Simple Ways and Rarity's characterization: OOC or no?

[Whatevs 377]

I see this bandied around a lot so I think a thread should be dedicated to it so both arguments can be heard.

For those unfamiliar, the issue is whether or not Rarity was ooc in Simple Ways.

I am of the opinion she was and I will give my reasons why.

Anyone who disagrees can list their reasons.

 

1) her crush in Trenderhoof was excessive.

Yes Rarity has had crushed and has been starstruck before but never like this. In Simple Ways Trenderhoof reduced a character who, while a little distant at times, was confident around characters she was interested in to a nervous wreck.

It is so obviously exaggerated I see no reason to labor the point further.

 

2) this was used to justify more ooc behavior.

The aforementioned exaggeration would have been fine if that was all that happened. But no.

Rarity's motivation then becomes a frenzy to steal Trenderhoof away and be resentful of AJ out of jealousy.

Rarity has been jealous before, but again it was with a much higher degree of maturity.

When she was jealous last she felt ashamed of herself for not being happy for her friend and would rather be silently angry than hurt her friend's feelings.

 

And again, this is only justified by having her be obsessed with a guy in a manner that is exaggerated.

 

I find all of this forgivable as the episode was simply a comedy but she was still ooc. As she often is for comic moments.

[PsychedelicPony 440]

I think they used her as vehicle to show the moral of the episode, don't change yourself for someone else. I think that they based it on the fact that many people get infatuated with someone and can't accept they aren't interested in them. I think they used Rarity in particular because she is over the top and seems like the most fitting candidate for this episode. If you ask me it is an important moral and it doesn't really fit any of the character's set personalities, but it fits Rarity the best based on her theatrical style and over the top-ness.

[Whatevs 377]

I think they used her as vehicle to show the moral of the episode, don't change yourself for someone else. I think that they based it on the fact that many people get infatuated with someone and can't accept they aren't interested in them. I think they used Rarity in particular because she is over the top and seems like the most fitting candidate for this episode. If you ask me it is an important moral and it doesn't really fit any of the character's set personalities, but it fits Rarity the best based on her theatrical style and over the top-ness.

That is a good point.

However, I am still of the opinion that they could have told the story without exaggerated Rarity as a character. Easily.

 

If they need a reason for her to change for Trend's attention? Make it a generous motivation. Where she remarks that if she is not willing to change for love then she's being unreasonable.

 

Need a way to escalate the conflict? Have her tell AJ her plan to get Trend (making sure it is okay with AJ) and simply have her get flummoxed at every opportunity by AJ simply being a better farm pony, which causes Rarity to descend further and further into hick-ness.

 

I suppose these are subjective gripes though. Your point still stands.

[SasQ 1,380]

I think it is actually both, and this is a masterstroke from the side of Josh Haber. I've never seen in any movie, animation or book anything like this before: characters playing so much out-of-character, and yet so much in-character at the same time.

 

True, Rarity plays very out-of-character when she's so much obsessed with Trenderhoof to the point that she seems to drop herself and start behaving like a country girl. But she still does it in her own distinguished way. She's still Rarity we all know and love. She dresses like a country girl, but she does it with style. She designed fashionable country outfits for herself. When she is about to plow the field, she comments about adding some colors to the plow. When she tries apple bucking, she makes it a dance. So yeah, she's in-character trying to play out-of-character When she changes her accent into Southern American, she still sounds like someone with British accent trying to mock someone with Southern Accent (which is another masterstroke of her voice actress, Tabitha St.Germain).

 

But there's not only Rarity in this episode who does that. If you didn't notice, there are at least two other ponies behaving like this.

There's Applejack, who at the end of the episode shows up in a fancy dress (and recall that she usually doesn't like to dress like that) and changes her voice tone so that she mocks being a distinguished fashionista. Of course she's doing all that to show Rarity her true self in a mirror reflection. (We'll get back to that too in a moment).

And there's also Trenderhoof, which tries to be a country pony instead of famous fashion designer from a big town who he really is. He's trying to play out of his character too.

 

Everyone in this episode is trying to change himself to someone else, from different reasons, which is a great harmony of plot lines (no pun intended) twisting around each other and strengthening the rope. They all play the same theme leading to the same conclusion. Now that is a good writing!

