Your thoughts sexism/sexist people.

[Thrashy 2,800]

I've never backpedaled. This has always been my ideology, and I've always credited the rare examples of male disadvantage to patriarchal gender norms set by other males, not due to feminism or some supposed "female privilege." If you look through my older posts on this forum, you'll see me saying the exact same thing. Once again, you're making presumptions about me, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't. I've made no such presumptions about you, after all, and have stuck to the issues.

 

Going into the whole "males are privileged" spiel without bothering to explain your stance that "women need access to these areas as well" kind of leads to the assumption that you're in support of classic "all males need to feel ashamed for the privileges that some men benefit from" argument put forth by almost every self-identied feminist of this day and age. If this assumption was incorrect, I freely admit that I was in error, although in the future I would suggest that you avoid using buzzwords such as "privilege" or "patriarchy", as they are heavily associated with the more misandristic facet of modern feminist groups and will often lead to a very quick dismissal of your arguments.

[Soul Runner 32]

I believe you shouldn't judge someone depending on their sex.

I'm not judged much luckily on the things i like but i do find it stupid that society has put certain rules up that certain genders can only like or do certain things.

[Clover Heart 978]

Sexism is one of my pet peeves. Hot buttons? I don't know what you call that thing. One of the things that pisses me off most. Especially since I'm agender, it adds a new level of exasperation.

 

This is something I seriously don't understand. Like, I don't get it. I don't understand how you treat people so differently for something that matters so little. It does not matter at all in modern society. Like, it doesn't. So I don't see why people make any sort of issue out of it.

 

I'm getting pissed off just thinking about it and it's clouding my head, so I think I'm just gonna leave it at that rather than spiraling into a big, long, angry, nonsensical rant.

[Dr. Mechano 630]

Going into the whole "males are privileged" spiel without bothering to explain your stance that "women need access to these areas as well" kind of leads to the assumption that you're in support of classic "all males need to feel ashamed for the privileges that some men benefit from" argument put forth by almost every self-identied feminist of this day and age. If this assumption was incorrect, I freely admit that I was in error, although in the future I would suggest that you avoid using buzzwords such as "privilege" or "patriarchy", as they are heavily associated with the more misandristic facet of modern feminist groups and will often lead to a very quick dismissal of your arguments.

I said earlier that I do not indict men for benefiting from privilege. I benefit from male privilege, but I recognize that I do, and recognize how inherently unfair it is. I'm obviously not blaming myself for institutional sexism; That would be absurd. I don't see how you can look at what I said - on its own - and read into it, "All men need to be ashamed." It sounds more like you have some preconceived notions about feminism, and are quick to jump the gun about what a self-described feminist must believe.

 

"Privilege" isn't a buzzword. It's been used in respected literature about discrimination (of all kinds, not just sexism) for a very long time by very qualified people. It simply refers to special rights or advantages available to certain groups, and I think that aptly describes the reality of women receiving inherently less power in our society. I stand by my use of that word because it is accurate.

 

I will note that I technically used the word "patriarchal," which means "of, relating to, or characteristic of a system of society or government controlled by men." I stand by this too, because those gender norms I mentioned earlier are due to a male-centric worldview. This idea that men are the tough guys, the unemotional, etc. has historically been pushed by society to favor men rather than disadvantage them, as well as keep women out of positions of power. Again, I stand by my choice of wording because it is accurate. And it's a problem for men and women, though women obviously have it worse.

 

tl;dr - Women have it worse. This isn't your fault if you're male (and feeling guilty does nothing to help the situation anyway), but you do benefit from living in a society that privileges males, so it is important to recognize that for the injustice that it is, and to stand against it.

[BlueHoodedHero 101]

Sexism is something I dread and detest for many reasons. Being a transgender male I had to endure humiliating situations because my biological sex is female, so I was forced to wear dresses, put on make-up, play with dolls, etc. When my parents bought me Barbie dolls I would take the heads off of them *lol*. Anyways I pretty much hate gender roles and either gender shouldn't be forced to do things they don't want to just because of their biological sex. I know girls who don't like all the stereotypical girl stuff and guys who don't like the stereotypical guy stuff. Why can't we all just enjoy ourselves and be seen as a person, not the things that sit between our legs?

