What if Asperger's really isn't a disease?

[Invincible 2,092]

Disease, as in a debilitating condition caused by a foreign pathogen? No, it most definitely isn't.

 

As for your What-if; genetic mutations aren't the biggest catalysts in an evolution of a species, or at least not the only ones. Plus, the general trend is that genes contributing to a species survival are the ones getting passed on. No offense meant towards any who might have it, but i don't find Asperger's as a positive trait.

 

If what you say is true and Asperger is appearing more frequently in human populace (i actually heard nothing of that, but could be misinformed), while i didn't do as much research on it as you claim to have, i'd hazard a guess and say it's more likely it's a by-product of certain lifestyles or modern human living conditions.

[Sanctified Absence 126]

I don't believe it is the next step for Human evolution, mainly because our current self-designed environment prevents us from being isolated from each other, as well as giving those with potentially superior traits no additional chance to reproduce.

 

Humanity, unless something big happens, is beyond natural evolution for the moment. All we can do now is ride out our intellectual "evolution," until such a time comes.

[Po-Nonimous 583]

Disease, as in a debilitating condition caused by a foreign pathogen? No, it most definitely isn't.

 

As for your What-if; genetic mutations aren't the biggest catalysts in an evolution of a species, or at least not the only ones. Plus, the general trend is that genes contributing to a species survival are the ones getting passed on. No offense meant towards any who might have it, but i don't find Asperger's as a positive trait.

 

If what you say is true and Asperger is appearing more frequently in human populace (i actually heard nothing of that, but could be misinformed), while i didn't do as much research on it as you claim to have, i'd hazard a guess and say it's more likely it's a by-product of certain lifestyles or modern human living conditions.

 

Good points but do you, yourself, have Aspergers? It's hard to understand what it's like to have something if you don't have it, yourself. I'm not insulting you just pointing that out for clarification.

 

Now, you say it could be a by-product of modern human living conditions and that makes perfect sense to me because everything in our environments has at least some small effect on us on a daily basis and could easily affect our genes in the long run. (Look at all the things that are said to cause cancer. What is cancer, really, but damage to certain genes in the body causing cells to run rampant and grow out of control?)

 

Now, of course, I can't speak for anyone else but, like I said; it's turned out to be a real asset for me in the long run, not a disability.

[VitalSpark 1,830]

 

 

Disease, as in a debilitating condition caused by a foreign pathogen?

 

Not all diseases are caused by a foreign pathogen. Cancer is an obvious example of one that is not. Coronary artery disease is another.

 

Autism and Asperger's are both included in the International Classification of Diseases, 10th Revision (ICD-10), so I wouldn't consider it completely incorrect to refer to them as "diseases", though it would be more usual terminology to refer to them as "disorders".

[Invincible 2,092]

Good points but do you, yourself, have Aspergers? It's hard to understand what it's like to have something if you don't have it, yourself. I'm not insulting you just pointing that out for clarification.

 

Now, you say it could be a by-product of modern human living conditions and that makes perfect sense to me because everything in our environments has at least some small effect on us on a daily basis and could easily affect our genes in the long run. (Look at all the things that are said to cause cancer. What is cancer, really, but damage to certain genes in the body causing cells to run rampant and grow out of control?)

 

Now, of course, I can't speak for anyone else but, like I said; it's turned out to be a real asset for me in the long run, not a disability.

 

Admittedly, I do not have AS myself, i was stating points gleaned using what i do know of it. Another thing to consider is, whether or not a certain quality (genetic or otherwise) helps different individuals or otherwise. While you say you managed out pretty good with it, is the same true for everyone else's experiences?

 

If it counts for anything, i actually personally know someone who does, and while currently he's a real super star, he was somewhat hindered in his growth as a child (you wouldn't see it on him nowadays though). 

Not all diseases are caused by a foreign pathogen. Cancer is an obvious example of one that is not. Coronary artery disease is another.

 

Autism and Asperger's are both included in the International Classification of Diseases, 10th Revision (ICD-10), so I wouldn't consider it completely incorrect to refer to them as "diseases", though it would be more usual terminology to refer to them as "disorders".

That's actually insightful. I was under the impression Cancer isn't a 'disease', and that the term merely refers to any that is caused by pathogens.

