Christian bronies: meet, greet, and mingle!

[Sunwalker 981]

Thanks, @Sudo Krenton!

 

I think that you should had posted your answer on that debate thread, but that's fine if you do not want to take part .

 

By the way, I have replied there, and your answer have helped me.

[Sudo Krenton 243]

No problem. I'm glad it helped. My Highschool days consisted of reading philosophy and stuff like that anyway. What's even better is that I had been reading that book recently, so it was mere chance for it to be applied, hehe.

I might take part soon, but I recently took part in another debate and the logic /reasoning was horrific to the point that I need a breather from the pit.

I'm always open to help, just not directly at the moment. scratch that, I am participating now ;P

Edited August 9, 2015 by Sudo Krenton

[Sunwalker 981]

No problem. I'm glad it helped. My Highschool days consisted of reading philosophy and stuff like that anyway. What's even better is that I had been reading that book recently, so it was mere chance for it to be applied, hehe.

 

I might take part soon, but I recently took part in another debate and the logic /reasoning was horrific to the point that I need a breather from the pit.

 

I'm always open to help, just not directly at the moment. scratch that, I am participating now ;P

 

S'all good

 

I can relate with it, sometimes I get really absorbed into a debate and this can be mentally and emotionally tiring. So I manage my time and the number of subjects in order to avoid that, I do not necessarily reply at the time I see a new post, I usually just reads and let the answer forms itself through the day on my head, then I go and reply.

 

I am glad so far I did not see here any discussion that degenerated into personal attacks, this can be even more tiring. Around a month or two before I joined this forum I had on the same day heated discussions on the same topic about the same subject on two different Sonic forums I am member of, and the complicated part is that on those places there are a handful of people who will consider you a hateful person if you happen to disagree with them, and at the time I was the only one who came out publicly with a dissenting voice... 

 

Someone even tweeted about me to the admin of one of the forums referring to me as the "forum's resident ****bag". Fortunately this admin is a cool guy, and instead of banning me he joined the debate, albeit on a opposite side than me, and he ended up being the only one who argued against me in an educated manner, without being condescending. I really appreciate that.

 

On the outside, I managed to stay calm and I never resorted to any personal attacks. But on the inside I was mentally worn out, and this was affecting my body too: accelerated heart rate (110 to 120 bpm, if I remember well), low blood pressure, and sweating (even during sleep I kept sweating). Afterwards I got contacted by another member of also went through a similar thing as me back in 2013, he got slandered and depressed, but he managed to get over it with the help of mainly God and also the MLP fandom, who accepted him instead of demonizing him.

 

To be honest, he was one of the reasons that incentivated me to create an account here. I got to this forum through a completely unrelated Google search, and I stayed here because I remembered how accepting MLP fans were with him. He has an account here, but it is some time since he last logged in here. We still are in touch by other means, though .

 

It is interesting to see that, even when everything seems lost, how God can provide an way to help us, provided we help ourselves first .

[starshine wonder 79]

ok, I don't know about you guys, but.... *runs over to Steel to help patch up his wounds*

[Knight Hadron 372]

I can't find any proof or reason to believe in Christianity. I wish that it's true, as I've always believed in it, and I still am, even without logical reason. I just can't find any reason to believe in it, and I find many reasons against it. Help, anyone?

[Steel Accord 6,660]

I can't find any proof or reason to believe in Christianity. I wish that it's true, as I've always believed in it, and I still am, even without logical reason. I just can't find any reason to believe in it, and I find many reasons against it. Help, anyone?

 

Well what reason are you looking for? Do you think Jesus wasn't the son of God? Do you think there is no God? Do you think the Bible is wrong? Do you think living like Christ is wrong or not worth it?

[Knight Hadron 372]

Well what reason are you looking for? Do you think Jesus wasn't the son of God? Do you think there is no God? Do you think the Bible is wrong? Do you think living like Christ is wrong or not worth it?

