Drawponies tracing scandal!

[Silver Letter 1,832]

 

 

You paid him? Wow. I feel bad for you.

I don't need your snide "sympathy".

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 2,978]

I don't need your snide "sympathy".

Was not meant to be interpreted that way but if that's what you believe then so be it.

[Suukorak 354]

He did apologize, and that's important. I understand that people are angry, but there's not much more he can do. Since he clearly does have talent when he chooses to use it, there's no reason we should drive him out or threaten him. The point is, though, that this time we'll be watching. He won't be able to get away with this again.

I don't need your snide "sympathy".

That's harsh. Maybe you two disagree, but at least do Luna the courtesy of believing him/her to be sincere.

 

I also bought from him (just some prints, I didn't commission or anything), and I'm disappointed. When I bought it, I wanted to support Drawponies in creating something original, not pay for a photoshopped screenshot. So the prints aren't good anymore. However, I'm still a bit shocked by the toxicity being spewed at him. People make mistakes, even mistakes of judgement. He did a bad thing, it's true, but he's not an irredeemable monster because of it. Whatever he did, he's a human being, and as such deserves some basic respect (like not threatening to kill or torture him). Since I don't think he's irredeemable, I'm willing to give him a second chance - though he'll have to wait some time if he wants to get any of my money again. And if he does this again, then I'm done with him. He still won't deserve to die, but he will certainly deserve getting his operation shut down. Then he'll have to find something else to make a living.

As it stands, though, I'll wait and see. Hopefully, he'll get back on his feet and make respectable art again.

[Silver Letter 1,832]

 

 

Whatever he did, he's a human being, and as such deserves some basic respect (like not threatening to kill or torture him).

I am doing nothing of the sort. I am merely promising to take my business elsewhere.

[glitterbomb 162]

It's very cheap and dissapointing

[Aleh 481]

I am doing nothing of the sort. I am merely promising to take my business elsewhere.

Not you, but quite a lot of others (Including people in this thread) have gone apeshit to a level that's almost hilarious.

[Suukorak 354]

I am doing nothing of the sort. I am merely promising to take my business elsewhere.

I didn't mean to imply that you were. But others are.

[Silver Letter 1,832]

I didn't mean to imply that you were. But others are.

Hopefully not here. I would hope that people on MLP Forums knows better.

[darkwingmare 1,300]

Oh, blame us. How nice. Is it really the fault of those that don't know every artist in the fandom? Because it sure wasn't obvious to me. Should we keep a thousand pictures of Twilight handy so we can determine what is and isn't a trace? You admit that you didn't know who this person was so you can only say what you said in hindsight which is a luxury. It's no help for people like me that paid for this person's work only to find out that it was the product of effort no greater than a child's most simple drawings.

 

 

 

You mean you come up with excuses. I usually don't. Either someone is right or they are wrong. This person is wrong.

Please, don't take what I say personally, I'm not blaming anyone here. You seem to be defending yourself for something you don't need to be taking personally or defend yourself for, so first of all... I'm not writing anything towards anyone personally and I'd never mean to offend anyone, so if I did, I'm sorry in advance. I'm just expressing my opinion on the matter and that is all. I don't want to upset anyone, even though we all have our disagreements and that occurs, I don't mean any harm to anyone.

 

This is also why I don't think people should be personally blaming Drawponies, because tracing appears and is done everywhere, each second as we write too, I'm sure. I personally am pretty good with recognizing drawing styles and I can see that he has a certain style he draws with. I could clearly have told which ones he would have traced and not, since he has another way of drawing the anatomy than the official style has, for example... He draws the chest area much thicker and he also draws the faces differently. For example: http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/311/1/1/a_new_hero_by_drawponies-d85nsvu.png . Here. That Rainbow Dash is most likely traced, I'm in fact pretty certain of that Pinkie also is traced in the first panel. While in the other two panels, they're not. http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2015/035/e/7/pinkie_no_not_the_floating_head_by_drawponies-d8gmmdw.png In here on the other hand, they're not traced. Because you can clearly see what kind of style he has and then easily point out what's official and not. I can point out some more, but I think you get the idea. 