 

And back to the mirror reflection thing, this is another sign of good writing I very enjoy to see in some MLP:FiM episodes: deep psychology. I think that Josh Haber have shown a good understanding of psychology in this episode's script. He has shown the whole mechanism of what might cause someone to change oneself to someone else and how does it work. Cause and effect. Reason. And how much does it fail, because one cannot just drop who he/she is. It will always creep out between the lines to be seen, as we can clearly see with Rarity, Trend and Applejack. Even when they behave out-of-character, we can still tell what is their true nature, even if we didn't know them earlier. And in the concluding part of the episode, Josh has used a perfect psychological technique to show Rarity her mistake: by using mirroring. When someone is obsessed with some idea, one is hardly able to see his own mistake. One "sees the mote in his neighbor’s eye but not the beam in his own". You cannot simply tell him that he's wrong because he won't see it, since he's denying it in his mind. But you can act in a way that he can see himself in another person outside, and hopefully reflect back to himself. When I saw Applejack doing that, I was like "Wooow, this is brilliant! Kudos to the writer!" Especially that it works on a third level, even deeper and harder to notice: throughout the fourth wall (the TV screen). Whoever watches this episode, can see those characters acting in that way, and reflect to himself. Masterpiece! 

[Nature's Spell 526]

Well put SasQ. I'm not sure if the writers can ever really make a character OOC. They can write them in a different style and perhaps in a way many fans won't enjoy, but in the end what they do is always correct. You have a half dozen writers that really never talk to each other; they work alone, with only Meghan to keep them linked in some way. So the characters always stray from the baseline, but it's a question of degree.

[Orablanco Account 3,708]

I think it is actually both, and this is a masterstroke from the side of Josh Haber. I've never seen in any movie, animation or book anything like this before: characters playing so much out-of-character, and yet so much in-character at the same time.

 

True, Rarity plays very out-of-character when she's so much obsessed with Trenderhoof to the point that she seems to drop herself and start behaving like a country girl. But she still does it in her own distinguished way. She's still Rarity we all know and love. She dresses like a country girl, but she does it with style. She designed fashionable country outfits for herself. When she is about to plow the field, she comments about adding some colors to the plow. When she tries apple bucking, she makes it a dance. So yeah, she's in-character trying to play out-of-character When she changes her accent into Southern American, she still sounds like someone with British accent trying to mock someone with Southern Accent (which is another masterstroke of her voice actress, Tabitha St.Germain).

 

But there's not only Rarity in this episode who does that. If you didn't notice, there are at least two other ponies behaving like this.

There's Applejack, who at the end of the episode shows up in a fancy dress (and recall that she usually doesn't like to dress like that) and changes her voice tone so that she mocks being a distinguished fashionista. Of course she's doing all that to show Rarity her true self in a mirror reflection. (We'll get back to that too in a moment).

And there's also Trenderhoof, which tries to be a country pony instead of famous fashion designer from a big town who he really is. He's trying to play out of his character too.

 

Everyone in this episode is trying to change himself to someone else, from different reasons, which is a great harmony of plot lines (no pun intended) twisting around each other and strengthening the rope. They all play the same theme leading to the same conclusion. Now that is a good writing!

 

And back to the mirror reflection thing, this is another sign of good writing I very enjoy to see in some MLP:FiM episodes: deep psychology. I think that Josh Haber have shown a good understanding of psychology in this episode's script. He has shown the whole mechanism of what might cause someone to change oneself to someone else and how does it work. Cause and effect. Reason. And how much does it fail, because one cannot just drop who he/she is. It will always creep out between the lines to be seen, as we can clearly see with Rarity, Trend and Applejack. Even when they behave out-of-character, we can still tell what is their true nature, even if we didn't know them earlier. And in the concluding part of the episode, Josh has used a perfect psychological technique to show Rarity her mistake: by using mirroring. When someone is obsessed with some idea, one is hardly able to see his own mistake. One "sees the mote in his neighbor’s eye but not the beam in his own". You cannot simply tell him that he's wrong because he won't see it, since he's denying it in his mind. But you can act in a way that he can see himself in another person outside, and hopefully reflect back to himself. When I saw Applejack doing that, I was like "Wooow, this is brilliant! Kudos to the writer!" Especially that it works on a third level, even deeper and harder to notice: throughout the fourth wall (the TV screen). Whoever watches this episode, can see those characters acting in that way, and reflect to himself. Masterpiece!

