The Dazzlings vs Discord

[The Crimson Cross 7,532]

Looking at it purely as a power comparison, Discord still trumps. The sirens can entrance with music, but Discord can snap his fingers and do whatever he wants. 

 

Well yes! I'd have to say that quite a few people tend to forget that Discord is basically an omnipotent being with unfathomable and unlimited power to do basically whatever he desires.   

I bet he could just turn them all into frogs or something in an instant! 

[Nuke87654 1,849]

Yep, that Discord, who's still way, way above the dazzlings, and most people in the MLPverse.

As a side note, Discord also blitzes here. The newest comic has him traveling outside of the galaxy in between the space a month, and also time traveling.

008.jpg

 

In the space of a month, holy crap if that's the case wouldn't that put him at least FTL speeds if not massive scale?

 

Checked the math again, if we're to believe horsehead Nebula is a FIM's pun on Horseshoe Nebula and Equestria is on the same spot Earth is, then the distance in between would be 5,000-6,000 light years, pretty much confirming he's FTL and the fact he can travel back in time through sheer speed pretty much vindicates this.

 

With this newfound calc, Discord can actually hang out with some of Marvel, DC's, and Image's more powerful characters that aren't absolutely top tier characters. Aka, I'm classifying him around their mid tier level now.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Nuke87654

[Conred 274]

 

 

The Dazzlings can cause chaos among people and are tough enough that Starswirl the Bearded had to step in, instead of any other pony in Equestria, like Clover the Clever(who had the Fires of Friendship)

 

You just answered your own question. Starswirl was tough enought to beat Dazzlings and send them to human world. This mean Starswirl>Dazzlings.

We already know that Discord defeated Celestia, Luna and Starswirl when taking control of Equestria and before they discover the Elements. So following this logic Discord>Starswirl(+Luna and Celestia)>Dazzlings

 

Summary:

Discord is probably few times stronger than Dazzlings

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Conred,

He trapped them in another dimension, that's not the same thing as beating them outright 

In the space of a month, holy crap if that's the case wouldn't that put him at least FTL speeds if not massive scale?

 

Checked the math again, if we're to believe horsehead Nebula is a FIM's pun on Horseshoe Nebula and Equestria is on the same spot Earth is, then the distance in between would be 5,000-6,000 light years, pretty much confirming he's FTL and the fact he can travel back in time through sheer speed pretty much vindicates this.

 

With this newfound calc, Discord can actually hang out with some of Marvel, DC's, and Image's more powerful characters that aren't absolutely top tier characters.

It's ludicrously inconsistent with everything else he's done then. For this to work, you have to assume that an unspecified(but not all) the ponies in Equestria can apparently add up to making Tirek FTL. Not to mention couldn't he have just stopped the Elements from stoning him by going back in time before they hit him an instant before they hit him?

 

It's just a joke that makes no sense at all, considering Alicorn Powered Twilight is only super sonic at best

[Nuke87654 1,849]

From that calc, yea sorry Hive King, but I'm on the boat with Discord winning this as the fact he's able to move that fast means the only way they can hope of beating him would be if he allowed them to like he did with Celestia, Luna, and the mane 6 with the Elements of Harmony.

[Conred 274]

If he could do that, you'd think he would have escaped Tirek that way instead of just sitting there gobsmacked while Tirek drained his power

He did that because he was struck by betrayal and didnt react quick enough since his brain felt this emotion for the first time and didnt know how to react. As you seen he was still asking question already after his draining(about medallion). Maybe he thought that Tirek is joking somehow. Either way it doesnt mean Discord is stupid. He was just naive, he doesnt understand other creatures and their agenda because he was always alone

[Hive King 2,001]

From that calc, yea sorry Hive King, but I'm on the boat with Discord winning this as the fact he's able to move that fast means the only way they can hope of beating him would be if he allowed them to like he did with Celestia, Luna, and the mane 6 with the Elements of Harmony.

