Alicorn Physiology Discussion/Theories

[~Master~ Button Mash 2,307]

I think it's finally time that we condense all discussion about the physiology and morphology of alicorns into one thread, now that we have four of them, and they all appear to be unique in their own ways, which may effect their roles in the show. Post your theories in relation to the new canon we recieved today, and how it will effect the show down the line.

 

My personal theory is that Alicorns come in tiers.

God-tier - Celestia and Luna

Mortal-tier - Cadence and Twilight

 

The easiest way to differentiate their tears is their manes. As is clear, Celestia and Luna have what are almost aural manes, while Twilight and Cadence have manes of normal hair. This might just be for physical appeal, but I think it is an indication of an Alicorn's level of power. Cadence and Twi are obviously of a lower tier than Celestia and Luna, it seems.

 

All Alicorns appear to be a hybrid of Pegasus and Unicorn (and also likely the environmental magic of Earth ponies). However, I think the nature of Celestia and Luna might be different. They may be supernatural beings who take the form of Alicorns so to better associate with their subjects. Either that or the ruling ponies are made Alicorns so that they resemble their gods (Celestia and Luna), to reinforce their power.

 

That aside, let's get to the part with the biggest connotations of being an Alicorn: immortaility.

 

It is clear that Luna and Celestia are both either immortal, or have extremely long longevity. More than 1000 years that we know of. On the other hand, both Twilight and Cadence are young, and as of yet appear to age normally. 

 

What concerns me about them is that they both have people whom they love deeply. Cadence, her husband. Twilight, her friends. If they both have the lifespan of Tia and Luna, they will be forced to watch the mortals they love wither and die.

 

Now, the reason I believe that normal-maned Alicorns are not immortal is because Cadence has indeed chosen to marry a mortal. One would think that she would have been taught of her true nature growing up and too avoid such emotional bonds with mortals, because she would only be forced to lose them in the end. The same with Twilight.

 

On the other hand, if Celestia is responsible for the creation of Cadence the way she was responsible for the creation of Twilight, then maybe she chose to leave them mortal. After all, to make them immortal and let them have close relationships with mortals, just to make them die in the end is just cruel. 

 

Plus, it would explain why Celestia and Luna keep an arms-length relationship with their subjects. They don't want to give their hearts away just to watch the ponies they give them to die someday.

 

What are your theories?

Edited February 17, 2013 by AtomicBassCannon

[Dusty Soul 2,611]

My theory is that alicorns aren't immortal they just have really long lifespans, even longer then dragons.  The reason Celestia and Luna stay away from really close relationships with their subjects is because they learned the hard way that they live a long time.  There's also the theory that the mane 6 as a whole become immortal by wielding the elements thus explaining why Celestia can become closer with them.  Alicorns have the longest lifespan of anypony, but they are not immortal.

[Stalliongrad 982]

I think it's finally time that we condense all discussion about the physiology and morphology of alicorns into one thread, now that we have four of them, and they all appear to be unique in their own ways, which may effect their roles in the show. Post your theories in relation to the new canon we recieved today, and how it will effect the show down the line.

 

My personal theory is that Alicorns come in tiers.

God-tier - Celestia and Luna

Mortal-tier - Cadence and Twilight

 

The easiest way to differentiate their tears is their manes. As is clear, Celestia and Luna have what are almost aural manes, while Twilight and Cadence have manes of normal hair. This might just be for physical appeal, but I think it is an indication of an Alicorn's level of power. Cadence and Twi are obviously of a lower tier than Celestia and Luna, it seems.

 

All Alicorns appear to be a hybrid of Pegasus and Unicorn (and also likely the environmental magic of Earth ponies). However, I think the nature of Celestia and Luna might be different. They may be supernatural beings who take the form of Alicorns so to better associate with their subjects. Either that or the ruling ponies are made Alicorns so that they resemble their gods (Celestia and Luna), to reinforce their power.

