IridscentNionios 1,420 May 24, 2014 Share May 24, 2014 (edited) If Discord wanted to, he could easily fix any problem the Mane 6 finds themselves stuck in, heck he could have taken down Tirek, had he not accepted Tireks offer. Like Discord, the elements were needed to defeat Nightmare Moon and turn her back into Princess Luna, there for, Twilight and the others had to fight her because they were the ones that could reactivate the elements, Celestia nor Luna still had control over them. Discord also was only able to be defeated by the elements (pre-Tirek) and without that protection of the Elements, Celestia was powerless against him. Chrysalis over powered Celestia and I believe that story convenience was a contributing factor as to why ''Princess Luna'' wasn't present, had she been they both would have defeated Chrysalis instead of Shining and Cadence and the moral they were going for would have been made pointless. Celestia, Luna and Cadence were ''POWERLESS'' to stop Tirek, also with Discord by Tireks side it would have been impossible to stop Tirek from stealing their power. You believe they are just lazy ''useless'' characters without thinking that there are ''reasons'' why the show focuses more on Twilight and her friends rather than have Discord ,Celestia and friends do everything for Twilight.Yet with Discord's power Tirek was on a stalemate with Twilight. What happened with NMM tho? Why did Celestia lose her connection with the elements in the first place? Why did she abandon the castle and the elements? Why not just have Luna fight and fail against Chrysalis like Celestia? Does everything have to be plot convinience for Twilight to act? Cause i am getting that vibe a lot. They aren't useless... They just... Don't act... It's hard for me to understand why i have to watch the Princesses fail each time... It's hard for me to believe they are powerful or are trying to help when they mostly sit lazyly on their thrones! What do they even do at besides nod and smile? And i don't mean raise the sun and moon. Can't they at least say they are busy fighting somewhere else? Like they did at Trixie? Where apparently Luna was also absent. Just... DO SOMETHING! Edited May 24, 2014 by nioniosbbbb OCs Thorough list of all of them here. FimFiction Profile Deviant Art ((All OC pictures in here)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordDiscord 289 May 24, 2014 Share May 24, 2014 Yet with Discord's power Tirek was on a stalemate with Twilight. What happened with NMM tho? Why did Celestia lose her connection with the elements in the first place? Why did she abandon the castle and the elements? Why not just have Luna fight and fail against Chrysalis like Celestia? Does everything have to be plot convinience for Twilight to act? Cause i am getting that vibe a lot. They aren't useless... They just... Don't act... It's hard for me to understand why i have to watch the Princesses fail each time... It's hard for me to believe they are powerful or are trying to help when they mostly sit lazyly on their thrones! What do they even do at besides nod and smile? And i don't mean raise the sun and moon. Can't they at least say they are busy fighting somewhere else? Like they did at Trixie? Where apparently Luna was also absent. Just... DO SOMETHING! That part I agree I do not understand, my understanding is that the power that Tirek absorbs is weaker inside him that it is the host, either that or he can't use the magic to its full potiential. Some of that history we do not know, perhaps when Luna became NMM, she abandoned her virtues that allowed her to use the elements which broke her connection, and over time sense half of the elements were lost because of Luna, the other have probably could no longer stay active and turned to stone, so Celestia left them their as protection because she figured no pony would venture to a abandoned castle in the middle of the most dangerous place in Equestia. Yes unfortunately allot of the stories arch's have to rely on ''plot convenience'' otherwise the characters would either come off weaker then they should, (which would confuse allot of people) or they would solve the problem to quickly, leaving no time for Twilight and her friends to learn any lesson as well as display the episodes moral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IridscentNionios 1,420 May 24, 2014 Share May 24, 2014 That part I agree I do not understand, my understanding is that the power that Tirek absorbs is weaker inside him that it is the host, either that or he can't use the magic to its full potiential. Some of that history we do not know, perhaps when Luna became NMM, she abandoned her virtues that allowed her to use the elements which broke her connection, and over time sense half of the elements were lost because of Luna, the other have probably could no longer stay active and turned to stone, so Celestia left them their as protection because she figured no pony would venture to a abandoned castle in the middle of the most dangerous place in Equestia. Yes unfortunately allot of the stories arch's have to rely on ''plot convenience'' otherwise the characters would either come off weaker then they should, (which would confuse allot of people) or they would solve the problem to quickly, leaving no time for Twilight and her friends to learn any lesson as well as display the episodes moral.What you call plot convinience i sometimes call weak writting... OCs Thorough list of all of them here. FimFiction Profile Deviant Art ((All OC pictures in here)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordDiscord 289 May 24, 2014 Share May 24, 2014 What you call plot convinience i sometimes call weak writting... Then that is a problem with DHX, not Discord, Celestia or Luna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Bleck 19,376 May 24, 2014 Share May 24, 2014 Because he got an Ironic Echo of what he himself did to Fluttershy & co. He was far from a Karma Houdini. By Emerald.