 

I'm having trouble proving theism, and atheism is, at least right now, more logical. I can't prove the NT is the inspired Word either; nor can I show that Jesus is actually God. Plus, science seems to prove Genesis wrong.

[Sheheuwi9sidufud7eiwkn3 75]

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Edited November 27, 2020 by Sheheuwi9sidufud7eiwkn3

[Steel Accord 6,660]

I'm having trouble proving theism, and atheism is, at least right now, more logical. I can't prove the NT is the inspired Word either; nor can I show that Jesus is actually God. Plus, science seems to prove Genesis wrong.

 

Plenty of scientists and philosophers have made the argument for theism. Here, this website should be of some help.

 

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html

 

Plus no one can prove the New Testament is the inspired word, but it is proven to be a historical document. We KNOW Jesus of Nazareth was a real person and said the things He did. The New Testament itself is not the Word of God, the Word of God is the Word of God. The important thing isn't the Bible, it's Jesus and His teachings. Let me put it to you this way, if Jesus was not the son of God, would that make any of the following less true?

 

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

 

"For what shall it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his soul?"

 

"Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone."

 

Yes, science does prove the book of genesis to be factually wrong . . . and? Does that make the story of Adam and Eve any less about that all humans are capable of doing ill?

 

 

If it is Bill Nye's arguments that are getting to you, just let it roll off your back. Nye's an absolute idiot.

 

Whoah! Back up compadre! That is Bill Nye the science guy you are talking about! The guy who made it a point to teach and educate children in science, myself included. I may not agree with a lot of his views nowadays but the man is certainly not an idiot and it's not a Christian thing to call someone such.

 

 

 

He is apparently not capable of noticing global warming...

 

I thought he said global warming IS happening? 

[Knight Hadron 372]

I've gone through this also. The thing is that (I at least) interpret genesis allegorically. The flood happened? Of course. Maybe noah didn't pack one of EVERY animal onto his "ark" (more likely something like in the movie "Noah") but he put a ton on. If it is Bill Nye's arguments that are getting to you, just let it roll off your back. Nye's an absolute idiot. He is apparently not capable of noticing global warming...

 

Tell me what specifically is getting "proven" wrong. Science isn't perfect I might add.

I don't like Nye either. Don't worry. But if you go calling someone like Dawkins an idiot...

 

But, how do you interpret genesis? Evolution and humans-made-in-God's-image are not compatible.

 

Plenty of scientists and philosophers have made the argument for theism. Here, this website should be of some help.

 

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html

 

Plus no one can prove the New Testament is the inspired word, but it is proven to be a historical document. We KNOW Jesus of Nazareth was a real person and said the things He did. The New Testament itself is not the Word of God, the Word of God is the Word of God. The important thing isn't the Bible, it's Jesus and His teachings. Let me put it to you this way, if Jesus was not the son of God, would that make any of the following less true?

 

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

 

"For what shall it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his soul?"

 

"Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone."

 

Yes, science does prove the book of genesis to be factually wrong . . . and? Does that make the story of Adam and Eve any less about that all humans are capable of doing ill?

 

"Plenty of scientists and philosophers have made the argument for theism. *list of guys*"

 

Argumentum ad populum

 

"Plus no one can prove the New Testament is the inspired word, but it is proven to be a historical document. We KNOW Jesus of Nazareth was a real person and said the things He did. The New Testament itself is not the Word of God, the Word of God is the Word of God. The important thing isn't the Bible, it's Jesus and His teachings. Let me put it to you this way, if Jesus was not the son of God, would that make any of the following less true?"

 

Historical document != actually happened. It could be a legend/myth. How do you know Jesus said what is written? At least 30 years passed after his supposed death and before Mark was written. And, if Jesus was not the Son of God, it wouldn't make your Bible quotes less "true", it would just make the Bible into another piece of literature. A great, moral one, but fictional nonetheless.

 

"Yes, science does prove the book of genesis to be factually wrong . . . and? Does that make the story of Adam and Eve any less about that all humans are capable of doing ill?"

