Making a comic - feedback needed :3

[Guest]

I have enough tips to make a start, thank you all for that, but now I need some honest feedback on the concept art I've been drawing, scroll down to my later posts to see them, thanks very much!

 

Hello ponies!

 

The Brony community has been such a huge help to me in the past I'm now making it my first port of call for all matters artistic

 

So I've been re-reading Scott Pilgrim and it's really inspiring to see such simplistic art carry such a potent story and it gives me hope in my own abilities.

 

I'd like to try my hand at a mini semi-autobiographical comic and was hoping somepony here would be more experienced than I and could share some tips. In a nutshell it's going to be a short story about myself, a coffee shop, a cute girl and my habit of drawing ponies in public.

 

So what I wanna know is:

 

What program/s should I use?

What's a good resolution or ratio?

Any tips on panel layout or rules of thumb I can follow?

Any books you can recommend?

Anything else I should be asking but am too much of a noob to think of?

 

Also, if anyone would like to collaborate with me on this I'd be delighted to work together with another artist to make something fantastic.

 

I shall be working on some concept art for the characters and will post them here for all to see/critique.

 

Much love to you all x

Edited November 3, 2013 by Dilarus

[Orablanco Account 3,707]

I think 300 dpi sounds about good, and the ratio is whatever you feel is best. I've seen them range from 900 x 500 to 2500 x 1000.

 

Good rule of thumb to remember is that brevity is the soul of wit. Condense whatever you can; if it can be said or communicated in one panel as opposed to three, do so.

[Unikitty 1,212]

Firstly, planning. Planning your comic ahead of time can be crucial. In most cases, having a fleshed out story or series of events and characters is important to your comic's health. The art may be what people see, but it's the story they're reading, and the story that will stick most in their mind.

 

Always have your resolution at a 300ppi minimum. Sure, web resolution by default is 72ppi, but having your work print resolution appropriate is a great way to plan ahead, should you need it.

As for artwork size; always make the original larger than the published size. Not only does this give you more space to work in, but it allows you more freedom when changing the final dimensions and tidying up the image before publishing. It also allows you to work  on the finer details of your work, without losing image quality due to lack of pixel space.

 

Make sure your desired art style and included elements(text types, themes, etc) are consistent. If you cannot do a certain style very well, focus on a style that you can do well. This does not always apply to all comics and types thereof. For instance; with webcomic series, I feel that the opposite should be done. Webcomics are generally quite long, and as such, are more affected by artistic growth. With webcomics, it is usually less of an issue about the consistency, and more about the quality of the story(after all, you need something to keep people reading).
 

Have a look at different comic panel styles. There is certainly a HUGE amount to select from.
For instance, many webcomics and newspaper(gag) comics run a horizontal strip that is between 3 and 5 panels long(numbers are not strict, however.). General comics(such found in comic books and manga) take up the whole page with a panel number of usually 5-10(again, not a strict rule, ensure that you focus on panel flow, rather than panel number). In Japan, there is what is known as 4-koma comics, which consist of four panels from top to bottom. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yonkoma

 

The best way you can learn about comic styles, is to look at comics themselves. Check out multiple comics and styles, and see what interests you the most. If you prefer a set style, in which you can focus mostly about the content of the comic, then check out the few panels and 4-koma comics.

If the art aspect is something you want to include as much as the story, then check out full comic-books. Comics that make full use of the space around them. The important aspect is looking at comics themselves, and seeing how they work and flow.

 

Finally, don't be afraid to try out different things for the same panels. Have multiple angles in mind for a single event? Sketch out all the ideas, and see what is most suitable. Even merge a few if you can't get a single one just right.

Find someone(or multiple people) who can read your stories and see your comics before they are complete. Having outside input can immensely improve your final content. ...Even if it does mean re-creating an entire panel or strip.

 

Best of luck: Creating a comic series is not an easy task.