 

That aside, let's get to the part with the biggest connotations of being an Alicorn: immortaility.

 

It is clear that Luna and Celestia are both either immortal, or have extremely long longevity. More than 1000 years that we know of. On the other hand, both Twilight and Cadence are young, and as of yet appear to age normally. 

 

What concerns me about them is that they both have people whom they love deeply. Cadence, her husband. Twilight, her friends. If they both have the lifespan of Tia and Luna, they will be forced to watch the mortals they love wither and die.

 

Now, the reason I believe that normal-maned Alicorns are not immortal is because Cadence has indeed chosen to marry a mortal. One would think that she would have been taught of her true nature growing up and too avoid such emotional bonds with mortals, because she would only be forced to lose them in the end. The same with Twilight.

 

On the other hand, if Celestia is responsible for the creation of Cadence the way she was responsible for the creation of Twilight, then maybe she chose to leave them mortal. After all, to make them immortal and let them have close relationships with mortals, just to make them die in the end is just cruel. 

 

Plus, it would explain why Celestia and Luna keep an arms-length relationship with their subjects. They don't want to give their hearts away just to watch the ponies they give them to die someday.

 

What are your theories?

 

I agree completely i think all of it should be put in one thread. I feel like I've been talking about this all day. You hit the nail on the head I think that Alicorns have two tiers as well. And honestly i think this discussion starts with Cadence. Because there is no denying that Celestia and Luna are immortal really. It comes down to does being an Alicorn automatically equate immortality. To me the answer is no. Cadence (as ive stressed many times today) was not orignally intended to be an Alicorn. Lauren Faust when developing the show only intended for Celestia and Luna to be the only Alicorns.  I don't like that people are quick to hate hasbro but this is clearly a marketing trick. Cadence was made into an alicorn at Hasbro's request too. We didn't know Cadence at all for it to really be an issue. They made Cadence an alicorn to profit on the Royal Canterlot Wedding sets.  I feel they are doing the same to Twilight. If Hasbro is going to direct the story to profit toy sales the quality of the show is going to drop. (but enough of that).

 

The show's staff say that being a princess is a title and position in Equestrian society that can be earned. If that is the case then that raises the question so are Alicorns born or do you have to earn the power to be one? Cadence complicates this because she is Celestia's niece. Being born into the Royal Family then would mean you get your title and you are an Alicorn. Cadence does not appear to be immortal nor do i think she is but it is obvious (with her magic protecting forcefield) that she is powerful. Celestia did not create Cadence like she did Twilight. However there is a large gap here. Cadence is Celestia's niece and Luna is not Cadence's mother. So this implies that Celestia and Luna have another sibling. (more than likely an alicorn)

 

Celestia's lifespan she must have certainly seen people come and go. I have always said that if it was Celestia who gave the land to the Apple family to start developing that land it would be interesting to have Princess Celestia and Granny Smith have interaction.

 

Bottom line Cadence and Twilight are alicorns but they are not immortal like Celestia and Luna are.

Edited February 17, 2013 by EQRoyalGuardSGT

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

I have it in my head that they also have the "earth pony strength". This is because Nightmare Moon breaks those stones in the second episode by stepping close to them.

 

And after last episode, the alicorns are made by the Elements of Harmony. But I don't know about Celestia, Luna and Cadance. I'd be betting that Luna and Celestia somehow made Equestria if not for the Hearth Warming Eve episode, or at least that they are deities, much like the ones in polytheistic mythology. Cadance can fit this too, as she is the Aphrodite of ponies XD

 

Now that I think of it, this episode reminded me of some "ascension" myths. Maybe Luna and Celestia are special entities and the transformation into alicorn happens because of some subconscious thing: alicorns are symbols of power, after all.

 

Then, Luna and Celestia are immortal. Cadance and Twilight may not be.

 

EDIT: I meant Equestria as in "planet". You know... Geocentric Model.

