Is the title ''Brony'' deteriorating?

[Guest]

I was going to actually write a legit reply to this but...

 

Your entire post was useless. It's not that we're "accepting the title because of X reason" it's "everyone else is calling us this and we aren't them so whether you accept the label or not, you're a brony".

 

You or I have no say in what everyone wants to call us. Accept it. Get over it. Move on.

And? That still doesn't mean we have to accept it. I am not crying myself to sleep over it, but if someone asks "are you a brony?" I simply say "nope" and call it a day. If they want to believe wrong information they may, but I will always provide the right information.

 

Also you're kind of using bullying to get people to accept the title now: "GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON. JUST ACCEPT THE TITLE." Pressuring yields no results.

[Sekhayet 253]

And? That still doesn't mean we have to accept it. I am not crying myself to sleep over it, but if someone asks "are you a brony?" I simply say "nope" and call it a day. If they want to believe wrong information they may, but I will always provide the right information.

 

Also you're kind of using bullying to get people to accept the title now: "GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON. JUST ACCEPT THE TITLE." Pressuring yields no results.

 

Bullying? Really? Where's the part where I'm coercing someone to do something? I don't care if someone wants the label or not. I do care if they're going to get all snippy about it and rile the community up about something meaningless. It's a label. Grow. A. Thicker. Skin.

 

It's really simple. Are you the person that's doing the labeling or being labeled?

 

If case 1: your opinion is out there and you consider all MLP fans bronies. You also don't matter unless you have some kind of power over the labelee.

 

If case 2: you're fucked. You have no way to get rid of the label even if you don't think or don't act as if it applies to you. Welcome to human psychology and society. Enjoy that shit.

[Guest]

 

Bullying? Really? Where's the part where I'm coercing someone to do something? I don't care if someone wants the label or not. I do care if they're going to get all snippy about it and rile the community up about something meaningless. It's a label. Grow. A. Thicker. Skin.

 

It's really simple. Are you the person that's doing the labeling or being labeled?

 

If case 1: your opinion is out there and you consider all MLP fans bronies. You also don't matter unless you have some kind of power over the labelee.

 

If case 2: you're fucked. You have no way to get rid of the label even if you don't think or don't act as if it applies to you. Welcome to human psychology and society. Enjoy that shit.

Re-read your own words. You're coming off as pretty aggressive, telling people to just "deal with it". Saying if they object to it, they are "snippy" and doing something "meaningless" it's demeaning language intended to discourage people from not accepting the label.

 

People don't want to accept the label, and if they don't they have the right to do that. You're being a jerk for insisting that they don't, you get over it.

 

Meaningless is the community's offense to people not wanting to use the title and their resistance to people not using it.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Guest

[Sekhayet 253]

Re-read your own words. You're coming off as pretty aggressive, telling people to just "deal with it". Saying if they object to it, they are "snippy" and doing something "meaningless" it's demeaning language intended to discourage people from not accepting the label.

 

People don't want to accept the label, and if they don't they have the right to do that. You're being a jerk for insisting that they don't, you get over it.

 

I just wrote them and proofread them, I know exactly what tone I'm using. I don't need to re-read it.

 

"Rejecting" the title brony is like closing your eyes at a movie theatre and then demanding a refund because you didn't actually get to watch the movie.

 

No matter how much you deny it you are going to be labeled a brony. That is what-is-there-to-be-interacted-with that is reality not matter how much you wish it were not so. No one is going to care that you don't identify with the title- they've already lumped you into the category.

 

There's reality and then there is opinion. My aggression is there because this community really really has a problem accepting reality.

[Guest]

 

 

"Rejecting" the title brony is like closing your eyes at a movie theatre and then demanding a refund because you didn't actually get to watch the movie.

 

How are the two similar at all? Please explain.

 

 

 

No matter how much you deny it you are going to be labeled a brony. That is what-is-there-to-be-interacted-with that is reality not matter how much you wish it were not so. No one is going to care that you don't identify with the title- they've already lumped you into the category.

 

Really? Because when people ask me if I'm a brony and I say "nah", no one seems to force the term on me, except other bronies. Also that is stunted thinking; "because people will believe it so, you should accept it."

 

 

 

There's reality and then there is opinion. My aggression is there because this community really really has a problem accepting reality.

 

What they really have a problem accepting is that not every fan is a brony. As I said, most people outside the fandom won't even know what bronies are or care. If you say "I'm not a brony" they generally accept that at face value. I have never once encountered a person who argued it that wasn't a brony. It seems as though bronies are the ones who refuse to accept that other people don't use the term to describe themselves. I don't know what "reality" you're living in, but in the rest of the world's reality, most people don't give a shit what TV shows you watch and don't press the issue.