[Po-Nonimous 583]

Admittedly, I do not have AS myself, i was stating points gleaned using what i do know of it. Another thing to consider is, whether or not a certain quality (genetic or otherwise) helps different individuals or otherwise. While you say you managed out pretty good with it, is the same true for everyone else's experiences?

 

If it counts for anything, i actually personally know someone who does, and while currently he's a real super star, he was somewhat hindered in his growth as a child (you wouldn't see it on him nowadays though). 

 

Okay, fair enough. Thanks for that, I appreciate that you said you don't have it. As for what I find to be an asset, I can only speak for myself and no one else regarding that but it's also my hope that I can somehow help others with AS to find ways that they can use it in positive ways, too or, at the very least, to accept it as part of themselves and find ways to live happy, productive lives instead of wasting time and energy on thinking they're "weird" as I did when I was a kid.

 

And thanks for sharing that about your super star friend. That's encouraging and shows me that anyone can do whatever they want to do, become anything they want to become, if they just decide they want to do it.

Not all diseases are caused by a foreign pathogen. Cancer is an obvious example of one that is not. Coronary artery disease is another.

 

Autism and Asperger's are both included in the International Classification of Diseases, 10th Revision (ICD-10), so I wouldn't consider it completely incorrect to refer to them as "diseases", though it would be more usual terminology to refer to them as "disorders".

 

But, it's been proven time and again that diseases like cancer are caused by foreign pathogens. Such as: cigaret smoking being a primary cause of lung cancer and eating way too much red meat causing coronary artery disease along with many other pathogen induced illnesses.

 

Other examples are: Minimata disease, a crippling disease caused by consuming fish with mercury in it, kids getting brain damage from eating paint chips with lead in them among some of the many diseases and illnesses caused by pathogens.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

 

 

I can honestly say that I never would have felt like there was anything wrong with me.

 

That's not the same for me. I've always known that something was off about me, particularly when people in my middle school life referred to me as "gay" because of my unusual mannerisms (That said, I was never actually bullied, per se. People just liked picking on me because I was strange, I guess). I knew that these mannerisms were not normal, but I just couldn't really stop myself from doing them in public. Thankfully, I'm now much better at that. 

 

In fact, Pinkie's eccentric mannerisms have made me shake my head on more than one occasion. Just can't help but think that it's a bit unfair that she's allowed to be strange and different, and yet no one picks on her for it. 

 

 

 

Now, here I am, fifty years past my childhood

 

 

Say what, now?   You may be the oldest brony I've ever heard of (assuming you are one, of course, but given the site, I imagine it's a safe bet). 

[Vemillia Nightshade 2,247]

Not all diseases are caused by a foreign pathogen. Cancer is an obvious example of one that is not. Coronary artery disease is another.

 

Autism and Asperger's are both included in the International Classification of Diseases, 10th Revision (ICD-10), so I wouldn't consider it completely incorrect to refer to them as "diseases", though it would be more usual terminology to refer to them as "disorders".

 

Well, it's obvious that not all diseases are pathogen based but are related to cells being affected or destroyed. I've never really seen Autism or Asperger's as a disease. Well it's just in my logic that when people say it's a disease, that they are saying we are infected with something that they must 'eradicate'. That's how I've always seen it. Then again, I've never gotten into health sciences too deep so there goes what I said earlier. I've always been told they were disorders, so I've been following that but I will admit this is interesting. I just don't like the terminology 'disease' too much, as to me it make people sound conceded like I have something wrong with me that they don't like.

 

The thing is it also maybe being marked as a 'disease' to appease doctors who want to medicate us on ten million drugs just because we have ADHD or Asperger's or something like that. I mean, there are some people who do need medications for their conditions but not every person with condition needs to have meds in their systems. There is a point where we have to draw a line.

[Invincible 2,092]

Okay, fair enough. Thanks for that, I appreciate that you said you don't have it. As for what I find to be an asset, I can only speak for myself and no one else regarding that but it's also my hope that I can somehow help others with AS to find ways that they can use it in positive ways, too or, at the very least, to accept it as part of themselves and find ways to live happy, productive lives instead of wasting time and energy on thinking they're "weird" as I did when I was a kid.

 

And thanks for sharing that about your super star friend. That's encouraging and shows me that anyone can do whatever they want to do, become anything they want to become, if they just decide they want to do it.

