A possible way to fix G5

[Casey Pones 87]

If you've seen my post on My little pony, Make your mark you'll know I think it's a mess for so many reasons.

But I have come up with what I believe is a way to fix it. I'm not arrogant enough to say I've come to the rescue of pony fans everywhere or that I know better then anyone else. But I do love G4 and have some skill at writing. Skill which I have put towards developing a possible plotline new season of G5, assuming there is one. 

It is not clear what is happening with the show. To the best of my knowledge, Make your Mark season one (or whatever the 4 chapters amount to) is over and there are no plans for a second season this year. Tell Your Tale on the other hand is still going and new episodes are planned to be regularly released throughout the year. What this means for G5 is unclear. One possibility is that Tell Your Tale will end this year and so will G5. Or possibly TYT will become the new G5 show with full episodes instead of shorts. Another possibility could be that  G5 will continue under a new name and new 3D show next year while TYT holds the fort and provides new content.

It seems the show (The 3D one at least) my be on hold. Hopefully they are using this time to reassess the situation, take in the criticism and make the show better. So I'm posting this now, not just because I want to share my ideas but because I'm hoping this will catch the attention of whoever's working on G5, that someone here has a contact in the studio and will show them this. Frankly I have such confidence that what follows is a good idea it should at least be considered by the professionals.

This is not a perfect fix but short of rebooting Make your Mark, it's the best I can do. One good thing about the inconsistent backstories we've had in MYM is that we could say in the show that the real version has been lost 

Spoiler

If Hasbro does use this, I would consider what follows spoilers.

First thing to be addressed is Spike and the other dragons. As I said in my criticism of MYM, to go as far as to redesign their entire anatomy was a step way too far, so they should go back to being bipedal. How? Well I think the best way to do it would be for the dragons to just show up like that and everyone roll with it. They did it with princess Luna between the way she looked in the pilot and Luna Eclipsed and got away with it. And yes I know they had a brief transition in the comics but I'm not sure if that's cannon

We might even be able to have a little fun with it. I see the new series beginning like this...

 

EXT. MARETIME BAY - DAY

We open on a pleasant scene in town, seeing the new Mane 6 together when Spike and some other dragons fly in and land in front of them. They are all now bipedal and Spike looks more like the chiselled square-jawed chad he was at the end of G4.

SUNNY

Spike! Great to see you back on your feet after being in Opaline's power.

SPIKE

Yes, back on my two feet. The same two feet I've always had, had this whole time and will always have.

Spike looks directly at the "camera" making a 4th wall break that would have made Pinky proud.

SPIKE

Happy now?

 

Spike goes on to explain why he's in Maretime Bay. As his memory has now fully returned after hibernation (a convenient happening for G5 writers) he needs their help finding a missing dragon he just remembered... His wife, Dragon Lord Ember!

If they were married it would an explanation as to how Spike became the Dragon Lord. Spike could even say how, once he finally realised Rarity just wanted to be friends, he moved past his boyish crush and opened his mind to other possibilities, like the beautiful, determined and fearless dragoness he already knew. Besides, Applegeek shipped them as soon as he saw them.

Spike goes on to say how they realised Ember was missing when a census was taken once all the dragons awoke. Or possibly she went of on some mission alone before the hibernation began. Or better possibly Spike doesn't say who it is or their relationship to him for a better reveal later.

Either way they embark on a quest to find her in some far off part of their world and succeed.

 

Then a second plotline begins.

At some point the new mane six start having the same dream, a pony they know asking to come find them. Believing it's more then a dream they set off in the Marestream, possibly with Spike, and find themselves in the Everfree forest. After exploring they come across a grove made of beautiful crystal trees. At the centre of which they find a giant crystal tree house. A spectral pony appears before them, shifting form between various ponies they knew. It introduces itself as the Tree of Harmony! And the area around them is the Grove of Harmony, the Tree's children and grandchildren. The tree then explains the new main six are the new elements of harmony.

Misty - Loyalty

Izzy - Laughter

Pip - Generosity

Zip - Honesty

Hitch - Kindness

Sunny - Magic

(Zip and honesty aren't the best match but the best I could do to get the set)

And as such they have inherited the mantel of the 6 along with Twilight's castle and the map inside. Thus they begin going on friendship quests all over Equestria.

