The issue about power inflation (a.k.a power creep) and more

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

The word 'power inflation' simply means that in an action genre series, as the series goes on, the ability of characters keeps getting stronger and stronger to the point of it feeling dull and lacks a sense of urgency and tension.

Power inflation caused many problems among many comics, TV series, etc. But this concept doesn't always come from action genres. There is also a similar issue in the realm of accumulated knowledge. It would make more sense if we call it 'problem antibodies'. This means if once a solution to a problem is established, there is no reason not to use the same solution for similar problems. For example, when Dr. Strange used a portal to dismember a monster, the audience remembers it and questions later why he doesn't use it to Thanos or any other enemies for that matter. If this issue keeps stacking up in a series, then there are very little ways to write a clever and interesting solution to the problem in a story. The writer could trap itself to the dead end.

This issue is very prominent in My Little Pony series. And it makes it worse because MLP isn't about the moment of battles (Season 4 finale was very exceptional and far from the show's essence), it feels more like an idea of a scenario. It's less like John Wick or Hardcore Henry, it's more like fairy tales and fables. It's less physical and more metaphysical.

Once the setting that the princesses are powerful beings was established, people just ask what are they doing every time a problem occurs. And for that matter, it not just happens in a big situations like in the premiere and finale of the season, but also everyday small problems as well.

People always ask :

• Where is Luna?
• Where is Celestia?
• Where is Discord? Why Discord doesn't help when Fluttershy is involved?
• Why don't we ask Zecora for help?
• Twilight had a magic in season X episode X. Can't she solve it with the same magic?
• Isn't Twilight a very powerful unicorn? Didn't she beat X, Y, Z before?
• Starlight is almost as powerful as Twilight. Can't she help?
• Where is Starswirl?
• Why don't we blast the elements of harmony to the bad guy?
• Can't the pillars help?
• Where is Cadence?
• Didn't they had this exact same issue back in season X episode X and learned a valuable lesson?
• Can't a changeling help?
• Are they that stupid?
• ... And 500 more.

The problem with the epic battle events of season premiers and finales are that there are too many powerful allies up to this point. The show itself isn't mainly designed for adventures and action packed battles. Those are literally special events at the beginning and at the end of seasons. But the problem is, there were so many of them. 9 seasons. The enemies either defeated or reformed and the allies only got bigger and stronger. There are so many powerful weapons as well. The elements of harmony is such a powerful tool, it makes it ridiculous when the show tries to look tense and urgent.

I think the problem about it is because the show only tackles the same topic over and over again by only changing the villain. The epic battle episodes should be treated the same as the ordinary episodes, which means it should be a story about learning friendship lessons and the action adventures should only be used as a vehicle carrying the theme. Every season premiers and finales should be about the different aspects of friendship. Season 1 premiere was about finding their true nature by facing a huge threat and valuing virtues. Season 2 was about believing in friends even in the worst circumstances and reminding their true nature again. It shouldn't be about ponies dodging bullets and shooting lasers itself, it should be about their friendship and emotions during those incidents. The elements shouldn't be used like how they can get to the elements like how fast the cowboy's hand move to the holster, it should be about what the elements represent and why they work on them.

The problem with the friendship lessons in everyday ordinary episodes is that if the show only preaches friendship lessons and never show us them using those valuable lessons, it is ineffective education. The solution to this is just being creative and clever about writing stories. Try to avoid similar issues. If it is a similar issue, try to tackle it differently or in a more advanced way than before.

And there are practical problems like messy hair or parasprites. Sometimes the show uses the same formula of blocking solutions like Pinkie Pie always finding a way to ruin things or Twilight's magic backfiring even if those doesn't make sense. It can be hard to be creative all the time in a long series, but being a long series isn't always a weakness, it can also be an advantage. They can twist and turn familiar issues or contradict expectations. The good thing about a series is that we can watch the characters grow. If the show shows the characters acting more cleverly and more maturely, we can have that feeling of progression.