 

Sorry, but your argument falls flat because it's based upon faulty logic. The argument of "forced acceptance". "A believes B, A will not budge, therefore you should accept B." It may work for A to pressuring people into things, but it does not make A inherently right, now does it? I can always object to people being wrong, regardless of how much support they have. It's also the argument of mass number. If the foe outnumbers you, then you shouldn't question it (though in this case the foe doesn't, because as I said the only people who seem to have a problem with this are bronies).

 

The same kind of reasoning is used for converting people to religions. "Your whole town is Christian, your family is Christian, you should come to church." It's the idea that because everyone around you is doing it, you should just accept it and not object for fear of stirring up the waters.

 

Also bit of advice: I would avoid aggressive tones in arguments, they are signs of anger and annoyance and generally when you argue while angry or annoyed, holes are easier to punch in your logic because you're not combing your words as carefully. Not to mention aggression is often associated with many fallacies so when you argue with aggression, you are more or less dooming your argument from the start. Take some time to calm down and collect yourself.

[Sekhayet 253]

Please format right, IP.Board...
 
 

How are the two similar at all? Please explain.
 
1
 
 
Really? Because when people ask me if I'm a brony and I say "nah", no one seems to force the term on me, except other bronies. Also that is stunted thinking; "because people will believe it so, you should accept it."
 
2
 
 
What they really have a problem accepting is that not every fan is a brony. As I said, most people outside the fandom won't even know what bronies are or care. If you say "I'm not a brony" they generally accept that at face value. I have never once encountered a person who argued it that wasn't a brony. It seems as though bronies are the ones who refuse to accept that other people don't use the term to describe themselves. I don't know what "reality" you're living in, but in the rest of the world's reality, most people don't give a shit what TV shows you watch and don't press the issue.
 
Sorry, but your argument falls flat because it's based upon faulty logic. The argument of "forced acceptance". "A believes B, A will not budge, therefore you should accept B." It may work for A to pressuring people into things, but it does not make A inherently right, now does it? I can always object to people being wrong, regardless of how much support they have. It's also the argument of mass number. If the foe outnumbers you, then you shouldn't question it (though in this case the foe doesn't, because as I said the only people who seem to have a problem with this are bronies).
 
The same kind of reasoning is used for converting people to religions. "Your whole town is Christian, your family is Christian, you should come to church." It's the idea that because everyone around you is doing it, you should just accept it and not object for fear of stirring up the waters.
 
Also bit of advice: I would avoid aggressive tones in arguments, they are signs of anger and annoyance and generally when you argue while angry or annoyed, holes are easier to punch in your logic because you're not combing your words as carefully. Not to mention aggression is often associated with many fallacies so when you argue with aggression, you are more or less dooming your argument from the start. Take some time to calm down and collect yourself.
 
3

 
 
1. That movie is playing in that theatre you're sitting in, whether you watch it or not. The act of closing your eyes and claiming that the movie did not play is analogous to the act of liking MLP (invariant reality), having someone observe that you like MLP (invariant reality), and then denying that the label they use for "someone who likes MLP". The referent "someone who likes MLP" is mapped to the label "brony"- you can't change them.
 
2. Okay. But if you first told them you like MLP and participate in the fandom, what are they going to call you? Don't try to avoid that question- we both know what they're going to consider you. It's a cached thought- it's not even their fault they automatically lump you into the label. It simply is.
 
3. Anyone who watches the news (everyone) or browses the internet (again, everyone [don't you dare nitpick this I know it's a generalization, I'm just making a point]) knows what a brony is. So telling someone you like MLP is going to trigger that "brony" association.
 
I'm not even saying that you need to accept the label in the way you are implying (nice try twisting my words, though). There is a difference between embracing the label and allowing it to be applied to you. There is a difference between when in Rome, do as the Romans do and become a Roman. Hell, the distinction isn't even that specific- it's more along the lines of passive observation.
 
Someone considers you a brony... okay... and? What?
 
This whole argument is essentially an empty cry and against a perceived injustice. You've been labelled by someone... and... what? What has changed?
 
Their opinion of you? It was changed when they found out you like MLP.
Your opinion of yourself? I don't see the change, you are the same you.
The world's opinion of you? It doesn't really care as long as you don't be a dick about it and can still do something useful.
 
If you think an "aggressive tone" implies a "logical fallacy" then you don't know what you're actually trying to convey to me. I'm pretty sure the more accurate statement is "An aggressive tone induces a bias in a reader of opposing opinions to more easily dismiss an argument because the reader will instinctively dislike something that is perceived to be strongly opposing or indirectly attacking them or their viewpoint."