Of course. Just because some of your conditions are classified under a certain label doesn't mean you shouldn't make the best of it, debilitating or not.

 

 

But, it's been proven time and again that diseases like cancer are caused by foreign pathogens. Such as: cigaret smoking being a primary cause of lung cancer and eating way too much red meat causing coronary artery disease along with many other pathogen induced illnesses.

 

 

I might be wrong here, as iv'e only a superficial understanding on the subject, but pathogens are generally organic in nature; Bacteria, Fungi, even Viruses, etc. fall into that category. As i understand it, inhaling smoke or eating certain foods isn't the cause of pathogenic diseases but the microbes trapped within whatever you ingest or inhale are.

[Po-Nonimous 583]

That's not the same for me. I've always known that something was off about me, particularly when people in my middle school life referred to me as "gay" because of my unusual mannerisms (That said, I was never actually bullied, per se. People just liked picking on me because I was strange, I guess). I knew that these mannerisms were not normal, but I just couldn't really stop myself from doing them in public. Thankfully, I'm now much better at that. 

 

In fact, Pinkie's eccentric mannerisms have made me shake my head on more than one occasion. Just can't help but think that it's a bit unfair that she's allowed to be strange and different, and yet no one picks on her for it. 

Say what, now?   You may be the oldest brony I've ever heard of (assuming you are one, of course, but given the site, I imagine it's a safe bet). 

 

I think everyone goes through a part of their childhood and definitely their teen years feeling awkward and at least a little out of place. I'm glad you weren't bullied when you were younger but, unfortunately, I was and it sucked. It was because of that bullying that I ended up taking martial arts when I was a kid (paid for them myself, too, doing various odd things like mowing lawns and cleaning out attics.) After my first real fight with a bully I didn't get bullied, anymore, but that was a different time, a different age, and expectations were different, then.

 

I have to admit that I'm sometimes annoyed by Pinkie's over-the-top antics but I think the wonderful part is that all the other ponies just love and accept her just as she is and I think it's something the rest of the world could take as a good example of how everyone could be if they just put in a little effort.

 

 

Say what, now?   You may be the oldest brony I've ever heard of (assuming you are one, of course, but given the site, I imagine it's a safe bet).

 

 

Yeah, it's funny... I may well be the oldest Brony in existance (and I'm really beginning to think I am and it's not an easy job but somebody's gotta do it! LOL!)

[VitalSpark 1,830]

But, it's been proven time and again that diseases like cancer are caused by foreign pathogens.

 

I never claimed that they could not be caused by pathogens, just that disease is not always caused by pathogens.

 

That said, I would not consider any of the examples you gave to be pathogens according to the usual definition of the word. Pathogens are generally taken to be infectious agents such as bacteria, fungi, viruses, and parasites. (Mercury, lead, and so forth being toxins rather than pathogens.)

 

Some cancers are caused by pathogens. Most, or possibly all, cervical cancer is caused by the human papillomavirus (HPV). And liver cancer is usually caused by hepatitis. But skin cancer is usually caused by exposure to the sun, not by a pathogen or toxin. And breast cancer sometimes has a genetic cause.

 

There are plenty of other diseases which are entirely down to genetics, and have nothing to do with any foreign pathogens or toxins. Sickle cell anaemia and Huntington's disease for example.

[Po-Nonimous 583]

I never claimed that they could not be caused by pathogens, just that disease is not always caused by pathogens.

 

That said, I would not consider any of the examples you gave to be pathogens according to the usual definition of the word. Pathogens are generally taken to be infectious agents such as bacteria, fungi, viruses, and parasites. (Mercury, lead, and so forth being toxins rather than pathogens.)

 

Some cancers are caused by pathogens. Most, or possibly all, cervical cancer is caused by the human papillomavirus (HPV). And liver cancer is usually caused by hepatitis. But skin cancer is usually caused by exposure to the sun, not by a pathogen or toxin. And breast cancer sometimes has a genetic cause.

 

There are plenty of other diseases which are entirely down to genetics, and have nothing to do with any foreign pathogens or toxins. Sickle cell anaemia and Huntington's disease for example.

 

Okay, you know what? You're right. I'm getting "pathogens" and "carcenogens" mixed up. Blame it on old age. LOL!