Season 9 spoiler ▼

Spoiler

Season 9 premiere was a mess between trying fixing that problem and repeating past mistakes. They clearly knows the elements of harmony is a problem, but pulled out the same card eventually and made it look more of an illogical invincible weapon, they made a league of villains but the problem wasn't about the scale or quantity, Celestia and Luna was absent for the stupidest reason, and Discord was there doing nothing by his choice and made Sombra nothing of a threat. Rainbow Dash says the princesses doesn't help but stating the issue doesn't mean they fixed it or they are smart. Starswirl was there but was useless as much as Luna and Celestia, Twilight was a weaker unicorn than Sweetie Belle, Starlight did nothing.

More later seasons have the issue of not only coming up with ideas, but also about how to prevent thing from themselves. They have to come up with reasons why some characters can't help. Cadence and Shining Armor gets defeated so easily, maybe because Spike was so powerful after all I don't know. Sombra does everything so easy, and gets defeated so easy. The point is, a lot of things happen, but not that much impact. A true embodiment of inflation not only as a character's ability (power inflation), but also as the story's scale and crazy things happening. Inflation means the currency value dropped. And the excitement I get out of the same scale of incidents happening dropped dramatically. If there were season 10, they would have to do all sorts of crazy epic things to top this and I don't know how they would do it. Maybe they would have to explode the planet and fight in space. Glad they stopped at season 9.

Those are my thoughts. What do you think? I am especially curious about actual examples of series that fixed this issue and rejuvenated themselves or cleverly dodged it in the first place. I am also curious what you think of the current state of MLP for that matter and how to fix it.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Sepul-Coloratura

[Metemponychosis 1,262]

The only thing I have to say, and that is more of a nitpick because it's not really the main focus of your post, is that I don't think the Elements are a problem. The problem is the way they've been used. Simply put, they were meant to be a symbol of the girls' friendship: if they work, it's because they're friends, and when it doesn't work, it's because they aren't. At least that is how I think the cartoon should've handled the Elements, instead of this continuous cycle, that I see, of proving to the audience that they are, indeed friends, and that tings work because they are friends and they are together.

Series that dodged this problem, at MLP's age rating, and genre, none that I've watched.

MLP is fine though. The problem is trying to drive a car as though it was a bike: inserting action, epic stories into a cartoon that was designed for cutesy ponies interacting.  That is why i think that it's perfectly fine as soon as the third episode starts, all the way to the one previous to the finales.

How to fix it? Not try to do stories that it wasn't made for, or make it so that it can support those stories. A bit late for that. Honestly, the big problem that I have is Celestia and how the cartoon handles her, and this problem wouldn't exist if she never was mentioned as the ruler. Just a pony with weird magic that turns on the day. Because it really hurts her when the cartoon tries to show that she could do all those things that she never does, and hand waves away all the times she should have. That way, she wouldn't have to be anything and I feel like the writing staff would have an easier time handling her.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Metemponychosis

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

13 minutes ago, Metemponychosis said:

Honestly, the big problem that I have I Celestia and how the cartoon handles her, and this problem wouldn't exist if she never was mentioned as the ruler. Just a pony with weird magic that turns on the day. Because it really hurts her when the cartoon tries to show that she could do all those things that she never does, and hand waves away all the times she should have. That way, she wouldn't have to be anything and I feel like the writing staff would have an easier time handling her.

I think they should make all the villain's main enemy Celestia, not Twilight. Just like what Dumbledore is in Harry Potter series. Twilight should be involved enough with a heavy amount of relevancy, but it should be Celestia who is the no.1 protector of Equestria. Premiers and Finales are very different events from normal episodes like you said, so what characters are involved should reflect it. (for example like how Galactus appears in big events and doesn't hang out with Peter Parker in Queens.)

[Metemponychosis 1,262]

@Sepul-ColoraturaThat is even better.

[gingerninja666 487]

I actually kinda think that there's more variety to the two parters than you're implying. Mainly because "epic battles" doesn't really come to mind for many of them.