If Discord is FTL and a time traveller, then his intelligence drops down to the level of a rock for not stopping them a thousand ways before they could do anything to him. One could make an excuse with Celestia and Luna, as he wasn't ready for them, but with the Mane 6 and Tirek, he had over 10 seconds to react

He did that because he was struck by betrayal and didnt react quick enough since his brain felt this emotion for the first time and didnt know how to react. As you seen he was still asking question already after his draining(about medallion). Maybe he thought that Tirek is joking somehow. Either way it doesnt mean Discord is stupid. He was just naive, he doesnt understand other creatures and their agenda because he was always alone

Discord's reaction time is abysmal then. Hell, we saw with Twilight that there's plenty of time to escape Tirek's magic drain too

[Nuke87654 1,849]

@@Conred,

He trapped them in another dimension, that's not the same thing as beating them outright 

It's ludicrously inconsistent with everything else he's done then. For this to work, you have to assume that an unspecified(but not all) the ponies in Equestria can apparently add up to making Tirek FTL. Not to mention couldn't he have just stopped the Elements from stoning him by going back in time before they hit him an instant before they hit him?

 

It's just a joke that makes no sense at all, considering Alicorn Powered Twilight is only super sonic at best

 

Sorry but it's one of the most definite calcs the series has offered and him losing to the heroes and why they don't display such powers in the show can be explained as:

 

A. He holds back tremendously whenever he feels confident about his victory, showing his major flaw of being cocky and arrogant.

 

B. While the show doesn't display them being at such powerful levels, the comics which are canon until the show expressly says otherwise, says he can move at such speeds and generally they hold little back in showing off of how powerful a character is.

 

C. Also, Alicorn powered Twilight is much faster than supersonic considering she held the powers of Celestia and Luna, who are hypersonic speedsters thanks to Luna's feat in the Nightmare Rarity arc.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

A. He holds back tremendously whenever he feels confident about his victory, showing his major flaw of being cocky and arrogant.

He was feeling cocky against the Elements, but he wasn't feeling cocky against Tirek at all, he was outright cringing in front of him. Also, he was already going "no" before the Elements hit him, he could have dodged or time traveled if he was so powerful

 

 

B. While the show doesn't display them being at such powerful levels, the comics which are canon until the show expressly says otherwise, says he can move at such speeds and generally they hold little back in showing off of how powerful a character is.

It contradicts the show in the fact that he can't react within seconds, which he needs in order to move so fast

 

 

C. Also, Alicorn powered Twilight is much faster than supersonic considering she held the powers of Celestia and Luna, who are hypersonic speedsters thanks to Luna's feat in the Nightmare Rarity arc.

She flew past RD and the most we saw was a delayed sonic boom. But the delay was very similar to the sonic rainboom.

 

Adding onto that, Nightmare Moon and Celestia's dog fight was pitifully slow, no sonic booms at all.

 

There's no point in taking the comics as canon when there are so many inconsistencies 

[Conred 274]

If Discord is FTL and a time traveller, then his intelligence drops down to the level of a rock for not stopping them a thousand ways before they could do anything to him. One could make an excuse with Celestia and Luna, as he wasn't ready for them, but with the Mane 6 and Tirek, he had over 10 seconds to react

Discord's reaction time is abysmal then. Hell, we saw with Twilight that there's plenty of time to escape Tirek's magic drain too

You are trying to squeeze possible weakness of Discord to make him look weaker than Dazzlings and say that slight possibility that he would let himself get defeated without doing nothing just because his pride and overconfidence made him lose in the past. But im afraid you will fail. I could use same tactic and name bunch of characters weak sides of Dazzlings that would make them weaker than Flash Sentry. For example they were hardly a team, they were bickering constantly and i was suprised that they didnt beat them by making them fight eachother. Especially since Sunset Shimmer had experience with it in EG 1. Not to even mention Discord. His freaking name is is also a name of a tool he would use to defeat them without use of force. As a i said, even human would be able to deal with Dazzlings. They were weaker than demon Sunset

[Nuke87654 1,849]

He was feeling cocky against the Elements, but he wasn't feeling cocky against Tirek at all, he was outright cringing in front of him. Also, he was already going "no" before the Elements hit him, he could have dodged or time traveled if he was so powerful

 

 

It contradicts the show in the fact that he can't react within seconds, which he needs in order to move so fast

 

 

She flew past RD and the most we saw was a delayed sonic boom. But the delay was very similar to the sonic rainboom.

