If Ember went through the portal would she be a dog too?

[ExplosionMare 18,062]

She probably would be some form of dog just like Spike.

[Ixrec 86]

I enjoy overthinking stuff like this, so here goes.

Before it gets tedious: EQ = Equestria, HW = Human World. Since there's so little evidence to go on here, it mostly boils down to:
1) is "humanized" EQ Spike a dog because one of the portals' rules is "EQ dragons = HW dogs"?
2) or is he a dog because his "counterpart" is a dog, i.e. because HW Twilight has a dog named Spike instead of a surrogate brother named Spike?

1 is obviously the simpler option, and the one with clear fanart implications, but it's far less satisfying, because then it seems completely arbitrary and unfair that Spike gets demoted from sentient being to a pet (admittedly a talking one, but still a creature that "shouldn't" talk in the HW). Out of universe it's still kind of unfair, but 2 would at least make it reasonable in-universe because presumably a much larger sample size would reveal at least some ponies turning into (talking) pets and some dragons turning into humans. Is there _anything_ in EqG canon we can point at to support either interpretation? In my opinion, 2 is slightly more likely for one simple reason: It's clear that everyone has a "counterpart" in the other world, and yet there are significant differences between a humanized EQ pony and their HW counterpart human.

If the portal really operated on a simple "species X = species Y" formula, we would expect either far less than 99% of ponies to have such clear counterparts (Sunset is the only one whose counterpart remains conspicuously absent), or everypony's humanized appearance to simply be a copy-paste of their human counterpart's appearance without any superfluous changes. Twilight is our only case study here, but HW Twilight wears glasses in both human and pony forms while EQ Twilight doesn't, and EQ Twilight has alicorn wings while ponified HW Twilight does not (even though ponied-up HW Twilight does!), so whatever's going on there is more complicated than a copy-paste. Unfortunately, even if 2 is correct, it gives us very little information on what a "humanized" Ember (or Smoulder) would really look like. It's probably fair to guess that in the human world, humans are the only sentient species, therefore most EQ ponies/dragons/yaks/hippogriffs/changelings/etc would end up as humans (and Spike really is a special case because his relationship with Twilight is so central to his identity it overrides this).

It's not exactly a strong argument (if I was Sunset or Twilight, I'd be doing so many tests), but I think it's the best we can do with the canon we've got.

[nightshroud96 124]

4 hours ago, Ixrec said:

I enjoy overthinking stuff like this, so here goes.

Before it gets tedious: EQ = Equestria, HW = Human World. Since there's so little evidence to go on here, it mostly boils down to:
1) is "humanized" EQ Spike a dog because one of the portals' rules is "EQ dragons = HW dogs"?
2) or is he a dog because his "counterpart" is a dog, i.e. because HW Twilight has a dog named Spike instead of a surrogate brother named Spike?

1 is obviously the simpler option, and the one with clear fanart implications, but it's far less satisfying, because then it seems completely arbitrary and unfair that Spike gets demoted from sentient being to a pet (admittedly a talking one, but still a creature that "shouldn't" talk in the HW). Out of universe it's still kind of unfair, but 2 would at least make it reasonable in-universe because presumably a much larger sample size would reveal at least some ponies turning into (talking) pets and some dragons turning into humans. Is there _anything_ in EqG canon we can point at to support either interpretation? In my opinion, 2 is slightly more likely for one simple reason: It's clear that everyone has a "counterpart" in the other world, and yet there are significant differences between a humanized EQ pony and their HW counterpart human.

If the portal really operated on a simple "species X = species Y" formula, we would expect either far less than 99% of ponies to have such clear counterparts (Sunset is the only one whose counterpart remains conspicuously absent), or everypony's humanized appearance to simply be a copy-paste of their human counterpart's appearance without any superfluous changes. Twilight is our only case study here, but HW Twilight wears glasses in both human and pony forms while EQ Twilight doesn't, and EQ Twilight has alicorn wings while ponified HW Twilight does not (even though ponied-up HW Twilight does!), so whatever's going on there is more complicated than a copy-paste. Unfortunately, even if 2 is correct, it gives us very little information on what a "humanized" Ember (or Smoulder) would really look like. It's probably fair to guess that in the human world, humans are the only sentient species, therefore most EQ ponies/dragons/yaks/hippogriffs/changelings/etc would end up as humans (and Spike really is a special case because his relationship with Twilight is so central to his identity it overrides this).