 

Like, until maybe season 9's finale, to me, the scale has never surpassed Twilight's Kingdom. We've never had a villain since who's as powerful as Tirek was in that.

 

Like, in season 5 the premiere was more grounded, it isolated the cast in a remote location far away from any help, and put them up against a villain who was powerful but mainly got by via blindsiding them. In the finale, Starlight is a match for Twilight alone, but the time travel plot side stepped all of Equestria's allies like Discord and the Princesses. The action in those episodes came from the alternate timelines, which existed during periods where Equestria didn't have all it's overpowered resources. It was a way to single out Twilight, and not all of Starlight's methods involved lasers (like I loved the bit where she convinced the bullies to stop harassing Fluttershy and that worked in changing the past). In the end Twilight had to actually talk a villain down.

 

In season 6's premiere, they again isolated the cast, this time in the frozen north, and the situation was incredibly time sensitive. If the cast left the empire to go get the elements, say, then a vast amount of damage would be wrought by the time they got back. They had no time to waste. Not to mention, a large part of that two parter is slice of lifey and character driven. Starlight and Sunburst, Shining freaking over being a dad. A villain wasn't attacking, it was a situational thing. In the finale it was a suicide squad style story and there was focus on Starlight's worries of being a leader. The cast were taken out via a sneak attack by Chrysalis, not through a big battle. There isn't really a big battle, Star's gang spend most of the episode sneaking around.

 

Season 7's premiere is a slice of life story. The only conflict is one in Twilight's head. The finale, even though it has a big villain, the focus isn't really on IF they can beat Stygian, it's more on the WAY they'll do it. It's made clear very early on that they have several ways to beat him lined up, that's not in question, but each one will cost them something, and Twi is kinda caught between her hero worship of Starswirl and her student. Stygian is more of a potential casualty stemming from a mistake Starswirl made long ago, than a villain the episode is trying to make you think can win.

 

Season 8's premiere is more of a political story. It's not about a villain coming to conquer. It's Twi trying to set up a culturally significant school and running afowl of a racist beureucrat who inadvertantly almost causes an international incident.The only real battle is easily won, and exists to show the foreign Students that they were in over their heads, and the teachers they thought were lame are actually heroes. The finale has a villain who's certainly not powerful. She gets ahead through underhanded skullduggery. She uses Equestria's own systems to trap the mane 6. She's not a physical threat. Her danger is in her planning and her ability to sway people into doing things. There's no fights, the students just had to dissassemble Cozy's ritual. After which she was incapable of fighting back.

 

Now, to be clear I'm not saying that all of these are done perfectly or that they don't have plot holes. I guess I just don't agree that they've done the same story over and over, just changing the villain. I think they've tried to make stories about conflict that don't always have to escalate the power levels the way, say, Twilight's Kingdom did. This season is kinda the first time they've done this in a while.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

@gingerninja666 You have a point, and all what you said are legit. But my viewpoint comes from a different angle. I think the show has an obligatory rule of introducing a villain and an epic world ending scenario with action packed premiere/finale. It might be because of the fandom's expectations. They are obsessed with showing something big. Season 1 finale and season 7 premiere didn't do it. I think the more recent premiers/finales suffers more from this issue because if they didn't had their hands chained by the rule of epic premiere/finale, they could have came up with more fresh and interesting ideas.

Season 3 finale, season 4 premiere, season 4 finale, season 6 premiere, season 7 finale, season 8 finale, the mean 6, season 9 premiere all feels dull and most of them are a recycles of other premieres/finales. Even season 2 premiere was similar to season 1 premiere and Discord knows it, so he mocks the whole idea about 'shooting a friendship laser to the bad guy' premise. It was already predictable enough to mock it back then.