↑ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IridscentNionios 1,420 May 24, 2014 Share May 24, 2014 Then that is a problem with DHX, not Discord, Celestia or Luna.Yes but don't demand me to say that what Discord Luna and Celestia do is perfectly justified and awesome and fine. Because it isn't... Somehow this reminds me of Doctors trying to teach new students how to operate a heart. I understand the need to teach the new doctors how to save a person but i don't exactly feel good about it. However the scope and the consequences of failure are not the same as medicine here. Twilight in the two-partners bears the shifted responsibility of an entire world yet it never feels overwhelming for her. She never feels the need to ask "Why me?" she doesn't defy the defacto hero-ification of herself yet whenever she gets confronted for her Princesshood she bears some stress. That all comes in contradiction with the last episode where she seeks the confirmation that she is here to contribute something. All the while she doesn't see what AJ points out to their contribution as Elements of Harmony, she never sees that in the last years she has been that special little snowflake that fillies in Twilight time yammer on about all time... She doesn't see that she has somewhat overshadowed her own mentor. Hell she doesn't even worry about the Kingdom she was afraid to get but is now getting! My point is this... Twilight most of the time fails to grasp what she is at risk losing. She doesn't appreciate the books she has that she is willing to exchange for very little. In the Nightmare Moon arc she doesn't save the world because of friendship she does it because she had a fight about it with her mentor. She does learn friendship through it though. In Discord, Sombra, Lesson Zero we see Twilight more worked up about satisfying her mentor forgetting friendship only to learn about it in the way. In s4 finale it's the same thing... She wants once again to reach her mentor that she has clearly done more than in the last few years... I am getting soon to the point... She doesn't grasp that while she is a part of this world she's not the sole responsible of it. This isn't a game of chance where the other Princesses play as Twilight in a Dungeons and Dragons game hoping to achieve a sufficient roll to defeat the villain hoping Twilight will learn a lesson of friendship along the way... Discord is not the Game/Dungeon Master! It is the fate of a world! If Twilight fails with or without friendship it might very well be all over for Equestria... And Twilight doesn't feel it or protest about it! Discord falling for Tirek was one of the same things caused by being unable to grasp the importance of maintaining friendship with Discord by Twilight. Although she mentions friendship over and over in most two-parters she fails to grasp the right meaning of friendship each time... Which causes her and Discord to fail. That's why Discord is forgiven... Because i think Twilight subconsciously realizes that them both failing in friendships led to this situation. However i don't think she realizes she is much more than a simple Princess or the contribution she has made all this time and that being a Princess means she is the protector of the world... And likewise Discord doesn't or he doesn't take it seriously enough. The whole Discord and Tirek mess was a failure from the Princesses to make Twilight see what her role was. Through all their wisdom at teaching friendship the leaders of Equestria forget friendship and it's importance at the most difficult times. They still have a lot to learn... 1 OCs Thorough list of all of them here. FimFiction Profile Deviant Art ((All OC pictures in here)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordDiscord 289 May 24, 2014 Share May 24, 2014 Yes but don't demand me to say that what Discord Luna and Celestia do is perfectly justified and awesome and fine. Because it isn't... Somehow this reminds me of Doctors trying to teach new students how to operate a heart. I understand the need to teach the new doctors how to save a person but i don't exactly feel good about it. However the scope and the consequences of failure are not the same as medicine here. Twilight in the two-partners bears the shifted responsibility of an entire world yet it never feels overwhelming for her. She never feels the need to ask "Why me?" she doesn't defy the defacto hero-ification of herself yet whenever she gets confronted for her Princesshood she bears some stress. That all comes in contradiction with the last episode where she seeks the confirmation that she is here to contribute something. All the while she doesn't see what AJ points out to their contribution as Elements of Harmony, she never sees that in the last years she has been that special little snowflake that fillies in Twilight time yammer on