[Guest]

Wow some wonderful pointers there, I have some experience storyboarding for animation so I know a little about portraying a story visually but I shall have to do my research into what type of layout I would like. I think the content would be my main focus so a simplistic approach could work very well.

 

Previously I would see planning as a serious chore and having to draw things out multiple times would irritate me but since I started looking at my art in a more serious manner I have found feedback to be most invaluable as it can point out areas that might not have the impact I'm looking for. I shall endeavour to look up some webcomics and see what makes them tick! I shall also try to condense my character designs so that they aren't overly complex, I'm going for something light-hearted and approachable so I won't need anything high-calibre and flashy.

 

Much love to you guys for the tips!

[Blique 211]

Do you want it to be for web or for print? I'm personally trying to get into webcomics as a career; I don't have anything published yet (hoping to make it by the end of 2013!), but I've done a lot of research into the subject. I'd be more than happy to answer any specific questions you have.

 

Photoshop is great for most everything. I used to use it all the time before I got a new laptop and lost access to it...I use Sai currently, and it's simple and nice, but it has nowhere near as many options as Photoshop has.

 

300 dpi minimum, as suggested, is best. Comic artists often draw their pages between 125% to 166% of the final size. So if I wanted to print a 5"x7.5" book (the standard size of manga in the US), my canvas size at 166% would be 8.3"x12.45" (2490x3735 px).

 

Do you want to do pages, like a graphic novel, or a series of comic strips? Most plot-based comics are graphic novel style, but it can work as comic strips if the plot is a secondary focus. For example, "Niels" is mostly short strips that don't follow a strict plot, but there's plenty of character development and things happening. Another example is "Axis Powers: Hetalia", which is mostly non-linear comedy, but occasionally has serious, longer subplots. And there's also the Korean webcomics that are growing in popularity, which are just one long strip per chapter. You can also be experimental, like this awesome thing.

 

Books I recommend are Scott McCloud's works, "Understanding Comics", "Reinventing Comics", and "Making Comics". They are all written/drawn as comics. So much easier to read.

 

Understanding Comics is a must-read for anyone; it's wonderful insight into the medium as a whole. Reinventing Comics is largely about the evolution of comics, particularly recently with the internet; it's good to read if you're interested in webcomics, but it also goes into detail regarding the marketing system in the comics industry. Making Comics is about skills - from character design to drawing expressions to typesetting - and technical stuff like pen choice and dpi.

 

I'm also a manga enthusiast of the highest order, so if there's a certain style, type, or genre you'd be interested in seeing as reference, just say the word and I'm more than glad to share some titles.

 

I'll definitely be back to critique your stuff when you post it!

Edited November 2, 2013 by Blique

[Guest]

I totally ordered those books from amazon

 

 

 

Well I drew these up at the cafe today and took a few photos for reference -3-

 

I'm trying to get some proportions and character designs down, since I'm going for a light-hearted piece I want to play around with large eyes and simplified features. There will be a focus on exaggerated expressions and reactions a la manga and other graphic novel styles.

 

In rough the story will be about a guy who frequents his local coffee shop and buys coffee he doesn't like just so he can get to know the cute girl who works there. He draws ponies and hilarity ensues when the girl asks him what he spends so much time sketching. When I said it was semi-biographical I was using the term loosely, the only similarities to myself are the coffee shop and the sketching, there's no cute girl and I love coffee but this cute little story popped into my head and I like the idea of having to explain ponies to a stranger. I don't want this to appeal solely to bronies so I'll try not to lay it on too thick, it's mostly about trying to start a conversation with a cute girl when you're too damn shy.

 

I think I'd like to try a layout something like Scott Pilgrim's, it's not a straight comic strip but not so dynamic as marvel/dc comics. It'll be monochrome too since I'm not confident with colours and I don't really think it would add a great deal to the piece. I'm going to do my best to borrow aspects of the layout and techniques without simply copying since I want to make a style all of my own. As I said before, I just want to make this a few pages long, I know all too well you should start small and not overstep your abilities.

