Is Sunset Shimmer the Worst Major Villain?

[Guest]

@, 

Minor nitpick, Sunset Shimmer is stronger than Discord in her demon form, it wasn't a hole in her plan. 

 

Chrysalis's excuse falls apart when you realize she left someone to starve, killed a kitten for the sake of a demo, and taunted twilight for no reason than to fuel her ego

 

Errr... Where is it established that she's stronger than Discord? The two never fight or have any scale of power created between them. Do you perhaps have a reference to verify this?

 

Secondly, she is a queen man. She has an entire race to feed. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, and there is no doubt in my mind that the reason she "taunted" anyone is because her kind has more than likely been ridiculed, and kicked out of Equestria for no good reason simply beyond being "creepy bug ponies". I am sure if you were in her position you'd feel a little bit prone to bragging when the shoe was finally on the other foot after years and years of oppression. I mean the comics show where the changelings live... It's a dump. To quote Cloud from FF7:

 

"People don't usually live in the slums by choice."

 

Is it their fault they are born how they are? That's like saying you deserve to be pushed to another country simply because I disagree with one of your body's functions that you do not control.

[Hive King 2,001]

@, 

When Discord is hit with the Elements, everything he's corrupted, if not alive, is taken back to normal as well. When Sunset is hit with the Elements, what she had corrupted required a shot of its own. 

 

Why did she leave Cadence to starve? If she wanted her out of the way, she could have just killed her instead of leaving her to die painfully. How about killing a kitten just for the sake of it? Also, remember one of her lines?

 

"Every pony I'll soon control, every stallion, mare, and foal" sounds more like a power hungry beast than a desperate feeder

[Guest]

@, 

When Discord is hit with the Elements, everything he's corrupted, if not alive, is taken back to normal as well. When Sunset is hit with the Elements, what she had corrupted required a shot of its own. 

 

Why did she leave Cadence to starve? If she wanted her out of the way, she could have just killed her instead of leaving her to die painfully. How about killing a kitten just for the sake of it? Also, remember one of her lines?

 

"Every pony I'll soon control, every stallion, mare, and foal" sounds more like a power hungry beast than a desperate feeder

 

Well that's because remember: the elements weren't there. The humans that were the counterpart of the elements were, but who is to say that they are as powerful as the original elements, especially without the physical jewels. That doesn't necessarily mean Discord is less powerful.

 

And of course she is power hungry. She more than likely was persecuted and discriminated against for centuries simply for her race. Would you not want to get your piece of the pie then? That doesn't mean she wasn't trying to feed her face as well, just that she wanted a bit of revenge to go with it. Kill two birds with one stone. Revenge doesn't make her evil, just misguided and definitely super pissed off.

[Hive King 2,001]

@, 

Revenge? If she wanted revenge, why not just kill Cadence instead of leaving her to suffer a horrible death of starvation? And the kitten that she killed? It had done nothing to her yet she killed it just for to scare the CMC. Chrysalis also mind-raped ponies constantly

[Astral_Shadow 1]

no discord and sombra are!

[Hive King 2,001]

@, 

While I disagree with you about Sombra, YES, ANOTHER DISCORD HATER!   They are so rare to come by

[Guest]

@, 

Revenge? If she wanted revenge, why not just kill Cadence instead of leaving her to suffer a horrible death of starvation? And the kitten that she killed? It had done nothing to her yet she killed it just for to scare the CMC. Chrysalis also mind-raped ponies constantly

 

Her race was starving as well. Perhaps a little irony on their foes?

 

As for the kitten, really considering her situation I am pretty sure she had much more things on her mind than the life of a kitten. If anything she wanted to make a point to her foes so they knew she was serious. After all, she wanted the CMC scared so that when she showed the mane six they would be afraid. She wanted them off of their A game because she's kind of  trying to execute her plan.

 

And "mind-raping" as you put it kind of becomes necessary for part of her plan. Were her actions "wrong"? Yes. Does that make her inherently evil? No. To assume she is a troubled leader trying to feed her populace through any means necessary is not only a more plausible explanation, but a better one than just "she's evil because she's evil."

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

She killed a kitten for little reason. There's no way to justify this. The Changelings as a whole are not evil, but Chrysalis was a monstrous sadist. Feeding your populace has nothing to do with killing kittens and leaving people to starve as cruel irony 

[Guest]

@,

She killed a kitten for little reason. There's no way to justify this. The Changelings as a whole are not evil, but Chrysalis was a monstrous sadist. Feeding your populace has nothing to do with killing kittens and leaving people to starve as cruel irony 

What are you talking about? It absolutely does!

 

You have to consider her perspective: She not only wants to feed her population, she wants a better life for them. She wants to give them the kingdom that Equestria has. To do that, she has to overthrow their leaders, and the only way she will do that is by striking fear into their hearts and getting them to submit to her. It's a matter of "necessary evil" to get the goods for everyone. I am certain that changelings did not throw the first stone, considering ponies freak out about zebras and act quite racist towards them.

 

If you want to give your people a whole kingdom by taking it by force, you aren't going to do that unless you demonstrate your power and authority. Kill helpless kittens and leave their princesses to starve in a dungeon. I'd say that is a pretty good way to show that you are not to be messed with.

 

I digress though, this topic is about Sunset.

[Castle Bleck 19,377]

@Evil Dragon Master,

 

You're basing Discord's and Sunset's levels of power on... how long it took to clean up after each of them?

