Why can't Anti-Bronies give the show/fandom a chance?

[TubeSock2018 325]

That's not where the point of victim-blaming. The  victim-blaming was this (in bold):

 

 

The tools to block and report them should be there. The problem is you saying their insults shouldn't bother them. You can't dictate what should bother them or not. People are individual, and they will react to things very differently. Many will react to "autistic" as a slur demeaning the mentally handicap, and many will be bothered to the point of feeling psychologically hurt. Even if you block them, those words will be etched into their conscience.

 

Anti-bronies should be blocked and reported. Unfortunately, that's not enough to combat the trolling, including the fact that anti-bronies love to troll bronies.

Alrighty then. If you say so.

[cider float 2,538]

There's nothing gross or problematic about bronies who like, draw, write, or animate fan content full of gore, vore, and porn whatsoever. Liking really gross fanwork doesn't mean they don't like or appreciate the fan-friendly nature of the show. You have plenty of male bronies who like clop and gore and are as much of a positive contributor in society as those who don't. Bronies who like porn, gore, and vore are no more or less a brony than those who don't. Any non-brony or anti-brony who believes otherwise is displaying sexist bigotry and are no worse than the bronies and SJWs who whine about FIM R34.

 

BTW, there are female bronies who like and work on clop/vore/gore as much an male bronies. So instead of them being sexist, antifeminist assholes like the right-wing propagandists on Fox News, perhaps they should stop stereotyping and educate themselves about the fandom and people themselves?

 

 

 

You don't fully understand how hurtful these slurs are. By saying these cyberbullies shouldn't bother you, you're telling them it's your fault you're being bullied and that you should toughen up. That's victim-blaming, and it makes no sense. Some people are more sensitive to insults than others, and that's okay. It means they have the ability to empathize. But what's not okay is tolerating bigots who resort to these slurs. Blocking them works in a way because they're not attacking you to your face, but it doesn't eliminate the problem. Instead, the troll either will try to do something worse to get a reaction from you or go after somebody else. Like "Don't feed the troll," blocking only passes the problem onto someone else. But even if they do block them, the insult remains in the victim's brain, and the feeling of pain isn't going to go away that fast. A grave insult like "autist" as an ableist slur by an anti-brony to a depressed brony may be enough for him or her to attempt suicide. Blocking them is a surface solution, but the best way is to stop tolerating the trolling, whether it's anti-bronies trolling bronies or trolls attacking people altogether.

Ignoring anti bronies is not self blame, it's the best defense to avoid needless argument and wasting time. Toughening up is a strength of character, a virtue, people will always attack you for what traits and actions you choose to make, it's up to you where you spend your valuable time and energy on. Wasting it on anti bronies is not a pursuit that I will benefit from. I do not love and tolerate I just cut them right out of my senses.

[Dark Qiviut 22,447]

@@cider float,

1. Many anti-bronies love to troll bronies. But you're wrong by calling it a good defense at any level. It may avoid wasting time, but trolls want any kind of reaction. Ignoring them is a reaction. What a troll doesn't want is conversation being stifled. Blocking a troll doesn't stifle reactions; it passes them onto someone else and spreads the problem. "Don't feed the troll" is part of the cyberbullying problem, because it immediately blames the victim for being trolled.
2. "Toughening up" is easier said than done. Not everyone can do it. To suggest victims of trolls to toughen up is to encourage the bully and blame the victim. It doesn't empower victims. If anything, it could isolate them more.

Like I said, trolls shouldn't be tolerated at any level. Anti-bronies that troll bronies shouldn't be tolerated at any level. But rather than blame the victim, empower the victim.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[gamecubeguy214 2,512]

Because most anti-bronies grew up with the MLP that was called ''girly'', so they think modern MLP is girly too. The people who grew up in the 2000's who never heard of MLP G4 and only heard of MLP G3 and under, they think it's for little girls. Older MLP sure is, but they don't know about G4, which is clearly the best show to ever exist.

[Dark Qiviut 22,447]

@@Commissar Alexer, @@CookieK, @@Larkybird~, @@Lance Shield, I can definitely see why a lot of bronies get pissed off:

1. There's nothing factually bad or wrong about Rule 34. A lot complain about porn, gore, and vore plaguing and ruining the fandom or ruining FIM, and too many anti-bronies stereotype bronies as freaks. One problem: R34 has existed long before any of us were born, and a lot of women are into this stuff, too. But liking this stuff doesn't mean there's something wrong with them or don't like the family-friendly nature. People who like clop, gore, vore, shipping, or whatever are just as "normal" a brony as the bronies who aren't into this stuff.
   
   The people who like FIM porn, gore, and vore aren't ruining their love for the show. They're ruining their own love for the show.
2. People talk and spread the show around through conversation, references, art, and icons because they like the show. As long as they're following the rules, they have every right to talk about it. How does this show become popular? By word-of-mouth via social media. Not just Facebook, but Twitter and forums, too.
3. Too many people use bronies as a reason to not watch FIM or scapegoat them as a reason to no longer like it or be a brony separatist. There's no excuse to use them for your decision. If they're going to stop watching the show, never blame the fanbase for any reason. I chewed out Tommy Oliver for scapegoating the brony fandom a few months ago, and I'm not afraid to chew more out for this.
4. Far too many stereotype bronies as some kind of plague in society and generalize the entire fandom. A fandom is a group of fans, but each fan is individual. It's stupid for anyone to lump a small, loud group of bad fans into what is full of fantastic people. Call out the badly behaving fans, but the second you stereotype or generalize, you look worse than the bronies you don't like.
5. Other fandoms getting hate is not an excuse. It's not an excuse for anyone to generalize, stereotype, or bash other fandoms. Likewise, it's not okay for anti-bronies to bash bronies and the brony fandom.

