Is Sunset Shimmer the Worst Major Villain?

[tlcbonaparte 15]

You're trying to back up your weak explanation with some random phrase.

For all that i've and others have seen Sunset Plan is full of holes, so it would be nice if they show that she can do what she is saying.

 

They are only random phrases to you because you refuse to think about what they mean. But I guess that's perfectly reasonable for someone who wants evil plot explained in detail and with possible power point presentation.

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

They are only random phrases to you because you refuse to think about what they mean. But I guess that's perfectly reasonable for someone who wants evil plot explained in detail and with possible power point presentation.

 

I thought about what you have stated more than you're mind could imagine, why do you think that i've chosen this name? Just because it sounds cool? And i try to go even further with the thought of the beyond.

But im not here to talk about interesting fears, just like EQG isn't something that focus on filosophy (that would made it better).

The concept of "Nothing is scarier" is not a new thing to me, cause i love read the Tvtropes page about nightmare fuel, but i don't see why should be scary don't know the details of Sunset Plan.

Her plan was to use the army of kids to take over Equestria, she didn't even included her powers and the crown. An army that is gonna face both Celestia AND Luna, the crystal heart, Discord, and an army of ponies who had experience on their skills unlike her army will have. And let's not forget that the portal was going to close and the zombie didn't look like speed is their major abilities. And then there is the fact that going trough the portal in the original world of the elements would make her weapon useless and, maybe, even turn her back to her normal pony self.

Counting what i've seen, is not fear of the nothing, but nothing to fear, really.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

I thought about what you have stated more than you're mind could imagine, why do you think that i've chosen this name? Just because it sounds cool? And i try to go even further with the thought of the beyond.

But im not here to talk about interesting fears, just like EQG isn't something that focus on filosophy (that would made it better).

The concept of "Nothing is scarier" is not a new thing to me, cause i love read the Tvtropes page about nightmare fuel, but i don't see why should be scary don't know the details of Sunset Plan.

Her plan was to use the army of kids to take over Equestria, she didn't even included her powers and the crown. An army that is gonna face both Celestia AND Luna, the crystal heart, Discord, and an army of ponies who had experience on their skills unlike her army will have. And let's not forget that the portal was going to close and the zombie didn't look like speed is their major abilities. And then there is the fact that going trough the portal in the original world of the elements would make her weapon useless and, maybe, even turn her back to her normal pony self.

Counting what i've seen, is not fear of the nothing, but nothing to fear, really.

 

Yes, after you know her plan you think it's ridiculous, but what about BEFORE you knew her plan. Since you know what's scary, it's not a huge leap between the nature of fear and the reason why SS's plan was not explained in detail.

 

If you knew her plan all along, then the movie would be far worse partly because her evil plot sucks, but that's no reason to fault the delivery of her plot. People were genuinely worried about what SS was going to do to Twilight prior to the big reveal near the end and rightfully so. That's why you were kept in the dark for the majority of the movie, and I believe it's much better than laying it out in the open.

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

So you're saying that instead to explain why her plan should work and give a good reason to fear that she will succed they are doing the exact opposite, leaving tons of reasons of why her plan WILL FAIL just because of the other reason that any non-biased people a perfect could think about it.

I see that we two had different ideas about things works.

 

I've tried to edit this post, but i didn't succed, so i quoted myself and let's hope it works. Im sorry for this answer and i hope that in the future i will not commit the same mistake.

Yes, after you know her plan you think it's ridiculous, but what about BEFORE you knew her plan. Since you know what's scary, it's not a huge leap between the nature of fear and the reason why SS's plan was not explained in detail.

 

If you knew her plan all along, then the movie would be far worse partly because her evil plot sucks, but that's no reason to fault the delivery of her plot. People were genuinely worried about what SS was going to do to Twilight prior to the big reveal near the end and rightfully so. That's why you were kept in the dark for the majority of the movie, and I believe it's much better than laying it out in the open.