about all time... She doesn't see that she has somewhat overshadowed her own mentor. Hell she doesn't even worry about the Kingdom she was afraid to get but is now getting! My point is this... Twilight most of the time fails to grasp what she is at risk losing. She doesn't appreciate the books she has that she is willing to exchange for very little. In the Nightmare Moon arc she doesn't save the world because of friendship she does it because she had a fight about it with her mentor. She does learn friendship through it though. In Discord, Sombra, Lesson Zero we see Twilight more worked up about satisfying her mentor forgetting friendship only to learn about it in the way. In s4 finale it's the same thing... She wants once again to reach her mentor that she has clearly done more than in the last few years... I am getting soon to the point... She doesn't grasp that while she is a part of this world she's not the sole responsible of it. This isn't a game of chance where the other Princesses play as Twilight in a Dungeons and Dragons game hoping to achieve a sufficient roll to defeat the villain hoping Twilight will learn a lesson of friendship along the way... Discord is not the Game/Dungeon Master! It is the fate of a world! If Twilight fails with or without friendship it might very well be all over for Equestria... And Twilight doesn't feel it or protest about it! Discord falling for Tirek was one of the same things caused by being unable to grasp the importance of maintaining friendship with Discord by Twilight. Although she mentions friendship over and over in most two-parters she fails to grasp the right meaning of friendship each time... Which causes her and Discord to fail. That's why Discord is forgiven... Because i think Twilight subconsciously realizes that them both failing in friendships led to this situation. However i don't think she realizes she is much more than a simple Princess or the contribution she has made all this time and that being a Princess means she is the protector of the world... And likewise Discord doesn't or he doesn't take it seriously enough. The whole Discord and Tirek mess was a failure from the Princesses to make Twilight see what her role was. Through all their wisdom at teaching friendship the leaders of Equestria forget friendship and it's importance at the most difficult times. They still have a lot to learn... Its starting to sound that your problem doesn't lie with Celestia, Luna or Discord, but Twilight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IridscentNionios 1,420 May 24, 2014 Share May 24, 2014 (edited) Its starting to sound that your problem doesn't lie with Celestia, Luna or Discord, but Twilight.No side is innocent in this one... If Celestia needs Twilight to learn about friendship and teach her about it but already knows since she was wielding the elements then why does she need friendship reports? Aren't they kinda needless to her? Why didn't Discord get the same attention in the matter of being taught friendship? Or is it because he knew it but didn't appreciate it? I am not blaming Twilight solely for this... I am simply trying to view this from her perspective as does this episode... Two parters should really be less Twilight-centric. No wonder she gets accused for being a Mary Sue... I kinda understand a certain person i know on the net who bears an avid hate for her. Edited May 24, 2014 by nioniosbbbb 1 OCs Thorough list of all of them here. FimFiction Profile Deviant Art ((All OC pictures in here)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeric 46,852 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 (edited) Yes but don't demand me to say that what Discord Luna and Celestia do is perfectly justified and awesome and fine. Because it isn't... Somehow this reminds me of Doctors trying to teach new students how to operate a heart. I understand the need to teach the new doctors how to save a person but i don't exactly feel good about it. However the scope and the consequences of failure are not the same as medicine here. Twilight in the two-partners bears the shifted responsibility of an entire world yet it never feels overwhelming for her. She never feels the need to ask "Why me?" she doesn't defy the defacto hero-ification of herself yet whenever she gets confronted for her Princesshood she bears some stress. That all comes in contradiction with the last episode where she seeks the confirmation that she is here to contribute something. All the while she doesn't see what AJ points out to their contribution as Elements of Harmony, she never sees that in the last years she has been that special little snowflake that fillies in Twilight time yammer on about all time... She doesn't see that she has somewhat overshadowed her own mentor. Hell she doesn't even worry about the Kingdom she was afraid to get but is now getting! My point is this... Twilight most of the time fails to grasp what she is at risk losing. She doesn't appreciate the books she has that she is willing to exchange for very little. In the Nightmare Moon arc she doesn't save the world because of friendship she does it because she had a fight about it with her mentor. She does learn friendship through it though. In Discord, Sombra, Lesson Zero we see Twilight more worked up about satisfying her mentor forgetting friendship only to learn about it in the way. In s4 finale it's the same thing... She wants once