 

And....if the creation story is false, then why is Abram a real character? When does the book move from myth to reality? What about Adam and Eve? Paul talking about the New Adam? Adam+Eve=Husband+Wife? Original sin? Everything relies on Adam's sin. If Adam is real, why is the rest of the creation story false? If the creation story is allogory until Adam, and evolution happened, then when in the evolution process did God's image get into Adam? Eve was created out of Adam's ribs. That's plainly supernatural. You can't say that genesis is factually wrong AND the Word of God. You can't cherrypick, as Dawkins says.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

@@Knight Hadron,

 

Before I go on. Answer me this. Are these your words? I feel like these are arguments you've had bashed into your head so often you've internalized them. 

[Sunwalker 981]

I can't find any proof or reason to believe in Christianity. I wish that it's true, as I've always believed in it, and I still am, even without logical reason. I just can't find any reason to believe in it, and I find many reasons against it. Help, anyone?

 

My favorite argument for Christianity is its historicity, specially the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is the one thing that only God can do, it is something that completely changed early Christians. Before that, pretty much all apostles were cowards, only John stayed at the crucifixion until the end. The others ran away or denied Him. After crucifixion the apostles went into hiding, they had not to gain by inventing stuff as the empire was after them.

 

But after resurrection they had a complete change of heart, Pentecost happened. They had a new courage and strength, and the same to other Christians. They were no longer cowards, and were happily ready to even lose their lives if necessary. A change like that would not have happened if they had not seen something very special.

 

Also, if the history were invented it would not show the human flaws, they all would be unbeatable super heroes, not meek cowards, to use modern terms they would be "Mary Sues". In the Gospels even there are points that tells that existed arguments and discussions between the Apostles, and Christ had to call them out a few times. If someone is going to make up a story to persuade people to follow them, then it would never show their "dirty secrets". All these flaws add a element of realism to the story, which reinforce their authenticity.

 

I recommend reading this for more about the historicity of Christ:

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-evidence-for-jesus

[Sudo Krenton 243]

I would love to participate, but I have limited connection. I personally do think Genesis is not factually wrong. I think people aren't "open minded" when they go reading it.

 

Again, love to participate, but limited connection. I apologize. I have a lot to say too ;~;

[I used to be a stranger 7,993]

This post has been redacted by the author.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Blue

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Here's some proof of God's existence, I am friends with VERY intelligent people. 

[Sheheuwi9sidufud7eiwkn3 75]

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Edited November 27, 2020 by Sheheuwi9sidufud7eiwkn3

[Royal Bro-nee 36]

Guys..im just really having a hard time understanding atheist people.. I mean...they believe that when they die there will be no afterlife but..wouldn't it be better to be in heaven then just see nothing but pitch black forever? I just don't understand why atheists have to be rude to god like this. I know God says not to judge and things like that but I just don't understand...can someone help me understand? I mean..isn't being an atheist turning your back on God? And...do atheist believe that since "theres no god" meaning they can do whatever they want? such as sinful things? I know there are nice people who are atheist but still.. its hurting my head trying to figure out what their deal is. >_<

[Knight Hadron 372]

Anyways, some use evolution as a reason that the bible must be spoof. This does not even grab a foothold, you'll see why in a second.

 

[stuff]

But, when did God's image move into humans in the evolutionary process? When did Adam sin?

 

 

Guys..im just really having a hard time understanding atheist people.. I mean...they believe that when they die there will be no afterlife but..wouldn't it be better to be in heaven then just see nothing but pitch black forever? I just don't understand why atheists have to be rude to god like this. I know God says not to judge and things like that but I just don't understand...can someone help me understand? I mean..isn't being an atheist turning your back on God? And...do atheist believe that since "theres no god" meaning they can do whatever they want? such as sinful things? I know there are nice people who are atheist but still.. its hurting my head trying to figure out what their deal is. >_<

If atheists don't believe in God, then you can't say that they are "rude to God, by not believing in them", because in their minds He doesn't exist. Therefore, they can't be rude to a made-up being.

