critique wanted OC Discussion

[Just-An-Observer 9]

So, I was hoping I could get some feedback on an OC I have. I might or might not write a story for him, but I really wanna discuss and expand on him and his world. As well as the interactions he could have with the other characters and how he perceives their world.

If anyone would be willing to hear me out on him, I'd really appreciate it.

[Shadow Beam 1,179]

It might help quite a bit to expose a brief summary of the character in question, Observer. 

[Just-An-Observer 9]

Just now, Shadow Beam said:

It might help quite a bit to expose a brief summary of the character in question, Observer. 

Well, my OC's name is Calvin, a Growlithe. Calvin hails from my own world of Pokemon; a world where there are no humans and Pokemon have evolved beyond mere animals and have their own society, much like the ponies do. After a magical mishap in his world, he appears (crash lands like a meteor) in the Everfree sometime after Applebuck Season.

[Shadow Beam 1,179]

Sounds interesting! You could also add refs and such if you have any. I'm anything but an expert of decent OCs, really, but at the very least if you do give some insight and characterization of your OC you might be able to garner more attention and consequently help with it.

[Just-An-Observer 9]

2 minutes ago, Shadow Beam said:

Sounds interesting! You could also add refs and such if you have any. I'm anything but an expert of decent OCs, really, but at the very least if you do give some insight and characterization of your OC you might be able to garner more attention and consequently help with it.

I see. Well, I do have a general summation as to how his society works:

The pokemon world is ruled in a similar fashion to the ponies, only instead of a diarchy, it's a long-standing monarchy. There's quite a bit of backstory to how this came about, but I'll try to keep it as short as I can.

Arceus is their world; they found a planet after eons of thinking about the species they wanted to create and became the core. Their life-force spread throughout the planet, making it fertile and inhabitable for the creations they've wanted to create for so many years. Pokemon of all shapes, sizes and abilities came into being and for many millennia, Arceus was content and happy.

However, it wasn't to last. As his creations evolved beyond their base instincts and into sentience, hatred started to develop over the differences that their creator felt made them unique. Those that perceived themselves as strong felt they should control the "weak" and the "weak" felt that those that were "strong" were arrogant and needed to be put in their place. After years of unrest, war broke out. It broke Arceus' heart; their beloved children, killing and torturing each other over what they believed made them so wonderful. The war went on for many years, to the point that the planet slowly withered away to a husk of its former glory. The war was killing their god, but the deity was still more concerned for them then for themselves. So, they did the only thing they could; found a messiah, a Gallade, to convey their message to the warring pokemon. Yet, they knew that someone running around, spouting that they hear "God" wouldn't be met with positive reactions. So...they gave their messiah their multi-type ability. With this irrefutable piece of evidence, those that were fighting in the war listened to the Gallade; their hearts and minds becoming free from the haze of hatred that fueled their actions. And allowed them to bear witness to what they were doing to both their world and their creator for the first time....

The war ended, but the pokemon feared temptation; it was hard to forgive and move on, but oh so easy to hate. The Gallade that Arceus had asked to stop the war was made into a guardian, someone to make sure tension did not rise to boiling points once more. But the messiah's compassion for all Pokemon and patience to those still stuck in the war moved many. So, it wasn't long before he was crowned king and started the long lineage of kings that followed.

However, it doesn't work how you think it does. To be king, or queen, you need not be related to the king before or any king for that matter. Blood relations have nothing to do with being suited for the role of ruler. Why? Because the multi-type ability does not carry on to the next generation; it stays with the king until the day they die. And no, while the multi-type ability doesgrant a larger lifespan, it does not make them immortal...or invincible. Once the king dies, it is up to Arceus to determine who will be their successor via a special connection and specific magic circle. It was only after two, three more kings that the "Eyes of Arceus" was created. It's a guild that acts just as the name implies, scouting out those with the potential to be the next ruler once the present king at the time dies. The system, however, was only perfected after two tyrants managed to fool Arceus, thanks to corrupted members in the guild at those times. Now, the pokemon of the guild actually did act as Arceus' eyes; whenever and wherever there is a glimmer of potential, the god sees through the eyes of the guild member that is near it to pinpoint exactly who it is from.