 

I shall be drawing more concept art over the next few days for your criticisms

[Guest]

 

Still working away at my characters, I've played around with face shapes, outlines, hairstyles, expressions etc here. As my style really fluctuates depending on the mood of the picture I'm drawing it seems appropriate that I make use of it to accentuate what's happening in the panel.

 

For example, when the guy sees the girl for the first time, I'm going to do a slightly more detailed picture of her close-up to represent his staring at her through the shop window. When he panics and orders something on impulse, when he shows her his sketches, her confused reaction etc will all have an emphasized tone to get home the drama, but what I need is a good grasp of silly expressions so it's never ambiguous what I'm trying to portray.

 

Anyways, enough rambling, feedback, comments and critique please and hugs to all.

[Blique 211]

might make nice working BGM.

 

With exaggerated expressions/reactions, make sure to try an make up your own rather than copying the ones in other comics (the overused ones anyway). You're good about this so far, so the rest of this paragraph is just rambling to keep in mind. One Piece has very funny reaction faces - and by extension, scenes - because they're unusual and unique. By contrast, The Unique Legend (ironically) is cliche in its expressions; by using faces that the audience is used to, it doesn't cause surprise or laughter. But, again, your expressions here are all good; I just wanted to mention it just in case since the topic was at hand.

 

Also, how much manga do you read in general? I want to get a good idea before I accidentally start citing only manga you already know of. ^^;

 

Your proportion sketches are quite nice aesthetically - I particularly like the wide hips on the girl, gives her more form.

 

I like the girl's hairstyle in the bottom right of the last image, though that may just be my tastes. It looks more average and naturally charming as opposed to trendy, stylish hairstyles that "pretty girls" always seem to have. It depends on her personality though - whether she's fashionably pretty, naturally pretty, or "her personality radiates!" pretty.

 

For the guy, I like the drawing in the top left of the first page the most. At this point, I realize I like the most modest-looking designs...

[Lacey Shadows 164]

Personally, I like the first batch of sketches better, has a more John K, feel to it. Looks more unique . Plus, I'm also practicing a style similar to that so it's like you're reading my mind or somethin' 

[Guest]

Convenience Store might make nice working BGM.

 

With exaggerated expressions/reactions, make sure to try an make up your own rather than copying the ones in other comics (the overused ones anyway).

 

Also, how much manga do you read in general? I want to get a good idea before I accidentally start citing only manga you already know of. ^^;

 

That vid was magical :3

 

When it comes to expressions I think I do quite well with a range of them but they aren't humorously exaggerated, I can show "crestfallen" but not "dreams lie shattered on the floor" if you catch my drift, so I'm reaching further afield than I usually would.

 

I read very little manga sadly, I read chobits, love hina, suikoden III, get backers and battle vixens but honestly I don't know where to look for the good ones and randomly buying into a series I won't like would be eating away at my meager funds. There isn't a market for manga in the UK besides one high street chain with ridiculous prices and online shopping, where I can't have a read through to see if I like. Also, manga series tend to stretch into the dozens and by book ten I feel that a story has outstayed its welcome.

 

I would like to read much more like Scott Pilgrim (there's that reference again) as in, not full-on comic like Marvel or DC, handy paperback-sized and from the west but, again, where to look >.> I guess webcomics but I don't have the patience to read something still ongoing. Concise is my goal I think.

 

I really should get around to the script for this piece, then you can get a feel for the tone of the piece, I don't have a title or names for the characters yet either, but they'll be something unorthodox since that's how I roll.

 

 

Personally, I like the first batch of sketches better, has a more John K, feel to it. Looks more unique . Plus, I'm also practicing a style similar to that so it's like you're reading my mind or somethin' 

 

I should probably know who that is :  I moved away from the big, round eyes since Ive been drawing ponies in a similar way for so long I then made an effort to move to new eye shapes. The rest of the character went through a similar increase in fidelity but kept the same proportions.