 

So, that's what I meant. I'm not blaming anyone for not seeing this sooner or anything, I'm just saying that to me, it's not that big of a deal and it's pretty clear what's traced and what's not. To me, it doesn't matter at all because this is also a work of art that he's been doing. Tracing is a way of learning how to draw for many, perhaps tracing isn't a "type of art" when it comes to it but... Actually using vectors to make comics however, is a type of art that is very much appreciated in our fandom. It's used everywhere if you take a look around, so I don't see why it's a crime to trace official art now and again. Offical art is official art after all, it's everywhere and it's how the series are drawn. If anything, we should ask the company if they're offended about having their art traced by fans because they wanted to make a comic about ponies, I don't think they would be very offended by it to be completely honest. I can't be 100% sure, but I'm pretty certain of that it wouldn't be that big of a deal for them.

 

Compared to someone who's made art and has a personal style, for example... Dennybutt, whom I am a big fan of... If someone would take their art, trace it and tell people it's their own, it would be more personal and a bit of a bigger issue, if you ask me. Because then it's pointed to someone specifically. I'm not saying it's good to trace official art either and especially not to SELL it for money, but you probably get the point by with what I'm trying to say here. I bet you don't agree with me at all, but this is what I think and this is where I stand in this right now.

 

I can see that people are upset by this and I understand why you are, I understand what you mean and what he's done wrong. 

However, I hope that I can get some understanding in what I mean and what I think as well now that I tried to explain more specifically. You guys definitely don't have to agree with me, but at least perhaps understand my point with what I'm trying to say here.

I'd love to have an open-minded chat about this issue.

[Silver Letter 1,832]

 

 

I can see that people are upset by this and I understand why you are, I understand what you mean and what he's done wrong.

Yes, what makes many upset is that it's difficult to tell what is and is not traced. Even big fans wouldn't be able to catch everything.

[iceestarz 5,764]

Didn't even really know about him till this scandal. It sorta makes me mad though, like I've busted my butt trying to improve at drawing without any money coming my way meanwhile this dude traces and makes a living out of it. To be honest I checked out his deviantart the other day and it wasn't really anything special to me. Wasn't a fan of his work. It was meh to me.

 

It's one thing to trace just to understand the body proportions and such, but selling the artwork is messed up. Making something your own based on an image is okay, but not copying exactly to the point where you could see it was traced.

[darkwingmare 1,300]

I need everyone who haven't seen this to see this:

http://drawponies.deviantart.com/journal/Message-from-Drawponies-528204959

To you guys who don't think that he has apologized, you're wrong. He has, but people just keep on tracking down on his apology for being "too little". He's clearly learned his lesson and an apology is an apology, he's sorry. If you decide to forgive him or not is up to you. It's only you who is bringing that negative energy on yourself. Hate and anger is unnecessary to keep clinging onto when there's not much reason for it. 

 

I can see why'd you want your money back if you ever bought something from him that actually WAS traced. I'd love to see the piece you bought, I would be able to tell you if the piece was traced or not and I can do that for you personally if you'd like.

95% or more of his work ISN'T traced, so I can't see how it's is such a big deal when it comes to drawponies specifically.

Either way, he sells art because he enjoys making it, he enjoys to be included the brony community like anyone else and he probably needs the money he's earning from what he's doing. He's not some rich company that can give you refund, he's a person who likes making fanart and art. There is also a lot of work to give the money back personally to everyone he "owes" or tricked. I'm sure everyone would take their money back if they could, only to have their money back. 'Cause everyone needs money, right? It wouldn't work out. So what else do you crave from him after this point? He can't do much more than what he already did. He promised to provide only original art from this point on, he's asking for forgiveness and he is keeping strong for himself, despite all the hate and bullying he's getting for this. It's about time all of this stopped. The brony fandom shouldn't support this kind of downfall to one individual alone.

