Most Thought-Provoking Episode(s)

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,596]

While the show is generally breezy and silly, I do appreciate how several episodes tackle deep and complex themes. Which ones do you consider to be the most thought-provoking?

[RulesofRarity 493]

1) A Health of Information's lesson about the importance of self-care before helping someone else was a poignant one that has stuck with me ever since.

2) The Times They Are A Changeling, arguably my favorite episode in the entire show, taught a really important lesson about judging others purely on their race. To see our protagonists called out for their bigoted views and ultimately change them was perfect. It also was pretty amazing that it was Spike(a non-pony) that ultimately convinced them to alter their views. Also LOL at Starlight, a reformed criminal, being apprehensive towards a reformed Changeling.

Edited June 16, 2019 by RulesofRarity

[FlareGun45 2,221]

Father Knows Beast, brought so many possibilities!

Gave us the worst possible option. 

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,596]

Just now, FlareGun45 said:

Father Knows Beast, brought so many possibilities!

Gave us the worst possible option. 

Not remotely what I meant.

[Dark Qiviut 22,444]

Shadow Play comes to mind. That two-parter wasn’t your traditional story of good triumphing over evil, but an array of subplots blending into one, including Starlight using her experience as a former villain to offer a fresh perspective, Stygian’s backstory slowly completing, and the Pillar Six accidentally causing the birth of their fiercest foe.

Another is Cutie Map. A lot of imagery and symbolism related to Starlight’s authoritarian governing of her village, the WWII-inspired song, the theme of embracing individuality and disagreement, and the horrific brainwashing sequences.

[Thrond 3,263]

Probably not the first one people think of, but “A Hearth’s Warming Tale” twists an old Charles Dickens story into a thoughtful allegory for Starlight’s backstory - a portrait of someone who does the wrong thing for the wrong reasons but still cares about doing the right thing.

“Father Knows Beast” actually might qualify - a story about a child who longs for things his surrogate parent cannot provide, and how that yearning opens him up to manipulation. It’s about an absence in Spike’s life which Twilight cannot fill alone. It really is heartbreaking. 

[KH7672 1,604]

11 hours ago, RulesofRarity said:

2) To Change A Changeling

I believe you're talking about "The Times They Are A Changeling"

11 hours ago, RulesofRarity said:

Also LOL at Starlight, a reformed criminal, being apprehensive towards a reformed Changeling.

In the defense of the world building, Starlight was a criminal of her own individual intention, everything she did she did out of her own volition. Changelings on the other hand, have been raised from birth to be a hivemind for the Queen. I definitely see the xenophobia aspect of the episode but in the context of the world it's more fear in what the sighting of one Changeling could mean, (that being an imminent invasion) versus the apprehension to the Changeling itself. Not the best conveyed in the episode but that is where part of the thought provoking discussion lies.

Also in Starlight's defense, besides Twilight who has more connection to Spike, she was the only pony to stop being apprehensive during Spike's song.

As for thought provoking, for me personally any Starlight episode in general because I just love talking about her characterization.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,596]

"Marks and Recreation" - Rumble's belief that a Cutie Mark predetermines one's life and takes away the ability to give one's life their own meaning felt very existential. 

[RulesofRarity 493]

10 hours ago, KH7672 said:

I believe you're talking about "The Times They Are A Changeling"

Thanks.

10 hours ago, KH7672 said:

 

In the defense of the world building, Starlight was a criminal of her own individual intention, everything she did she did out of her own volition. Changelings on the other hand, have been raised from birth to be a hivemind for the Queen. I definitely see the xenophobia aspect of the episode but in the context of the world it's more fear in what the sighting of one Changeling could mean, (that being an imminent invasion) versus the apprehension to the Changeling itself. Not the best conveyed in the episode but that is where part of the thought provoking discussion lies.

Also in Starlight's defense, besides Twilight who has more connection to Spike, she was the only pony to stop being apprehensive during Spike's song.

 

Yeah, I agree. I was just making a jab at Starlight. I just find it rather interesting that Starlight who was pretty open to befriending Trixie, was very quick to raise arms against the Changeling. Although, the princesses of love and friendship respectively are guilty of this too.

[cuteycindyhoney 13,309]

"Tanks for the memories" It gave us a little peak at how a pony would react to the death of a close friend.