Pokekind thrived, despite however many hardships and setbacks they faced, and is a well-adjusted and advanced society at the time that Calvin is alive. The reigning king of the era is Mike 1, a riolu that is revered as "The Great King" for how loved he is. And that's partially due to how down-to-earth, humble and invested in all the problems of his people, whether they be big or small.

But it's not all perfect. There are problems in the society; stereotypes against types is a definite problem. An example would be that if a crime had been committed, such as vandalism or theft, and the only two suspects are a Ghost type and a Fairy type.... Well, some would automatically think it was the ghost type that did it rather than the fairy type. These things do happen, not often to Mike 1's eternal gratitude, but still.

A huge one are the long-standing family lines that are connected to any king of the past. Entitlement runs heavy through these bloodlines and has led to a number of problems in just about everything; from things like children expecting to be given a discount on candy because of their heritage to full grown adults believing they have the right to force their own government on those they feel are lesser than them. Mike 1 has cracked down hard on any and all that do this, but it's so far only encouraged them to be more sneaky about it.

So, that's a general gist of what the society Calvin is from is like.

[Just-An-Observer 9]

Calvin would, also, not make friends with the Mane Six. At least, not all of them. Don't misinterpret; he's a laid-back dude and does his best to get along with all those around him. However! I just don't see him making friends with any of them; the repeat offense thing they have going on in that friend group wouldn't sit right with him. He's not a "you screw up once and we're done" type of guy, not even a little, but if he gives you a second chance and you still didn't learn your lesson? You're out of there.

The only one I could say for certain he could be friends with would be Fluttershy; her non-confrontational demeanor, timid nature and level head would do wonders in breaking the ice. As for the others?

Twilight: She's far too...too...orderly for Calvin. There's nothing wrong with being thorough, but we've all seen how extreme she takes it. Plus, because of personal reasons, Calvin doesn't like feeling that he isn't in complete control of his own actions. We've seen how she likes to orchestrate events to get the desired result she wishes [ex: Mysterious Mare-Do-Well] and he would not want any part of it. And this is only something that I think Calvin would possibly misinterpret from her, but! He'd definitely feel like she'd be talking down to him o-or just has a "holier-than-thou" complex going on, be it subconscious or not. All in all? A no-go in friendship.

Pinkie Pie: No. Just...no. She's too wild for Calvin and that's saying a lot considering what he does for a living. Far too loud for his sensitive dog ears and ignorant as to how certain social clues work, she'd do nothing more than piss Calvin off. Plus remember in "Pinkie Apple Pie" when she was just hiding in Twilight's bookcase? Let her try some shit like that with Calvin. She'll get punched in the eye out of reflex and screamed at for breaking into his house. The "She's just being Pinkie Pie" excuse won't fly with him when she pulls shit like that. A pass on friendship here.

Rainbow Dash: Hard no. He doesn't wanna hear her ego every day nor does he want to deal with her bull-headedness. He'd snap and end up fighting her if it wore on his nerves enough. She's already so suspicious and hostile to everything she doesn't know, that'd they would probably end up on the wrong foot anyways. Her personality and "superiority complex" would only aid in driving them further away from each other. Definite no.

Rarity: She would leave a sour taste in his mouth. Trying to fit in with the uppercrust snobs of society and doing her best to act like one in return? It would unsettle him too much. Personal reasons. Then there's the fact that she tends to use those around her like her own fashion models and is a total drama queen on purpose, not sarcastically. It would just grate on his nerves too much.