[Cleverclover 1,526]

I think everyone goes through a part of their childhood and definitely their teen years feeling awkward and at least a little out of place. I'm glad you weren't bullied when you were younger but, unfortunately, I was and it sucked. It was because of that bullying that I ended up taking martial arts when I was a kid (paid for them myself, too, doing various odd things like mowing lawns and cleaning out attics.) After my first real fight with a bully I didn't get bullied, anymore, but that was a different time, a different age, and expectations were different, then.   I have to admit that I'm sometimes annoyed by Pinkie's over-the-top antics but I think the wonderful part is that all the other ponies just love and accept her just as she is and I think it's something the rest of the world could take as a good example of how everyone could be if they just put in a little effort.

 

 

I'm sorry that you were bullied. I always told myself that if anyone ever tried to bully me, I would fight with that person, and wouldn't even care if I got suspended for it. That's due in part to my dad being a tough-as-nails Marine who always told me to stick up for myself. 

 

Ironically enough, I also took up martial arts, not because I wanted to defend myself from bullies, but because it was just something I wanted to do. That was about when I was 10-11, so I was still in my outgoing/hyperactive state. Unfortunately, I only made it to Green-White belt because I ended up moving to another state and I never bothered to take it up again. 

 

 

 

Yeah, it's funny... I may well be the oldest Brony in existance (and I'm really beginning to think I am and it's not an easy job but somebody's gotta do it! LOL!)

 

That's pretty cool. It actually makes me feel a lot better because I've been beginning to wonder at what age does it become socially unacceptable to be a fan of a show about magical talking ponies... 

 

@, You know something? Between your avatar and your smart, knowledge-filled posts in this thread, I can't help but read them with Twilight's voice. 

 

And it's sooooooooooo annoying. 

Edited February 9, 2015 by Cleverclover

[Po-Nonimous 583]

I'm sorry that you were bullied. I always told myself that if anyone ever tried to bully me, I would fight with that person, and wouldn't even care if I got suspended for it. That's due in part to my dad being a tough-as-nails Marine who always told me to stick up for myself. 

 

Ironically enough, I also took up martial arts, not because I wanted to defend myself from bullies, but because it was just something I wanted to do. That was about when I was 10-11, so I was still in my outgoing/hyperactive state. Unfortunately, I only made it to Green-White belt because I ended up moving to another state and I never bothered to take it up again. 

 

 

 

 

That's pretty cool. It actually makes me feel a lot better because I've been beginning to wonder at what age does it become socially unacceptable to be a fan of a show about magical talking ponies... 

 

@, You know something? Between your avatar and your smart, knowledge-filled posts in this thread, I can't help but read them with Twilight's voice. 

 

And it's sooooooooooo annoying. 

 

Although I was sorry for it at the time looking back I'm not sorry that I was bullied because it taught me I could be tough enough to take care of myself if I had to and encouraged me to do it.

 

Also, I'm glad you're willing to stand up for yourself against anyone who's stupid enough to be a bully. Also, I'm glad you have a dad like you do. I didn't have a dad like that and it just made things more difficult for me in the long run.

 

I'm glad you have an interest in martial arts and took it up because you wanted to. It's a great sport and you can learn a lot from it, not just how to defend yourself in a fight.

 

And what you said to VitalTwilight... LOL!! Too funny.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

I'm glad you have an interest in martial arts and took it up because you wanted to. It's a great sport and you can learn a lot from it, not just how to defend yourself in a fight.

 

I actually took up a lot of stuff when I was younger. Played baseball for a while (sucked at it), did gymnastics, recreational bike-riding. So in addition to becoming less social as I got older, I think I also ended up becoming less willing to try new things. Though about a year ago, I took up tennis just as an elective for college, and I ended up becoming pretty damn good at it.  

 

Sometimes I wish I had continued martial arts. I'd definitely be a black belt by now if I kept at it. How far did you get? 

[Odyssey 5,719]

Congratulations! You have made me laugh so hard. I haven't done so in a long time even.

 

I can tell you that Asperger's and other parts of the autism spectrum are neurodevelopment disorders. Not diseases, not learning disabilities, none of that stuff. And I know that since A. I have relatives that know tonnes about disorders and B. I'm apart of the spectrum. Not that I'm proud or ashamed to be apart of it, anyway.