[Them's Seeing Ponies 282]

I'm mildly intrigued that no user has mentioned Bloom and Gloom yet - whilst the scenarios the episode depicts are clearly referenced to be overexaggerated interpretations of reality (by proxy of being fabrications of Apple Bloom's mind - an anxiety-stricken kid/teenager isn't exactly a reliable source of rationality), it does imply some compelling insight into the nature of cutie marks - is their meaning fully inflexible or not? How would a pony react to receiving one they didn't ask for or exactly want (Apploosa's Most Wanted did raise a variant of this point briefly before being subsequently dragged down by the convoluted logic and mechanics of the plot surrounding it)? How would these situations be perceived through the mind of a child, and furthermore, how do they link to and change Apple Bloom's previous mark-based apprehension? While the episode itself doesn't exactly imply these directly, it does harness its enigmatic, dreamlike tone and range of scenarios to encourage the viewer to interrogate its content and subtext (otherwise the kind of principle a thought-provoking episode should aspire to include). In that regard, it's almost a shame that the show hasn't endeavoured to explore more realistic interpretations of the episode's points since - Apploosa's Most Wanted played its themes simplistically to the extent of drowning them in illogicality, whilst Marks and Recreation raised a compelling point on the nature of CMs and subsequently proceeded to barely engage with it in favor of a relatively rote plot and a decent (if cliched) moral. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Them's Seeing Ponies

[Will Guide 21,362]

On 6/16/2019 at 2:15 PM, cuteycindyhoney said:

"Tanks for the memories" It gave us a little peak at how a pony would react to the death of a close friend.

Tank didn't die. Rainbow had to accept that Tank wouldn't be able to do the Winter stuff with her. Fluttershy flat out said Tank would be back in the spring.

 

And as much as people hate Fame and Misfortune, it stills shows an undeniable truth that there's always going to be fans who missed the point of your product. As TvTropes puts it, the Aesop of that is likely Some people will take your product as an excuse to fight and argue with each other. It's best to just learn to deal with them and concentrate on the people who appreciate it for what it is.

 

Still perhaps if they had made an entire 2nd act where the more positive side of the fan base is shown and the Mane 6 come to the conclusion that everyone sees their Friendship Journal and its lessons differently, the Episode might have stood a better chance with the real life fanbase

Edited August 1, 2019 by Will Guide

[cuteycindyhoney 13,309]

2 hours ago, Will Guide said:

Tank didn't die. Rainbow had to accept that Tank wouldn't be able to do the Winter stuff with her. Fluttershy flat out said Tank would be back in the spring.

I KNOW Tank didn't die. The story is an allegory. I am not the only one who came to this conclusion. Rainbow actually goes through the 5 stages of grieving. This post explains my thoughts exactly!

https://mlpforums.com/topic/126648-s05e05-tanks-for-the-memories/?do=findComment&comment=3701622

 

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by cuteycindyhoney

[Will Guide 21,362]

8 hours ago, cuteycindyhoney said:

I KNOW Tank didn't die. The story is an allegory. I am not the only one who came to this conclusion. 

 

Well, I already know it's an allegory as well. I know all about the 5 stages of grief. I play Majora's Mask which also has a similar allegory

And by the way, people forget the stages of grief are not an exact order and science. It depends on the person grieving. Take me for instance, when I grief, I usually skip Anger and spend most of my time in the Depression stage ,which by the way shouldn't be called that. That "depression" stage should simply be called the Sadness stage

According to a medical website real Depression nowadays is a clinical condition that can become deadly if left untreated while Grief can be defined as a natural response to any loss, including physical, cognitive, emotional, behavioral and spiritual responses. Source

Even Pete Docter said when making Inside Out, There originally was an antagonistic force/character known as "Gloom". However, it ended up being too close to depression for comfort, and Docter didn't want to demean real depression sufferers by having their condition be defeated at the end of the movie, since real depression never just goes away like that.

David Kellser who work alongside the creator of the Grief Stages Elisabeth Kübler-Ross to write a book on it, acknowledged that grief is not that simple (source) and since then other stages such as feeling guilty for the cause of one's grief whether or not they really are to blame and finding meaning and hope after accepting that the event in question has happened (source)

See, Tanks for the Memories really was a thought provoking episode to get me to go and learn what real Depression is and that the 5 stages of grief are not necessarily an exact step-by-step process. Rainbow Dash doesn't have that; it was just basic grief and having to accept she can't play with Tank during the winter months

Edited August 1, 2019 by Will Guide