Because of they are writing a material that the show doesn't have it's advantage, they have to develop the story while fixing all the issues (making excuses why Celestia and Luna and Discord can't help, etc.) at the same time. And of course the longer the show runs, the harder it becomes. After all, they would end up making neither a good action adventure story, or a good friendship story. They can come up with some solutions like making them fight in a distant village (season 5 premiere) or get all princesses captured already (season 6 finale), but it is only fixing the problem they made themselves before. The best it can ever be is one step behind not being awful. If there are no problems to fix at the first place, the show could use it's full potential. The characters doesn't have to be constrains, they can be resources. (season 1 finale and season 7 premiere did benefit by the existence of various characters including the princesses.)

[Goat-kun 2,528]

The way I see it, they've tried to act like the big nerds and failed spectacularly on all fronts form magic system, faction diversity, lore, and worldbuilding. These are all things big nerds tend to take rather seriously, and for a good reason. An exciting fantasy world cannot exist without them.

 

But Goat ...

 

Silence! Remember that time you and your friends decided to create your own card game and ended up with a pile of stupid invincible shit? Well congratulations, you've just advocated for a magical world of a ten year old. Now, you can stay on that level. I won't judge, and kids won't mind either. However, our glorious writers and H-Bro have deliberately entered out nerdy domain out of their own free will and started baiting with adventure and worldbulding. How about you all get back to your magic tea parties? Perhaps then we'll at least get quality content.

 

P.S: There are no good examples cause no one capable of writing high fantasy is stupid enough to bait it in a show that can't deliver.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Goat-kun
There is no goat level

[Jedishy 3,548]

So many people complain about this that I have to laugh. Do you know how many times a person makes similar mistakes over and over again before they learn the lesson fully? As someone that trains others on the Jedi path 95% of being a training master is saying " what did I tell you in lesson X? " or " we went over this didn't you learn the tools to deal with it? 
"

People are so guilty of not learning their lessons or using their tools that it's hilarious to see them complain about it in a show. Do people not get how boring a show would be if they were perfect? Oh, wait they did an entire freaking song about it and people still dont learn....the irony is palpable 

[Zestanor 98]

I don’t think the power creep has been that bad. If anything, there’s been a power decay for sone characters. Celestia and Discord were once seen as omnipotent, but Celestia has proven to be as flawed as any of the Mane 6, and Discord “can do anything,” but due to his nature, he rarely does the “anything” that the heroes wish he would do.

 

There was a power creep in the season 4 finale, and they milked especially with Tirek, but then they retired it.

No one can ever be stronger than the fully Dragon Ball Z style Tirek, and he was not able to be defeated through martial force even though Twilight was heavily powered up. Every villain was defeated by an ad hoc unexpected power up, which has become a trope and staple of the show. If anything, the Tirek fight disproves power creep, because they defeated him through unusual F=M means just like the rest.

Admittedly, Twilight seems to have gotten a lot better at magic between seasons 1 and 2, but that is because the concept of Magic in FIM changed a lot at first. It eventually settled on something like an arcane science than magic tricks. After season 2, magic has been pretty consistent.

 

[Castle Bleck 19,377]

On 4/8/2019 at 5:06 PM, Sepul-Coloratura said:

(for example like how Galactus appears in big events and doesn't hang out with Peter Parker in Queens.)

Granted, that does sound like a stupidly awesome sitcom.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

@Goat-kun World building? What world building?

And I also think wold buildings and all those details should only be enough to support the story and themes and no more. It has to be a purpose, not for the sake of just nerding about it. So many times it's overdone. But like you said, when it's done, it has to be done right.

 

@Jedishy I understand your viewpoint, but that is the exact defense what I've also heard too many people say either. Of course things can't be perfect, and also perfect isn't fun. But a story is a condensed and refined version of reality.

I didn't expect nor wanted Fluttershy to turn into a complete confident superwoman after day 1. Being timid is her character. But if she kept being impossible to introduce herself to strangers like in episode 1, it would be too much. And I also don't want a story to be dragged down and limited by being realistic. These are fables and fairy tales after all. Visually, MLP characters don't have wrinkles in their faces unless it is necessary to the story. And other aspects of the show work like it as well. It has to be crystal clear and a little bit simplified. And also, ponies should be an example and role models for kids. They are supposed to be better than us.