 

But back to the topic at hand - I actually see where you're coming from. Asperger's has been increasing a lot since the past 20 years. As you said, there could even be some kind of genetic mutation in all of this. Considering that I have relatives that have multiple genetic problems, it could probably be the case.

 

Again, I wouldn't call the autism spectrum a disease, but I do understand what you're trying to say. Nice analysis.

[Hypn0ticD 1,214]

Asperger's Syndrome is not a disease. Furthermore, spelling it Asburger's comes off as condescending and trollish, much like you're saying, "HAI, SPERGS!"

 

Whilst I've never been formally diagnosed, I may very well have AS, as I have many of the traits. As such, I can't really say that having Asperger's really is a genetic or evolutionary advantage either, as from my experience, it limits your interests and makes it super hard to connect with others, causing me to miss out on a lot in life. Not very handy when it comes to the human race evolving!

[Shanks 10,817]

It is clearly not a disease but whether or not it is a disorder or mere difference depends on the individual and form that they have. I was first diagnosed with low functioning Autism at age 2 after exhibiting severe behavioral problems, sensory sensitivities and language delays. The doctor thought I was mentally challenged and wouldn't get an IQ past 50 but it turned out I had an above average IQ. When I got older and overcame certain challenges I began to exhibit traits much more associated with "Aspergers" than "low functioning Autism".

 

Aspergers is a form of Autism that is usually accompanied by an average or in many cases above average IQ but with difficulties interpreting social rules, norms and cues and interacting with others but the level of difficulty and how much it impacts them depends. In my case I have advanced to the point where most people can't tell I have or ever had Autism but still have challenges on certain matters so the line between disorder and difference can vary even in the same person in their lives. In my younger years and even up through my teen years I was so profoundly impacted that I think what I was going through indeed can appropriately be called a disability/disorder but now I think it is more accurate to call it a difference. It became this way through years and years of struggles, therapies, interventions and the support of a lot of people in my life and since every situation is so different it is really difficult to draw that sort of line.

 

With that said though while I wouldn't go so far as call Autism or rather the form of it known as Aspergers I do believe it can have its advantages as well as drawbacks and in some cases a drawback can be tempered into an advantage. Case in point is the often obsessive and narrow interests that many of the Autism spectrum do engage in. The disadvantage of course is things turning into excessive fixations which can interfere with healthy relationships, responsibilities and other potential interests. Nurtured properly though these "interests" can be re directed in a way that can lead to lucrative hobbies and in some cases even careers that can enrich the lives of people on the Autism spectrum.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Black Adam

[Sazama Ichida 2,367]

I too have Asperger's. Severe Asperger's. And I know that it's definitely not a disease. It's merely a birth defect and mental disability. Where the heck do people get disease from? Calling Asperger's a disease doesn't even make sense...

[Shanks 10,817]

I too have Asperger's. Severe Asperger's. And I know that it's definitely not a disease. It's merely a birth defect and mental disability. Where the heck do people get disease from? Calling Asperger's a disease doesn't even make sense...

Most of it is confusion over the definitions of disease and disorder/disability and what dosen't help this is how certain organizations like Autism Speaks keep trying to scare people by painting it is a fate worse than death to get money. And what also dosen't help is how so many thing are getting routinely pathologized, that is not to say there aren't any challenges with Aspergers that need some attention but whenever I think of a disease I tend to think of things like Cancer.

[Darius 70]

(Not reading the over replies).

 

Aspergers is not a disease it is a mental 'disability', in other words it's not the norm. I don't see the benefit of this topic , it will only offend /rile people up and could easily be found out be looking on google.

[Po-Nonimous 583]

I actually took up a lot of stuff when I was younger. Played baseball for a while (sucked at it), did gymnastics, recreational bike-riding. So in addition to becoming less social as I got older, I think I also ended up becoming less willing to try new things. Though about a year ago, I took up tennis just as an elective for college, and I ended up becoming pretty damn good at it.  

 

Sometimes I wish I had continued martial arts. I'd definitely be a black belt by now if I kept at it. How far did you get? 

Well, I'm glad you got into so many things but I'm sorry you gave up martial arts. I got up t First Dan Sempai. I was thinking of working up through the other Dans to eventual Judan level but it would have taken far too much work and far too long (My sensei told me probably thirty years or so and I wasn't ready for that so that's when I gave it up.)