To Those Of You Afraid To Give Critique (Please Sticky, This Is Very Important)

[Frith is Magick 1,471]

When commenting I try to be nice and judge the piece based on where the person's ability seems to be and the level they were aiming for, but at the same time, I try to point out at least one thing that can be improved on. Honest critique is important to development, but being a flat out arse discourages people who may become pretty good with time and practice. I admit, I get royally pissed off when I post a sketch and get an "awesome stuff" post without at least one critique. It was early encouragement that made me want to continue, but it was truth that drove improvement. I know my work is shit, and you don't need to compare me to masters or even people with a few more years of practice, but I do want help, I want to hear tricks and tips from more experienced people and know what to look out for next time.

 

I'm starting to ramble about myself, which I don' like, but the point is that feedback should be helpful, and while encouragement can be helpful, truth is even more so.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Frith is Magick

[Sir Wulfington 276]

When commenting I try to be nice and judge the piece based on where the person's ability seems to be and the level they were aiming for, but at the same time, I try to point out at least one thing that can be improved on. Honest critique is important to development, but being a flat out arse discourages people who may become pretty good with time and practice. I admit, I get royally pissed off when I post a sketch and get an "awesome stuff" post without at least one critique. It was early encouragement that made me want to continue, but it was teuth that drove improvement. I know my work is shit, and you don't need to compare me to masters or even people with a few more years of practice, but I do want help, I want to hear tricks and tips from more experienced people and know what to look out for next time.

 

I'm starting to ramble about myself, which I don' like, but the point is that feedback should be helpful, and while encouragement can be elpful, truth is more so.

 

Advice you say?

 

*COUGH* http://mlpforums.com/topic/99947-so-you-wanna-be-an-artist-eha-tutorial/ *WHEEZE*

[Frith is Magick 1,471]

 

 

Advice you say? *COUGH* http://mlpforums.com...t-eha-tutorial/ *WHEEZE*

So what you're saying is that I should study, get advice, and practice? Holy s**t! This is revolutionary!

 

Sarcasm aside, that is a good post and well worth reading. Thank you for also posting a couple of links, I bookmarked the shading one.

[Sir Wulfington 276]

And as I figured, this thread hasn't stopped the stream of false praise. I'm sure there are people who legitimately can't see the problems in some artwork, simply because they don't study anatomy at all, they just see things, but don't understand how they work, so serious proportional and lighting/shading flaws slip by them unnoticed, but still.

 

Whatever tho, hopefully I got through to some people at least. Just makes me really sad and angry to see artists who seriously need help be potentially held back from improvement by people who are either too ignorant of the flaws or just don't have the guts to say it to the artist.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Sir Wulfington

[Stellafera 3,836]

That said, there is a place for encouragement or praise. It's not inherently bad. Particularly when the praise-giver can pinpoint exactly what parts of the picture they like and why. Giving the artist an indication of what they're doing well is just as important as giving them an indication of what they're doing badly. It's all very well to point out things which need to change, but that advice is meaningless without knowledge of what should stay the same.

 

Word. Not only is praise given this way heartening to the creator, but it is also useful. It's like how it was much more useful when I got back tests from math teachers where they circled which part of the problem I got wrong.

 

That indicates "Hey, this is where you screwed up. Not these parts, these parts are fine. That part. Fix that."

 

Instead of merely "You screwed up."

 

Well, sure, but since I got it incorrect, I clearly don't see which part individually is wrong or how to fix it. If I know where I was right, though, I can understand how to improve.

 

An effective critique is actionable.

[WindShear 543]

I see nothing wrong with being encouraging to an artist. Criticism maybe more helpful to an artists improvement, but if criticism and negative comments are all they receive anytime they post art then they may well end up getting discouraged and stop trying.