 

Actually im not, i was actually hoping for her to do some REALLY NASTY trick, like changing the votes, or turn off all the lights and steal the crown. Or heck, even threat to kill Spike. That would have at least show her to show her intelligence

And even if i had any kind of tension, once that her plan is revealed, i would have been kinda of disappointed.

[tlcbonaparte 15]

I've tried to edit this post, but i didn't succed, so i quoted myself and let's hope it works. Im sorry for this answer and i hope that in the future i will not commit the same mistake.

 

Actually im not, i was actually hoping for her to do some REALLY NASTY trick, like changing the votes, or turn off all the lights and steal the crown. Or heck, even threat to kill Spike. That would have at least show her to show her intelligence

And even if i had any kind of tension, once that her plan is revealed, i would have been kinda of disappointed.

 

Exactly, you were excited about what she would do. That's why I said it's actually a good thing she didn't lay out her plan in right away. This type of delivery works better for actual great evil plots but it's still useful in holding audiences in suspend before the really bad reveal. I understand you feel SS is the worst villain in the series, while I think Sombra is even worse, but I think you should give her credit where it's due. SS obviously has a lot of flaws but keeping her plans in the dark is simply not one of them.

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

Exactly, you were excited about what she would do. That's why I said it's actually a good thing she didn't lay out her plan in right away. This type of delivery works better for actual great evil plots but it's still useful in holding audiences in suspend before the really bad reveal. I understand you feel SS is the worst villain in the series, while I think Sombra is even worse, but I think you should give her credit where it's due. SS obviously has a lot of flaws but keeping her plans in the dark is simply not one of them.

 

Excited isn't the right word. I was pleading for her to do something smart, as her character is supposed to be. And in the end she didn't do it at all.

What she has done like sending a box of a Playstation 4 and once that i've open it i find inside a Xbox One.

She bring up my hopes just to crush it again, hard, on the ground.

[Mywas 687]

Also, can I add one of the main reasons Sunset is worst villain?

Because, Villains are......SUPPOST TO CAUSE CONFLICT.

Discord, NMM, Chrysalis, Sombra all caused more conflict in 44 min than what Sunset did in a movie.

And most of the conflict she caused was filled with flaws, she was marehandled by twilight for a moment when she tried to steal the crown which made it seem pathetic, she tried to accuse Twilight of something(actually, It was Snips and Snails) and it was a weak small conflict that was defeated by FLASH SENTRY, a teenage guy with nothing intresting about him, and then she got hold of Spike and a hammer but the hammer would not do anything to the portal and she herself saw that hurting spike was too cruel, WTF?! And her teenage army was pathetic and her plan was stupid and she did not even put up a fight.

So overall she failes to cause a conflict, which is the most important trait for a villain.

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

Also, can I add one of the main reasons Sunset is worst villain?

Because, Villains are......SUPPOST TO CAUSE CONFLICT.

Discord, NMM, Chrysalis, Sombra all caused more conflict in 44 min than what Sunset did in a movie.

And most of the conflict she caused was filled with flaws, she was marehandled by twilight for a moment when she tried to steal the crown which made it seem pathetic, she tried to accuse Twilight of something(actually, It was Snips and Snails) and it was a weak small conflict that was defeated by FLASH SENTRY, a teenage guy with nothing intresting about him, and then she got hold of Spike and a hammer but the hammer would not do anything to the portal and she herself saw that hurting spike was too cruel, WTF?! And her teenage army was pathetic and her plan was stupid and she did not even put up a fight.

So overall she failes to cause a conflict, which is the most important trait for a villain.

 

I agree with all, minus the last part about not put in up a fight. That is one of the flaw of all the villains of the series, unless you count the fight between the Mane 6 and the army of Chrysalis.

But still it isn't the enough to forgive all the lameness of Sunset.

