luna to pretend to be yet another shapeshifter. If her alter ego is defeated, 'Luna' is still innocent. Also, possibly Luna was stealing the love from others to give her a boost over her not-using-Elements-of-Harmony equal, Celestia.

 

The idea that Luna is evil/Chrysalis might not go against the usable lessons of the show, as not everyone is a good potential friend or interested in being friends. I don't think we've had a back-stabbing 'friend' episode, yet.

 

I've wondered about the Elements of Harmony (are they sentient?). They seem powerful enough to trap mighty beings, to intentionally release a being whose essence is the opposite of harmony, and to perform magic voice-activated/on their own as was seen in Magical Mystery Cure. It would make more sense if the Elements changed Twilight into an alicorn, rather than the Celestia-given tripe about 'something never done before' and 'new magic'. 

 

Join the believers in evil Luna. It's fun.

[JPkasp 1]

I found this tread in a search of the topic I was by starting a tread like this XD, I'm alse a "evil Luna beliver" since i saw the video"Reviewing is Magic 4 - A Canterlot Wedding" (a week ago). I called my only  "bronie" friend 3 am on the phone, to tell him about it XD. I'w all episodes over 4 times and didnt notice it ! (but i feelt it wierd wehn Luna came right after it all had happen)
Sorry my bad english

"Good day" too all of you!

[Silver fox 117 49]

This just doesn't make any sense to me. First off, if Chrysalis/Luna can't even play Cadence well, how can she pretend to also be the 'good Luna' well enough to fool her own sister and everypony else? In Luna Eclipsed we saw a character who was not only deeply hurt by the rejection she suffered from her subjects but we could also see regret. Someone said in the previous comments that you can only judge a character on what they've said or done... but then what is the point of theater or acting as a whole? We have to be able to read into the expressions that Luna displays in that episode. Chrysalis couldn't even fake cry convincingly at the wedding. How could she display such drastic and real emotion in one aspect but not another? Also, we see Luna displaying many of these emotions on her own when no one is around to see, so if it's an act why keep up the charade when no one is around?

 

Second... how? I could maybe buy that Luna could shape shift into Chrysalis, but are we to believe she also can multiply herself into hundreds of changlings? If not, then why would the changlings obey Luna? What's in it for them? If it was to help them infiltrate Canterlot then they could have already done that without the giant swarm at the end of a Canterlot Wedding. In fact, they'd have been much more successful and could have feed of their preferred food of love without the swarm. Luna could have just got them in, imprisoned hundreds of ponies in the caves without anyone knowing, and let her real subjects feed.  But this didn't happen, so... it just doesn't add up to me.

 

And why for that matter? What purpose does this serve Luna? We see in episode 1 and 2, and in Luna Eclipsed that Luna is not evil for the sake of being evil. Luna was evil because she was under appreciated and felt rejected by her subjects... which no longer a problem since it's been thus proved that many of her subjects love her, her sister loves her, and the elements banished the darkness from her. And how would this even benefit Luna? Luna wanted to cover the world in never ending darkness so that people would be forced to appreciate her. She didn't want to make them miserable and if she ever did it was only so that they would be as miserable as she was. Luna isn't miserable anymore, and she's loved/appreciated (or at least ok with the fact people sleep at night)... so why be evil? How does this hugely elaborate plan suit Luna at all? Revenge? Maybe but that seems extremely petty. Furthermore how does disguising herself as Cadence and then revealing herself as Chrysalis help Luna's plot? She's now shown her alter ego/ other identity, and now people will be able to see it and sound the alarm when they do. I just don't think Luna is so foolish to believe that this attempt would work and if she DID think it would work, why not reveal herself as Luna instead of Chrysalis? If she didn't think it would work... why do it?! And if Luna is strong enough to beat Celestia, why didn't she do it 1000 years ago? She could have just as easily used her army to keep Celestia away from the elements and over powered her then like she did with Twilight now.

 

The entire theory just leaves holes everywhere, and it actually defeats the entire purpose of the show. Luna being evil means the elements of harmony do not work to destroy evil. But if the elements don't work, and Twilight is the element of magic (magic that is derived from being so close and understanding the elements so completely), wouldn't she be powerless or at least very weak, and how would she turn into an alicorn since we're lead to believe the elements are what had the power to transcend Twilight into a princess. Also if the elements have no power you defeat their whole lesson which in its most basic form tells kids that good triumphs over evil and if you embrace these good qualities, you'll be successful. 