Edited February 17, 2013 by moonlightavenger

[Scootalove 10,689]

My theory is, Celestia and Luna can not have relationships with their subjects because Celestia and Luna are too busy with their royal duties. Cadence and Twilight are pretty much mortal alicorns, which is why alicorns are split into two categories. Either your a god-like alicorn like Celestia and Luna that have a huge amount of power which can last forever or, you could be born as just a mortal alicorn like Cadence and Twilight in-which you have a long lifespan but you can still get hurt.

 

Pretty much, Alicorn Physiology is explained as learning a lot about the roles of a Alicorn. What their abilities are, what breed they are, Immortal or Mortal, and what their backstory is. Alicorns are pretty much a race of Unicorns with a horn and wings.

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

 

The show's staff say that being a princess is a title and position in Equestrian society that can be earned. If that is the case then that raises the question so are Alicorns born or do you have to earn the power to be one? Cadence complicates this because she is Celestia's niece. Being born into the Royal Family then would mean you get your title and you are an Alicorn. Cadence does not appear to be immortal nor do i think she is but it is obvious (with her magic protecting forcefield) that she is powerful. Celestia did not create Cadence like she did Twilight. However there is a large gap here. Cadence is Celestia's niece and Luna is not Cadence's mother. So this implies that Celestia and Luna have another sibling. (more than likely an alicorn)

 

 

Cadance may have been prepared to be a princess. In the way that she was raised. Cadence may have been adopted too, like Blueblood (he sure doesn't deserve the title of prince, or perhaps becoming an alicorn). Just a theory. The way Celestia decided to release Discord, out of the blue, makes me think that she has absolute powers in Equestria. If she wants to adopt these ponies, she can and if anypony doesn't like... Tough. But I guess that because of the connotation of "being a princess" now, ponies just trust her to do what she deems necessary.

[Stalliongrad 982]

Cadance may have been prepared to be a princess. In the way that she was raised. Cadence may have been adopted too, like Blueblood (he sure doesn't deserve the title of prince, or perhaps becoming an alicorn). Just a theory. The way Celestia decided to release Discord, out of the blue, makes me think that she has absolute powers in Equestria. If she wants to adopt these ponies, she can and if anypony doesn't like... Tough. But I guess that because of the connotation of "being a princess" now, ponies just trust her to do what she deems necessary.

 

Very true actually. I mean we all knew that Celestia has been grooming Twilight for something for quite some time now but i never thought it would be this. And Cadence yes i think more it would have to do with how she was raised but not like "im going to find a unicorn with great raw power then groom her to be princess". I have always guessed that because no one is quite omnipotent like Discord is no one (even non ponies, aside from Chrysalis) are willing to question her rule. We need a better map of Equestria and what it really is then. For example, are Griffons willfully loyal subjects of the Princess? What about Zebras? Or do they exist outside of Equestria? I know there are places outside of Equestria but the real thing is does Celestia have influence in these places to? Being the demigod of all of earth? or just Equestria?

[~Vallo~ 409]

The thing that bugs me is the fact that Twilight will outlive her friends by a longshot if she stays an alicorn. It'll be sad if her friends die off and she still has a long road ahead of her. Over time, her friends will just become some ponies she used to know, and they'll be pushed to the back of her mind, and they'll eventually be forgotten.

 

Damn, I just scared myself.

[Harmonic Revelations 8,835]

I think Alicorns are not born, but created. Wherein a very powerful spell can turn any pony into a Alicorn. However, Celestia and Luna are goddesses, some members of the royal family are not god-tier yet still Alicorns. I surmise that they can become an Alicorn as a kind of royal family thing, Twilight has been part of the Royal Family since the wedding.