 

There are people out there who are way worse with art theft, some steal art completely from an other specific artist, reposts it and claims it as their own art. Funny thing is, most of them succeeds with it, no one asks any questions and they rarely ever get caught for their theft. And just because this person happened to trace two or three ponies for his small comic strips, or got inspired to add some extra effects to a piece from the show to add his personal little touch to it, it's the end of the world? I think that's just silly. We're almost all adults here. It's not a big deal and people need to stop getting so upset over this, let it go, as Queen Elsa probably would say.

 

This world needs more understanding, because that would lead to less hate. 

Stay peaceful, everyone.

Edited April 24, 2015 by darkwingmare

[Nuke87654 1,849]

I need everyone who haven't seen this to see this:

http://drawponies.deviantart.com/journal/Message-from-Drawponies-528204959

To you guys who don't think that he has apologized, you're wrong. He has, but people just keep on tracking down on his apology for being "too little". He's clearly learned his lesson and an apology is an apology, he's sorry. If you decide to forgive him or not is up to you. It's only you who is bringing that negative energy on yourself. Hate and anger is unnecessary to keep clinging onto when there's not much reason for it. 

 

I can see why'd you want your money back if you ever bought something from him that actually WAS traced. I'd like to see the piece, you bought and I would be able to tell you if the piece was traced or not, I can do that for you personally. 95% or more of his work ISN'T traced, so I can't see how it's is such a big deal when it comes to drawponies specifically. Either way, he sells art because he enjoys making it, he enjoys to accompany the brony community and he probably needs the money he's earning from it. He's not some rich company, he's a person who likes making fanart and art. There is also a lot of work to personally give the money back personally to everyone he owes. I'm sure everyone would take their money back if they could, only to have their money back. It wouldn't work out. So what else do you crave from him? He can't do much more than what he already did. Promised only original art from this point on, asking for forgiveness and keeping strong, despite all the hate and bullying. It's about time all of this stopped.

 

 

There are people out there who are way worse, some steal art completely from an other specific artist, reposts it and claims it as their own art. Funny thing is, most of them succeeds with it, no one asks any questions and they rarely ever get caught for their theft. And just because this person happened to trace one or two ponies for his small comic strips, or got inspired to add some extra effects to a piece from the show to add his personal little touch to it, it's the end of the world? I think that's just silly. We're almost all adults here. It's not a big deal and people need to stop getting so upset over this, let it go, as Queen Elsa probably would say.

 

This world needs more understanding, because that would lead to less hate. 

Stay peaceful, everyone.

 

http://www.horse-news.net/2015/04/drawponies-scandal-day-3-final-word-on.html#comment-form 

 

There are several problems in his apology in the form of.

 

A. One of his group's rules is that anyone caught tracing can be banned from his group. Yet he does it while forbidding his members from doing the same.

 

B. Claims his mod team never censored comments within his client sites but there is plenty of evidence showing that he is lying in his apology.

 

C. He claims Adapting to Night is completely original only to reveal that many of the characters from the comics were directly traced from a similar vector on the show.

 

D. Considering he was caught lying previously, it's very likely his claim that all of his art shown at cons was completely original is also false too.

 

There is a reason many artists and vendors in the community despise him, and it's not out simple jealousy for his financial wealth from the art he made but because he was suspected as a thief, and now he's caught as one too among his brutish tactics at coercing possible commissioners away from his competitors table and towards his own instead among other things.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Nuke87654

[darkwingmare 1,300]

A. One of his group's rules is that anyone caught tracing can be banned from his group. Yet he does it while forbidding his members from doing the same.

 

B. Claims his mod team never censored comments which his client sites but there is plenty of evidence that he is lying in his apology.