[Aisling Ink 195]

Not the worst, and no, I'm not a "amg Sombra needs to be better yush he like sucks he dont say anything and maaaaah I dont have enough imagination to create a personal theory/backstory for him WAAAH" kind of fan, honestly, Sombra is my favorite character. Yes,Sombra is my favorite and I regret nothing. Sombra is actually the most underrated character, he needs more attention due the fact that he is kind of the only evil villain. I mean Chrysalis just wanted to feed her subjects and herself, Discord was just laugh and fun, Nightmare Moon was just because of Luna's jealously but Sombra...he just wanted to torture ponies for fun and whatnot. And Sunset isn't really a main villain,on the movie yes but not otherwise. Basically 'The main 4' (remind me of the Main 4 of the thrash metal imao.) are Nightmare Moon,Discord,Chrysalis and Sombra, where Nightmare and Discord turned good. 

And again, Sombra doesn't suck, he just need more development and attention. He is just underrated,that's all. And for the 'Sombra talk..oh wait he doesn't' thing, I guess is more logical to put your plan in action that to tell your opponents what you want to do and whatnot.

 

 

I liked Sombra but exactly because he wasn't developed is, in my opinion, the worst villain. Yes, perhaps worse than Sunset Shimmer. 

 

One thing is to keep a character mysterious another one is to do not give him enough space in the whole plot. You almost don't even wonder about Sombra because of the little time they have given him. 

 

A pity if you ask me.

[Mywas 687]

I liked Sombra but exactly because he wasn't developed is, in my opinion, the worst villain. Yes, perhaps worse than Sunset Shimmer. 

 

One thing is to keep a character mysterious another one is to do not give him enough space in the whole plot. You almost don't even wonder about Sombra because of the little time they have given him. 

 

A pity if you ask me.

Well then, I guess That king from courage the cowardly dog is worst villain aswell because his only devolopment is wanting a stone and his song

[Aisling Ink 195]

Well then, I guess That king from courage the cowardly dog is worst villain aswell because his only devolopment is wanting a stone and his song

 

 

Sadly I have never heard of that before but the point is that it depends on what we expect from the character.

 

You can't deny that King Sombra deserved a better development, be it in a mysterious way or any other way, They simply didn't give him enough space other than let you figure out he was the main villain.

 

But this is simply my opinion on the matter.

[Mywas 687]

Sadly I have never heard of that before but the point is that it depends on what we expect from the character.

 

You can't deny that King Sombra deserved a better development, be it in a mysterious way or any other way, They simply didn't give him enough space other than let you figure out he was the main villain.

 

But this is simply my opinion on the matter.

You only have one flawin that logic, he was not the main focus in the episode, twilight was, so we can't saw that he is not a good villain for not having as much as character devolopment as te others, because he was not the main focus of his episode unlike the others, we shoukd take in that fact into the table, I don't think the other villains would been as devoloped if Twilight was the main focus not them.

So if we should rate the villains, we should rate them on how they did there roles, not what there roles were.

[Aisling Ink 195]

You only have one flawin that logic, he was not the main focus in the episode, twilight was, so we can't saw that he is not a good villain for not having as much as character devolopment as te others, because he was not the main focus of his episode unlike the others, we shoukd take in that fact into the table, I don't think the other villains would been as devoloped if Twilight was the main focus not them.

So if we should rate the villains, we should rate them on how they did there roles, not what there roles were.

 

Well Twilight is the main focus in all those episodes, Discord, Nightmare Moon or even Chrysalis did steal the spotlight long enough from her in order to make the villain stand out just enough (and in some episodes a little more) than the main character but never too much.

 

I guess, in the end, we simply have different ideas on the matter.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Aisling Ink

[Mywas 687]

Well Twilight is the main focus in all those episodes, Discord, Nightmare Moon or even Chrysalis did steal the spotlight long enough from her in order to make the villain stand out just enough (and in some episodes a little more) than the main character but never too much.

 

I guess, in the end, we simply have different ideas on the matter.

Theres a big difference though, Discord and Chrysalis were there all along and NMM had a background. Sombra however was given the role of a looming threat who stays in the shadows until the end, and he had Traps to make up for his lack of activeness.

 

Well perhabs we have different views on what a villain should be afterall. I personaly believe that a good villain is a one that causes good conflict, and that stuff like personality or Background is just a bonus.