again to reach her mentor that she has clearly done more than in the last few years... I am getting soon to the point... She doesn't grasp that while she is a part of this world she's not the sole responsible of it. This isn't a game of chance where the other Princesses play as Twilight in a Dungeons and Dragons game hoping to achieve a sufficient roll to defeat the villain hoping Twilight will learn a lesson of friendship along the way... Discord is not the Game/Dungeon Master! It is the fate of a world! If Twilight fails with or without friendship it might very well be all over for Equestria... And Twilight doesn't feel it or protest about it! Discord falling for Tirek was one of the same things caused by being unable to grasp the importance of maintaining friendship with Discord by Twilight. Although she mentions friendship over and over in most two-parters she fails to grasp the right meaning of friendship each time... Which causes her and Discord to fail. That's why Discord is forgiven... Because i think Twilight subconsciously realizes that them both failing in friendships led to this situation. However i don't think she realizes she is much more than a simple Princess or the contribution she has made all this time and that being a Princess means she is the protector of the world... And likewise Discord doesn't or he doesn't take it seriously enough. The whole Discord and Tirek mess was a failure from the Princesses to make Twilight see what her role was. Through all their wisdom at teaching friendship the leaders of Equestria forget friendship and it's importance at the most difficult times. They still have a lot to learn... Dahl, CS Lewis, Tolkien, and Rowling would disagree. Adults in positions of power = dumb/dangerous It's one of the most common subtexts in YA and children's fiction. MLP does the same thing. I honestly thought this was common knowledge. At least that is how I take Celestia and Luna's failures. O-o Edited May 25, 2014 by Jeric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IridscentNionios 1,420 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 (edited) Dahl, CS Lewis, Tolkien, and Rowling would disagree. Adults in positions of power = dumb/dangerous It's one of the most common subtexts in YA and children's fiction. MLP does the same thing. I honestly thought this was common knowledge. At least that is how I take Celestia and Luna's failures. O-o Yes while constantly shifting the responsibilities to future generations is very wise indeed! Can't they find middle ground? For your information i have read the Harry Potter books and Lord of the rings. In Lord of the rings Frodo didn't fight alone... Harry had help from his friends, the Order, the magician community! Twilight seems to be taking the whole world alone on her shoulders in the two parters... Thats nothing like lotr or hp. And i am feeling a bit offended by your "common knowledge" comment. Edited May 25, 2014 by nioniosbbbb OCs Thorough list of all of them here. FimFiction Profile Deviant Art ((All OC pictures in here)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeric 46,852 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 Yes while constantly shifting the responsibilities to future generations is very wise indeed! Can't they find middle ground? For your information i have read the Harry Potter books and Lord of the rings. In Lord of the rings Frodo didn't fight alone... Harry had help from his friends, the Order, the magician community! Twilight seems to be taking the whole world alone on her shoulders in the two parters... Thats nothing like lotr or hp. And i am feeling a bit offended by your "common knowledge" comment. ? No offense intetended, I meant that to mean that maybe I am reading to far into the thematic beats that the story is telling. I binged on the show to catch up so that was just a common thread that I picked up on. It was certainly not meant to be a knock against you ... at all. The issues you brought up just never bothered me because I was viewing them from a different filter and simply accepted that the show would eventually address the moral of how your role model is not perfect. That is the entire theme in Order of the Phoenix, but you are right that Harry is written as annoyed with the constant isolation he is starting to feel. However by Deathly Hallows his journey leads him feel that it always rests on him. But the difference between Twilight, Frodo, and Harry is that how they are are introduced; Harry is a newcomer to a strange world and knows nothing of the world he is trust on. While there are similarities, the main difference is that Harry doesn't seek prominance and acceptance. Twilight does. Pride. Frodo is just plain reluctant. Both eventually come to the view that it has to be them. It is their burden to bear. Twilight seems to have started the Hero's Journey with that as her mindset from go. She felt she had to do it alone. This gets deconstructed by realizing she needs to rely on friends, and then ... leads her to lament that she has no purpose in the finale ... and Huh? Well ... Ok. As I typed those final few sentences I had a moment where I realized that even the angle I was taking actually proved your point. I got nothing. I Still blame Celestia and see her as mistake prone adult giving bad advice that Twilight needs to learn to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBaby 660 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 No they are not... They are ponies with that virtue in them. They just happened to be in the right place the right time to get the elements. Anyone with that virtue could have been the elements. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. They were, are and always will be the spirits of the Elements of Harmony (therefore, the Elements of Harmony), hence why they were able to literally re-create them out of the broken shards that NMM created, including creating a new Element of Magic out of thin air. They wouldn't be able to do this if they weren't. As for why Celestia lost the ability to wield them, it should be obvious to anyone who's watched the show up to now. She lost her connection to them when she banished her sister to the moon. Also it's established that the box holding the Rainbow of Light came from the Tree of Harmony. So the Elements of Harmony not only still exist, but they are still 'connected' to the mane six (I use the term 'connected' loosely here, because as I said before, they ARE the Elements of Harmony). And back to Discord. If they didn't forgive him, that wouldn't have been showing the virtues that make up the Elements, and the box likely wouldn't have opened for them. It's that simple. A Winner Is You!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IridscentNionios 1,420 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 (edited) ? No offense intetended, I meant that to mean that maybe I am reading to far into the thematic beats that the story is telling. I binged on the show to catch up so that was just a common thread that I picked up on. It was certainly not meant to be a knock against you ... at all. The issues you brought up just never bothered me because I was viewing them from a different filter and simply accepted that the show would eventually address the moral of how your role model is not perfect. That is the entire theme in Order of the Phoenix, but you are right that Harry is written as annoyed with the constant isolation he is starting to feel. However by Deathly Hallows his journey leads him feel that it always rests on him. But the difference between Twilight, Frodo, and Harry is that how they are are introduced; Harry is a newcomer to a strange world and knows nothing of the world he is trust on. While there are similarities, the main difference is that Harry doesn't seek prominance and acceptance. Twilight does. Pride. Frodo is just plain reluctant. Both eventually come to the view that it has to be them. It is their burden to bear. Twilight seems to have started the Hero's Journey with that as her mindset from go. She felt she had to do it alone. This gets deconstructed by realizing she needs to rely on friends, and then ... leads her to lament that she has no purpose in the finale ... and Huh? Well ... Ok. As I typed those final few sentences I had a moment where I realized that even the angle I was taking actually proved your point. I got nothing. I Still blame Celestia and see her as mistake prone adult giving bad advice that Twilight needs to learn to ignore. Damn straight i thought of it too at some point. She is far from perfect but she does need to be a bit more active actually doing something like she did with Chrysalis. Not get tossed aside whether it be for plot convinience or incompetence. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. They were, are and always will be the spirits of the Elements of Harmony (therefore, the Elements of Harmony), hence why they were able to literally re-create them out of the broken shards that NMM created, including creating a new Element of Magic out of thin air. They wouldn't be able to do this if they weren't. As for why Celestia lost the ability to wield them, it should be obvious to anyone who's watched the show up to now. She lost her connection to them when she banished her sister to the moon. Also it's established that the box holding the Rainbow of Light came from the Tree of Harmony. So the Elements of Harmony not only still exist, but they are still 'connected' to the mane six (I use the term 'connected' loosely here, because as I said before, they ARE the Elements of Harmony). And back to Discord. If they didn't forgive him, that wouldn't have been showing the virtues that make up the Elements, and the box likely wouldn't have opened for them. It's that simple. Clearly you have been developping a lot of headcanon and while it is interesting it is just that... Your headcanon... No the mane 6 are not spiritual incarnations of the elements... Nobody ever said that. It is possible that due to possesing the virtues relevant to their element the elements as forces responded to them. But still that is also my headcanon and you shouldn't feel obliged to believe it... Also the same goes for the elements. In fact if you view one of Antony C's recent videos he says just that... "Nobody knows since the writers never told us". Fanmade explanations will always be headcanon until otherwise stated. If they "were" the elements of harmony why did they change from being Luna and Celestia... Why did they need 2 ponies at that time? Why didn't they restore Luna at that time? The single fact that the elements were used by two ponies and then only by Celestial disproves your theory about the elements being personified. I do agree that however they are forces and therefore can't be destroyed by