 

C. He claims Adapting to Night is completely original only to reveal that many of the characters from the comics were directly traced from a similar vector on the show.

 

D. Considering he was caught lying previously, it's very likely his claim that all of his art shown at cons was completely original is also false too.

 

There is a reason many artists and vendors in the community despise him, and it's not out simple jealousy for his financial wealth from the art he made but because he was suspected as a thief, and now he's caught as one too among his brutish tactics at coercing possible commissioners away from his competitors table and towards his own instead among other things.

 

First off, I'm not trying to pick a fight or annoy anyone with this, I'm just trying to understand the artist and that's why I'm questioning all of these points. I hope I don't come off as annoying, I'll try to be understanding on both parts in this, I'm very aware of how naive I am at times.

 

Part A is very wrong of him to have as a rule since he's doing it himself, that's a dick-move for sure. Are you certain he didn't mean tracing his personal art, though? Or was it just tracing in general??

 

How will we know he's lying in his apology if we don't give him another chance to 'redeem' himself after this big reveal and bomb of emotion among the fandom? I always believe that people can get better after doing something that is considered to be wrong.

 

Well, my only assumption there is that he must get his poses from somewhere. I know that from being an artist myself, I often look at vectors and draw after them whenever I can't get it quite right on my own. We all have art blocks now and again and if you've promised plenty of fans to release comic strips on a regular basis with dead lines, I can only imagine how hard it must be when you can't get a pose quite as you'd like it to look, so he simply had to look something up and take help from it. It's just a natural inspiration source to go to and get help from. I know tracing isn't completely right, but is it really that big of a crime to get some help from offical poses now and again to help you keep going?

 

As I mentioned before, he might be lying again as he did previously, but doesn't he deserve a second chance? I personally don't see this as a big crime, but I can definitely see why people are upset about it and that people don't trust him after all the faults he's been doing.. It's probably hard to trust him again after having your trust let down by an artist you really like, but most of his art really is all original. Can't we forgive him for using some help and get inspired by the official pony vectors now and again, like any other human being would do when they're left with that kind of art block and/or downfall with creativity and inspiration? 

I'm sure he had a reason behind all of this, much like any other person would. He has been acting a bit rudely for sure, seeing what people are writing about him, but, he's only human. 

[Nuke87654 1,849]

First off, I'm not trying to pick a fight or annoy anyone with this, I'm just trying to understand the artist and that's why I'm questioning all of these points. I hope I don't come off as annoying, I'll try to be understanding on both parts in this, I'm very aware of how naive I am at times.

 

Part A is very wrong of him to have as a rule since he's doing it himself, that's a dick-move for sure. Are you certain he didn't mean tracing his personal art, though? Or was it just tracing in general??

 

How will we know he's lying in his apology if we don't give him another chance to 'redeem' himself after this big reveal and bomb of emotion among the fandom? I always believe that people can get better after doing something that is considered to be wrong.

 

Well, my only assumption there is that he must get his poses from somewhere. I know that from being an artist myself, I often look at vectors and draw after them whenever I can't get it quite right on my own. We all have art blocks now and again and if you've promised plenty of fans to release comic strips on a regular basis with dead lines, I can only imagine how hard it must be when you can't get a pose quite as you'd like it to look, so he simply had to look something up and take help from it. It's just a natural inspiration source to go to and get help from. I know tracing isn't completely right, but is it really that big of a crime to get some help from offical poses now and again to help you keep going?

 

As I mentioned before, he might be lying again as he did previously, but doesn't he deserve a second chance? I personally don't see this as a big crime, but I can definitely see why people are upset about it and that people don't trust him after all the faults he's been doing.. It's probably hard to trust him again after having your trust let down by an artist you really like, but most of his art really is all original. Can't we forgive him for using some help and get inspired by the official pony vectors now and again, like any other human being would do when they're left with that kind of art block and/or downfall with creativity and inspiration? 