[Guest]

 

 

1. That movie is playing in that theatre you're sitting in, whether you watch it or not. The act of closing your eyes and claiming that the movie did not play is analogous to the act of liking MLP (invariant reality), having someone observe that you like MLP (invariant reality), and then denying that the label they use for "someone who likes MLP". The referent "someone who likes MLP" is mapped to the label "brony"- you can't change them.

 

Really? Because most people I meet don't know what the word "brony" means.

 

 

 

2. Okay. But if you first told them you like MLP and participate in the fandom, what are they going to call you? Don't try to avoid that question- we both know what they're going to consider you. It's a cached thought- it's not even their fault they automatically lump you into the label. It simply is.

 

I'm not avoiding the question. I simply say I am not a brony, and they just nod and go "ah". No further comments are usually made. People don't care as much as you think they do.

 

 

 

3. Anyone who watches the news (everyone) or browses the internet (again, everyone [don't you dare nitpick this I know it's a generalization, I'm just making a point]) knows what a brony is. So telling someone you like MLP is going to trigger that "brony" association.

 

Actually that's not true. A majority of people still don't know what bronies are, that's why there are news stories in the first place. The association is made only by bronies it seems.

 

 

 

I'm not even saying that you need to accept the label in the way you are implying (nice try twisting my words, though).

 

Perhaps you should word yourself more carefully if you do not wish for misinterpretations.

 

 

 

There is a difference between embracing the label and allowing it to be applied to you.

 

And? What's your point? That's not being contested. I am merely saying that if you do not use the label you're not wrong to do so. You can simply say "nah" and that's the end of it. You're acting like people are up in arms and going on giant campaigns to stop people from calling them bronies when in reality this is what is happening:

 

Person A: You like MLP?

Person B: It's alright.

Person A: You a brony?

Person B: Nah.

Person A: Ah, okay.

 

You're acting like there is this huge resistance when in reality the only people trying to associate the title forcefully are the ones who don themselves with it who seem to feel some form of personal rejection when others choose not to.

 

 

 

This whole argument is essentially an empty cry and against a perceived injustice.

 

 

Actually that would be bronies who take offense to people not calling themselves bronies. As I just stated, no one is acting like they are being injusticed, they just are kindly informing people they are mistaken.

 

If someone says you're African American and you say "actually I'm from Jamaica" are you on some kind of tirade because you correct them? No, because the conversation usually ends there. You're merely correcting a minor inaccuracy.

 

 

 

Their opinion of you? It was changed when they found out you like MLP.

 

I really want to know who you're hanging out with. No one I knew suddenly changed their opinion of me based on a TV show. XD

 

 

 

If you think an "aggressive tone" implies a "logical fallacy" then you don't know what you're actually trying to convey to me.

 

I did not state that, I said the two go hand in hand. Your logical fallacies come from... Well logical fallacies. XD

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure the more accurate statement is "An aggressive tone induces a bias in a reader of opposing opinions to more easily dismiss an argument because the reader will instinctively dislike something that is perceived to be strongly opposing or indirectly attacking them or their viewpoint."

 

I suppose that could also be true, however I don't think anyone can deny that when you get angry, your argument generally can get sloppy because you are not being as careful.

 

Essentially I think you're thinking farther into it than it needs to be thought. You seem to have this impression that people are going on some crusade about a label being used when they are actually just saying "oh, nah" and moving on. You're acting like they are hung up on that fact when in reality the only ones hung up on it are the ones who are upset that they are not using the label. I have never met a non-brony/non-MLP fan that insisted someone was a brony and when they told them no continued to insist it. I am doubting how frequent such an occurrence happens.

 

I am sorry that you may have run into people like that, but ultimately I am not a brony. You can choose to believe I am, but you would be incorrect. You're entitled to be incorrect though.

[Sekhayet 253]

Really? Because most people I meet don't know what the word "brony" means.

 

1

 

 

I'm not avoiding the question. I simply say I am not a brony, and they just nod and go "ah". No further comments are usually made. People don't care as much as you think they do.

 

 

 

 

Actually that's not true. A majority of people still don't know what bronies are, that's why there are news stories in the first place. The association is made only by bronies it seems.

 

2

 

 

Perhaps you should word yourself more carefully if you do not wish for misinterpretations.

 

 

3

 

And? What's your point? That's not being contested. I am merely saying that if you do not use the label you're not wrong to do so. You can simply say "nah" and that's the end of it. You're acting like people are up in arms and going on giant campaigns to stop people from calling them bronies when in reality this is what is happening:

 

Person A: You like MLP?