 

More likely to me is that Luna was gone rallying allies and warning them of the trouble they've been having. Or maybe she was patrolling the skies for the threat itself. Or maybe she doesn't always live in Canterlot castle. Why wasn't she there by Celestia when Discord reared his head up? Where are her guards? Since it's been shown Luna most likely has guards of her own that pulled her into Ponyville in Luna Eclipsed, and yet in a Canterlot Wedding and other episodes we see Celestia's guards at night time. If Luna lived there, why wouldn't they be there too? (FYI I don't think they were in costumes that night of Luna Eclipsed because she probably would have taken offence) I think Luna is primarily nocturnal, and that she doesn't live in Canterlot 100 percent of the time.

I believe scythe already explained alot of things, but the elements of harmony I want to give you my two cents.

 

The elements have always been used throughout the show. Celestia used it against Luna, Twilight and friends used it against Luna, used to turn Discord to stone, and more and more. Okay that makes, but what doesnt make sense is that in season one the elements purged evil. If this was true then how come they didnt work when Celestia used it against Luna the first place and why did Celestia have to banish Luna in the moon for a 1000 years. 

 

Also why doesnt the Elements reform Discord when they use it against him. If those are the same elements wouldnt the elements banish all the evil from Discord and make him good like Luna. In reality we dont know how the elements work, but if they worked the way we think they do then wouldnt Discord be good like Luna.

 

Also you dont get the ingenious of Luna revealing herself as Chrysalis  Now no one would expect her to be pulling the string. She basically got to see that she can defeat her sister in battle and the elements without revealing who she really is. The changeling thing I really have no idea. Maybe it was like scythe idea, or something more sinister. Maybe Luna promised them Canter-lot if the plan succeeded, but it didn't. We can also  assume that the changeling's failing doesn't matter to Luna. Also who said that she was stronger than Celestia 1000 years ago. Maybe Celestia is getting weaker with age and Luna is becoming more powerful. She probably wanted to see how she can handle a battle with Celestia after getting her arse handed to her 1000 years ago.

 

Also I like your explanation of Luna's motivations of being Nightmare Moon.

 

First it starts with feeling useless, then comes jealousy. After jealousy comes hate, after hate comes warpedness. After warpedness comes insanity, after insanity comes evil. Evil just doesn't go away. It becomes a part of you. Once its a part of you then there is no getting rid of it.  

Edited May 2, 2013 by Silver fox 117

[fwooooosh 2]

Luna disguised herself as a ghastly creature that has chunks missing out if it's anatomy? How did she do that? More importantly, why would the writes add such a sloppy plot hole and not use it?

Watch Luna Eclipsed. Luna is definitely able to shape shift.

I love this idea, but the canonical comics sort of debunk it. Why would Luna as Chrysalis go through the trouble of concocting such an elaborate kidnapping is the comic arc? Is she REALLY that hell bent on getting back at Twilight and Celestia yet at the same time hiding her true identity?

[cuteycindyhoney 13,306]

Watch Luna Eclipsed. Luna is definitely able to shape shift.

I love this idea, but the canonical comics sort of debunk it. Why would Luna as Chrysalis go through the trouble of concocting such an elaborate kidnapping is the comic arc? Is she REALLY that hell bent on getting back at Twilight and Celestia yet at the same time hiding her true identity?

I had to go back and re-read that part of the thread. Boy, I just love when someone quotes a post I made over a year ago, when I have no memory of even writing it!

Luna isn't able to shape shift. Nightmare Moon was the adult version of Luna. The magic floating all over wasn't actually Nightmare Moon! Nightmare Moon didn't turn herself into a little thorn and jab herself into the manticore's paw!

 

The idea of her actually being Chrysalis seems totally pointless to me. It isn't going to happen.

Edited May 3, 2013 by cuteycindyhoney

[fwooooosh 2]

Lol! I did a google search for the topic since it recently piqued my interest, and this thread popped up. What I was referencing was in Luna Eclipsed. Luna shifts her appearance to look like NMM then back again to appease a whim from Twilight to scare the ponies there. It's the only time I can think of where we are shown Luna shape shifting.