[Aisling Ink 195]

Theres a big difference though, Discord and Chrysalis were there all along and NMM had a background. Sombra however was given the role of a looming threat who stays in the shadows until the end, and he had Traps to make up for his lack of activeness.

 

Well perhabs we have different views on what a villain should be afterall. I personaly believe that a good villain is a one that causes good conflict, and that stuff like personality or Background is just a bonus.

 

Also, to support even more the ideas I wrote in this topic, I believe I did vote yes in the poll.

 

Long live to coherence! xD

 

Oh well...

[Mywas 687]

Also, to support even more the ideas I wrote in this topic, I believe I did vote yes in the poll.

 

Long live to coherence! xD

 

Oh well...

I just realized that Sombra has been more discussed in this thread than sunset herself.

So let me just compare Sunset to Someone that has the same concept as her, but was better:

Yes I do realize that this guy was a reccuring villain and its unfair to compare sunset to him, but let us face it, this guy defeated his old mentor, actually he killed him, a fight scene between celestia and Sunset at the start of the movie even if its was just Celestia atacking Sunset and sunset finding a way out would been nice.

[Aisling Ink 195]

Yes I do realize that this guy was a reccuring villain and its unfair to compare sunset to him, but let us face it, this guy defeated his old mentor, actually he killed him, a fight scene between celestia and Sunset at the start of the movie even if its was just Celestia atacking Sunset and sunset finding a way out would been nice.

 

Gotta agree there, it would have been nice if Celestia and Sunset had some sort of contact instead of doing so through Twilight.

[Mywas 687]

Gotta agree there, it would have been nice if Celestia and Sunset had some sort of contact instead of doing so through Twilight.

Not to mention that Turning her into a demon took away one thing that made her different than the others, being normal with mortal powers, I wish she stayed a human and had some kind of a fight scene with Twilight(no punching but a pure magic battle). Chrysalis and Sombra had a fight scene, so why din't Sunset have one?

[Castle Bleck 19,334]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.

[EpicPwny 33]

I feel like the writers gave up as soon as Sunset Shimmer got the crown; she turned into a demon, made everyone glowy eyed and almost suddenly, the Mane Six have defeated her... x_x

[Zekromic 1,054]

I don't think she was the worst villains, but she was pretty underdeveloped. I think the movie should have been a spinoff miniseries like Star Wars The Clone Wars, and not a 120 min movie which had to waste a lot of potential it had, since not only Sunny was a wasted potential 

[Mywas 687]

I don't think she was the worst villains, but she was pretty underdeveloped. I think the movie should have been a spinoff miniseries like Star Wars The Clone Wars, and not a 120 min movie which had to waste a lot of potential it had, since not only Sunny was a wasted potential

 

Actually, had the writers choose to devolop her or flash sentry in the filler that they had left they wouldn't look as shallow as they were. But the main problem is that the writers choose to put in Fandom shoutouts instead. I main the whole damn movie was already rushed enough so why add in useless fandom nods?

[Luximus 482]

At first, I thought Sombra and SS were at an impass, until I watched EQG again (yes, I watched it again) and I found out that the writing WAS terrible, even if the characters looked cute. I mean, I agree with you on this one. SS was the worst for all of those reasons, but also, she's an almost equally powerful unicorn...that's kind of cliche for Hasbro. I mean, I know Sombra was bad because he bearly had enough screen time, but a LOT less time than GAK came on the screen...but seriously. If you're gonna make a villian who lives in a different world and wants to take over Equestria because she's already ruled the school and NOT HER OWN ENTIRE WORLD, at least make it something that's worth watching. Although, she did have a few positive things about her. And when I say a few, I mean only 1. I like the fact that she sticks to her goal in becoming ruler against a princess, that takes guts for a character like her...but then again, she did plan things stupidly.

[Grumpy Enchantress 586]

No, Sombra was way worse. He wasn't interesting, scary, cool, or even threatening. He hardly even used him and he never really did anything. He was just boring in terrible.  Even though Sunset Shimmer also sucked, at least she was hot. 

[Castle Bleck 19,334]

(EDIT: Please ignore this.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by A.V.