Person B: It's alright.

Person A: You a brony?

Person B: Nah.

Person A: Ah, okay.

 

You're acting like there is this huge resistance when in reality the only people trying to associate the title forcefully are the ones who don themselves with it who seem to feel some form of personal rejection when others choose not to.

 

4

 

 

 

Actually that would be bronies who take offense to people not calling themselves bronies. As I just stated, no one is acting like they are being injusticed, they just are kindly informing people they are mistaken.

 

If someone says you're African American and you say "actually I'm from Jamaica" are you on some kind of tirade because you correct them? No, because the conversation usually ends there. You're merely correcting a minor inaccuracy.

 

5

 

 

I really want to know who you're hanging out with. No one I knew suddenly changed their opinion of me based on a TV show. XD

 

 

6

 

I did not state that, I said the two go hand in hand. Your logical fallacies come from... Well logical fallacies. XD

 

 

7

 

I suppose that could also be true, however I don't think anyone can deny that when you get angry, your argument generally can get sloppy because you are not being as careful.

 

Essentially I think you're thinking farther into it than it needs to be thought. You seem to have this impression that people are going on some crusade about a label being used when they are actually just saying "oh, nah" and moving on. You're acting like they are hung up on that fact when in reality the only ones hung up on it are the ones who are upset that they are not using the label. I have never met a non-brony/non-MLP fan that insisted someone was a brony and when they told them no continued to insist it. I am doubting how frequent such an occurrence happens.

 

I am sorry that you may have run into people like that, but ultimately I am not a brony. You can choose to believe I am, but you would be incorrect. You're entitled to be incorrect though.

 

8

 

1. That might explain a few things. Everyone I know is well versed in internet memes and groups. We're both under a selection bias then.

 

2. If that were true, MSNBC wouldn't be continuing to cry about Bridgegate. Everyone knows about it. They're reporting for ratings, not to inform people about anything (coooooompletely different topic)

 

3. Acknowledged. I'll make a definition list at the beginning of my posts.

 

4. Have you read the last few pages of the thread? Or any of the IRC discussions that have occurred so. many. times. over this issue? What you actually said is something along the lines of "by rejecting the label you become separate from the label". Which is not really true since, you can't control your attachment to the label. You're the labelee not the labeler.

 

5. I'm... not quite sure that's comparable. Regardless of the subcategory, the person is still black. I could be wrong here, but "brony" (for the group of people I've selected [acquaintances and friends]) is just divided into "brony that considers themself a brony" and "brony that does not consider themself a brony". But that's something I'm not quite sure would be the correct division.

 

6. I really meant this in a mechanistic sense. "You" went from "friend who does not watch MLP" to "friend who does watch MLP" nothing more really. (unless they're assholes.)

 

7. I can't think of a more exact way to put it.

 

8. I'm not upset that they won't use the label for themselves. I'm upset that they are upset that the label is being applied to them by others. It's avoidance. And annoying.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Sekhayet

[Guest]

 

 

1. That might explain a few things. Everyone I know is well versed in internet memes and groups. We're both under a selection bias then.

 

Which means you can not assert your point as fact as much as you claim I can not assert mine. Mine is that there is not enough conclusive evidence to suggest the idea that people are getting up in arms over being called a brony. Instead more evidence seems to point to them just casually correcting people. Hardly a call to battle.

 

 

 

2. If that were true, MSNBC wouldn't be continuing to cry about Bridgegate. Everyone knows about it. They're reporting for ratings, not to inform people about anything (coooooompletely different topic)

 

As much as the news is to entertain, there are still a vast majority of people who do not know what bronies are. I don't think you are prepared to argue otherwise, because there is no way you could have definitive evidence that suggests bronies are vastly known by even a majority of the population.

 

 

 

4. Have you read the last few pages of the thread? Or any of the IRC discussions that have occurred so. many. times. over this issue? What you actually said is something along the lines of "by rejecting the label you become separate from the label". Which is not really true since, you can't control your attachment to the label. You're the labelee not the labeler.

 

You just reinforced my argument. Please recall my point: bronies are getting upset over the lack of use of the term by casual fans. This just reinforces that. I did not say that rejecting the label makes you separate from the label, I merely stated that it is a self given label and just because people can try to place it upon you does not make it a correct label. If I label you as a troll, that doesn't necessarily make it true now does it? I am merely saying that people can dispute labels that they feel are incorrect and the ones placing the labels are not inherently correct.

 

 

 

5. I'm... not quite sure that's comparable. Regardless of the subcategory, the person is still black. I could be wrong here, but "brony" (for the group of people I've selected [acquaintances and friends]) is just divided into "brony that considers themself a brony" and "brony that does not consider themself a brony". But that's something I'm not quite sure would be the correct division.