Applejack: Way too damn stubborn and rooted into her convictions. She has a very small worldview and evidence of this has been seen in the show. Calvin, however, doesn't and sees things in a broader and more in-depth manner. This could lead to butting heads and frustration on Calvin's end which would grow too strenuous on any acquaintanceship they might have, let alone friendship. Another no.

[Duality 10,740]

Your characterisations of the Mane 6 seem like their original, less mature, personalities from the first few seasons, but I've heard a lot about how the Mane 6 have changed since then. Have you watched the more recent episodes?

Edited August 23, 2017 by Duality

[Just-An-Observer 9]

Just now, Duality said:

Your characterisations of the Mane 6 seem like their original, less mature, personalities from the first few seasons, but I've heard a lot about how the Mane 6 have changed since then. Have you watched the more recent episodes?

Yes because that's where Calvin will meet them. As I stated before, he's a laid-back guy that will forgive. But never forget. First impressions are everything, after all; as they grow and mature, he will take notice and not just turn a blind eye to it. However, their certain quirks would still keep them from being real friends and I hope that isn't a bad thing!

It provides a unique situation for the Mane Six; how they react to someone not wanting to be their friend and them not convincing them otherwise. We've seen ponies and other creatures that do this before, but how many instances have we seen where someone that isn't a one-off villain doesn't accept their friendship? And one that is, in fact, living close to Ponyville.

Take Flim and Flam for example: both of them have been in three episodes throughout the series and have had no intentions of becoming friends with any of the Mane Six. But, as someone once pointed out to me, the pony's "out of sight, out of mind" logic makes it easy for them to be forgotten about and let them continue with their lives. It'd be an interesting challenge for the Mane Six to get used to someone in Ponyville that doesn't really like them.

[Duality 10,740]

7 minutes ago, Just-An-Observer said:

Yes because that's where Calvin will meet them. As I stated before, he's a laid-back guy that will forgive. But never forget. First impressions are everything, after all; as they grow and mature, he will take notice and not just turn a blind eye to it. However, their certain quirks would still keep them from being real friends and I hope that isn't a bad thing!

Actually, not-being-friends-with-the-Mane-6 is a fairly good start to writing a character. One of the most common flaws among O.C.s is that they tend to lean on the main characters of their respective franchise.

36 minutes ago, Just-An-Observer said:

 

It'd be an interesting challenge for the Mane Six to get used to someone in Ponyville that doesn't really like them.

Good point. If written well, this particular concept makes a good fanfic.

 

More in relation to Calvin: Do you have a direct, not-compared-to-anypony-else description of his personality, at least the basic points thereof? I find that's a major step towards analysing an O.C.

[Just-An-Observer 9]

13 minutes ago, Duality said:

Actually, not-being-friends-with-the-Mane-6 is a fairly good start to writing a character. One of the most common flaws among O.C.s is that they tend to lean on the main characters of their respective franchise.

Good point. If written well, this particular concept makes a good fanfic.

 

More in relation to Calvin: Do you have a direct, not-compared-to-anypony-else description of his personality, at least the basic points thereof? I find that's a major step towards analysing an O.C.

Of course. Calvin is....sort of chaotic good. He's a good person, don't get me wrong, but! He'll do whatever he has to in order to assure the safety of those weaker than him and those he cares about. And even though he will try his damndest not to, he'll even kill to do it.

But when he's not in a dire situation like that, Calvin is a sarcastic, playful and observant Growlithe. He'll notice a lot of things in Equestria that the ponies either don't or choose not to notice around them; the hypocrisy, the child-like naivety and even just how orderly things are to an unnatural point (thought that would be a nit-pick of his own.)

[Duality 10,740]

Chaotic good, keeps weaker creatures safe from harm, sarcastic, playful, observant, nit-picky, what else? What are his likes, what are his dislikes, what tickles his funny bone, what pushes all his different buttons?

Your paragraphs discussing Calvin's reactions to the Mane Six are all like 100 words each; based on that, I'd say at least twice that much solely dedicated to describing his personality is advisable.