simply destroying the artifact. If they were the elements they wouldn't need to look for them in Discord's return. As i said maybe they just responded to their hearts. Again... Headcanon so i cannot say for certain as you seem to do. True... But they didn't know that... So that's not the reason they did it. Twilight-"I meant to do that..." No you didn't... Edited May 25, 2014 by nioniosbbbb OCs Thorough list of all of them here. FimFiction Profile Deviant Art ((All OC pictures in here)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBaby 660 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 (edited) Clearly you have been developping a lot of headcanon and while it is interesting it is just that... Your headcanon... No the mane 6 are not spiritual incarnations of the elements... Nobody ever said that. Twilight says it right in Episode 2 of the series, when she says that they are the spirits of the Elements of Harmony, after NMM destroys them. This isn't headcanon. It's series-canon. This also pretty much addresses the rest of your post as well, since you seem to talk mainly about headcanon, which shouldn't exist in this. The mane six ARE the current Elements of Harmony, and you're told this right in the show. I'll address Celestia and Luna separately, since they were the previous 'wielders' of the Elements (or at the time they WERE the Elements). It's still relevant to the mane six, since these two actually prove my point about the Elements being paramount as to why they forgave Discord. Celestia and Luna were the wielders of the Elements of Harmony originally. Your first question, why not six? Well, nobody said a pony can't represent multiple Elements. The Avatar in Ultima housed all eight Virtues single-handedly (and anyone that's played those games will tell you what a pain in the arse that is). Given what we know in the series, it's very possible (if not almost 100 percent likely) that at the time, Luna and Celestia were the embodiments of multiple Elements at once, especially given the state Equestria was in when they first took the throne. As for Celestia losing the Elements. Well, the reason is because she used them on her own sister and banished her to the moon. This is obvious, because we never hear about any time after that event, but before NMM's return where the Elements are used again. The Elements left Celestia immediately after that event. Why is this relevant? Because the same thing would have happened to the mane six if they hadn't forgiven Discord, in the form of them not getting the Rainbow of Light. Though I do agree that it shouldn't have happened so fast (and probably wouldn't have if there was allowed to be a third part), I can still safely say that this would have been the immediate result. I don't know how else I can explain this to you. At this point, if you don't get it, you're probably not gonna get it, no matter what I say or how I word it. And there isn't much I can really do about that. Edited May 25, 2014 by SBaby A Winner Is You!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordDiscord 289 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 No side is innocent in this one... If Celestia needs Twilight to learn about friendship and teach her about it but already knows since she was wielding the elements then why does she need friendship reports? Aren't they kinda needless to her? Why didn't Discord get the same attention in the matter of being taught friendship? Or is it because he knew it but didn't appreciate it? I am not blaming Twilight solely for this... I am simply trying to view this from her perspective as does this episode... Two parters should really be less Twilight-centric. No wonder she gets accused for being a Mary Sue... I kinda understand a certain person i know on the net who bears an avid hate for her. Twilight only represents ''ONE'' of the ''Elements of Harmony'', which means it is possible that she still doesn't know everything about friendship even though she represents the element of ''magic''. If you payed attention in ''Keep Calm Flutter On'' and ''Princess Twilight Sparkle'' none of the other ponies besides Fluttershy, wanted him there. They treated him like crap every time he showed up regardless if he actually did something or not, they always had a distrust for Discord, that is why when he was betrayed and showed remorse, that they finally saw he was serious about friendship. The show was established around Twilight, that is why she is the main character, for a 2 part episode to feature any other pony in the spotlight other than Twilight, goes against what the story and lore within Equestria is all about. These are meant to be the trials that Twilight faces, not Rainbow Dash, not Pinky Pie, not Discord, ect. Am I saying that this is a good thing? No but this is Hasbro's show, so they get to decide who is going to be the mascot of their toy line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IridscentNionios 1,420 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 (edited) Twilight says it right in Episode 2 of the series, when she says that they are the spirits of the Elements of Harmony, after NMM destroys them. This isn't headcanon. It's series-canon. This also pretty much addresses the rest of your post as well, since you seem to talk mainly about headcanon, which shouldn't exist in this. The mane six ARE the current Elements of Harmony, and you're told this