 

It is very comparable because we disputing the point of someone giving you a label does not make the label true. Anyone can stick any label on any person, but that doesn't inherently make it correct no matter how many people agree with it. A million people can agree against one person disagreeing, but that one person can still be right. Also isn't that a bit of loaded language?

 

"brony that does not consider themself a brony."

 

Seems like you're assuming the consequent here. You're creating a no-escape argument.

 

 

 

8. I'm not upset that they won't use the label for themselves. I'm upset that they are upset that the label is being applied to them by others. It's avoidance. And annoying.

 

That's the problem though. They aren't upset. I'm not upset. If someone asks if I am a brony I simply tell them no. If they choose to believe otherwise, well they are wrong and I just accept they are wrong and move on. What the problem is, is that bronies can't seem to accept that. They feel the need to force casual fans to accept the term "brony". This entire "issue" could be avoided if bronies merely minded their own business and not tried to police what terms people use upon themselves. As far as I can see, casual fans are not making petitions or anything to stop people from calling them bronies, and I seldom see casual fans flip their shit when someone calls them a brony.

 

I have however seen bronies lose their shit when people say they aren't a brony. I see it quite frequently.

 

I think you should re-consider your stance here because when you look at it deeper, you start to realize that the problem is not that the casual fans are "rejecting" the title, it's how bronies are handling that rejection.

[Sekhayet 253]

Which means you can not assert your point as fact as much as you claim I can not assert mine. Mine is that there is not enough conclusive evidence to suggest the idea that people are getting up in arms over being called a brony. Instead more evidence seems to point to them just casually correcting people. Hardly a call to battle.

 

1

 

 

As much as the news is to entertain, there are still a vast majority of people who do not know what bronies are. I don't think you are prepared to argue otherwise, because there is no way you could have definitive evidence that suggests bronies are vastly known by even a majority of the population.

 

2

 

 

You just reinforced my argument. Please recall my point: bronies are getting upset over the lack of use of the term by casual fans. This just reinforces that. I did not say that rejecting the label makes you separate from the label, I merely stated that it is a self given label and just because people can try to place it upon you does not make it a correct label. If I label you as a troll, that doesn't necessarily make it true now does it? I am merely saying that people can dispute labels that they feel are incorrect and the ones placing the labels are not inherently correct.

 

3

 

 

It is very comparable because we disputing the point of someone giving you a label does not make the label true. Anyone can stick any label on any person, but that doesn't inherently make it correct no matter how many people agree with it. A million people can agree against one person disagreeing, but that one person can still be right. Also isn't that a bit of loaded language?

 

"brony that does not consider themself a brony."

 

Seems like you're assuming the consequent here. You're creating a no-escape argument.

 

4

 

 

That's the problem though. They aren't upset. I'm not upset. If someone asks if I am a brony I simply tell them no. If they choose to believe otherwise, well they are wrong and I just accept they are wrong and move on. What the problem is, is that bronies can't seem to accept that. They feel the need to force casual fans to accept the term "brony". This entire "issue" could be avoided if bronies merely minded their own business and not tried to police what terms people use upon themselves. As far as I can see, casual fans are not making petitions or anything to stop people from calling them bronies, and I seldom see casual fans flip their shit when someone calls them a brony.

 

I have however seen bronies lose their shit when people say they aren't a brony. I see it quite frequently.

 

I think you should re-consider your stance here because when you look at it deeper, you start to realize that the problem is not that the casual fans are "rejecting" the title, it's how bronies are handling that rejection.

 

5

 

1. Yours is actually "I don't see this in the population I'm using to illustrate my point of view." If we were going to do this properly, we'd have to look up- I don't know, poll results over a diverse population or something. The only population I have access to is college students and internet groups- both know about MLP and bronies. I am curious what population of people you're considering, though.

 

2. If that's what you're actually saying, then why bring up news media at all? If they aren't even correlated to your point that people don't know about them then what was the point of saying that they're trying to enlighten people (if they haven't?).

 

3. I could be completely off here, but I thought the term came about from /b/tards calling people who liked MLP this term. And then the term was co-opted into the community and embraced by /MLP/.

 

4. Mmm... it's more the question of what's the referent and what's the quotation. Is "brony" applied to the qualities of [likes MLP, participates in the community, ~speaking of G1, etc] or is it the other way around. One way is going to lead to the ability to correct "brony" to whatever someone wants and the other leads to "brony" being the inherent quality of the description. Hence why I'm not quite sure about the divisions. They would imply different things. (This is also exactly like you were saying before and over-thinking. I know.)