 

I know that there are plenty of people out there like me who have no artistic sense. Even if I can tell that there is something wrong with a piece of art, most of the time I cant really tell exactly what the problem is, and in these cases the best criticism I can come up with would be something along the lines of "this sucks" and that is neither helpful nor encouraging to an artist. So I see nothing wrong with those people who cant offer any helpful criticism at least trying to be encouraging to an artist.

[~*bacon princess*~ 278]

I hate critiquing, as i'm always afraid people's feelings might get hurt... I don't want anyone to be sad 

[Stellafera 3,836]

I hate critiquing, as i'm always afraid people's feelings might get hurt... I don't want anyone to be sad 

 

Don't be. I love getting feedback; it's nectar to an artist, or, at least to me. It's nice knowing that somebody took time out of their lives to review something I made. Just turn it back on yourself; wouldn't you like to get feedback? 

[Powderpuff 390]

I have a super hard time giving critiques, because I have an, um...very, very high standard. So I don't give critiques online, and I hate it in school when I'm asked to give advice to someone of an, uh...low skill level. I hate coming across as an arrogant know-it-all, and I'm pretty sure that's exactly how I'd sound if I were to give critiques here. In fact, I generally avoid talking about art here at all...cause when I do, I kinda talk a lot and I'm pretty sure I sound stuck up. Heck, I'm worried this comment is gonna sound stuck up...Hope it doesn't...

 

So yeah, I don't really give critique here. Conversely, I don't get critiques here either. But I'm fine with that, because I don't really post here looking for critiques. I'm lucky enough to have other avenues for that. I mostly just post my stuff here cause I get excited over the nerdy stuff I make and wanna share it with other people who get it

 

But I know there are people here who may only have this place for feedback...so for them, I can see where what you're saying is important. In my drawing classes, the first thing most of the teachers do is tear you down and basically rip you to shreds. Critiques are brutal. Final crits are particularly horrible in my department - all the juniors and seniors come, and all the faculty in the department rip your work apart for 15 minutes. You're basically thrown in the lion's den, and all your peers are there watching in the stands, haha. It's pretty crazy, but that's the environment that you really learn the most in.

 

Buuuuut...that's for people who are already at intermediate level. You do that to a beginner, they'll probably have PTS every time they see art materials for the rest of their life. Beginners have to work up to the point where they're ready to receive real critique.

 

I have an example of this, I think. One of my life drawing professors was, uh...super, super hardcore. He's very, very good at what he does, professional illustrator for over 40 years. He even worked with Andrew Wyeth quite a bit. But he gave insane critiques, at a ridiculously high standard. Almost everyone hated his guts, because they honestly weren't at the point where they could actually understand his critiques. The students couldn't grasp what he was saying because they weren't at his level of understanding, and he was incapable of lowering himself to their level. So people just thought he was anal, a bully, etc. When in reality he was a wealth of information.

 

One of my classmates had just come back to school after 10 years, and she hadn't really drawn or done any art in between. She used to be good, but because of her long hiatus, she was super rusty. The professor completely ripped her apart - she adamantly believed that he was targeting her, and I honestly can't say she was wrong. She was so affected by it that she actually changed her major - went from Illustration to Art Education. Now she's too nervous to draw and hates to do so because it would remind her of the professor. And him? Well, he got fired last semester cause there were just too many complaints. 

 

I agree that blind praise is boring, useless and a waste of both the commenter's and artist's time. But the other extreme can be just as bad...And I don't think everyone here is particularly interested in getting to as high of a level as you think. A lot of people just draw for fun, because they enjoy doing so. But it takes a lot of work to get to a high level of technical understanding, and people who do it as a hobby may not be interested in committing to that, they just enjoy drawing. And that is fine. People make art for different reasons. If they want to get to a higher level and will sincerely put in the effort, then they should definitely get critique. But there's nothing wrong with not being interested in it, too.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Powderpuff

[DoctorMcCrimmon 132]

He goes on and on about how awful people praising "bad" art are, when he's missing the point that what is "good" or worthy of praise is a matter of opinion. I can praise whatever I want to if I feel it is worthy.

