Who is the best role model for the kids?

[Sparklefan1234 183,998]

I went with Sunset Shimmer because, even though she made a HUGE mistake, she did everything she could to learn from it &

change herself for the better. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Sparklefan1234

[Pentium100 2,331]

11 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

It was kind of a normalisation storu from the beginning, (friends are good for everyone!),  but the nature did change over time in perhpas preventable ways.

That was acceptable IMO, because 1) being completely alone would be bad and 2) it showed that different people could become good friends and learn to accommodate each other even if they wouldn't normally tolerate each other in the same room for long.

Completely changing the career/life of someone though...

[Latecomer 441]

1 minute ago, Pentium100 said:

That was acceptable IMO, because 1) being completely alone would be bad and 2) it showed that different people could become good friends and learn to accommodate each other even if they wouldn't normally tolerate each other in the same room for long.

Completely changing the career/life of someone though...

Well iv isn't unknown for someone that age to end up in a different field than they had planned, but besides the shift to a more social role there was also the meddling from above.

[Pentium100 2,331]

Just now, Latecomer said:

Well iv isn't unknown for someone that age to end up in a different field than they had planned, but besides the shift to a more social role there was also the meddling from above.

No, it isn't, but I do not think that it is common without pressure from parents/etc.

[Latecomer 441]

1 minute ago, Pentium100 said:

No, it isn't, but I do not think that it is common without pressure from parents/etc.

Folk often go into uni with one major and walk out on another path, but I don't know how many of them were following their heart both before and after, it's true.

[TotallyNotNyx 15,572]

3 hours ago, Super Splashee said:

She is real. A real sweetheart

 

Except in the first Movie, she was the worst role model

I think I admire Sunset from the first movie uno. A horde of teen zombie thingies to take over Equestria. Actually a great idea 

[Pentium100 2,331]

11 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

Folk often go into uni with one major and walk out on another path, but I don't know how many of them were following their heart both before and after, it's true.

From what I have seen, those people usually study what is "fashionable" or "expected to earn a lot", for example, law, management or economics (if you study either of these in my country, you most likely will not get a job in that field). I have also seen people ask "what should I study?" and their hobbies consist of watching TV etc.

Again, it is possible for someone to change completely, but it more likely is because of outside pressure to become more "normal" and to do what is "expected of you".

And the end result of MLP is that a pony who was a nerd (which is especially not typical for a girl) got forced into a mold to become more normal. So, "you can be yourself as long as you are not a nerd" I guess. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Pentium100

[Latecomer 441]

4 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

Again, it is possible for someone to change completely, but it more likely is because of outside pressure to become more "normal" and to do what is "expected of you".

And the end result of MLP is that a pony who was a nerd (which is especially not typical for a girl) got forced into a mold to become more normal. So, "you can be yourself as long as you are not a nerd" I guess. 

Or the opposite - breaking free from the expected path and discovering uour true passion. A pitu Twilight got something more like the opposite (although I don't think she'll ever stop being a nerd). 

[Pentium100 2,331]

Just now, Latecomer said:

Or the opposite - breaking free from the expected path and discovering uour true passion. A pitu Twilight got something more like the opposite (although I don't think she'll ever stop being a nerd). 

That is true.

While Twilight may never stop being a nerd, she is stuck with a crappy (for her) job. Especially one that does not leave much time for hobbies (we saw how many duties Celestia had in "A Royal Problem" - she barely had time to talk with Luna). Now, could Twilight have done something to delegate some of the duties to other ponies and have more free time for stuff that she actually likes? In theory, yes, but most likely she went with "if Celestia could do it, I can do it or I'll be a disappointment". 

I know that in her place I would have seen that coming in season 4 or 5 and noped out of it (probably would not have told Celestia where to shove her plans, but made sure she reconsidered them).

The "friendship is magic" thing got really weird in the later seasons, almost Cozy Glow level weird.

[Latecomer 441]

1 minute ago, Pentium100 said:

That is true.

While Twilight may never stop being a nerd, she is stuck with a crappy (for her) job. Especially one that does not leave much time for hobbies (we saw how many duties Celestia had in "A Royal Problem" - she barely had time to talk with Luna). Now, could Twilight have done something to delegate some of the duties to other ponies and have more free time for stuff that she actually likes? In theory, yes, but most likely she went with "if Celestia could do it, I can do it or I'll be a disappointment". 

I know that in her place I would have seen that coming in season 4 or 5 and noped out of it (probably would not have told Celestia where to shove her plans, but made sure she reconsidered them).

The "friendship is magic" thing got really weird in the later seasons, almost Cozy Glow level weird.

not that weird, just kind of big-scale and missionary.

It would have been nice if alongside the increased diversitu, we had seen some tech advancement in the future Equestria which could be attributed to a scientist princess.