 

Adding onto that, Nightmare Moon and Celestia's dog fight was pitifully slow, no sonic booms at all.

 

There's no point in taking the comics as canon when there are so many inconsistencies 

 

1. He was also feeling emotionally distraught with his betrayal, thus clouding his mind.

 

2. If that were the case, then anytime a feat is not consistently displayed in other comics they're not canon as well but yet we accept those calcs easily. Why can't we do the same for Discord with the media FIM is using that is considered all in one canon.

 

3. Sorry, regardless of inconsistencies, they're canon so long as the show does not specifically say it's not canon like they did with the comic originally having Twilight Velvet as the writer for Daring Do till the show said nope Daring Do is a real character.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Nuke87654

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

1. He was also feeling emotionally distraught with his betrayal, thus clouding his mind.

For ten seconds? And that doesn't excuse the second time

 

 

2. If that were the case, then anytime a feat is not consistently displayed in other comics they're not canon as well but yet we accept those calcs easily. Why can't we do the same for Discord.

I don't accept the comics at all, so yeah

 

 

3. Sorry, regardless of inconsistencies, they're canon so long as the show does not specifically say it's not canon like they did with the comic originally having Twilight Velvet's mother as the writer for Daring Do till the show said nope Daring Do is a real character.

Discord being unable to react in the space of 5 seconds=Contradiction supreme

 

You can't just say "Well, this part of the comics is non-canon, but this part is", barring gags and the like 

@@Conred,

Discord's discord making was rather pathetic. He was scared by a large worm, of all things 

[Nuke87654 1,849]

For ten seconds? And that doesn't excuse the second time

 

 

I don't accept the comics at all, so yeah

 

 

Discord being unable to react in the space of 5 seconds=Contradiction supreme

 

You can't just say "Well, this part of the comics is non-canon, but this part is", barring gags and the like 

 

1. Again extremely cocky or feeling emotional for his betrayal and how he hadn't suspected Tirek would betray him. Also you're refusing to take into account that the comics are considered canon unless the show says otherwise also I consider the comics canon and Hasbro does as well.

 

2. How about how Discord was able to casually move the Sun and Moon at FTL speeds with a wave of his hand in 'Return of Harmony' or the latest feat from the comics for him. Why you get to pick and choose which calcs is legit or not while I can't and I'm following what Hasbro considers the comics to be in the show canon.

 

3. Twilight Velvet being retconned from the comic can be considered as such as it was heavily implied that she was Daring Do's Author. Then Daring Don't came and threw that canon out the window. That's how the show can retcon a point in the comics. Thus unless I'm shown a calc in the show showing him to be much slower and it is stated that's how fast he can go, that feat in the comic is canon.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Nuke87654

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

1. Again extremely cocky or feeling emotional for his betrayal and how he hadn't suspected Tirek would betray him. Also you're refusing to take into account that the comics are considered canon unless the show says otherwise also I consider the comics canon and Hasbro does as well.

I believe the official word was "the comics are canon if you want them to be". And how about when he couldn't just swipe the Elements from the Mane 6 during Keep Calm and Flutter On?

 

 

2. How about how Discord was able to casually move the Sun and Moon at FTL speeds with a wave of his hand in 'Return of Harmony' or the latest feat from the comics for him. Why you get to pick and choose which calcs is legit or not while I can't and I'm following what Hasbro considers the comics to be in the show canon.