It's not exactly a strong argument (if I was Sunset or Twilight, I'd be doing so many tests), but I think it's the best we can do with the canon we've got.

Spike's identity of being a number 1 assistant doesn't mean he has to be demoted to a dog like that.
In fact him being stuck as a dog would greatly hinder his ability to "assist" Twilight.
Yes, there's some things a dog "can" do but that is ultimately outweighed by the things Spike loses out on due to being stuck as a dog.
And the fact still remains he's ultimately Twilight's sibling, not a pet. Having him be a dog is essentially saying he's ultimately a pet to Twilight not a being of equal standing with her.
And the fact Spike is clearly sapient, the fact the HW labels him as meant to be a non-sapient pet is just demeaning.

[dead account 2,710]

Since the dragons are more of the wild type, I like to imagine them being a pack of wild dogs or even wolves. They live far away from Ponyville and they would do the same in the human world, far away from the school, somwhere in nature.

[nightshroud96 124]

3 minutes ago, Schattenherz said:

Since the dragons are more of the wild type, I like to imagine them being a pack of wild dogs or even wolves. They live far away from Ponyville and they would do the same in the human world, far away from the school, somwhere in nature.

They're freaking sapient though.
As in still think and talk like other beings such as ponies/donkeys/diamond dogs/changelings(all of the mentioned getting to be humans).
As in the level of those, not the lower level that is wild animals/creatures.
 

[Rushing cash 836]

Not necessarily, I mean the diamond dogs were humans in EG, cranky was a human too.  We simply can't know for sure, but in my opinion it's more about the place in the society than actually species, but at the same time not so much. This mirror thing works in mysterious ways, so if ember is a plan or something like this in EG I won't be too surprised.

[nightshroud96 124]

1 hour ago, Rushing cash said:

Not necessarily, I mean the diamond dogs were humans in EG, cranky was a human too.  We simply can't know for sure, but in my opinion it's more about the place in the society than actually species, but at the same time not so much. This mirror thing works in mysterious ways, so if ember is a plan or something like this in EG I won't be too surprised.

I wished they touched on the issue in-show on why doesn't Spike get to be human instead of brushing it aside.
 

[Rushing cash 836]

1 hour ago, nightshroud96 said:

I wished they touched on the issue in-show on why doesn't Spike get to be human instead of brushing it aside.
 

It would have been cool to know it but I get why they didn't, it would bore the main age demographic the show is intended to. 

[nightshroud96 124]

6 minutes ago, Rushing cash said:

It would have been cool to know it but I get why they didn't, it would bore the main age demographic the show is intended to. 

Not really.
It would be part of Spike's development and such.
Like Spike beginning to having doubts and thoughts due to how that world basically labels him as a non-sapient pet rather than a equal friend.
No, its not the same situation with Hum-drum in Power Ponies. Not really close.
Him being a dog is worse than being a side-kick with no powers there.

Would eventually end up like at least letting Spike be able to switch into human form at will in that world.
Because well.. him being a dog really hindered him. Both dragon Spike and human-world Spike. Like it screwed him over in the long-run.
Heck, most the time I remember he's just.. there, like a prop to look adorable and that's it.  He really deserved more than that.  

[Megas 27,628]

It would be a hella shitty double standard if she didn't honestly

[nightshroud96 124]

21 minutes ago, Megas said:

It would be a hella shitty double standard if she didn't honestly

A lose-lose situation here

[nightshroud96 124]

On 2017-08-27 at 7:54 PM, StoryTail said:

I'm going to be a rebel here and suggest that it's possible that Ember wouldn't transform into a dog!  It could be that Spike had to turn into a dog, because that was the best transformation that the portal could come up with, in order to justify why Spike would be following Twilight 24/7.

 

Edit:  As for what Ember would transform into, I dunno!  Probably some form that would be best fit for her to fulfill whatever task she came to that world for.

Then the portal is a moron since Spike can easily help/follow Twilight as a human

Edited August 10, 2023 by nightshroud96

[ZiggWheelsManning 10,295]

Would fully see Ember as a Dalmation of blueness