You've made the episode slightly better for me. Congrats.

 

But I dunno, I get what they were going for, but something felt off in the episode. Rarity has been proven to be perfectly capable of helping AJ on the farm, so the clueless-ness in the first half felt a bit forced, and her behavior in the second half was downright insulting.

 

I consider Rarity to be Best Pony, but that episode wasn't her finest hour. Good moral and decent idea, not that fantastic an execution.

[Nature's Spell 526]

One thing to keep in mind is that the writers don't always have the final word; I've heard several times that the story is often changed up stream by Meghan, Hasbro or the crew in Canada. Many times the results are better and other times not so much.

[Megas 28,114]

I thought she got pretty pathetic in that episode, but I wouldn't say she was OOC

[Whatevs 377]

I think it is actually both, and this is a masterstroke from the side of Josh Haber. I've never seen in any movie, animation or book anything like this before: characters playing so much out-of-character, and yet so much in-character at the same time.

 

True, Rarity plays very out-of-character when she's so much obsessed with Trenderhoof to the point that she seems to drop herself and start behaving like a country girl. But she still does it in her own distinguished way. She's still Rarity we all know and love. She dresses like a country girl, but she does it with style. She designed fashionable country outfits for herself. When she is about to plow the field, she comments about adding some colors to the plow. When she tries apple bucking, she makes it a dance. So yeah, she's in-character trying to play out-of-character When she changes her accent into Southern American, she still sounds like someone with British accent trying to mock someone with Southern Accent (which is another masterstroke of her voice actress, Tabitha St.Germain).

 

But there's not only Rarity in this episode who does that. If you didn't notice, there are at least two other ponies behaving like this.

There's Applejack, who at the end of the episode shows up in a fancy dress (and recall that she usually doesn't like to dress like that) and changes her voice tone so that she mocks being a distinguished fashionista. Of course she's doing all that to show Rarity her true self in a mirror reflection. (We'll get back to that too in a moment).

And there's also Trenderhoof, which tries to be a country pony instead of famous fashion designer from a big town who he really is. He's trying to play out of his character too.

 

Everyone in this episode is trying to change himself to someone else, from different reasons, which is a great harmony of plot lines (no pun intended) twisting around each other and strengthening the rope. They all play the same theme leading to the same conclusion. Now that is a good writing!

 

And back to the mirror reflection thing, this is another sign of good writing I very enjoy to see in some MLP:FiM episodes: deep psychology. I think that Josh Haber have shown a good understanding of psychology in this episode's script. He has shown the whole mechanism of what might cause someone to change oneself to someone else and how does it work. Cause and effect. Reason. And how much does it fail, because one cannot just drop who he/she is. It will always creep out between the lines to be seen, as we can clearly see with Rarity, Trend and Applejack. Even when they behave out-of-character, we can still tell what is their true nature, even if we didn't know them earlier. And in the concluding part of the episode, Josh has used a perfect psychological technique to show Rarity her mistake: by using mirroring. When someone is obsessed with some idea, one is hardly able to see his own mistake. One "sees the mote in his neighbor’s eye but not the beam in his own". You cannot simply tell him that he's wrong because he won't see it, since he's denying it in his mind. But you can act in a way that he can see himself in another person outside, and hopefully reflect back to himself. When I saw Applejack doing that, I was like "Wooow, this is brilliant! Kudos to the writer!" Especially that it works on a third level, even deeper and harder to notice: throughout the fourth wall (the TV screen). Whoever watches this episode, can see those characters acting in that way, and reflect to himself. Masterpiece! 

That did not really respond to the two areas I was talking about.

You've made the episode slightly better for me. Congrats.

 

But I dunno, I get what they were going for, but something felt off in the episode. Rarity has been proven to be perfectly capable of helping AJ on the farm, so the clueless-ness in the first half felt a bit forced, and her behavior in the second half was downright insulting.

 

I consider Rarity to be Best Pony, but that episode wasn't her finest hour. Good moral and decent idea, not that fantastic an execution.

when has she helped AJ on the farm before?