Also the tree gives us the origin of the hope lantern. In TYT we see Izzy put a magical rock inside. We could say that rock came off the Tree of Harmony, giving it it's powers. It was the powers of harmony that created the Marestream, leaving an empty seat for whoever became the missing element of harmony.

 

As of this writing, recent events in Tell your Tale indicate that they're going on a quest to find Skyros, the land of the Alicorns. Here's what should happen, after an epic quest to find the place they are greeted by Celestia, Luna, Cadence and a grown-up Flurry Heart! They explain they've all been living here since the bubble when up over Equestria. At one point they introduce the six to some characters off screen.

EXT. SKYROS - DAY

Sunny, Izzy, Hitch, Pip, Zip and Misty stare agape directly into the camera in front of them, minds boggled at what they are seeing, none more then Sunny who is to amazed to speak.

SUNNY

Y... yyy... you! You, you, you and you... don't look like what I though you would.

FAMILIAR VOICE

Oh you must be thinking of how we used to look. I'd say now we're at least...

The camera swings around revealing the mystery crowd. 

FAMILAIR VOICE

...20% cooler.

It's Rainbow Dash, Rarity, Pinky Pie, Fluttershy and Applejack and they're all ALICORNS! Pinky looks at the audience.

PINKY PIE

Say it with me now... Alicorn Party!

End

 

So at some point after the end of season 9 the rest of the original Mane Six became alicorns. And why not? Haven't they done as much and been as exceptional as Twilight? Besides this is something a lot of us fans have wanted and it would be enough fan service for us to forgive a LOT! Speaking of fan service, Fluttershy is in Skyros with Discord... her husband! I know this doen't fit with the comics but I'm not sure they're cannon. Also they'll all be Celestia-sized, and since they're grown alicorns we could potentially use new voice actresses and say their voices matured.

In the next episode they go on to explain how they became alicorns, the full story of how Opeline tried to take over, how and why Twilight created the Crystals and the Dragon stone, why the dragons went into hibernation and how they ended up in Skyros after Twilight's bubble locked them out of Equestria. That Twilight had the cyrstal stored in Maretime Bay's lighthouse. And moons later went off on a mission to defeat Opaline but never returned. Missing for many moons ago despite everyone's attempts to find her. The original mane six are distressed to learn that Equestria fell apart while it was inside the bubble. The plan was to keep Equestria safe from Opaline and it's magic away from her while they tried to find a way to take her down. But they knew the unity magic created by ponykind would eventually cause a surge that would break the bubble. Hence Twilight's message in the crystals.

So they all go on a quest to find Twilight and over the course of the season they make an incredible discovery... It was Twilight who brought down Equestria! She tried to defeat Opaline but she was so powerful that the Twilight gave up. She knew the bubble would be broken when pony magic grew strong enough. So in desperation Twilight somehow got inside the bubble, separated the unity crystals and used a Memory Stone to make all of pony kind forget they were friends. Thus splitting them all up to make sure the magic couldn't grow any more. Twilight teleported each ponykind to the towns of Maretime Bay, Zephyr Heights and Bridlewood, leaving the rest of the kingdom abandoned.

They find Twilight and restore her hope. When they ask why she's Celestia sized in person but normal in the message, she says "Legal reasons" and glances at the camera and smirks for another 4th wall joke.

Then they all visit the ruins of Ponyville with Spike. It's a very emotional moment, seeing their old homes, Twilight's castle and the School of Friendship in ruins... It's a painful reminder that everything the worked and fought for, Equestria and friendship is gone. Then Sunny says something inspiring  and the original mane six, who have now repaired their friendship the decide to use their powerful Alicorn magic to restore the town like Twilight once restored that dam, recolonise it, restore the School of Friendship and re-educate ponykind on friendship.

In season 3 we work in reintroducing the other sentient species, reclaiming the rest of the lost towns and cities, possibly reuniting the city states into a new Equestria. I expect Opaline will return anyway as the TYT remake of the battle indicated that. And there's still the possibility Tirek, Chrysalis and Cozyglow could still be released from their petrified prison. And even reconnecting to the human realm, it would have to be very futuristic now as it's clear Equestria's time isn't like Narnia.