[Just-An-Observer 9]

17 hours ago, Duality said:

Chaotic good, keeps weaker creatures safe from harm, sarcastic, playful, observant, nit-picky, what else? What are his likes, what are his dislikes, what tickles his funny bone, what pushes all his different buttons?

Your paragraphs discussing Calvin's reactions to the Mane Six are all like 100 words each; based on that, I'd say at least twice that much solely dedicated to describing his personality is advisable.

Sorry, sorry! I was writing that last message at, like, midnight where I am and wasn't all there. Now, however. I'm not on the verge of collapsing and can actually write something decent.

Now then~. Calvin was born between two different worlds; his biological mother had been a prestige member of a family who's bloodline was connected one of the olden kings of the past. Where as his father had been born "feral" in a tribe; tribes are Pokemon that live like their wild ancestors and choose to have little interaction with the ever-changing society of those deemed "civil". The king before Mike 1, however, opened a bridge between both realms; any Pokemon of the tribes that so wishes to could join the society after going through "Integration". A necessary process to make sure someone doesn't end up getting eaten upon a relapse to wilder nature... To make a long story short, they met, fell in love and had Calvin and his brother, Luther.

Calvin, most definitely, takes more after his father than his mother. He was taught how to hunt for food as a young pup and still does when he doesn't have easy access to any food. He adores visiting his grandfather on his dad's side of the family; the leader of the tribe that his father was born into and always goes to him for advice and to regale his stories.

Now, I'll fully admit, that he can be kind of an asshole since he loves when people get comically hurt. If they are seriously hurt, he'll apologize for laughing, but if they walk it off? Nah. He also adores his job as a treasure hunter, hanging with his friends, calling out idiots and idiotic behavior, kids and annoying the rich and pompous.

His dislikes aren't that big, but he seriously hates bullies, adults that act like children, hypocrites, fleas, mosquitoes and butternut squash. But out of all of these dislikes, the things that really boil his blood are the first three in the list. Not to mention, people assuming things about him and his family, not being given his space and his personal space being invaded by a stranger.

[Duality 10,740]

1 hour ago, Just-An-Observer said:

Sorry, sorry! I was writing that last message at, like, midnight where I am and wasn't all there. Now, however. I'm not on the verge of collapsing and can actually write something decent.

No problemo; not trying to critique you, trying to critique Calvin. 

5 hours ago, Just-An-Observer said:

 

He loves when people get comically hurt. If they are seriously hurt, he'll apologize for laughing, but if they walk it off? Nah. He also adores his job as a treasure hunter, hanging with his friends, calling out idiots and idiotic behavior, kids and annoying the rich and pompous.

His dislikes aren't that big, but he seriously hates bullies, adults that act like children, hypocrites, fleas, mosquitoes and butternut squash. But out of all of these dislikes, the things that really boil his blood are the first three in the list. Not to mention, people assuming things about him and his family, not being given his space and his personal space being invaded by a stranger.

So you're intending for him to come off as slightly judgemental in general, no? Sort of a harsh, cynical, pragmatic personality, to serve as a foil to the Mane Six's innocence and sense of wonder?

[Just-An-Observer 9]

9 hours ago, Duality said:

No problemo; not trying to critique you, trying to critique Calvin. 

So you're intending for him to come off as slightly judgemental in general, no? Sort of a harsh, cynical, pragmatic personality, to serve as a foil to the Mane Six's innocence and sense of wonder?

Yes. Calvn's own experiences in life are in stark difference to the Mane Six's. I think I'll have Calvin explain the best he can:

"Look around. Look at where they live. Life doesn't get much simpler than this. For crying out loud, they literally live in a child's playpen. Let's face facts; if they weren't absolutely inept in all things strategic and military, the biggest threats to them would've been over and dealt with in record time. They've been coddled their entire lives, they have control over everything and everything that isn't in their control is either seen as evil or unnatural."