right in the show. I'll address Celestia and Luna separately, since they were the previous 'wielders' of the Elements (or at the time they WERE the Elements). It's still relevant to the mane six, since these two actually prove my point about the Elements being paramount as to why they forgave Discord. Celestia and Luna were the wielders of the Elements of Harmony originally. Your first question, why not six? Well, nobody said a pony can't represent multiple Elements. The Avatar in Ultima housed all eight Virtues single-handedly (and anyone that's played those games will tell you what a pain in the arse that is). Given what we know in the series, it's very possible (if not almost 100 percent likely) that at the time, Luna and Celestia were the embodiments of multiple Elements at once, especially given the state Equestria was in when they first took the throne. As for Celestia losing the Elements. Well, the reason is because she used them on her own sister and banished her to the moon. This is obvious, because we never hear about any time after that event, but before NMM's return where the Elements are used again. The Elements left Celestia immediately after that event. Why is this relevant? Because the same thing would have happened to the mane six if they hadn't forgiven Discord, in the form of them not getting the Rainbow of Light. Though I do agree that it shouldn't have happened so fast (and probably wouldn't have if there was allowed to be a third part), I can still safely say that this would have been the immediate result. I don't know how else I can explain this to you. At this point, if you don't get it, you're probably not gonna get it, no matter what I say or how I word it. And there isn't much I can really do about that. Thats exactly what they are... Wielders... Twilight never said that someone else couldn't wield the elements of Harmony. Twilight said that each of them "represents" an element therefore THEY ARE NOT PERSONIFICATION OF THE ELEMENTS. There could easily be other representatives of the elements should they have chosen to act or should they have been worthier. What is your headcanon though is that the elements lost their connection to Celestia after Nightmare Moon. It isn't stated anywhere... It isn't stated anywhere that the elements thought using them on her sister was bad. It was also never said anywhere that that the elements were left after NMM. It is equally possible that because there was no enemy for them to be used upon they just weren't. However that is our explanation and not what the show gives us... Or this case doesn't. It is possible seeing from the return of harmony that other ponies or dragons could wield the elements as well... Perhaps not with the same effectiveness but that's just theory... And i am afraid it will remain that for a long time. You use the word "obvious" a lot when this is clearly a subjective opinion... So is your theory about Celestia and Luna being disconnected from the elements. Yes if they hadn't forgiven Discord they might not have won but that doesn't mean they knew... Twilight only represents ''ONE'' of the ''Elements of Harmony'', which means it is possible that she still doesn't know everything about friendship even though she represents the element of ''magic''. If you payed attention in ''Keep Calm Flutter On'' and ''Princess Twilight Sparkle'' none of the other ponies besides Fluttershy, wanted him there. They treated him like crap every time he showed up regardless if he actually did something or not, they always had a distrust for Discord, that is why when he was betrayed and showed remorse, that they finally saw he was serious about friendship. The show was established around Twilight, that is why she is the main character, for a 2 part episode to feature any other pony in the spotlight other than Twilight, goes against what the story and lore within Equestria is all about. These are meant to be the trials that Twilight faces, not Rainbow Dash, not Pinky Pie, not Discord, ect. Am I saying that this is a good thing? No but this is Hasbro's show, so they get to decide who is going to be the mascot of their toy line.I am not asking them to focus on someone else but rather the mane 6 as a whole... Since they all are elements and stuff... Besides friendship requires more than 1 person. Edited May 25, 2014 by nioniosbbbb 1 OCs Thorough list of all of them here. FimFiction Profile Deviant Art ((All OC pictures in here)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_alone 1 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 I think that it's juste because Discord, at the end, "helped" Twilight with his necklace, and simply because he was sorry. That's simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IridscentNionios 1,420 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 I think that it's juste because Discord, at the end, "helped" Twilight with his necklace, and simply because he was sorry. That's simple Occam's Razor type of solution? The best kind. OCs Thorough list of all of them here. FimFiction Profile Deviant Art ((All OC pictures in here)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponies N' Stuff 12 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 (edited) Because Hasbro and DHX threw human (in this case, pony) nature out the window and bent the plot in Discord's will so bronies wouldn't hate on the episode for turning discord to stone again. the_alone does have a good case though. So that might be it too. Edited May 25, 2014 by Ponies N' Stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawaii Besu 28,011 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 My headcanon is that Discord said 'no' during the deal with Tirek, and got hypnotized by Tirek to be evil as a result to be his sidekick. And eventually, once Tirek sucked Discord's magic, the hypnotic magic expired, and realizes he's how could that happen to him, he made his mistakes, the night goes on. ( ) I guess Twilight knew Discord was controlled by a hypnotic spell from Tirek, and she, along the Mane 6 forgave him easily. Just my two cents... 