 

 

 

All I got from his rant was that he thinks he can tell people what to think. There's being honest, then their's being obscenely rude.

 

Again, he's flat out insulting people who appreciate something he doesn't.

 

 

 

There's also better ways to telling someone you disagree with them than saying they are "doing the wrong thing", that they're "bullshitting", that artists feel "anger" towards you if you "falsely praise their work", that "bad" artists wouldn't have wasted time if it wasn't for "false praisers" like me, that they're "lying", and so on. All of these are insults hurled by OP. And I'm the one getting "bent out of shape"?

I am an admittedly novice artist, and I agree with the OP. I would rather have ONE critique that says what I should try to improve (done politely, as OP suggests), than a DOZEN empty praises.

 

You don't learn anything by skating by on what you already know. And, yes, if I see someone asking for criticism, and I can tell what might help, I WILL say so. Because, sometimes? It doesn't matter the skill level. Sometimes a fresh pair of eyes can make a world of difference. Blindly just saying "Oooh, that's purdy" is about as helpful as saying "Eugh, what a heap of trash!" Criticism should be helpful, thought out, and (most importantly) polite.

 

Saying for example "Your pony's flank is disproportionate to the rest of its body… try working on the angle, or just shrink the haunches a bit…" may not be using the "artist lingo", but it's helpful. Or "That one hoof is bent a funny way, looks painful! Otherwise, love the colour scheme." Adds a little humour to it, while giving some constructive feedback.

[LightningMana 146]

I've been a commission artist for about 7 years now, and I can share some enlightenment on this subject-

 

People starting out need encouragement~ no matter how imperfect their craft is, time and practice come natural with or without critique. Sometimes critiques involve advice that a artist can't control right away, and they could stress out over something that can only change and improve over time and practice. 

 

Growth stems from encouragement, so if everyone is encouraged, everyone is likely to grow to be strong artists if they genuinely love what they do. If they love what they're doing, they'll put their love in the craft and it shows no matter if there's flaws~

 

The success of someone's art, stems from other people picking up on their love for what they do. 

 

A lot of people are very emotionally sensitive, and aren't always mentally prepared to receive a negative reaction to something they love doing.

 

People who are equipped for wanted criticism, and feel stuck, should ask for it for outside advice~ I do that from time to time if I feel a block. Sometimes it takes another perspective to open up opportunities~

 

But other than that, if a person doesn't ask for criticism, chances are they don't want it and won't cope with it well if it's given~

 

That's a risk people take and criticism is meant to be rejected if not wanted. It's healthy for a person to accept that criticisms can be rejected, or perhaps stored in the back of someone's mind for a later time~

 

That's my philosophy for trying to maintain sanity as a growing artist. 

[Frith is Magick 1,471]

Just something else I want to throw in here: the brohoof button is a wonderful thing. If you like something, but don't really have anything to say, just brohoof it and save yourself and the creator time. Talent is not inherent ability, it is the passion to pursue a craft tirelessly and become better. If someone truly loves what they do, by all means encourage them, but it is the honest opinion that is more helpful, and they can handle it. The type of people who give up at the first sign of adversity obviously had little interest in what they were doing in the first place and wouldn't have benefited from it anyway. 

 

Random personal story: on a few separate occasions over the years I tried getting into drawing. I sucked. Bad. I quickly lost interest on those occasions, and the reason I never improved was that I never cared enough. It wasn't until a couple months ago I found something that interested me, so I pursued the skill and improved rapidly. If someone gives up, it just isn't their time yet, but eventually the will find something they love, and it will give them the spark they need to really develop the skill.

 

A quick shout-out to Silverwisp the Bard. There are a few good artist on this site, and a few damn good ones too, but among them this guy gives the best critique out of anyone I have encountered so far. Thank you for all of your help.