 

Anyway, onto the language- it's intentionally that way. The labeler has that referent in their head, not the labelee. I never said that the labeler had a perfectly consistent and explicit way of dividing people- hence the recursion.

 

5. I suppose I can partially concede that. I say partially because it's kind of... off?... when a community of people has an internal division that says they're in the community but simultaneously rejects that the community applies to them. I can see the whole point of "just leave it alone" but it's... off... It's like someone that says they love their country but then doesn't even sing their countries anthem because they think it's insulting or something.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

ITT: People on a webiste called the "brony forums" saying that they are not bronies. 

also ITT: people complaining that a fandom has a bad name on the internet. Everything has a bad name on the internet. 

 

And to reply to the OP: No, it can't really "degrade" because the name was started as a joke back on /co/ anyway, the fandom is more alive then ever before, so although it may seem the almost mocking name we have bestowed upon ourselves is degrading in nature now, it does not matter, as the fandom itself is more alive then ever. 

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

1

 

5. I suppose I can partially concede that. I say partially because it's kind of... off?... when a community of people has an internal division that says they're in the community but simultaneously rejects that the community applies to them. I can see the whole point of "just leave it alone" but it's... off... It's like someone that says they love their country but then doesn't even sing their countries anthem because they think it's insulting or something.

 

Those are the people that make scratch my head. I can understand if someone wants to walk away all together, but then you have people like the growing vocal part of /MLP/ that are still bronies in every sense of the word, but won't actually call themselves bronies. It's kind of a weird "yes we are, but we arn't" paradox like you get when comparing Catholicism to Christianity. 

Edited March 13, 2014 by Shoboni

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Those are the people that make scratch my head. I can understand in someone wants to walk away all together, but them you have people like the growing vocal part of /MLP/ that are still bronies in every sense of the word, but won't actually call themselves bronies. It's kind of a weird "yes we are, but we arn't" paradox like you get when comparing Catholicism to Christianity. 

No, its just yet another living example of "cognitive dissidence", aka doublethink.

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

No, its just yet another living example of "cognitive dissidence", aka doublethink.

 

I don't know if you would really call it that.

 

Granted, I HAVE experienced that when realizing I almost stood on the wrong side of a line on a fandom issue.  

[Fhaolan 4,483]

It's kind of a weird "yes we are, but we arn't" paradox like you get when comparing Catholicism to Christianity.

Actually I can make some sense of that, using that example. It's not really a paradox, but a problem of conflicting definitions.

 

If you define Catholicism as 'a sect of Christianity', as most do, you'll run into the problem.

 

If however, you define Catholicism as a religion that adopt most, but not all, tenants usually marked as Christian, plus several additional tenants besides; now you can have a person who follows those *additional* tenants claim to be Catholic, and as long as that person is not following the nominally Christian tenants they can also claim to not be Christian. Of course, if you have to follow all the tenants of the religion in order to call yourself Catholic, then there's a problem, but it's a rare Catholic that manages to follow *all* of the tenants.

 

Basically, instead of dealing with a subset, you're dealing with a set difference.

 

In the case of bronies, you have the conflicting definitions of 'A fan of My Little Pony', 'A fan of My Little Pony Generation 4', 'A fan of the My Little Pony G4 cartoon' (in order to leave out the comics, toys, etc.), 'A fan of My Little Pony G4 fan-produced work', so on and so forth. These various definitions have intersection points with each other, but they are *not* all inclusive. And there isn't even a universal intersection point of 'Likes the G4 cartoon,' as there are several 'Bronies' who's only interest is the fan-produced music and art, and have no interest at all in watching the cartoon, no matter which season.

 

And for a more personal example, while I'm aware this fandom germinated in 4chan, that has no relevance to me at all. I'm not a fan of MLP due to 4chan in any way, as my interest in this franchise predates the *existence* of 4chan. I have no interest in 4chan, and have no intention of doing more than cursory inspection of that venue. So by calling myself a Brony, it doesn't mean I am embracing the culture of 4chan and those bronies who inhabit it.

[Windseeker 546]

5. I suppose I can partially concede that. I say partially because it's kind of... off?... when a community of people has an internal division that says they're in the community but simultaneously rejects that the community applies to them. I can see the whole point of "just leave it alone" but it's... off... It's like someone that says they love their country but then doesn't even sing their countries anthem because they think it's insulting or something.

 

8. I'm not upset that they won't use the label for themselves. I'm upset that they are upset that the label is being applied to them by others. It's avoidance. And annoying.

Well said, Sekha, well said.

 

No matter how much one applies logic to denial of the label, it will always be used against them regardless due to over-generalization of public opinion on Bronydom.