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

Very true actually. I mean we all knew that Celestia has been grooming Twilight for something for quite some time now but i never thought it would be this. And Cadence yes i think more it would have to do with how she was raised but not like "im going to find a unicorn with great raw power then groom her to be princess". I have always guessed that because no one is quite omnipotent like Discord is no one (even non ponies, aside from Chrysalis) are willing to question her rule. We need a better map of Equestria and what it really is then. For example, are Griffons willfully loyal subjects of the Princess? What about Zebras? Or do they exist outside of Equestria? I know there are places outside of Equestria but the real thing is does Celestia have influence in these places to? Being the demigod of all of earth? or just Equestria?

Before Hearth Warming Eve, I thought of Equestria as the planet. (probably flat, too). I figured it would be ludicrous to have multiple countries. Every time a pony, a zebra, a griffon or even a dragon looks at the sky, they see the sun or the moon and think of the Royal Pony Sisters.

 

But after Hearth Warming Eve, the Princesses not always ruled therefore, the existence of countries seems justified. The pegasi were clearly a militaristic society, smelling of Greek, to me. Well, it's not said in the show, and I blame soccer moms for this, but if they had soldiers, they had to fight something. Wild creatures and griffons: in mythology, griffons hate horses, if I remember correctly. So, i think that, as per season 3, Equestria has countries outside of Equestria (Saddle Arabia, the place where griffons live, the place where zebra live). Or at least there's a level of local governance that answers to Canterlot.

 

But seriously? I doubt that any country would dare give Equestrians any trouble after what happened with Nightmare Moon. Even if the planet is not flat (I think there's a globe somewhere in the show), Nightmare Moon made the people on the other side cook under a merciless sun. (Fanfic idea: did they blame Celestia?)

[NavelColt 22,881]

This thread appears to be discussing MLP:FiM in some way, shape or form. Thus, it has been sentenced to Show Discussion.

 

This is an automatically generated message, by the way.

[Stalliongrad 982]

Before Hearth Warming Eve, I thought of Equestria as the planet. (probably flat, too). I figured it would be ludicrous to have multiple countries. Every time a pony, a zebra, a griffon or even a dragon looks at the sky, they see the sun or the moon and think of the Royal Pony Sisters.

 

But after Hearth Warming Eve, the Princesses not always ruled therefore, the existence of countries seems justified. The pegasi were clearly a militaristic society, smelling of Greek, to me. Well, it's not said in the show, and I blame soccer moms for this, but if they had soldiers, they had to fight something. Wild creatures and griffons: in mythology, griffons hate horses, if I remember correctly. So, i think that, as per season 3, Equestria has countries outside of Equestria (Saddle Arabia, the place where griffons live, the place where zebra live). Or at least there's a level of local governance that answers to Canterlot.

 

But seriously? I doubt that any country would dare give Equestrians any trouble after what happened with Nightmare Moon. Even if the planet is not flat (I think there's a globe somewhere in the show), Nightmare Moon made the people on the other side cook under a merciless sun. (Fanfic idea: did they blame Celestia?)

 

Ahh now thats something i had never considered. Nightmare Moon making Equestria dark and another half of the world is burning in the sun thats very interesting.

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

Ahh now thats something i had never considered. Nightmare Moon making Equestria dark and another half of the world is burning in the sun thats very interesting.

Kkat brought that up in Fallout: Equestria. I can't remember the exact chapter, however. It's in the story arc of Canterlot.

(it makes me shudder yet...)

[Silverstream 51]

If talking on Alicorns, 
what might happen when they breed with a normal pony like a unicorn or peggy
or a earth pony?  So lets say  Armor and Cadance have a kid?   Will it be a alicorn?   Or born a normal unicorn maybe with a high
magic due to the mixed blood?

 

What if a Alicorn also mates with a Peggy?   Wings would be the must due to the both
parents having them but would they have magic?  
Would it be weaker then normal? 
Does the mix have a cap on their magic and maybe not do the magic unicorns
can do? 

 

Half the reason I’ve been think this is one my own OC’s
Moonrusher is a Alicorn mix,  her mom a
alicorn but her father was a Pegasus. 
Due to the mixing,  she has wings
and is a strong flyer  but has very weak
magic  to other unicorns or
alicorns.  Just kinda wondering how a
cross breeding might work out in truth.