1 Count to numbers with 7 digits! CtaM FM: You can always "count" on us when a new pony episode comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Nerd 833 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 I would have forgiven Discord, too. I believe in forgiveness because the past is in the past. What matters is the present. In the past, Discord was mean and careless. Presently, Discord is a loyal sweetheart. He truely understands friendship now, and that is what matters. I actually felt sorry for Discord during season 4. All of the mane 6 (except Fluttershy) were nasty to him instead of being more friendly. Sure, they didn't completly trust him yet, but there's no reason to not try to make him feel at home, because he truly needed friends. Twilight realized this when she told Tirek to free Discord. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostPony750 959 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 Well, it's simple: When Discord got betrayed by Tirek, he got his sentence. So it would be unfair to give him another sentence. He was forgiven because he realized who were its real friends, he won't do this kind of things anymore. Not only it's completly fair, but this is ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordDiscord 289 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 Thats exactly what they are... Wielders... Twilight never said that someone else couldn't wield the elements of Harmony. Twilight said that each of them "represents" an element therefore THEY ARE NOT PERSONIFICATION OF THE ELEMENTS. There could easily be other representatives of the elements should they have chosen to act or should they have been worthier. What is your headcanon though is that the elements lost their connection to Celestia after Nightmare Moon. It isn't stated anywhere... It isn't stated anywhere that the elements thought using them on her sister was bad. It was also never said anywhere that that the elements were left after NMM. It is equally possible that because there was no enemy for them to be used upon they just weren't. However that is our explanation and not what the show gives us... Or this case doesn't. It is possible seeing from the return of harmony that other ponies or dragons could wield the elements as well... Perhaps not with the same effectiveness but that's just theory... And i am afraid it will remain that for a long time. You use the word "obvious" a lot when this is clearly a subjective opinion... So is your theory about Celestia and Luna being disconnected from the elements. Yes if they hadn't forgiven Discord they might not have won but that doesn't mean they knew... I am not asking them to focus on someone else but rather the mane 6 as a whole... Since they all are elements and stuff... Besides friendship requires more than 1 person. They focus on the remainder of the Mane 6 for 22 of the 26 episodes with Twilight being the center focus on the Openers and Finals. They get more than enough focus, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IridscentNionios 1,420 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 (edited) They focus on the remainder of the Mane 6 for 22 of the 26 episodes with Twilight being the center focus on the Openers and Finals. They get more than enough focus,This should have been a team victory... Instead most of the two parter the mane 6 spend it watching Twi. Somehow i fail to see "friendship" here. I would have forgiven Discord, too. I believe in forgiveness because the past is in the past. What matters is the present. In the past, Discord was mean and careless. Presently, Discord is a loyal sweetheart. He truely understands friendship now, and that is what matters. I actually felt sorry for Discord during season 4. All of the mane 6 (except Fluttershy) were nasty to him instead of being more friendly. Sure, they didn't completly trust him yet, but there's no reason to not try to make him feel at home, because he truly needed friends. Twilight realized this when she told Tirek to free Discord. Presently Discord is resentful not a loyal sweetheart. He can be though. Edited May 25, 2014 by nioniosbbbb OCs Thorough list of all of them here. FimFiction Profile Deviant Art ((All OC pictures in here)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordDiscord 289 May 25, 2014 Share May 25, 2014 This should have been a team victory... Instead most of the two parter the mane 6 spend it watching Twi. Somehow i fail to see "friendship" here. Presently Discord is restful not a loyal sweetheart. He can be though. Did Twilight use ''Rainbow Powers'' by herself or with her friends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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