 

Um... listen:

 

Imagine one day, Superman lands Lex Luthor in a hospital, and Batman lands The Joker in another hospital (The no-kill rules are obviously in effect, so hospitals it is.). But wait... Lex ultimately recovers before Mr. J! Does this mean Bats is now stronger than Supes?

[Hive King 2,001]

@, 

Your analogy is flawed, I'm saying more to the lines of if Superman fired a full power Heat Vision at Doomsday, he'd probably survive. Lex would be ash

@,

She could just kill Cadence instead of leaving her to die painfully. If she wants to make a point, kill a soldier or some actual combatant, murdering kittens and civilians for terror tactics are outlawed for a reason 

[Guest]

Killing her does not adequately show how ruthless she is in her tactics. Plus it's a kids show so they couldn't have her killed.

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

Bullcrap, starving beloved rulers to death will make people hate you, not fear you. Chrysalis crossed the threshold from fearing into hating when she did that. 

 

The kid's show excuse doesn't fly, we have to ignore that attribute so we can have a proper debate, otherwise I could say "Celestia only lost because the plot said so"

[GenderIsAnIllusion 2,177]

Meh, she's less of a villain and more of the token total badass bitch.... She's fits that role quite nicely XD

Killing her does not adequately show how ruthless she is in her tactics. Plus it's a kids show so they couldn't have her killed.

Did you see what they did to Sobra?.... He exploded in a flash of light after being shot with an energy cannon consisting of a crystal and the concentrated magical love of thousands of crystal ponies...... I don't think he's still alive bro.....

[Guest]

@,

Bullcrap, starving beloved rulers to death will make people hate you, not fear you. Chrysalis crossed the threshold from fearing into hating when she did that. 

 

The kid's show excuse doesn't fly, we have to ignore that attribute so we can have a proper debate, otherwise I could say "Celestia only lost because the plot said so"

Well no, if we're talking about why she didn't kill her instead of imprison her, that is kind of reason: ratings wouldn't allow it. You can't just say "we can't say that" because it is central to the argument. We don't know what the original intent of the writers would have been with the kids show restriction removed.

 

Also from a standpoint of Chrysalis: keeping Cadance alive could serve as bargaining power for later to get what she wanted.

 

Plus IDK how they got away with it with Sombra, but technically he was more or less just a bunch of gas that turned into a unicorn for a split second, so he was kind of just energy.

 

Also as I said: this is getting more off topic.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Guest

[Hive King 2,001]

@, 

She wanted Twilight to kill Cadence and was taunting her to do this. The only people who might like Chrysalis are the changelings but even then she has failed miserably and probably made their food problem worse

[Guest]

Consider it from her standpoint:

 

Her people have been persecuted for probably centuries. They wanted to see ponies suffer, and she like them found it hard to resist such temptation. That doesn't mean that she is inherently evil, or that she does not have a good cause at heart. She still at the core of her doings is trying to feed her empire and you can't deny that. She is not pure evil, and although she may be engaging in activity that is wrong, it doesn't make her evil because she more than likely is doing so out of generations of wrong doing done to her. Does it make it right? No, but can you honestly blame her for wanting ponies to get a taste of their own medicine?

[Hive King 2,001]

@, 

Changelings being persecuted is a headcanon, you have no clue if this is true as there is no evidence either way. The ponies haven't invaded their kingdom and kidnapped their ruler.

 

At the core of her doings, I saw a power hungry beast who took advantage of her people's hunger. Also, where is this evidence that Changelings are starving? This is never stated

[Guest]

Not necessarily. I mean they wouldn't just invade Equestria "just because". They have to have some kind of motivation. The obvious reasons would be hunger, anger that ponies hold a lot of wealth which they do not, or possibly some kind of age old dispute. Whichever the case, to assume they are evil just because they are evil is kind of just silly. They have to have SOME reason for doing what they do, and that being said, given the circumstances we can not safely assume that ponies are 100% innocent.

 

Also the comics make it quite evident that they do not live in amazing conditions, and she wishes to be in power so that she will have the power to provide her people food. The two are connected.

 

Once again though: we are getting off topic of Sunset, we should really make another topic to discuss this, because we're kind of derailing.

[Hive King 2,001]

@, 

Okay, you make the topic then. 

[Darker 1,351]

Seriously? The worst one? Your points are valid, but, have you seen Nightmare Moon? Or King Sombra?

 

True, her army of teenager zombies was pathetic, although she probably didn't know about Discord being reformed. In all case, she was the most threatening villain FiM had, until Tirek came in the S4 finale, of course.

 

Still, in comparison, at least she had a legit reformation and good reasons, you could felt legitly sorry for her, after all, she wanted something that Twilight helped her to learn, and Sunset gave good points afterwards her defeat.

 

True, she still didn't do too much, but hey, it was Equestria Girls, what do you expect from the movie.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,162]

Honestly, I really don't think any of the villains were pathetic; and that includes Sunset Shimmer (and this coming from a Sombra fanboy, haha). 

 

While her motivation wasn't her best trait; I just felt the overall character was fairly fun. Not the best of course, but good enough.

[Banul 3,831]

I was kind of lukewarm about Sunset. After reading the EQG comic and seeing some of the Rainbow Rocks clips, shes starting to grow on me. Though I suppose shes not a villain anymore.

[TechnicolorBrony 5]

I would have to say she was a major threat. First of all, she had the abundant power of the mother-stone (Element of magic) and also imaging the dangerous technology she could have brought through the portal eg. Guns, Explosives and so on. If she succeeded, Equstria wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

[ShadowPirateX 600]

Not the worst, but definently one of the worst. She's only slightly better than the Plunder Seeds. At least she has a personality, albet a very cliché one.