[Pentium100 2,331]

Just now, Latecomer said:

not that weird, just kind of big-scale and missionary.

Weird in-universe.

In season 1, "friendship is magic" was a metaphor - working together makes it easier to defeat evil (or do something else). Well, having magical artifacts also helps a lot. 
In the later seasons it almost became literal and Cozy Glow actually though it was literal and I can kind-of understand her. Twilight went from "really strong mage and part-time Spetsnaz" to "school manager and part-time Spetsnaz", her spellcasting abilities only being relevant if there is an evil to defeat, but still, the relation of friendship to magic is being kept, with Twilight's cutie mark meaning she is good at "magic" somehow making her good at "friendship" and even the princess of friendship. So, in the later seasons, friendship is almost some kind of physical power, like a gun or gasoline.

[Latecomer 441]

2 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

Weird in-universe.

In season 1, "friendship is magic" was a metaphor - working together makes it easier to defeat evil (or do something else). Well, having magical artifacts also helps a lot. 
In the later seasons it almost became literal and Cozy Glow actually though it was literal and I can kind-of understand her. Twilight went from "really strong mage and part-time Spetsnaz" to "school manager and part-time Spetsnaz", her spellcasting abilities only being relevant if there is an evil to defeat, but still, the relation of friendship to magic is being kept, with Twilight's cutie mark meaning she is good at "magic" somehow making her good at "friendship" and even the princess of friendship. So, in the later seasons, friendship is almost some kind of physical power, like a gun or gasoline.

No, friendship was always changed into power via the Elements and the like. On its own, it's just a good way to live.

And I didn't notice Twilightt's use of magic declining, but I suppose I might have missed it - still seemed like bovh she and Starlight used it a lot.

[Pentium100 2,331]

Just now, Latecomer said:

And I didn't notice Twilightt's use of magic declining, but I suppose I might have missed it - still seemed like bovh she and Starlight used it a lot.

I have the impression that as the seasons went on, Twilight would find or create some new awesome spell less and less often. And she even told Starlight to not solve all her problems with magic, even though the problem that was presented is to put plates and forks on a table - something that probably any unicorn would do with magic.

Or course, this is not based on any statistics or anything, just my impression which can be wrong.

2 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

No, friendship was always changed into power via the Elements and the like. On its own, it's just a good way to live.

In the beginning, yes. Near the end things kind-of got murkier. That is, in the beginning it was simple - friendship between these specific ponies activates magical artifacts and produces power to defeat evil. Friendship between the CMCs, for example, did not result in power etc. Later on, IIRC, friendship between the students did result in power.

Again, this is my impression and I would probably have to rewatch a coupe of seasons to make more sense here.

[Latecomer 441]

3 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

I have the impression that as the seasons went on, Twilight would find or create some new awesome spell less and less often. And she even told Starlight to not solve all her problems with magic, even though the problem that was presented is to put plates and forks on a table - something that probably any unicorn would do with magic.

Or course, this is not based on any statistics or anything, just my impression which can be wrong.

In the beginning, yes. Near the end things kind-of got murkier. That is, in the beginning it was simple - friendship between these specific ponies activates magical artifacts and produces power to defeat evil. Friendship between the CMCs, for example, did not result in power etc. Later on, IIRC, friendship between the students did result in power.

Again, this is my impression and I would probably have to rewatch a coupe of seasons to make more sense here.

Well, the students were clearly meant to be successors of a sort. now the Map did call more varied ponies over time, but friendship is a thing of connectionns after all - so those connected to the Bearers are also part of itm and so on. .

As for magical creativtu - I noticed that other unicorns stopped using magic beyond telekinises early on, but it seemed like the mages kept at it - perhpas that was more Starlight than Twilight, but it would take a proper check to tell.

[Pentium100 2,331]

Just now, Latecomer said:

I noticed that other unicorns stopped using magic beyond telekinises early on

The way I understood it at the beginning of the show was that TK and some other simple spells were common for all unicorns, but each unicorn also gets a few spells that are related to his or her cutie mark (for example, Rarity could find gems). Maybe learning other spells is also possible, but difficult or the pony just does not care enough. Twilight's cutie mark meant magic itself, so she was able to learn lots of different spells, Starlight seems the same. Also, ponies have different levels of power (so, one pony may be able to lift heavier or more object with TK than another pony).

Later Twilight went from studying "magic" and spells to studying the "magic of friendship" and later tried to teach it for a while, which was made to look like a real power, not just essentially a requirement for the Elements to activate.

[Latecomer 441]

4 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

The way I understood it at the beginning of the show was that TK and some other simple spells were common for all unicorns, but each unicorn also gets a few spells that are related to his or her cutie mark (for example, Rarity could find gems). Maybe learning other spells is also possible, but difficult or the pony just does not care enough. Twilight's cutie mark meant magic itself, so she was able to learn lots of different spells, Starlight seems the same. Also, ponies have different levels of power (so, one pony may be able to lift heavier or more object with TK than another pony).