We've already gone over that for the Sun and Moon trick to work, either Equestria is a giant planet or the Sun and Moon are tiny. This also scales very badly with the destruction Tirek's blast caused, not even fully destroying a tree

 

 

3. Twilight Velvet being retconned from the comic can be considered as such as it was heavily implied that she was Daring Do's Author. Then Daring Don't came and threw that canon out the window. That's how the show can retcon a point in the comics. Thus unless I'm shown a calc in the show showing him to be much slower and it is stated that's how fast he can go, that feat in the comic is canon.

He's slower in Return of Harmony, Princess Twilight, and Keep Calm and Flutter On. Alternatively, he's fast, but has abysmal reaction time. 

[Nuke87654 1,849]

I believe the official word was "the comics are canon if you want them to be". And how about when he couldn't just swipe the Elements from the Mane 6 during Keep Calm and Flutter On?

 

 

We've already gone over that for the Sun and Moon trick to work, either Equestria is a giant planet or the Sun and Moon are tiny. This also scales very badly with the destruction Tirek's blast caused, not even fully destroying a tree

 

 

He's slower in Return of Harmony, Princess Twilight, and Keep Calm and Flutter On. Alternatively, he's fast, but has abysmal reaction time. 

 

1. So what about those that want to use comics as canon? Don't they get higher priority considering how Hasbro views the FIM's comics as canon to the show? Because Celestia had a charm that actually worked this time. Considering how she had ample time to make sure her spell can work against Discord after 'Return of Harmony' I don't see why not as she had time to prepare a much better defense for the Elements of Harmony against Discord.

 

2. Amy Keating Rogers in an email already confirms the Moon and the Sun in FIM is the same size as ours so either they don't take physics in regard (most likely theory) or Equestria is a giant planet as you said. Tirek managed to destroy Twilight's tree library and busted through a mountain to harm Twilight, I'm sure he's quite capable of more destruction considering he absorbed all the ponies and Discord in him.

 

3. He also didn't need to move at such speeds or is toying around and not taking threat as seriously as he should. Not to menton you're not taking into account that the writer has a certain story element they may wish to use Discord for so at that moment they may not wish to show him being all powerful but rather to have him beaten for the sake of the story. It would be boring and unfortunate if he can't be beaten regardless of what they do.

[Sunny Fox 5,952]

As for the difference between A: "Return of Harmony" and B: "Keep Calm and Flutter On": In A, Celestia only said the Elements were in a chamber that she had protected with a spell. In other words, there was no protection on the Elements themselves. Maybe it prevented Discord from opening the door, but if he can still affect the Elements themselves, that provides a loophole. In the case of B, she cast a protection spell on the Elements themselves. I think that's sufficient to account for the apparent discrepancy.

[A Black Circle 1,586]

You know why the dazzlings wouldnt defeat discord?

 

BECAUSE THEY"RE HIS HENCHMEN.

[Conred 274]

You know why the dazzlings wouldnt defeat discord?

 

BECAUSE THEY"RE HIS HENCHMEN.

This thread kind of look like trying to compare Sauron to 3 Uruk hai and only one person trying to make those orcs look stronger

[Fractured 2,684]

I believe the official word was "the comics are canon if you want them to be". And how about when he couldn't just swipe the Elements from the Mane 6 during Keep Calm and Flutter On?

 

 

We've already gone over that for the Sun and Moon trick to work, either Equestria is a giant planet or the Sun and Moon are tiny. This also scales very badly with the destruction Tirek's blast caused, not even fully destroying a tree

 

 

He's slower in Return of Harmony, Princess Twilight, and Keep Calm and Flutter On. Alternatively, he's fast, but has abysmal reaction time. 

Cherry picking again. What the characters could do is not often what the characters can do, usually do plot specific ideas or the writers not knowing what level of strength they've gave their characters. This happens everywhere, and it's about as legitimate means of dismissing feats as saying "because I don't like it".

 

As for the sun and moon thing, it's already been confirmed multiple times that its the same size as ours. Whether you personally choose to accept it is one thing, but you shouldn't hold up debates on personal convictions.