 

Hmmm I guess I ranted on more about gender roles than sexism...

[Thrashy 2,800]

I said earlier that I do not indict men for benefiting from privilege. I benefit from male privilege, but I recognize that I do, and recognize how inherently unfair it is. I'm obviously not blaming myself for institutional sexism; That would be absurd. I don't see how you can look at what I said - on its own - and read into it, "All men need to be ashamed." It sounds more like you have some preconceived notions about feminism, and are quick to jump the gun about what a self-described feminist must believe.

 

"Privilege" isn't a buzzword. It's been used in respected literature about discrimination (of all kinds, not just sexism) for a very long time by very qualified people. It simply refers to special rights or advantages available to certain groups, and I think that aptly describes the reality of women receiving inherently less power in our society. I stand by my use of that word because it is accurate.

 

I will note that I technically used the word "patriarchal," which means "of, relating to, or characteristic of a system of society or government controlled by men." I stand by this too, because those gender norms I mentioned earlier are due to a male-centric worldview. This idea that men are the tough guys, the unemotional, etc. has historically been pushed by society to favor men rather than disadvantage them, as well as keep women out of positions of power. Again, I stand by my choice of wording because it is accurate. And it's a problem for men and women, though women obviously have it worse.

 

tl;dr - Women have it worse. This isn't your fault if you're male (and feeling guilty does nothing to help the situation anyway), but you do benefit from living in a society that privileges males, so it is important to recognize that for the injustice that it is, and to stand against it.

 

Deny it as much as you will, but "privilege" is a buzzword for the very reason that it necessarily implies a sense of entitlement. Neither I nor any other sensible man in the world feel that I am entitled to the leg-up I have over women in some areas of life, ergo it is not privilege; it is advantage. I, too, feel that the advantages that some (again, not all) men have over women are unfair, as well as the advantages that some women have over men.

 

But the bottom line is that this is neither a feminist issue nor a masculinist issue; it is an egalitarian issue. Equality between the two sexes is something that can only be achieved through compromise and working together. Whatever the means, the ends must be mutually beneficial. Accusing each other of "privilege", or feeling entitled to one's advantages, only serves to polarize both sides and inhibit progress.

[Onylex 2,837]

Sexism is something I dread and detest for many reasons. Being a transgender male I had to endure humiliating situations because my biological sex is female, so I was forced to wear dresses, put on make-up, play with dolls, etc. When my parents bought me Barbie dolls I would take the heads off of them *lol*. Anyways I pretty much hate gender roles and either gender shouldn't be forced to do things they don't want to just because of their biological sex. I know girls who don't like all the stereotypical girl stuff and guys who don't like the stereotypical guy stuff. Why can't we all just enjoy ourselves and be seen as a person, not the things that sit between our legs?

 

Hmmm I guess I ranted on more about gender roles than sexism...

 

lol to tell you the truth, I almost made this into a gender role rant rather than an actual topic but, then I remembered I was trying to ask opinions not rant. 

[Tigerpop198 696]

I think that someone has to right to be proud of there gender. When people do and try to hurt other people, or make other people feel bad, that is the problem.

[Scootalove 10,689]

Sexism is another thing that is stupid in this world. I'm all for equality, but when you think your gender is far more superior than the opposite gender you're going to be very surprised when you learn that gender superiority means nothing.

 

Treating people different based on their gender is not needed, we can't change the gender that we are because we are born that way so sexists deal with it.

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

I don't think it should be a thing, prejudice of any kind is stupid

 

There's one thing though, I think both "female rights" and "men's rights" activism is backhanded bullshit that holds society back. You can't push for equality between genders/sexes while blatantly favoring one side over the other. We need to dump both movements and come up with a new one that that doesn't favor one gender over the other by nature.

[ChoroChii 284]

I think it's ridiculous. We're all human, no matter what the gender.

 

Then there are people who just want to completely drop the female and male labels, which I find silly.

[Judgement 445]

Sexist people are uncomfortable around the other sex, and that is why they hate on them. I hate when groups exclude males or females because they want a single-sex group.