 

The girl, I'm struggling with sine I'd love to put her in some nice stylized outfit but she's at work so should naturally be in uniform :

Well, I've finished draft one of the script. I know it's not perfect in getting the images across but I have no experience with such things and other excuses blah blah.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q30cxd0t1re47e5/Cafe%20Hero.doc

 

Next step will be some thumbnail sketches of the pages so I can get a grip on how much to put on each page etc, after you all tell me what you think and if anything needs changing of course

Edited November 4, 2013 by Dilarus

[Blique 211]

Are you unfamiliar with manga scanlations, or do you just prefer the books? There's hundreds of manga online - I read most of my manga on http://www.batoto.net/ (and then go out and buy the ones I like). Hmm, Scott Pilgrim...There's not too many manga with a simplified art style like that...The closest I can think of is Q-ko-chan. I think it got canceled though, so it's only two volumes long. The only other simple art styles are from short comedy types like Welcome to the Convenience Store. Plot-wise...I don't know. I need to pick Scott Pilgrim back up again. I keep forgetting to buy the second volume. >.>;

 

Manga Updates is a database that keeps track of all manga scanlations, and manga in general. I live there. 8D

 

I like the character names, especially for the girl.

 

The script looks great overall, though I'm not too fond of the narration at the beginning. Most of it could be removed and let the images explain everything - too much exposition can bore the readers, especially at the very beginning, so it's good to let them figure things out on their own a little and get more attached to the story. Another option is to put something exciting or interesting near the beginning to hook the readers and let them know there's something good coming in a bit. That aside though, looks good.

[Guest]

 

 

scanlations

 

What?

 

 

 

The script looks great overall, though I'm not too fond of the narration at the beginning. Most of it could be removed and let the images explain everything

 

You'll have to help me out here, I don't know how to get across how he's single and jobless other than there being no girlfriend there and it being a weekday... I understand the need to catch readers early on, but this isn't an epic tale so "hooking the audience in the first five minutes" isn't a possibility when the entire thing is five minutes in length. The exposition is necessary to set up the story and by the time the exposition has done it's job the story finishes.

 

Of course, I know you have to show rather than tell but I don't see how I can do so without multiple cuts to show his situation or dialogue where he has to explain himself, which defies the point of him being a shy loner.

 

I'm not trying to throw it back in your face here, I genuinely don't know what to do :\

[Blique 211]

Scanlations are Japanese/Chinese/Korean comics that have been scanned in, translated by fans, then shared on the internet.

 

I don't mean that you should remove all of the narration, just some of it - anything that might be needlessly restating what the image already tells. When I said "everything", I meant "everything that needs to be expressed in that certain panel". Sorry if I was unclear. There are certain things that only words can express, so, as you say, those words need to stay in there. It's balancing words and art, and deciding which works most effectively - and should thus get more focus - in each panel.

 

Scott McCloud goes over this in his books, saying "The secret of communicating clearly with words is to let words do what words do best, and when a picture is the better solution, to let them get out of the way."

 

So to pick some examples, "It was raining" could be replaced by just a drawing of it raining. "I don't have a job, a girlfriend or a Nobel Prize" would be difficult and extraneous to try and convey through images, so words are the best choice to convey it.

 

What I mean by hook is something that can be simple and quick. For example, the first panel could be just an image of him drawing (intro). Next panel is him looking thoughtful or serious (rising action). Here, the readers get curious about what he's drawing. Next panel is the ponies in his sketchbook (climax). Then the story's exposition starts. It's the structure that four-panel yonkoma strips work on - "ki-shou-ten-ketsu" - literally "introduction-development-twist-conclusion". In my example, the exposition took the place of the "conclusion", creating a slight cliffhanger. The readers then want to keep reading until the conclusion is properly reached.

[HoopHoof 137]

Thing about webcomics is that it's ok if you're art isn't exactly the right now. Readers usually like seeing the artist improve their skills as the story progresses. It's like they're going through a journey