After all, MLP is about learning lessons. If they contradict the past lessons by choosing not to make use of the lessons, it would be empty lessons without being realized. That's why practice is so important. If character flaws or old habits are settings and tools for telling a better story, I wouldn't mind. But it seems they do this because they are out of ideas.

And about the lesson of Fame and Misfortune, I simply don't agree on it even it's from the pony bible.

 

@Zestanor I mentioned power creep just to compare it to other problems prominent in MLP. By just powers, it's not a problem by itself. It works the same level as Rarity and Applejack saying "does not infinity plus one". But when the story gets bad, that's a problem.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Sepul-Coloratura

[Jedishy 3,548]

2 hours ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

But it seems they do this because they are out of ideas.

And about the lesson of Fame and Misfortune, I simply don't agree on it even it's from the pony bible.

So you are assuming why they do it. And complaining about what is your own in essence head cannon reason for what the writers do. Not sure how that is logical. The fact is that it takes TIME to learn lessons and even if its something you know well, people forget stuff all the time. I mean how many times do you see grown adults touch, eat or drink something that they just got told careful that's hot? How many times do you think they burned themselves in the past but impatience for food makes them forget the lesson.

Also what lesson dont you agree with? That people complain and while they claim they dont want perfect ponies that is indeed what they want? Because the reality is if the writers listened to half the whiners out there the ponies would indeed be flawless. 

[Goat-kun 2,528]

2 hours ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

World building? What world building?

And I also think wold buildings and all those details should only be enough to support the story and themes and no more. It has to be a purpose, not for the sake of just nerding about it. So many times it's overdone. But like you said, when it's done, it has to be done right.

I too was rolling my eyes when I was reading Silmarillion sometimes. And Tolkien still left so many things unanswered. I'm not expecting anything like that or anything remotely similar. I'm just expecting the basic stuff like the ability to say:" Magic Type A can't do that thing due to this here rule."

 

And it's not like our glorious writers are parodying fantasy or making fun out of it. That would imply they have experience working with its various concepts. The way they write, the way H-Bro approaches the IP with outbursts of unexciting battles hints at people who never gave a shit about fantasy and magical combat but are aware that many people do. You can't expect some mom like McCarthy to be intrigued by all the nuances of modern elf designs. You can't expect some show writer to understand why wink is the most overpowered pony spell in FIM. It is likely due to such lack of mileage that they fail at even the most basic stuff.

[Metemponychosis 1,262]

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

I'm just expecting the basic stuff like the ability to say:" Magic Type A can't do that thing due to this here rule."

Isn't that exactly what that rock in the changeling nest did? Or the Smooze?

Or do you mean something further, that is a rule of the world and that the writers would have to work their way around, to tell a story, instead of one or two rules that only apply to an episode or two, and then vanishes from the story? Something with more staying power?

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

1 hour ago, Jedishy said:

So you are assuming why they do it. And complaining about what is your own in essence head cannon reason for what the writers do. Not sure how that is logical. The fact is that it takes TIME to learn lessons and even if its something you know well, people forget stuff all the time. I mean how many times do you see grown adults touch, eat or drink something that they just got told careful that's hot? How many times do you think they burned themselves in the past but impatience for food makes them forget the lesson.

Also what lesson dont you agree with? That people complain and while they claim they dont want perfect ponies that is indeed what they want? Because the reality is if the writers listened to half the whiners out there the ponies would indeed be flawless. 

Of course I'm assuming why they do it because I can't Jedi-mind read them all. Nobody can do it. Either the show is bad or good is a person's opinion, not science. Even if I think something sucks, I can't change most people's mind about it. But when there is a jaded or uninspired story, it is very noticeable. And I as a viewer, am trying to analyze it like all critics do : assuming the writer's intent. So, if you are debunking me by saying that I'm assuming the writer's intent, would you please kindly Jedi mind-read their intent and tell me what they actually think? Or at least, assume it? Or is your argument about me not being specific enough to back up my point?