 

Lauren Faust did well developing gen 4. The goal was to get rid of the show being aimed at only girls. She succeeded. Nearly half the fandom of mlp is male and half is female. This relates to the topic because it shows that sexism and appeal towards only one sex isn't required. Splitting people apart based on sex is unnecessary.

 

I hate how in my society they constantly indoctrinate boys that "you should always do stuff for girls because they are weak". When they tell kids that kind of stuff, that is what starts sexism.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Judgement

[~Sugar Sprinkles~ 638]

Oh goodness. Don't even get me started. Sexist people are just...pinheads. I am not raging feminist, but, it does annoy me with so much sexism. Including when men do the "Women in the kitchen" bullcrap or say all women are just "weak". 

 

Even for men, i hate when females think all men should be doing the dirty work in the garage and the yard. 

 

I dunno, I had a dude who tried to do that "go back into the kitchen" bullcrap and let's say he shut up. Really now, more men in the world are chefs, I swear. Oh well, I try not to let it get to me, but if someone goes too far, its so aggravating.

[LunaUmbra 108]

Sexism is a difficult subject to broach because, just like stereotypes, there is some truth to the matter. There are traditional roles that men and women have filled for years before the fight for women's rights and the (very) slow march toward equality. Traditionally, men earn the money and do the heavy lifting while women mind the home and the family. This slow change in those traditional roles seems somewhat threatening to some stuck in that old way of thinking. And some people, while not consciously opposed to specific gender roles, tend to lean toward those very same roles. There are women who would'nt dream of ever doing anything labor intensive and there are men who wouldn't be caught dead doing anything "girly" or professions considered more for women, such as nursing. Until that trend ends, there will always be sexism and sexist people.

 

As for me, a woman can be just as "big and strong" as a man. I've met really girly men (actually dated one) and I've met really manly girls (did not date any). Any woman can do what men do, and any man can do what women do. In society I mean. And relatively. Know what, let me get back to you on that last part...

[Kelario 95]

Language and extreme offensivity. If you are female or simply cannot handle offensive material, please do not click this spoiler.

 

 

I'm (in)famous for going with scientifically proven stereotypes of women, e.g. this one:

 

Proof

 

I also enjoy cracking and hearing kitchen jokes, e.g. the comment on this video saying "Draggin her ass all the way back to the kitchen".

 

Aside from that, I think some of them (blondes, and those with abnormally large boobs) might need to get a bit of education from someone other than their 700 friends so they can stop being stupid whores.

 

 

 

 

TL;DR: I'm somewhat sexist myself.

 

And @mods: Please move this to the debate pit, because that's what the thread's purpose is.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Kelario

[Revertz 159]

Well i no way condone sexism but i also hate feminism, in this subject there is no black and white sure woman and men both deserve equal rights but they should be in no way equal, both sexes have good points and flaws and if we keep trying to be equal then there would only be one bland shade grey hope this makes sense haha

[Kelario 95]

Well i no way condone sexism but i also hate feminism, in this subject there is no black and white sure woman and men both deserve equal rights but they should be in no way equal, both sexes have good points and flaws and if we keep trying to be equal then there would only be one bland shade grey hope this makes sense haha

 

I should have included this in my post, but for a different reason. Actually, things like the internet's Men's Rights movement are there for a good reason - feminism is not for equality but for female power. As far as the world's gone, they've actually achieved their goal, but oh no, like hell they're stopping.

[Koelath 445]

Sexism is terrible but it depends on one's definition of sexism. I don't consider anything willingly entered into and perpetuated to be sexism so much as a business transaction. Hooters, porn, prostitution...Argue about "objectification" all you want but women choose these things. Objects, last I checked, cannot choose anything.

But to the point, sexism is outdated and dumb, same as racism. That said, I will continue to look at a nice pair of tits as a woman walks by because we are animals and tits are meant to attract so blow it out your a## if you can't handle harmless attention, ladies. Blame evolution, wear a burlap sack or chop them off but don't try to guilt trip me for having eyes and natural instincts.

 

Just as I will continue to enjoy this blackface bobblehead on my desk because it may be a stereotype but it's not racist: Racism is a philosophy of racial superiority. Nothing about blackface screams "whites are inferior" so it's just an amusing caricature. If anyone sees racism in it, that's on them. I see a toy with a comedic face.