Btw...have another great year!

[ManlyStitches 4]

First of all, I am literally in love with this theory. I always didnt like luna for some reason....i always thought there was something up with her.  and as much as people say "nah", you can't DISPROVE it with current canon and semi-canon (comics).  It has a large amount of undenyable circumstantial evidence, which is not conclusive, but is not dissmisable either.

 

I just read the comic arc about queen chysralis (however you freaking spell it)...and it doesn't disproove this theory AT ALL.  It just shows that luna/chrissy is in her little changling kingdom castle for 3 days straight (or maybe not even straight...she could have left and come back frequently).  so what? maybe luna took a "vacation".  she can raise the moon from anywhere, right?  All she had to do was tell celestia she will be back in a few days, or maybe make up a story about defending the border for the magical surge thing.

 

But if you look at the part where it shows what happens right after she gets booted out of canterlot, it does seem to suggest she isn't luna.  but then again, we don't know how long it took the changelings to take over that cutsy land of bunnies and stuff.  maybe after it was done she transformed back and high tailed it back to canterlot.  after all, we dont see luna until AFTER the wedding, which is AFTER the entire town of canterlot is fixed up and cleaned.  The wedding could have been the next day, or even 2 or 3 days later!  Plenty of time for chrissy to get her new kingdom in order and fly back and be Luna again.

 

as far as changelings go- and this is just an idea i had- what if the changelings were a race, and she didnt bring them out of tartarus (like a previous user suggested)?  maybe they were just a race with no ruler, and luna came in, shapeshifted into something that looked like a queen version of them, declared herself ruler, and promised them canterlot??  Then, she would have had to not transformed back in her castle because she was not only playing the ponies, BUT THE CHANGELINGS AS WELL!

 

Another thought:  how did chrissy send the orb to spike via royal spike burp-mail (in the comic)?  That is literally only seen done by celestia.  Maybe luna knows how to do it too, being her sister and all?

 

oh yeah, to all the ideas that luna cant be chrissy because she was a terrible cadence...duhhh..of course she was terrible.  she was trying to get found out as the queen changeling to throw off all suspicion from luna onto her alter ego, chrissy.  but she landed the suspicion plane at the perfect time, after she already had the shields weak and her army ready, just in time for the dramatic reveal.  which makes it impossible to think that luna would be behind it.  my point is, she played the "bumbling idiot villian" to a KEY!  

[TheGr3ml1n 57]

I want to apologize for the wall of text ahead of time. 

 

When I was looking around the MLP forums and I saw this topic, I immediately dismissed it as a crazy fan theory. But then, I came across that video a while back, and I thought to myself, "maybe there's something to this, though I doubt it."

 

Then something hit me. In almost every scene I've seen Luna in, there's always something odd/off about it.

 

Now, I don't necessarily agree that Luna is the same pony as Chrysalis, because there are a few things about that that don't make sense. It's a stretch for them to be the same, but at the same time I wouldn't say it's impossible. Even though the comics have an entire arc dedicated to Chrysalis, keep in mind that the comics were never alerted to Twilicorn, which took them by surprise. So we already know that DHX isn't willing to give out major plot details to anyone before it happens in the show.

 

My suspicions of Luna actually go way back to the Discord two parter. In these episodes, Luna is never actually seen in the episode, but she is mentioned. When Celestia is telling the Mane Six about Discord and what he did all those years ago, she mentions that both her and her sister defeated him with the Elements. After that though, she's never mentioned again until the Nightmare Night episode.

 

I actually think that Luna might've been the one to free Discord. The episode leads you to believe that it was the CMC that freed Discord by accident, but that doesn't seem to make much sense. If that were true, then why wasn't Discord freed, I don't know, 500 years ago? In all that time, not a single occurrence of Disharmony happened close enough to him to free him?

 

Sure, I guess you could chalk it up to not the best writing, but what's the fun in that?

 

The next time we see Luna is in Nightmare Night. There's not much evidence in this episode to suggest that Luna is anything but good, However, it is proven that Luna can still shapeshift in this ep, which sort of lends credence to the "Luna is Chrysalis" theory. She also seems to form a friendship with Twilight, one that shows itself later in the show.