 

So that's my idea to repair the damage done by MYM and put G5 on track to being a worthy sucsessor. I know it seems like I'm trying to rebuild G4 but if so, why not? Sunny did say they could regain all that was lost. What do you think? Do any of you know a way we could get this to Hasbro?

Oh and we need some explanation as to why everyone was freaked out when Flurryheart was born an Alicorn when it's cannon now. And yes I know the Journal of the 2 sisters said that but I consider the show to trump the other material.

[WickedGames 240]

I think these stories should stay in the realms of fanfiction 

[Goat-kun 2,527]

Hasdrone#1: This shit ain't making us money.

Hasdrone#2: Shut it down.

GabeN: I'm buying MLP with this here stack of cash.

Hasdrone#1: It's fine. Let him have it. We still have WotC.

WotC: I haven't been able to move my right side for ages.

Jeff Bezos: It speaks the truth. I'm canceling my order. Frieren has wrecked my elf anyway.

Hasdrone#2 glances at the dead rat in a corner: Well shit.

 

THE END

[Casey Pones 87]

On 2024-04-11 at 4:48 PM, WickedGames said:

I think these stories should stay in the realms of fanfiction 

What's so bad about them?

[WickedGames 240]

1 hour ago, Casey Pones said:

What's so bad about them?

How much time do you need?

On 2024-04-12 at 7:48 AM, Goat-kun said:

Hasdrone#1: This shit ain't making us money.

 

Hasdrone#2: Shut it down.

 

GabeN: I'm buying MLP with this here stack of cash.

 

Hasdrone#1: It's fine. Let him have it. We still have WotC.

 

WotC: I haven't been able to move my right side for ages.

 

Jeff Bezos: It speaks the truth. I'm canceling my order. Frieren has wrecked my elf anyway.

 

Hasdrone#2 glances at the dead rat in a corner: Well shit.

 

 

 

THE END

And then Twilight wakes up from this and Starlight keeps telling that all of this was a bad nightmare lol

[Axiom Crash 87]

Blegh. I don't know enough to comment fully on what you've written, but the canon of mlp:fim was screwy too. A lot of stuff had to be ironed out in fanon, and almost all the issues were created in the service of one goal: Merchandisability.

Aaaaand that's always the cause of MLP's trash fires, and a fixed-up trash fire is still a trash fire.

Point being, saying something like:
 

On 2024-04-11 at 10:48 AM, WickedGames said:

I think these stories should stay in the realms of fanfiction 

Isn't necessarily an insult. MLP has only ever been coherent in fanfiction for me. The fact there are many ways you can iron out the details and "fix" the setting in your own way is, I think, one of the things that has made it such fertile ground for fanfiction in the first place.

Anyways, Ember and Spike being married is certainly plausible, but ... also not necessary? I haven't finished G4, unfortunately, so I've never seen Ember, but from what I know about the dragons, they care more about strength than they do about laws, so all Spike has to do to become dragon lord is get enough of them to back him. Just like real kings. (Monarchs returning from campaigns in other lands would have to go through a process known as "reclaiming the throne" where they literally had to do just that, get a majority of the powers that be agree to let them retake power. They didn't always succeed. Power has always been like this. People have always cared more about stability than legitimacy. The only reason they appeal to legitimacy at all is because others are interested in protecting the institution of legitimacy insofar as it protects their own interests. The relevancy here is just to demonstrate that badassitude beats tradition every time, and we all know Spike is badass enough to become Dragon Lord if the seat is vacant.)

Plus, you know, Celestia and Luna retired. Why not Ember? From what little I've gathered of her character, she never seemed too keen on ruling in the first place.

Mostly, I'm just pointing out here that your specific resolution to that one problem has multiple ways of being addressed, and any time you put a ship in a fan theory (even if that's not your intent), you should expect some controversy.

In any case, there's my (hopefully constructive?) thoughts. I only watched the Next Generation halfway through before my eyes glazed over. I haven't really made my mind up about it yet, but I've at least enjoyed the conversations I've had with the AI based on the characters, especially the part where Izzy told me there were a bunch of broken-down time machines just laying out there in the bay. And that, right there, is my theory: Magical singularity, ponies invent time machines and then absolute chaos and then this is just one of the crazy timelines that results from the subsequent chaos.