 

Also, feminism is terrible and repulsive but that's a whole other can of worms. I can open it upon request, but until then...

 

In short: Sexism and racism are both outdated and ignorant but people who are often accusing things/people of racism and/or sexism really need to dial themselves back and get a grip because their accusations are often hyperbolic nonsense.

 

 

[HodgePodge 0]

ITT: Bronies

 

I'm a feminist. MLP: FiM was rebooted/created (? not sure of the correct term) by a feminist, and the show features feminist ideals. I shake my head in horror at those who are saying 'well sexism is bad, but it's based on biological facts': it isn't. Stahp. Go read up on just how variable sex and gender are. 

 

A lot of 'men's issues' would be greatly improved by feminism. For example, the stigma surrounding male rape victims is due to our patriarchal society forcing a lot of shitty ideas about men: that they're 'always up for it', so they can't be raped; that they 'should' be strong enough to fight anybody off... Things like that.

 

Also, some things which appear to be 'issues'... aren't. For example, someone mentioned custody earlier: actually, in contested custody (i.e. where the father actually says 'yes, I want custody of my children!') fathers generally get preference. Which is to say, the high rates of women getting custody are due not to men losing custody battles, but to simply not attempting to get custody (although, it's possible they too perceive women as 'always getting custody' and decide not to bother for that reason). '85% of women get custody' is not, in itself, evidence of a system that works against men, although it may appear to be on the surface.

 

I believe in feminism because the data supports it being necessary, as well as my own experiences of life. To say 'sexism from either sides is bad' is technically true, but it's a bit like 'reverse racism':

 

 

 

 

There is no institutionalized misandry. 

[Dr. Mechano 630]

Deny it as much as you will, but "privilege" is a buzzword for the very reason that it necessarily implies a sense of entitlement. Neither I nor any other sensible man in the world feel that I am entitled to the leg-up I have over women in some areas of life, ergo it is not privilege; it is advantage. I, too, feel that the advantages that some (again, not all) men have over women are unfair, as well as the advantages that some women have over men.

 

But the bottom line is that this is neither a feminist issue nor a masculinist issue; it is an egalitarian issue. Equality between the two sexes is something that can only be achieved through compromise and working together. Whatever the means, the ends must be mutually beneficial. Accusing each other of "privilege", or feeling entitled to one's advantages, only serves to polarize both sides and inhibit progress.

No, "privilege" simply means that certain classes of people are treated better in society. It does not mean they necessarily enjoy or even want this privilege. As a male and a feminist, I understand that society privileges me for my gender, but I don't like that, and believe that men and women absolutely must be treated equally if we're to truly consider our country an "egalitarian" society. "Privilege" and "advantage" are synonymous here.

 

Feminism isn't out to make women superior or hurt men. I fully believe that feminism - while it naturally prioritizes women's rights and issues - is undeniably beneficial to men as well. The reason I adopt the label "feminist" rather than "egalitarian" is because I believe feminism emphasizes the need to look at women's treatment in particular, and how skewed the gender power balance really is. Obviously, I care about men's issues as well, which I feel feminism also addresses.

 

Pure egalitarianism is a fine philosophy when followed properly and certainly can align with what feminists believe about gender equality; But I think all too often, self-described egalitarians treat gender inequality as something that is equally affecting both sexes, downplaying how badly women are disadvantaged in so doing.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Dr. Mechano

[Neon Fire 473]

As a girl, I hate that to fit in you have to enjoy things like going to the mall, gossiping and talking about guys.  I hate shopping unless I'm going to Hot Topic or Gamestop and picking up some cool stuff, I don't like to gossip and try not to and honestly, I'd rather hang out with guys than talk about "oh he's so cute" or whatever.  And it also annoys me that I've had to start wearing make up because if I don't, people think I'm like 12 years old when I'm really 18 just because I'm short...ugh...

[Thrashy 2,800]

No, "privilege" simply means that certain classes of people are treated better in society. It does not mean they necessarily enjoy or even want this privilege. As a male and a feminist, I understand that society privileges me for my gender, but I don't like that, and believe that men and women absolutely must be treated equally if we're to truly consider our country an "egalitarian" society. "Privilege" and "advantage" are synonymous here.