 

Skipping ahead to A Canterlot Wedding, when Luna is at the guard tower and spots Twilight running by, she says "Stay indoors, Twilight Sparkle". The way she said it sounded odd to me, almost like she knew something would happen soon. On top of that, if she was so worried something would happen, why didn't she do something about it when it actually happened?

 

IMO, I believe that Luna was saying this specifically to Twilight, because Twilight treated her like a friend in Nightmare Night. Almost like Luna wanted to make sure that Twilight was safe during the takeover of Canterlot.

 

When the cast were asked why Luna wasn't a more prominent character in the episode, the cast said that Luna was simply thrown in at the last minute "for the fans".

 

Here's the thing though. If Luna was a major part of the overall FiM arc, they wouldn't want to raise any suspicions to that arc. Just like when Meghan Mccarthy was asked whether or not Sunset Shimmer would be a part of FiM, and she replied no, but it was later shown that she's a major part of Equestria Girls. Or when Tara Strong specifically denied that Twilight would become an Alicorn.

 

The next "hint" that Luna could still be evil happened in the first episode of Season 3. After Celestia talks to Twilight, and they leave the castle, Luna is waiting outside, and she gives Twilight a certain look. To me, the look was less of a "stern" look, and more of a jealous one.

 

Still that's based on perception. I've heard many people say, that maybe Luna just didn't think Twilight could complete the mission, and that's why she gave her the look she did. But at the same time, Luna knows Twilight. Why would she act like that towards her, when Twilight was so kind to her during Nightmare Night?

 

To top it off, it's never explained, and most people just brush it off as nothing.

 

 

That's pretty much the last time we see Luna except for Sleepless in Ponyville, and a cameo in the Coronation event. The thing that makes me think the theory that Luna may still be evil has any merit, is because of the whole Twilight Alicorn arc.

 

Ever since the first episode, the Elements of Harmony hinted at the fact that Twilight might become an Alicorn, since her element was always the crown, and her friends were always the necklaces. Even in the case that Lauren Faust didn't intend for her to become an Alicorn, she did intend for her to eventually become Celestia's successor. 

 

The thing is, not very many people saw the Alicorn thing coming (excluding the leaks), because the staff put a super tight lid on the whole thing. At the same time though, there were hints throughout the show, whether it being Twilight facing up against the Alicorn Amulet and winning, or Celestia's constant pushing to have Twilight and her friends solve problems without her interference. They did a fairly good job of being subtle about the whole thing, but they did build up to it. Probably not as much as people wanted, but they did.

 

Now, from what I can tell, Luna being the one planning things behind Celestia's back seems to be hinted at in the show, but with much much ?more subtlety. One of the major things that bothered me about the whole Alicornification was, where do they go from here? If it's true that they've been setting the Alicorn thing up from the very start, wouldn't that mean that the main major story arc of the show is now over? Wouldn't that make the show hard to write for now, since there's no actual "goal" they're heading towards anymore?

 

Yet, the cast have mentioned several times, that they had absolutely no trouble writing for Season 4. Not only that, but that it would be the "most epic season of Pony yet."

 

Not to mention that, if this whole arc thing is true, it could be the perfect finale for FiM. Think about it, Twilight's final test, is to fight against the conflict that started the entire series in the first place. Since she has a connection to Luna, she could appeal to her good side, and she could be the only one to stop Equestria from being destroyed.

 

It's like the whole show comes full circle.

 

 

 

Of course, I still have my doubts, and it might be true that all of these things were just due to faulty writing and nothing more. But the thing is, there's nothing to directly disprove it. The fact that it's a kids show doesn't really matter, because Lauren Faust had already created a story bible that had tons of world building, character arcs, and even story arcs up until the very end of the show.

 

I see this as being a big opportunity to give the show an epic conclusion. And although I'd prefer not to think that season 4 is the last season of FiM, if it goes out like this, I think it would be the perfect way to go.

 

 

TL;DR: The theory that Luna may still have some "alterior motives" has not been disproven by anything in the past three seasons of the show, and in fact there's some evidence to show it might be the major arc of the entire series. Also, if Twilight being an Alicorn was planned from the beginning, who's to say this wasn't planned as the finale of the whole show?

[SparkBrony 379]

This is really quite an awesome and mysterious theory. We never see Luna and Chrysalis in the same room in A Canterlot Wedding.   If only there were more episodes with Chrysalis we could get more clues.