"They could do with a healthy dose of realism if, for no other reason, to get their heads out of their asses...."

[Duality 10,740]

3 hours ago, Just-An-Observer said:

Look around. Look at where they live. Life doesn't get much simpler than this. For crying out loud, they literally live in a child's playpen. Let's face facts; if they weren't absolutely inept in all things strategic and military, the biggest threats to them would've been over and dealt with in record time. They've been coddled their entire lives, they have control over everything and everything that isn't in their control is either seen as evil or unnatural.

I dunno, I mean, their capitols are certainly well-positioned.

One's on the side of a mountain and their old one's in probably the most dangerous region to traverse in all of Equestria.

And all the biggest threats to them have been over and dealt with in record time. I don't think any major, world-threatening villain in the entirety of the show has taken longer than three in-world days to either effectively completely obliterate or reform to the side of good.

Sure, Equestria is like a child's playpen, all its citizens have been coddled their whole life, they control pretty much everything, and everything else is considered either evil or unnatural, but I don't think the effectiveness of their country's security methods, however unconventional, can be called into doubt. They could easily take over their entire planet (assuming they haven't colonised it all already) with the resources and allies they've got going, unless their enemies have four or five Tirek-level weapons available for simultaneous deployment. 

 

Other than that little nit-pick, Calvin seems like an interesting character with a well-fleshed-out personality. I see nothing that needs improvement.

[Just-An-Observer 9]

11 minutes ago, Duality said:

I dunno, I mean, their capitols are certainly well-positioned.

One's on the side of a mountain and their old one's in probably the most dangerous region to traverse in all of Equestria.

I'm not sure on that. Having a city built on the edge of a mountain doesn't seem all that structurally sound, even with the possibility of magic to aid it, but that's my own general nitpick, I guess. And was it ever stated if the Everfree was around when "The Castle of the Two Sisters" had been the capitol? Cause if not, then it would just be a city in the middle of nowhere...

26 minutes ago, Duality said:

 

And all the biggest threats to them have been over and dealt with in record time. I don't think any major, world-threatening villain in the entirety of the show has taken longer than three in-world days to either effectively completely obliterate or reform to the side of good.

 

Again, something I have to kinda disagree with. Yes, they have a track record of reforming villains, but Sombra was the only one that got obliterated. And my use of "record time" is a little different than yours, I have to say. Do they defeat their villains within a short span of time? Yes, I have to concede your point there. However....it's because they allow them to fight another day. Tirek was locked back into Tartarus after his rampage, yeah, but who's to say he won't escape again? Queen Chrysalis got shot out of Canterlot via love bubble, but she came back and kidnapped everypony of high-standing. And even when she got beat by Thorax and Starlight, she got away again! Their speedy means of victory is at the sacrifice of leaving room for repeat offenses from the same enemy.

1 hour ago, Duality said:

Other than that little nit-pick, Calvin seems like an interesting character with a well-fleshed-out personality. I see nothing that needs improvement.

Thank you! Now, I ask something you: ask me questions as to how he might be in certain episodes in the series. Even make speculations.

[Duality 10,740]

4 minutes ago, Just-An-Observer said:

And was it ever stated if the Everfree was around when "The Castle of the Two Sisters" had been the capitol? Cause if not, then it would just be a city in the middle of nowhere...

A city in the middle of nowhere is also quite hard to attack. And less difficult to access than one built in a monster-infested jungle.

6 minutes ago, Just-An-Observer said:

 

Again, something I have to kinda disagree with. Yes, they have a track record of reforming villains, but Sombra was the only one that got obliterated.

Twice. And Tirek got as-obliterated-as-possible-without-actually-getting-murdered twice. And Discord got turned into stone twice. And NIghtmare Moon got obliterated for a thousand years. Pretty much the only reason that these villains keep on popping up again is freak magical plot devices added solely for the sake of conflict arcs. Although that's also the exact reason why said villains get re-defeated every time, so I guess it just depends on one's perception and/or how many major Macguffins the writers choose to edit out of the script to allow their villain to get as far as they do.