 

Feminism isn't out to make women superior or hurt men. I fully believe that feminism - while it naturally prioritizes women's rights and issues - is undeniably beneficial to men as well. The reason I adopt the label "feminist" rather than "egalitarian" is because I believe feminism emphasizes the need to look at women's treatment in particular, and how skewed the gender power balance really is. Obviously, I care about men's issues as well, which I feel feminism also addresses.

 

Pure egalitarianism is a fine philosophy when followed properly and certainly can align with what I believe; But I think all too often, self-described egalitarians treat gender inequality as something that is equally affecting both sexes, downplaying how badly women are disadvantaged in so doing.

 

This is where our philosophies differ. The issue of who is "more" disadvantaged is, in my eyes, nothing more than a dodge of having to take the other side's issues as seriously. If equality of both genders (not empowerment of one) truly is the goal we're all aiming for, then it would stand quite perfectly to reason that both sides' issues should be addressed equally and worked on simultaneously. You can't just put one side on the backburner and say "We'll get to you when we can." Equality doesn't work that way; it's tit for tat, push and shove, quid pro quo. Men help women, women help men. Humanity's most amazing feature is its propensity to rally together all different types to work towards a common goal, and equality is most definitely a common goal that we should all be working towards in equal parts.

 

Feminism was a highly relevant and necessary approach back when women in Western cultures lacked the same basic human rights as men - i.e., were outright oppressed - but now that those basic  rights are available to both genders, all that's left to deal with is the disparity in advantages. Or "privileges", as you seem to be starkly calling them when addressing men's advantages, but put in quotes whenever you offhandedly acknowledge women's very real advantages. Further evidence to me that your movement invariably treats men's issues with undue levity, in spite of your argument that feminism will ultimately help those issues.

 

Maybe you and I will never see eye-to-eye here, but I will always take an egalitarian approach to inequality. And as long as you practice feminism, dare I say, the right way, I will bear you no ire. Although I will forever refuse to take seriously self-righteous tumblr SJWs who crucify anyone who dares to make a sandwich joke, yet always write off actual female oppression going on in Middle Eastern countries on the bullshit excuse of "cultural differences must be respected." Perhaps that's just me, though.

[Guest]

1. I hate sexist men who think they're above woman. That they should be in control simply because they're a man. I hate men that treat women like a slave and like we're beneath them. And I'll never date a man who doesn't treat me as equal.

 

2. I hate women who bitch around about "ALL men are assholes" and "Every guy is the same". Women can be just as sexist. A lot of time women don't get a good guy like they want because they date typical douches. Maybe they should find a guy who'll do anything for her, instead of picking the guys that ignore her/flirt with every girl because they likes"bad boys" -_-

 

3. I hate people who want to bitch that EVERYTHING is sexist. NOT everything is sexist so stop whinning. EXAMPLE: women saying Skyrim is sexist even though you CAN be a female and female NPC's are anything from warriors to powerful mages to Jarls (leaders) so stop saying EVERY little thing is sexist.

 

K.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Rae ~

[Dr. Mechano 630]

Maybe you and I will never see eye-to-eye here, but I will always take an egalitarian approach to inequality. And as long as you practice feminism, dare I say, the right way, I will bear you no ire. Although I will forever refuse to take seriously self-righteous tumblr SJWs who crucify anyone who dares to make a sandwich joke, yet always write off actual female oppression going on in Middle Eastern countries on the bullshit excuse of "cultural differences must be respected." Perhaps that's just me, though.

I think it's just fine to speak out against a joke that you find sexist. Freedom of speech may allow them to make that joke, but it also allows me to voice my distaste for it. And voice my distaste I will, because if I stay quiet, then the only people left talking are the ones spewing unchallenged sexism.

 

I'm with you on your last point though: "cultural relativism" does not excuse bigotry of any kind. Not the unabashed misogyny in the middle-east, not the homophobia in Russia and Uganda, etc. On that point, you and I are in complete agreement.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Dr. Mechano

[Horsy 193]

Equality doesn't always mean justice between the two genders...

Edited January 24, 2014 by TheWiseHippo