 

[himanuts 165]

I agree on the God Tier and Mortal Tier divisions for the sisters, Cadence and Twilight.

 

But I still see it as there being three kinds of alicorns. Whatever the sisters may be, hybrids and those created by spell magic.  

 

The Crystal Empire seems to be mostly populated with Earth Ponies. Yet their royalty (before Sombra) seems to have been made up of atleast one alicorn if them recognizing Cadence as "the Crystal Princess" is anything to go by. For them to get such a reaction from her makes it seem like their royalty was composed of alicorns (or atleast one) at some point. And basically Cadence is most likely a decendant of that. Going back to the Earth Pony thing..who knows. Maybe Cadence's lineage is the product of the union of a God Tier Alicorn and an Earth pony. 

 

There's also Blueblood's heritage. Faust mentioned Blueblood was the decendant of a sibling of Luna and Celestia's mother. Maybe God Tier alicorns where a race at some point, similar to, as I've said before, LOTR elves. And they've crossed with other pony races at several points in time with some instances resulting in mortal alicorns. Union results like this could also explain Cadence's size. She seems fully grown, while Luna isn't.

[Radiance64 7,053]

I think Cadance was born an alicorn, since she had wings since she was younger, so she was always meant to be the princess of the Crystal Empire. I could be wrong though, but I believe it's the most likely explanation.

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

Just thought of something that adresses Luna and Celetia's abscense in Hearth Warming Eve. I think I saw this in a fanfiction, I guess.

 

Maybe Luna and Celestia were artificially created to wield the Elements of Harmony against Discord. Not my favorite hypothesis, but valid, I guess.

[Veylon 255]

Well, I suppose I'd better put my two cents in, now that Twilight's gone all alicorn on us.

 

Natural alicorns - like Cadance - are mutants and were treated as some sort of special pony because of they're uniqueness. Still, they are regular ponies in all other respects.

 

My view was that Celestia and Luna were some kind of golems intended to embody the spells of raising the sun and moon. Machinery to do the work so that dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of unicorns wouldn't have to. And they were made as Alicorns because of the aforementioned specialness associated with alicorn-ness. Long story short, civilization collapsed and eventually the two came down from the skies, took out Discord, and started picking up the pieces.

 

In which case Twilight's ascension leaves a big plot hole in the middle of my cherished headcanon. She's not natural. She's not created. It isn't - or shouldn't be - a simple shapeshifting spell. She's clearly meant to have become a higher form of being. Which is exactly the part I'm least happy about.

 

I guess I could go with a theory whereby the Elements could be used to regenerate a missing (read dead) Alicorn temporarily by a pony taking it's place. As though there are X different slots or spheres that alicorns are "for". Naturally, this kind of power shouldn't just be ladled out to anypony; the Elements would have accede to this. Which is why Starswirl was banging his head on a brick wall way back when. He could feel that somewhere in the mists of magic such a spell had to exist, but couldn't quite make it happen. But Twilight (& co.; for the purposes of ascension, theoretically of them might have managed this) had a solid link to the Elements and was judge worthy by whatever method they judge worthiness and became the Alicorn of X.

 

By the headcanon I'm going with here, there are only two Alicorns "of" anything. Celestia embodies the spell for the raising of the sun and Luna that of the moon. Well, I'm also going with some sort of dream guardian Alicorn that is the origin of Nightmare and was partially subsumed into Luna. But anyway. I'm imagining that aforesaid ancient civilization wouldn't have Alicorns for frivolous stuff; it was all serious business back then. I can see an Alicorn tasked with guarding the Elements of Harmony and their Bearers. Those things are terribly important and keeping them both safe and accessible would be vital as well as a headache. The perfect sort of job to hand off to a nigh-indestructable dedicated demigod.

[~Master~ Button Mash 2,307]

Gonna add a bit more.