 

You can't say "you don't believe in God...but isn't it better to be in Heaven than pitch black". 1) Who says pitch black? 2) If the atheist doesn't believe in God, and doesn't believe in Heaven, you can't say God is true because Heaven is better than no Heaven.

 

Atheism isn't turning your back on God, because that assumes that God exists. It is saying that there is no God. And just because there is no God doesn't mean that they can "do anything they want". They aren't limited by some supernatural being's morals, they are subject to their own morals, such as empathy and the like. And saying that an atheist thinks they can do sinful things freely is illogical. An atheist doesn't believe in God, so they don't believe in sin. Therefore, they can't sin because there is no such thing as sin. Therefore, they can't say they can do sinful things freely because "sinful" means nothing to an atheist, except what religion says.

 

I hope that helped. Next time, please try to use proper grammar; it'll get your point across easier.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

 

 

But, when did God's image move into humans in the evolutionary process? When did Adam sin?

 

Well is "God's image" really that of Homo Sapiens or is "God's image" that of thought and consciousness? Remember 2001: A Space Odyessy?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wstIBq2H0z8

 

0:48 is when Adam sinned. 

 

 

They aren't limited by some supernatural being's morals, they are subject to their own morals, such as empathy and the like.

 

Need those be supernatural to be religious? 

[Sudo Krenton 243]

 

 

And...do atheist believe that since "theres no god" meaning they can do whatever they want? such as sinful things? I know there are nice people who are atheist but still.. its hurting my head trying to figure out what their deal is. >_<

Well, the thing is, anyone can do whatever they want. God gave us a free will. It's ours to choose. But to answer your question, no, not necessarily. They can choose to do whatever they want, but that doesn't mean that they do. There are a good deal of Atheists that I know who lead almost "Christian" lives and do the right thing. In addition to that, since part of Christianity is founded on the Natural Law, humans naturally.... follow Natural Law.

 

 

 

I just don't understand why atheists have to be rude to god like this. I know God says not to judge and things like that but I just don't understand...can someone help me understand? I mean..isn't being an atheist turning your back on God?

Well... ouhhh... this is interest. I wouldn't say it's rude, but I wouldn't say it's nice either. They have found something that they can't come to terms with, and that makes them disbelieve. So, let's say the world is, and I don't agree with that. I say it's flat. I'm not necessarily being rude to Columbus or scientists. I must have something that makes my reasoning say it's "flat." I don't really know what else to say, this is pretty touchy. There's a difference between being obstinate/hard-headed and being ill-informed/willing to be directed.

 

 

 

Guys..im just really having a hard time understanding atheist people.. I mean...they believe that when they die there will be no afterlife but..wouldn't it be better to be in heaven then just see nothing but pitch black forever?

I'm not sure how to reply to this. I feel like this is a question, but at the same time, I feel like it's one that doesn't require an answer(with how it's written). 

 

 

Switching Gears

 

Kinda something I was thinking of while I was painting walls today. Is morality alone it's proof of God's existence? Let's consider that the Big Bang occurred. Now we've got Earth and all that jazz, whoopdedoo. Now what? Lightning hits the pond of life, or something, and now we have creatures. Evolution happens. But how does man get morals, yet all the other animals he has evolved with don't, nor show signs of the coming of morals? It might suggest that humans were "awakened" at some point (Eden), and.... I dunno. Thoughts?

[Knight Hadron 372]

Well is "God's image" really that of Homo Sapiens or is "God's image" that of thought and consciousness? Remember 2001: A Space Odyessy?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wstIBq2H0z8

 

0:48 is when Adam sinned. 

 

 

 

Need those be supernatural to be religious? 

Haven't watched 2001. But, for your first sentence: When did humans start "thinking and having consciousness"? And, when in the evolutionary timeline did Adam sin? Was he perfect, "good" before that? For your last comment, I don't understand it at all. Sorry.