I'm sure he had a reason behind all of this, much like any other person would. He has been acting a bit rudely for sure, seeing what people are writing about him, but, he's only human. 

 

 

You're fine, you're not upsetting me. I'm merely shedding light of what I've found. 

 

It seems like tracing in general as the commenter didn't mentioned tracing his art the issue but if you're caught tracing you're banned. Now this isn't confirmed or anything however.

 

From what he says, comparing his sayings to what evidence is found and if the evidence contradicts what he says, then he's lying. That was what Horse News did in this regard.

 

But to look up the show's vectors, use it to trace his art from, claim credit his work is original without giving proper credit, and make a profit off of it is a huge issue as he was willing to commit plagiarism just to be able to get a steady sum of cash from his art. It's understandable if he wants to trace to practice, but to do the things I mention is where he crosses past that line.

 

Sure he's only human, but because he was willing to commit plagiarism and knowing how badly art communities react to any artist that is caught plagiarizing and making success out of it, it will definitely take him a long time for him to recover as he's now under suspicion from the fandom and especially from the artists and vendors he has spurned and antagonized previously after they've been vindicated of their suspicions of his art.  

 

It is a lesson he will learn and it is a very important one in life in that we all have to understand that with our fame, we carry a certain prestige and expectations of integrity. If we have shown our behavior deserves scorn for dishonest work, then we deserve to be punished for committing such a crime just to simply achieve an edge over our competition.

[Silver Letter 1,832]

If this person is able to redeem himself then good for him. I am not willing to do much to give him any benefit of the doubt. He has gone for far too long without doing the right thing and admitting that he traced. I will still keep my word and no longer give him my business. Tracing is still something which upsets me and I hope that making an example out of drawponies will discourage the practice from anybody else.

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 2,978]

I consider it problematic that people are saying something "Stop bashing on drawponies. You're just saying that because you're jealous/He already apologized/Tracing is not even a big deal/etc." Many don't seem to realize that people have justified reason to be upset with him or they don't completely understand the situation. If you accept his apology, that's fine but don't try to force other people to accept it especially to those who looked up to him and/or financially invested in him who rightfully feel betrayed; chances are that those who easily accepted his apology weren't really invested in drawponies other than being a Deviantart watcher. It should be expected that he should earn his trust back instead of have people easily restore their trust in him again.

 

I was amused to be called a "heartless cruel bastard" by a seemingly drawponies fanatic/whiteknight when I mentioned how fewer people are going to want to financially support him and that I would prefer to pay a legitimate artist than drawponies; the user accused those people of being "heartless cruel bastards" for contributing to drawponies's potential financial ruin by not funding him (doesn't matter if you feel betrayed/scammed). The user stated that he would support drawponies no matter what and everyone who are not on drawponies's side are just haters...

 

*Sigh*

 

I feel I should mention that though drawponies is still making significant income, it has dropped from 290.01USD to 255.01USD (~12% reduction) a few days ago.

Edit: Now 252.01USD.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Tsaritsa Luna

[SteffieMusings 295]

I had noticed how their work/ poses looked suspiciously like scenes from the show, but I didn't really think much of it. Didn't really watch them.

 

The fact that they're making money off of it is a huge no-no :/.

[gone~ 614]

Intellectual property is absurd anyways, so I don't believe that Drawponies did anything wrong by tracing or selling traced works. It was wrong to lie about the tracing, though.

[Mantis01 19]

Intellectual property is absurd anyways, so I don't believe that Drawponies did anything wrong by tracing or selling traced works. It was wrong to lie about the tracing, though.

He not suppose to sell trace pictures, 1.It not his original work 2. He not giving credit for the original artist. 3.he making money off of copyrighted materials.

 

It is a disgrace to artists.

 

Tom Preston was criticised for tracing Big Ben, knowing that he could draw it, but instead he became lazy and trace it and decided to sale the picture for money