[Orablanco Account 3,708]

 

 

when has she helped AJ on the farm before?

"Applebucking Season". In general, I just don't think anyone that lives that close to a farm and is that close with someone who works on a farm should be that weird about the whole thing. Maybe I wouldn't have minded that section and taken it as the cute bit of fluff it is if Rarity didn't just decide to go full retard later on.

[Whatevs 377]

"Applebucking Season". In general, I just don't think anyone that lives that close to a farm and is that close with someone who works on a farm should be that weird about the whole thing. Maybe I wouldn't have minded that section and taken it as the cute bit of fluff it is if Rarity didn't just decide to go full retard later on.

hm. Fair point.

People dislike SAYS because it made Spike incompetent.

 

And again the episode was fluff.

[Scootalove 10,692]

I didn't really pay too much attention to see if either of them were in character or not, I wouldn't say that Rarity and Applejack were out of character. Sure they tried to outdo each other to see if one of them couldn't pull off what the other couldn't do, but other than that I don't think Rarity's characterization was out of character.

[PrymeStriker 408]

I attribute it to the poor writing of the episode that her character suffered. As someone else noted, she was used as a vehicle for the moral. Though, this vehicle was a 1983 Nissan Shitbox.

 

 

Her focus episodes in season four have been pretty piss-poor altogether in my opinion.

[Whatevs 377]

I attribute it to the poor writing of the episode that her character suffered. As someone else noted, she was used as a vehicle for the moral. Though, this vehicle was a 1983 Nissan Shitbox.

 

 

Her focus episodes in season four have been pretty piss-poor altogether in my opinion.

>Manehattan

>piss-poor

Sorry, Rarity doesn't have bad focus episode.

 

(I'm actually asking for some elaboration)

Edited February 28, 2014 by Whatevs

[PrymeStriker 408]

>Manehattan

>piss-poor

Sorry, Rarity doesn't have bad focus episode.

 

(I'm actually asking for some elaboration)

Well, her two focus episodes for season four have been "Rarity Takes Manehattan" and "Simple Ways."

 

The best way to explain why I really don't like Simple Ways is from my post on the episode's discussion thread. I'll just paste it here:

 

I thought the plot line was cockamamie and feeble. Also, "Trenderhoof" was a complete blockhead.

As far as Rarity Takes Manehattan is concerned, the episode was mediocre at best. Miles better than Simple Ways, but still not acceptable. It was a rather dull story with a rather jejune use of characters in my opinion. Also, like a few other episodes in this season, I'd predicted the outcome of the plot about five minutes in. On top of that, the song was pitiful. I found myself bored and uninterested with episode until that assistant showed up at the very end (forgive me if she has a name, I can't remember it).

[Whatevs 377]

Well, her two focus episodes for season four have been "Rarity Takes Manehattan" and "Simple Ways."

 

The best way to explain why I really don't like Simple Ways is from my post on the episode's discussion thread. I'll just paste it here:

 

 

As far as Rarity Takes Manehattan is concerned, the episode was mediocre at best. Miles better than Simple Ways, but still not acceptable. It was a rather dull story with a rather jejune use of characters in my opinion. Also, like a few other episodes in this season, I'd predicted the outcome of the plot about five minutes in. On top of that, the song was pitiful. I found myself bored and uninterested with episode until that assistant showed up at the very end (forgive me if she has a name, I can't remember it).

I disagree. Manehattan is not even close to what mediocre is for this show. Mediocre for this show is far more repetitive and predictable than Manehattan

The plotline showcased Rarity's character (whole point of focus episodes) by allowing her emotions and missteps to govern the plot (which made things go a lot smoother and faster). Expanded her characterization into generous optimist who is happiest being generous for its own sake.

Had a lot of density in how it told the moral (the social karma aspect, her lack of appreciation, her friends' obligations to her etc).

Had good hidden messages (success is pointless without people to be around) and told a mature moral.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Whatevs

[PrymeStriker 408]

Expanded her characterization into generous optimist who is happiest being generous for its own sake.

You make some good arguments, but the fact that I could tell where the story was going so early kind of ruined the rest of the episode. Put simply, I was bored watching Rarity Takes Manehattan. Where others in this series kept me involved in the plot-line, this one fell short in comparison.