Edit to Add: And now I'm reading the rest of your post. Granted, I won't really recognize the characters, but I don't want to just ignore most of what you posted. So ... second post incoming...

Edited April 19 by Axiom Crash

[Axiom Crash 87]

Okay, a few things are jumping out at me right away.

Let me just say: Not trying to offend. I may be blunt or insensitive, but it's not intended to be violent, just direct and to the point. I don't think what you've written is bad, necessarily, just overtly risky.

I'm mostly posting this, by the way, because I saw WickedGames's post's and wanted to try to respond to the question of "why would it be controversial and/or damaging to the brand". But I guess I'm offering my thoughts about everything to.

Like, first thing, "new elements of harmony" immediately strikes me as worrisome, for a few reasons. The first is that MLP as a franchise has clearly reinvented itself at least once. The connections to G4 are clearly there to try to rope in the massive fanbase they had from the prior incarnation of the franchise, but they've got a whole new art direction and have to appeal to a generation that isn't quite the same as the old one. They absolutely had to include cell phones to be relevant to today's kids, for example, and that creates a whole host of problems.

Here's the thing, cell phones suck. Sure, having a conversation at a distance is great, but being called sucks! It's so much nicer to receive a letter, handwritten and sent by dragon fire than to have your boss yelling in your ear to get to work already. So why would ponies invent something they didn't need? That absolutely rules out a smooth rollover from one generation to the next, there absolutely had to be a reset, from a worldbuilding perspective.

I think what the writers were asked to do was asinine, honestly:

• Totally reinvent the world to appeal to a new generation of kids and recreate that sense of wonder and exploration
• Then tie it back to a generation where all the exploration has already been done
• But without pissing off the older generation, who is already known to generate tons of controversy over perceived changes in the canon, because it's very easy to confuse the ironed-out fanon with the full-of-merchandisability-inflicted-continuity-holes canon.

And if I were a writer, I would be pretty annoyed at having to cater to two audiences with totally incompatible priorities! So they picked one of those things over the other, and I think G5 is stronger for it.

But that third bullet point is the real kicker here. We've got fans here that write about immortal Twilight mourning her friends, and Lauren Faust telling us Twilight won't outlive her friends ... but Celestia and Luna retired? Who's going to replace Twilight? How many attempts did it take Celestia to produce someone that could replace her? Does she really expect Twilight to produce a replacement faster than she did? OMG.

Anyways, I'm sure I had a point, but I don't remember it anymore. *Shrugs* Eh!

On 2024-03-28 at 8:43 PM, Casey Pones said:

At some point the new mane six start having the same dream, a pony they know asking to come find them. Believing it's more then a dream they set off in the Marestream, possibly with Spike, and find themselves in the Everfree forest. After exploring they come across a grove made of beautiful crystal trees. At the centre of which they find a giant crystal tree house. A spectral pony appears before them, shifting form between various ponies they knew. It introduces itself as the Tree of Harmony! And the area around them is the Grove of Harmony, the Tree's children and grandchildren. The tree then explains the new main six are the new elements of harmony.

...has the tree ever talked before? Legitimate question. Haven't finished G4, like I said.
 

On 2024-03-28 at 8:43 PM, Casey Pones said:

So at some point after the end of season 9 the rest of the original Mane Six became alicorns. And why not? Haven't they done as much and been as exceptional as Twilight? Besides this is something a lot of us fans have wanted and it would be enough fan service for us to forgive a LOT! Speaking of fan service, Fluttershy is in Skyros with Discord... her husband! I know this doen't fit with the comics but I'm not sure they're cannon. Also they'll all be Celestia-sized, and since they're grown alicorns we could potentially use new voice actresses and say their voices matured.

Oh ... oh my goodness, umm...

Imagine you're a kid, and suddenly, the characters from your parent's show intrude on yours, and start getting their muddy discordant hoofprints all over everything. The problem with this is that it caters *too much* to older fans over the identity of the new generation.