 

Religion is:

 

: the belief in a god or in a group of gods

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

 

God is:

 

In religious belief, a deity (ⁱ/ˈdiː.ɨti/ or ⁱ/ˈdeɪ.ɨti/)^[1] is either a natural or supernatural being, who may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred. Some religions have one supreme deity, while others have multiple deities of various ranks. (Wikipedia)

 

So you can have a religion around a natural God. But, if God is natural, then his morals would not be absolute, but rather subjective to him. If his morals were absolute, then they would have to be based in the Universe itself, and not in him. Therefore, "his" absolute morals would just be expressions of the Universe's morals, making belief in him unwarranted and not needed for a good life.

 

 

 

Kinda something I was thinking of while I was painting walls today. Is morality alone it's proof of God's existence? Let's consider that the Big Bang occurred. Now we've got Earth and all that jazz, whoopdedoo. Now what? Lightning hits the pond of life, or something, and now we have creatures. Evolution happens. But how does man get morals, yet all the other animals he has evolved with don't, nor show signs of the coming of morals? It might suggest that humans were "awakened" at some point (Eden), and.... I dunno. Thoughts?

 

Why do you say that man has morals, like it is absolute fact? How do you know other animals don't have morals?

[Royal Bro-nee 36]

Now I understand a little bit. Thanks guys!

 

God Bless.

[Sudo Krenton 243]

Why do you say that man has morals, like it is absolute fact? How do you know other animals don't have morals?

 

Let's clear something up:

 

Morals: "a person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do."

 

I would argue that Animals have and can react to empathy, but not morals. Animals can be trained, and can learn "what is right and wrong," but do not understand to the level we do as to why they are wrong.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Sudo Krenton

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Haven't watched 2001. But, for your first sentence: When did humans start "thinking and having consciousness"?

 

I'm not a paleontologist or anthropologist so I can't say exactly when.

 

 

 

And, when in the evolutionary timeline did Adam sin?

 

Likewise to the above, an exact when is hard to find. The idea is though that at some point man cease to act on instinct and made a willful decision to commit what he then understood as being immoral, but did it anyway.

 

 

 

Was he perfect, "good" before that?

 

Yes and no. Man could not sin because man was innocent. A dog can kill a man but he can't commit murder. At the same time though, man could not strive for anything. What is the Garden of Eden but eternal stagnation with nothing to strive for? No consequence means no advancement, no temptation means no freedom. Man was "perfect and pure" the way any animal is. It was only when man gained the knowledge of good and evil that he could choose to become closer to God.

 

 

 

For your last comment, I don't understand it at all. Sorry.   Religion is:   : the belief in a god or in a group of gods : an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods   God is:   In religious belief, a deity (i/ˈdiː.ɨti/ or i/ˈdeɪ.ɨti/)[1] is either a natural or supernatural being, who may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred. Some religions have one supreme deity, while others have multiple deities of various ranks. (Wikipedia)   So you can have a religion around a natural God. But, if God is natural, then his morals would not be absolute, but rather subjective to him. If his morals were absolute, then they would have to be based in the Universe itself, and not in him. Therefore, "his" absolute morals would just be expressions of the Universe's morals, making belief in him unwarranted and not needed for a good life.

 

What I meant was, aren't some things that humans do divine? The creation of a baby through love, walking on the moon, giving the clothes off of one's back. Something can be achieved naturally but have supernatural origins or consequence. We can identify the chemistry of love in our brains but does that mean we can tell who is who's soul mate through genetic matching?

 

You can't touch God, you also can't touch love.

 

 

Why do you say that man has morals, like it is absolute fact? How do you know other animals don't have morals?

 

Agreed with Kento. Not that animals lack emotion or feelings like love, but they don't understand them.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Knight Hadron 372]

What I meant was, aren't some things that humans do divine? The creation of a baby through love, walking on the moon, giving the clothes off of one's back. Something can be achieved naturally but have supernatural origins or consequence.

You can't prove the existence of God because babies are made. Walking on the moon and having empathy does not mean that God is true.

 

As for the rest of the responses: I'm trying to multitask here so I can't really respond right now. Sorry.