[LordDiscord 289]

The title has so many negative connotations that I just really do not wish to be associated with it. I prefer to say I'm an MLP fan as most people immediately believe that all bronies are:

• Cloppers
• Fedora Wearers
• Neckbeards
• Basement Dwellers
• Overly Obsessed With MLP
• Militant Atheists

I'd rather people just think that I'm a weirdo who enjoys a children's TV show than any of the above.

I understand what you are saying but, it is very likely you would still be classified as one even if you don't consider yourself one as that is what many people outside of the fandom know fans as. And they only believe this because we let them, instead of trying to correct their accusations, we let the bad people within our community define our title to the point that the outside sees us as one of the following that you described. I just don't see it fare for the people (like myself) who do use the title to continuously have to compete with people who where the title but causes drama and nothing is done about it. 

Edited March 13, 2014 by LordDiscord

[Cloud Runner 26]

I'm proud to be a brony and I've learned that anyone who judges people for what they like, aren't the sharpest tool in the shed 

The title has so many negative connotations that I just really do not wish to be associated with it. I prefer to say I'm an MLP fan as most people immediately believe that all bronies are:

• Cloppers
• Fedora Wearers
• Neckbeards
• Basement Dwellers
• Overly Obsessed With MLP
• Militant Atheists

I'd rather people just think that I'm a weirdo who enjoys a children's TV show than any of the above.

every group has negative stereotypes, as long as I know they aren't true, I could give less than a shit of what other people think of me

[LordDiscord 289]

Really? Because most people I meet don't know what the word "brony" means.

 

 

 

 

I'm not avoiding the question. I simply say I am not a brony, and they just nod and go "ah". No further comments are usually made. People don't care as much as you think they do.

 

 

 

 

Actually that's not true. A majority of people still don't know what bronies are, that's why there are news stories in the first place. The association is made only by bronies it seems.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps you should word yourself more carefully if you do not wish for misinterpretations.

 

 

 

 

And? What's your point? That's not being contested. I am merely saying that if you do not use the label you're not wrong to do so. You can simply say "nah" and that's the end of it. You're acting like people are up in arms and going on giant campaigns to stop people from calling them bronies when in reality this is what is happening:

 

Person A: You like MLP?

Person B: It's alright.

Person A: You a brony?

Person B: Nah.

Person A: Ah, okay.

 

You're acting like there is this huge resistance when in reality the only people trying to associate the title forcefully are the ones who don themselves with it who seem to feel some form of personal rejection when others choose not to.

 

 

 

 

 

Actually that would be bronies who take offense to people not calling themselves bronies. As I just stated, no one is acting like they are being injusticed, they just are kindly informing people they are mistaken.

 

If someone says you're African American and you say "actually I'm from Jamaica" are you on some kind of tirade because you correct them? No, because the conversation usually ends there. You're merely correcting a minor inaccuracy.

 

 

 

 

I really want to know who you're hanging out with. No one I knew suddenly changed their opinion of me based on a TV show. XD

 

 

 

 

I did not state that, I said the two go hand in hand. Your logical fallacies come from... Well logical fallacies. XD

 

 

 

 

I suppose that could also be true, however I don't think anyone can deny that when you get angry, your argument generally can get sloppy because you are not being as careful.

 

Essentially I think you're thinking farther into it than it needs to be thought. You seem to have this impression that people are going on some crusade about a label being used when they are actually just saying "oh, nah" and moving on. You're acting like they are hung up on that fact when in reality the only ones hung up on it are the ones who are upset that they are not using the label. I have never met a non-brony/non-MLP fan that insisted someone was a brony and when they told them no continued to insist it. I am doubting how frequent such an occurrence happens.

 

I am sorry that you may have run into people like that, but ultimately I am not a brony. You can choose to believe I am, but you would be incorrect. You're entitled to be incorrect though.

Ok I never meant for this thread to turn into some flame war between '' whether you willing use the title'' or '' have it shoved down your throat'' I was merely wondering if the title is becoming something that someone would immediately dismiss, not because they don't like using titles but because they perceive the entire fandom as one of the many stereotypes that people on the outside perceive us as and don't want to be labeled as such. 

[Guest]

 

 

1. Yours is actually "I don't see this in the population I'm using to illustrate my point of view." If we were going to do this properly, we'd have to look up- I don't know, poll results over a diverse population or something. The only population I have access to is college students and internet groups- both know about MLP and bronies. I am curious what population of people you're considering, though.