Leaving aside that not everyone feels the same way about the mane six becoming alicorns, and Lauren Faust's insistence that alicornhood doesn't imply immortality, the bigger problem is that it's unlikely that fans of G4 would actually be attracted to getting into G5 by such an inclusion. I mean, if it works, great! But if it doesn't, it looks really, really disingenuous. People who like G4 and G5 are already watching, and those who don't like G5 are not likely to change their minds based on this inclusion. It's just kind of ... not great when you start thinking about how it would actually play out in real life.

But I think it works in a multiverse sort of setting. A timeline where the mane six became alicorns is neat and functional, as that's kind of meant for 'what if' scenarios, but as long as we're dealing with a single timeline, that's just way too many pandora's boxes to be opening at the same time.

On 2024-03-28 at 8:43 PM, Casey Pones said:

At some point the new mane six start having the same dream, a pony they know asking to come find them. Believing it's more then a dream they set off in the Marestream, possibly with Spike, and find themselves in the Everfree forest. After exploring they come across a grove made of beautiful crystal trees. At the centre of which they find a giant crystal tree house. A spectral pony appears before them, shifting form between various ponies they knew. It introduces itself as the Tree of Harmony! And the area around them is the Grove of Harmony, the Tree's children and grandchildren. The tree then explains the new main six are the new elements of harmony.

I feel like shoehorning the new mane six into the elements of harmony is just kind of ... annoying in that it makes G5 beholden to the lore of G4 in a very rigid and inflexible way. I would much, much prefer something more creative, lore wise. To explain, we notice that in ancient times when the sisters wielded them against Discord (and each other, I think), the elements were simple gemstones, all uniform, so they've changed over time. There's no good reason they would remain the same from G4 to G5 and them having a new incarnation entirely is, I think, both appropriate and far more interesting.

Hmm...

Aside from that, what you've written does flow well, does seem to explain what you set out to explain (haven't watched enough to verify that myself, of course), and is probably still better than what we'll end up getting.

I think the biggest issue with bringing a dozen characters being brought back is that none of them will get enough time to feel like more than a cameo, and if they do, then they're taking the spotlight away from the main characters of the show. While fanfiction can run on as long as we like, a show's runtime is a finite resource.

Now I would absolutely love to see this, I would love to see what immortality does to the rest of the mane six and how their personalities have changed as they aged and gained wisdom. They would be entirely new characters, and I'd want to at least hear how their various ascensions went down and some of what they've been doing since the end of G4. And that, unfortunately, brings up the problem that the kids that haven't watched G4 won't have a clue about any of that background and won't benefit from it.

Aaaand ... that is also time that could also be used on worldbuilding for a city of freaking alicorns.

Ultimately, I think Hasbro would reject it because it takes way too many risks. This is an absolute firestorm of ragebait. There are many people I've seen say they stopped watching the show after Twilight ascended. The simple reality of the situation is that it's best to just let the past lie as much as Hasbro can manage and just reject the idea of honoring the past canon entirely. In my opinion, G5 shouldn't be beholden to G4, and I think making G5 an **AU** of G4 is far and away the best possible option.

... not sure this post is coherent. I wrote it over quite a few hours. But oh well.

[Axiom Crash 87]

Just watched this video, here, and he has an interesting theory that seemed relevant to this post.

Seems like rampant speculation with little basis in reality, honestly.

To summarize: One person at a con said that Discovery Channel, which now has the rights to air G4, wanted money from Hasbro when they heard they were reusing characters from G4 in G5. Which is kinda dumb, since Hasbro probably still owns the rights to the G4 characters.

Edited April 24 by Axiom Crash
Bleh. I'm too tired to think.

[Rafa Stary 2,991]

7 hours ago, Axiom Crash said:

Just watched this video, here, and he has an interesting theory that seemed relevant to this post.

Seems like rampant speculation with little basis in reality, honestly.

To summarize: One person at a con said that Discovery Channel, which now has the rights to air G4, wanted money from Hasbro when they heard they were reusing characters from G4 in G5. Which is kinda dumb, since Hasbro probably still owns the rights to the G4 characters.

I've talked about that exact same theory multiple times in like 90% of my posts about G5 in this forum, and just like the guy in the video, I also have no proofs for my theories