Indeed. But the bolded part mostlu stopped happeing after Season 1, with Raritu in particualar losing most of her repetoire.

5 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

 

Later Twilight went from studying "magic" and spells to studying the "magic of friendship" and later tried to teach it for a while, which was made to look like a real power, not just essentially a requirement for the Elements to activate.

I don't think she stopped studuing spells, especiallu wivh Starlight in her house. And I don't thinnk what she was teaching inn school was magic, reallu - just pure friendship.

[Pentium100 2,331]

Just now, Latecomer said:

And I don't thinnk what she was teaching inn school was magic, reallu - just pure friendship

That was kind-of my point. It feels like somewhere during the show the "friendship is magic" went from a metaphor to be almost literal. Again, that is my impression and I would have to rewatch a lot to be able to formulate it better.

7 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

I don't think she stopped studuing spells, especiallu wivh Starlight in her house.

We do not see that though. It looks like Twilight went from nerd to nerd with social skills, to a psychologist*, to a psychology teacher to a politician. While being part-time Spetsnaz of course.

* well, solving "friendship problems" and teaching "friendship" probably falls under psychology.

[Latecomer 441]

20 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

That was kind-of my point. It feels like somewhere during the show the "friendship is magic" went from a metaphor to be almost literal. Again, that is my impression and I would have to rewatch a lot to be able to formulate it better.

We do not see that though. It looks like Twilight went from nerd to nerd with social skills, to a psychologist*, to a psychology teacher to a politician. While being part-time Spetsnaz of course.

* well, solving "friendship problems" and teaching "friendship" probably falls under psychology.

I think this is defintlu the kind of broad impression that would need a lot of time to check. Perhaps mi own perception of her lags because I already know what she's like. 

[Dark Qiviut 22,638]

Hmmmmm…

Every single character listed in the poll can be considered a role model for children. Each of them has their strengths to show how good they are as people, yet they all have issues that cause problems for them to correct. How these kids respond to their actions is individual. Nobody regardless of age sees a character exactly the same.

To be honest, it really comes down to personal preference; since FS’s my favorite, I’m picking her.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Dark Qiviut

[Jane 123]

 

I'd say Starlight, but I think I'm being partial to my favorite pony, she learned identifiable lessons that you can apply in the real world, like when she learned that she shouldn't sell her friend's valuable and important things, when she learned to communicate better with her father, when she learned to establish rules and separate her work hours and free hours, when she learned that friends are not always the best option for a job, even if you want to be close to her, and most importantly, when she learned to respect other ponies.

For me a good role model is not the perfect pony that respects others, who knows when to say or do something, who is kind to everyone and has perfect morals, a good role model is the pony who learns to do it .

 

13 hours ago, Pentium100 said:

Honestly, while I like Twilight, I think that what the show has done with (to) her is a bit disappointing. While you could interpret her story as "even a bookworm can learn to become a leader", at the same time it is possible to interpret it as "being a bookworm is bad, you have to get a career that involves interacting with lots of people and no longer have time for books".

It kind-of becomes a "normalization"-type story (I am sure there is a proper name for that, but I do not know it), something that obviously goes against the moral of "be yourself". I do not know if this is off-topic here or not though.

 

This, and the rest of what you've said is how I feel about the past few seasons, the series' concept about magic and friendship, and Twilight. They made Twilight an outgoing character, when you can't change nature, and her nature is introverted, but she was acting as an extrovert in season 9, and all of this 'friendship is magic' went from a metaphor to how your friendship with your friends can be magical, to be literal, and friendship now seemed like a weapon of defense, and Cozy Glow was right in saying 'friendship is power', because  Twilight gained more magic power as the series progressed, and this power was closely related to 'friendship', and this 'friendship' is the reason why Twilight was crowned ruler of Equestria. Also, this whole friendship thing seems to be a mold, a doctrine, or whatever. Let's compare Sunset to Twilight, Sunset was a 'lost case' because she didn't accomplish the requirements of Celestia's 'ideal pony', who was expecting a pony exactly like Twilight, unable to think for herself.

[Pentium100 2,331]

1 hour ago, Jane said:

Sunset was a 'lost case' because she didn't accomplish the requirements of Celestia's 'ideal pony', who was expecting a pony exactly like Twilight, unable to think for herself.

Sunset got lucky. Then again, she did want to take over the world once, so, maybe Sunset or Starlight would have been better options for the main princess.

The difference between them and Twilight is that Twilight is obsessed with trying to be perfect and seeking approval from Celestia. Maybe that's why Sunset left - Celestia tried to force her into a mold as well and Sunset just told Celestia where to shove that mold.