Like I said, nothing about a slow learning curve bothers me. We all know things takes time to learn. You know it, I know it, we all know it. As long as a character's flaw or a problem is used for an interesting story, it's good for me. Only thing matters is when it's uninspired. So I think I said it backwards. I'll say it this way. I don't mind anything as long as it is interesting and well written. And when it's boring and badly written, I will dislike it and try to find a reason why it doesn't work. For example, assuming the writer's intent. So in this case, they are keep using an old topic over and over again without developing or doing it without an interesting new perspective. (this is not about the epic finales/premieres that I wrote in blue. It's about what I wrote in purple, just to be clear.) And secondly, like I said before, the show isn't about being realistic. It doesn't have to reflect all the aspects of real life, or we might be watching a very depressing show.

The lesson I don't agree on is that they won't take any criticisms anymore and built a straw man to justify themselves. That they are digging up old arguments and memes that are not relevant anymore and try to make a fandom reference out of it in a most obvious, cheap, uninspired way possible. That they are not only shamelessly admits that the characters failed in some degree, but instead of admitting it's their fault or just letting it past, they are also trying to convert it as if the characters are so human and so realistic and it's the truth of life. And more on, they blamed the whole criticizing people by glossing over it with immature toxic arguments in the internet those were 4-5 years ago. That they can't handle the problem or fix it anymore, nor they would try to do it in the future. That they failed to sort out dumb arguments from valid ones. That they could answer to the dumb arguments but not the clever ones. That a show about magical ponies who represent old virtues that they infused divinity into as role models fails to keep up and make an easy choice. Of course nobody is flawless. It's diluting the issue.

You are saying something that is true by itself. "It takes time to learn things." "Nobody is perfect." But It also has to be used in a right context and a right topic to be right. I still don't know what you think about the show in this particular angle. I assume you have no complaints about the show so far. Would it be OK to assume it like that?

[Jedishy 3,548]

22 minutes ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

You are saying something that is true by itself. "It takes time to learn things." "Nobody is perfect." But It also has to be used in a right context and a right topic to be right. I still don't know what you think about the show in this particular angle. I assume you have no complaints about the show so far. Would it be OK to assume it like that?

Nope, nothing major issue wise. Some episodes or characters dont exactly click with me 100% but that is my personal tastes and nothing on the writers. We have more assumptions about their song and its lesson rather than just taking the words as written that no the characters will not be flawless. Nah it can't be that they are human and forget stuff. Or had an off day. Or a different writer then usual had the story for a particular character and so it feels a bit different. Nah it has to be deliberate malice, laziness or some other negative trait. 

What I loathe are people assuming negative things about people that gave the world something great. Especially when they could not possibly write or produce something even a fraction as good. Its like crying about the firefighting technique of those putting out your house when you could not stop the fire yourself. It sorta makes me want them to pack it up and tell the fans you do better then. Ungrateful and negative nancies just annoy meto no end. Especially when people are bashing people that gave 9 years of their lives to give us something they claim to fans of. 

EDIT

Seriously people will whine and bash the creators of well pick a thing no matter what they do. Its so bad these days I think writers need to start ignoring the whiners completely no response to feed back, no contact with them at all. Write the story they want and the real fans will be there. The rest can sit on the side of the road for all I care. At least that is how I feel it should be until everyone stops getting a buzz for ripping people with 10 times their talent down every step of the way. 

[Goat-kun 2,528]

2 hours ago, Metemponychosis said:

Isn't that exactly what that rock in the changeling nest did? Or the Smooze?

Or do you mean something further, that is a rule of the world and that the writers would have to work their way around, to tell a story, instead of one or two rules that only apply to an episode or two, and then vanishes from the story? Something with more staying power?

The rock did its job and now it's gone. Forever. No unicorn slayer will ever be forged from that material. I take option B.