 

One thing I'm hearing is that Celestia and Luna are entwined with the Sun and Moon, and they will last as long as those celestial bodies exist.

 

If that is the case, similar logic can be applied to Cadence and Twilight. 

 

Cadence will live as long as love exists. This can either mean: Shining Armor is immortal with her, or that Cadence is mortal and will live as long as Shining Armor. After all, loving Shining Armor is a part of her destiny...it is a part of her, and he is part of her destiny.

 

Similarly, Twlight's friends are just as much a part of her destiny as she is. If she is the princess of friendship, then they will either live forever with her, or she will be mortal like them.

 

If it is the former, then I guess it's a "happily ever after" situation. Kinda cliche, but easier to handle in my mind than the thought of our Alicorn characters having to watch everypony they love wither and die. If it is the latter, then at the end of both Cadence and Twilight's lives, they will have to "pass the torch" to the next generation of the bearers of Love and the Elements of Harmony. If that's the case, then it provides a lot of opportunities for powerful storytelling.

 

Personally, I really hope Twilight isn't immortal. My heart has been torn to pieces enough by fan art of her weeping over her friend's graves while uttering the word "why?". The last thing I want is for that to be cannon. I can handle the wings, but please not immortality.

Edited February 17, 2013 by AtomicBassCannon

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

I don't think that Twilight being immortal or not is even an issue to the producers. They are just not going to mention it. 

 

I mean, for us, who like to extrapolate on the stuff we see on the show, it's a valid concern. But, considering that beyond Luna and Celestia, Cadance was the only alicorn we knew of. If they were immortal, there should be more of them around, IMO.

[Azure Flames 303]

my thoughts on alicorns

first to bring in some refernce and stuffs ive noticed

at 0:43-0:44 it said luna was a unicorn not a alicorn 

 

from that i conclude that Celestia and Luna were not alicorn at first just like twilight 

after nightmare moon was defeated we saw that luna hair didnt have an aura like here sister 

that got me to thinking that maybe she didnt get her power of controlling the night bak yet and that y she looks different in season 2

Cadence on the other hand was born a alicorn and i agree that she is the mortal type

so my total conclusion on this is that twi will become a god type but not just yet. 

pleace dont hate me TT__TT i'm dont like princess twi either but it's over and done with and i noticed this b4 the final ep of s3 and had get it off my chest and put this out here and not keep it to myself 

Edited February 18, 2013 by AzureFlames

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

my thoughts on alicorns

first to bring in some refernce and stuffs ive noticed

at 0:43-0:44 it said luna was a unicorn not a alicorn 

 

from that i conclude that Celestia and Luna were not alicorn at first just like twilight 

after nightmare moon was defeated we saw that luna hair didnt have an aura like here sister 

that got me to thinking that maybe she didnt get her power of controlling the night bak yet and that y she looks different in season 2

Cadence on the other hand was born a alicorn and i agree that she is the mortal type

so my total conclusion on this is that twi will become a god type but not just yet. 

pleace dont hate me TT__TT i'm dont like princess twi either but it's over and done with and i noticed this b4 the final ep of s3 and had get it off my chest and put this out here and not keep it to myself 

The show only started using the term "alicorn" with the Magic Duel. We can clearly see in the sequence that even if the name is different, they were supposed to be the alicorns (as we called them).

 

I remember seeing on Ms. Faust Deviant Art page that Luna's mane was like that because she had lost her magic, or something of the sort, so you're right. Makes me think that Celestia had to move the moon around for Luna, as she regained her strength.

 

It's up to the producers now... Maybe Twilight and Cadance will get starry manes too. But until then, I'm sticking to my theory that Celestia and Luna are different. XD Anyway... Whatever the producers do is fine. As long as they don't kill Celestia or something.

 

And I don't hate you.

 

EDIT: By the way... This intro scene and the story between Celestia and Luna is one of the things that got me hooked on the show.

Edited February 18, 2013 by moonlightavenger