 

Had good hidden messages (success is pointless without people to be around)

That wasn't the moral? I thought it was.

[Whatevs 377]

You make some good arguments, but the fact that I could tell where the story was going so early kind of ruined the rest of the episode. Put simply, I was bored watching Rarity Takes Manehattan. Where others in this series kept me involved in the plot-line, this one fell short in comparison.

 

 

That wasn't the moral? I thought it was.

You're right that was stated explicitly at the end. I misremembered.

On the other hand, I see where you're coming from with it being predictable but, imo, that's nearly every episode in this show.

 

But back to the point.

I think the 'vehicle for the plot' point is valid. Because the episode seemed to be hammering home the "girly celebrity obsession" subtext pretty hard.

Afterall, the Trenderhoof is a wispy pretty boy whose name is 'Trend.'

And while these obsessions are trends and Rarity makes the most sense out of the main cast for this episode, it's still not who Faust designed her to be. Faust designed her as someone who makes her own styles and sets trends, rather than someone who consumes and apes them.

Yes, Rarity was always been concerned with the approval and expectations of others and society at large but that makes sense for her character (being generosity and a classy socialite), is very normal, and is very different from a trend follower.

However, this was all subtext.

 

And I am willing to give the episode the benefit of the doubt that having Rarity act kooky was the point, that she was not acting like herself. Not simply with becoming AJ but also with how she handled everything in the episode being very uncharacteristic of her.

[Singe 2,111]

There has been times Rarity will break from her standard self for the sake of something greater. Cuts her own tail. Sticks her head in garbage to lie to Pinkie Pie.

[FNGRpony 658]

Well Rarity when placed with something she can't easily be obtained acts poorly.

 

It's a typical rarity episode.  And to be fair what else are they gonna fill 22 mins with?
Lets look, rarity hits on Trender hoof,

he blows her off, and she says "buck him"

what than?

 

She goes around sabotaging Trender hoof hitting on Apple Jack out of spite?  We spend the rest of the episode with Rarity actually setting up the event?

It's not that rarity is made to look bad for the sake of the episode,

it's that rarity's character is generally made bad in her episodes so their can be, well,

and episode.

 

If rarity didn't treat her friends like dirt in rarity takes it would been even less fun.

In sweet in elite i guess they could had rarity juggle both life styles and skipped sleep all together,

and seen her suffer a brake down instead?

 

But than rarity would be more apple jackish.

 

And rarity doesn't believe in helping out everyone like that (Ducks).

[Whatevs 377]

Well Rarity when placed with something she can't easily be obtained acts poorly.

 

It's a typical rarity episode. And to be fair what else are they gonna fill 22 mins with?

Lets look, rarity hits on Trender hoof,

he blows her off, and she says "buck him"

what than?

 

She goes around sabotaging Trender hoof hitting on Apple Jack out of spite? We spend the rest of the episode with Rarity actually setting up the event?

It's not that rarity is made to look bad for the sake of the episode,

it's that rarity's character is generally made bad in her episodes so their can be, well,

and episode.

 

If rarity didn't treat her friends like dirt in rarity takes it would been even less fun.

In sweet in elite i guess they could had rarity juggle both life styles and skipped sleep all together,

and seen her suffer a brake down instead?

 

But than rarity would be more apple jackish.

 

And rarity doesn't believe in helping out everyone like that (Ducks).

As per usual, you overstate things.

 

And I'm pretty sure Rarity has done plenty to help others out, even to her own detriment.

She just has her own goals as well.

 

>Rarity's character is generally made bad

Like when?

Sonic Rainboom when she did not know what she was doing? Maybe.

Green Isn't Your Color when she stops herself for the sake of her friend? Hardly.

Sisterhooves, where she gets into an argument with her sister and then realizes she was wrong and rectifies it? Again, hardly.

S&E? Where her efforts to not screw up her opportunity and keep everyone happy almost blow up in her face? Not really.

Manehattan, where she is exceptionally generous throughout aside from when stress gets to her? No.

 

Kindly do not chalk up human mistakes to some kind of evil.

 

And sadly you missed the point. She has been faced with situations like this and did not act this way.

However, what you said does help my point, as it make real the reasoning the writers had for this episode.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Whatevs