[NotoriousSMALL 1,984]

No, they were not. You're both making huge assumptions that the magic in the elements and the magic between its wielders is somehow exactly the same, when there as absolutely no evidence to support this claim.

except the fact that they can defeat villains without them, with the same, huge rainbow beam? correct me if im wrong but they gave up the elements to that tree and when they did they went super powered and destroyed tirek and then restored all of the ponies magic

 

edit: dont reply to this i just read that post of the stray magic

Edited October 26, 2014 by NotoriousSMALL

[NotoriousSMALL 1,984]

... Using a seed from the tree of harmony, which is the most powerful entity known to pony kind. How do you guys miss this stuff?

eh it was like 5 months ago that i watched it i dont remember every single part

[Jeric 46,866]

Careful when using the Rainbow Powers as a place to hinge this debate on as we don't know if it will be a carryover element of the Mane Six yet until season 5.

 

My thoughts:

 

Discord appears to be limited mostly by imagination, and his flaws are pretty basic personality flaws. The Sirens, while potentially uber strong if they succeeded in conquering Equestria, are limited naturally by the EQG world. Also they have specificity limits and rely on a external object for their source if power. The Dazzlings also share one of Discords personality flaws - arrogance.

 

Discord wins

[Hive King 2,001]

Since I don't feel like responding to every single post(this is what happens when I leave for a while), I'd like to mention the two main points here

 

a. "DISCORD IS A GOD!!!" is being thrown around a lot. No, he can't manipulate everything, this is seen against Tirek. Also, he's vastly weaker than Discord powered Tirek, who was unable to fully destroy a tree

 

b. Discord's feats in the comics are a bit of a problem. If you believe the comics to be canon, Discord super-mega-ultra-special-awesome curbstomps the fight. However, if you don't believe them to be canon, then the issue is less clear cut. And since the word is that they are "canon if you want them to be", then this is a problem. I propose that Comic and Show Discord be divided into two power levels

 

Bearing that in mind, Show Discord loses to the Dazzlings in a pretty decent fight, but Comics Discord stomps them

Edited October 26, 2014 by Hive King

[Fractured 2,684]

Since I don't feel like responding to every single post(this is what happens when I leave for a while), I'd like to mention the two main points here

 

a. "DISCORD IS A GOD!!!" is being thrown around a lot. No, he can't manipulate everything, this is seen against Tirek. Also, he's vastly weaker than Discord powered Tirek, who was unable to fully destroy a tree

 

b. Discord's feats in the comics are a bit of a problem. If you believe the comics to be canon, Discord super-mega-ultra-special-awesome curbstomps the fight. However, if you don't believe them to be canon, then the issue is less clear cut. And since the word is that they are "canon if you want them to be", then this is a problem. I propose that Comic and Show Discord be divided into two power levels

 

Bearing that in mind, Show Discord loses to the Dazzlings in a pretty decent fight, but Comics Discord stomps them

Actually, comics are considered canon unless contradicted by the show. You're also ignoring energy output in favor of directly destructive feats, which is a poor method of judging character's capabilities.

 

Regardless, Discord still stomps here; magic strong enough to control the sun and moon are way above anything the Dazzlings have done. Scaling from Alicorns magical blasts in the shows puts him stupidly above their speed.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

ou're also ignoring energy output in favor of directly destructive feats, which is a poor method of judging character's capabilities.   Regardless, Discord still stomps here; magic strong enough to control the sun and moon are way above anything the Dazzlings have done. Scaling from Alicorns magical blasts in the shows puts him stupidly above their speed

What I'm gathering is that if someone fires off a clearly full power blast, it's not actually their full power? That's basically the argument you're making. Nightmare Moon fires plenty of blasts, most of them only being about the level of a stick of dynamite(give or take a little). It would logically take more energy to move celestial bodies, but the fact of the matter is that Discord(via extension of being part of Tirek) has not shown the same ability when it comes to destroying things. There isn't really any good reason for this either, Tirek's blasts should by all common sense be destroying landscapes in an instant.  

 

So tell me, if their destructive blasts don't line up with their other magic, which one do we follow? The one that is actually used in combat? Or the one that is used more for support