 

College students and internet groups generally have a more informed idea on sub-cultures like this. Comes with the territory. I am mostly referring to everyone in general: co-workers in their 30s, people who don't use the computer beyond Facebook, family members, jocks, etc. A lot of people from different walks of life have no idea what bronies are. I actually got asked 4 times at work from people in their 20s what a brony was.

 

 

 

2. If that's what you're actually saying, then why bring up news media at all? If they aren't even correlated to your point that people don't know about them then what was the point of saying that they're trying to enlighten people (if they haven't?).

 

I didn't actually, you did. You brought up the news.

 

 

 

3. I could be completely off here, but I thought the term came about from /b/tards calling people who liked MLP this term. And then the term was co-opted into the community and embraced by /MLP/.

 

What does that have to do with anything?

 

 

 

ITT: People on a webiste called the "brony forums" saying that they are not bronies. 

 

Actually it's called MLPForums.

 

 

 

5. I suppose I can partially concede that. I say partially because it's kind of... off?... when a community of people has an internal division that says they're in the community but simultaneously rejects that the community applies to them. I can see the whole point of "just leave it alone" but it's... off... It's like someone that says they love their country but then doesn't even sing their countries anthem because they think it's insulting or something.

 

Why does it bother you though? Will anyone really feel better if casual fans start calling themselves bronies? Will it really change anything or improve anything? 

[Captain Brony (MG11) 218]

The term Brony itself is very ambiguous and has no other definite meaning aside from: "A fan of MLP: FiM."

Even with our Mantra it doesn't mean a group is going to follow it. (Similar to Christians and the bible)

Think of the term Brony as how you'd think of the term "American."

Everyone has their different interpretation of what an American is but no description is definite and there is not 1 type of American.

Every American is different and follows different ideas, just as any Brony is and does.

 

The title doesn't make the fan, nor does the fan make the title.

The best we can do as part of this community is to be the better example, be the better percent, be the better fan.

Be the better Brony.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Captain Brony (MG11)

[LordDiscord 289]

The term Brony itself is very ambiguous and has no other definite meaning aside from: "A fan of MLP: FiM."

Even with our Mantra it doesn't mean a group is going to follow it. (Similar to Christians and the bible)

Think of the term Brony as how you'd think of the term "American."

Everyone has their different interpretation of what an American is but no description is definite and there is not 1 type of American.

Every American is a different and follows different ideas, just as any Brony is and does.

 

The title doesn't make the fan, nor does the fan make the title.

The best we can do as part of this community is to be the better example, be the better percent, be the better fan.

Be the better Brony.

I agree, we should be the best we can be.

[FNGRpony 658]

Um i'm not sure it ever had some noble lineage to it.  in fact I'd wager it didn't.

 

I'd like to blame jessie wood, and digi bro for smearing it up and down,

but the blame squarely lies with alot of us.

 

You have to remember bronies at least in part came out of 4 chan.

This was never a pure thing.

I would be kind enough to call it a noble experiment.

 

And alot of us are well intentioned.

But frustration and related has seeped into said noble experiment.

 

If the term brony feels tarnished, reality happened.

 

Nothing more, nothing less.

[RockinRarity 1,605]

I'm proud to be a brony and I've learned that anyone who judges people for what they like, aren't the sharpest tool in the shed 

every group has negative stereotypes, as long as I know they aren't true, I could give less than a shit of what other people think of me

 

I completely agree with your first point. People who let their initial judgments or let the negative opinions of another group completely shut them off from learning more about them, generally, are judgmental and self-centered, at least in some way. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are automatically all horrible people - it just means that they should probably grow in empathy and understanding.

 

The second part, though, isn't about so much whether or not the stereotypes are true. After all, there are legit reasons that stereotypes exist in the first place. In fact, a lot of the time, stereotypes allow us to see something and move on with life rather quickly. So in some ways, it doesn't really matter if a person who learned about bronies learns about them in a negative light as a stereotype as long as they don't have to deal with bronies in person or if they do not have relationships with bronies.

 

The thing is that there are bronies who do exhibit those negative stereotypes. The list given by MLPForums Phanatic could easily be cherry-picked by many of our own forum members (the what's everypony's religion thread... makes me feel a little bit alone not being an atheist, lol). It's not that having only one or two of those traits is bad (depends on what they are and how people perceive them), but it does make people reluctant to see bronies in a positive light if they have ever experienced a brony who portrays these stereotypes in a negative way. It only takes one or two, in many cases.

 

It's not so much that these stereotypes are untrue - it is that people are unwilling, for one reason or another, to see bronies beyond what the stereotype tells us that we are like.

 

Good people who call themselves bronies have the ability to shatter people's perceptions of bronies by just talking to people and being honest with them.

Edited March 15, 2014 by RockinRarity