13 minutes ago, Just-An-Observer said:

Thank you! Now, I ask something you: ask me questions as to how he might be in certain episodes in the series. Even make speculations.

I haven't watched an episode in months. Been busy with tertiary education and stuff. Can't remember how half of them go, and can't remember the rest with any precision.

I'm rather uncertain that I could pull off anything like that to any decent extent, I'm afraid.

[Shadow Beam 1,179]

Do remember to focus on the character at hand and the possibilities of improvement in his personal and story. Boarding other discussions slightly related may end up leading to off-topic content.

[Widdershins 9,959]

   If you don't mind me being blunt, (its kinda late right now & I'm already grumpy) your Calvin seems less like his own personality & more of a conglomerate of your own ideals & expectations. He seems a bit too heavily focused on how he relates to others. There seems to be more work put into the world around him, rather than what he does with what world he is given. While its true that an important aspect of a character is how you react to others & situations, you seem to put him on a sliding scale depending on the situation. That too, is a good thing, but after all, nobody can plan for every nuance of any experience. I say, it's easier to point out what things he's not good at, if he's klutzy, or gets a bit blockheaded & stubborn with certain topics or such, because really, all of us have our times of ignorance.

 

On 8/24/2017 at 6:48 PM, Just-An-Observer said:

Now, I ask something you: ask me questions as to how he might be in certain episodes in the series.

  No. Don't do that.

  The show's episodes are sort of microcosms & worlds unto their own. That's basically metaphorically shoehorning him into somebody else's story. Those episodes were made by writers for the express purpose of centering around a tailor-made lesson or around one specific character or what ifs. Sort of stretching & exercising of what tools they had at their disposal. Saying "Well, what if my character was there?" sort of turns the whole story completely around & warps it into an entirely new one. Making a new character tangentially related to a pre-existing universe implies a sort of confinement to the already pre-established rules of that place.

  Alot about Calvin seems to be based around more of him being the way he is because of the environment of where he came from. Yet, that setting is rendered all but moot if you're just going to rocket him into a completely unrelated universe. Granted, the more time you can allot and literary breathing room you can supply makes it alot easier for an audience to swallow, but the more of a juxtaposition you supply, the more attention is called to the differences, and the more distance you provide to your audience. If he finds himself in Equestria somehow, it will A) not mean a darn thing about how he thinks a government should be run, since his dimension had entirely different rules. Kind of like if you were raised in one culture where kissing on the lips was seen as an open, friendly greeting, but if you did that in america, you'd probably get slapped & locked up. Kinda doesn't mean much about what you think about how the place ought be run if you've only been there but a fraction of the place you do come from. And Two: Ponies won't see him as a 'Growlithe.' They'll see him as a sort of talking dog. If he comes trotting in and claiming himself as a Growlithe, a term that really only applies in the place he comes from, that only shows him as jarringly separate from this new environment and a strong requirement from anyone in the audience to accept two different stories/environments/worlds simultaneously.

  In short, any good character should be able to stand on their own, if removed from their base setting. Sure, a character may be of a background or species specific to only one world setting, but it ought be readily accepted beyond that. If you were to cookie-cutter Calvin out of either the world he came out of or the one he finds himself in now, where does that leave him? Would the first thing to crop up in any random, drooling oaf that stumbles upon your work be "Duhh... what's this "growlithe" thing? Pokeymains?" The more you ask your audience to accept, the harder it will become for them to digest. There's a fine balance of believably to be had: one can go "I...don't get why this fellow has to be a talking horse but... well, I have had to react to a friend like that before. I can relate there."

 I do applaud your world-building prowess! But what I don't get is just how your character fits into it. There's sort of an 80-20 ratio of World to Character that you got there. But it's probably my own bias to say that you cannot just puzzle a character into a world and leave it at where he fits in there.