Alexar, you're not establishing credibility by lumping furries (another marginalized fandom) with a completely different fandom and implying how it's okay for bronies to be stereotyped. Lance, you're not helping your own credibility by using the "bronies are oversensitive" stereotype as a strawman. Hell, none of you are validating your own opinions by stereotyping fans and, by virtue of your subtexts, giving the anti-bronies' stereotyping a pass. It's not okay under any circumstances.

 

Point blank, there are no good reasons for anti-bronies to bash bronies or the entire brony fandom.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,769]

This fandom's victim complex is big as the furry ones.

 

No wonder everyone thinks you are furries too...

To be entirely fair, I have seen countless moments on Youtube comments where a brony has an MLP avatar, they make a comment about a video, their comment does not mention MLP AT ALL, and some people will come along and dehumanize that person for just having an MLP avatar. That's when you know things are pretty crazy in terms of some haters. They often bring up the show more than any of us ever will! I don't think being offended by being called someone that makes love to horses in a random video is having a 'victim complex'.

 

I believe that one of the hater things is that they just despise seeing MLP everywhere nowadays, they already think it is girly and stupid of course but now thanks to us, they see it all the time and some are desperate to treat us horribly because of it. It is a sad reality of the internet but luckily I am seeing a decline in this sort of thing, but it is still there and it still is an issue. 

[Guest]

 

 

Our fandom has a major victim complex. While most fandoms openly acknowledge and even joke about their faults. Whenever someone points out a flaw in our fandom, we take it as if they just stabbed our cat...

 

 

Bingo, Yahtzee, hole in one, we have a winner.

 

You hit the nail on the head. Half the reason why these "anti-bronies" or "trolls" or whatever you wish to call them behave the way they do is because they know that reaction will be had, and overreaction will ensue. These people don't really care about any points being proven, they care about reaction and their own amusement. Responding to them or acknowledging them only encourages them.

 

 

 

It's also weird how bronies hear one bad comment and then they act like a whole army is out to get them when in fact they're the ones ganging up on that one critic. It gets unbelievable.

 

Yup, people take criticism of the fandom too much to heart. This in turn makes other people who like the show not want to associate with the fandom because they don't want anything to do with the overreactions.

 

 

 

The tools to block and report them should be there. The problem is you saying their insults shouldn't bother them. You can't dictate what should bother them or not. People are individual, and they will react to things very differently. Many will react to "autistic" as a slur demeaning the mentally handicap, and many will be bothered to the point of feeling psychologically hurt. Even if you block them, those words will be etched into their conscience.

 

Words can be hurtful, yes but they only have the power you give them. I know it doesn't seem "fair" to tell people that they need to walk away from insults and not let them get to them, but really if life were 100% fair we wouldn't have the issue in the first place. It's not victim blaming, it's giving practical advice. Sorry, but people who behave badly or engage in bad behavior a lot of the time do not do so simply because they are uneducated, they do so because they wish to engage in such behavior. Sure, realistically in a fair world, people should be telling those engaging in such behavior to stop, but we don't live in a fair world. It makes more sense to preach what is more feasible to happen versus what is less likely. I can preach that people need to stop name calling until the cows come home, but I am fairly sure it won't change a damn thing. It makes more sense to get everyone to stop giving names so much power in the first place. Those who engage in said behavior do so from a position of power, when you strip that power, the problem diminishes.

 

 

 

any anti-bronies love to troll bronies. But you're wrong by calling it a good defense at any level. It may avoid wasting time, but trolls want any kind of reaction. Ignoring them is a reaction. What a troll doesn't want is conversation being stifled. Blocking a troll doesn't stifle reactions; it passes them onto someone else and spreads the problem. "Don't feed the troll" is part of the cyberbullying problem, because it immediately blames the victim for being trolled.

 

It depends on how people look at it. When I tell people don't feed trolls I am offering general advice, not blaming anyone. Ignoring trolls has proven the only feasible defense against them. No reaction is not a reaction. Yes, they will go on to the next person, but that's why we have to tell that person to ignore them as well. I'd rather we live in a world where people learn to ignore things than take everything to heart. We live in a lawsuit heavy world as it is, and advocating people to go after trolls in any capacity is just encouraging people to give their words more power.

 

Trolls don't care about anything beyond their own amusement. Once you understand that, you hold the key to defeating them: don't give it to them. They want to see you try and argue with them and defend yourself. That's their aim. The only winning move is not to play because at the end of the day no amount of lecturing is going to convince them to see your way. You'd be better off using that energy to educate people who have legitimate questions about the brony fandom.

 

 

 

"Toughening up" is easier said than done. Not everyone can do it. To suggest victims of trolls to toughen up is to encourage the bully and blame the victim. It doesn't empower victims. If anything, it could isolate them more.

 

Now that brings me to the next point of my one-two punch for combating trolls. The second part after ignoring the trolls is to stand by the victims. Don't give in to the trolls and give them the time of day, but DO stand with the victims and let them know that they are not alone and that the words of trolls are not the words of truth and have no power over them. Empower them by reminding them that trolls don't hold power over them.

 

If we all ignore trolls and be there for our fellow men and women who are being bullied, then we hold the key to victory.

 

 

Ironically, DQ, the more you get up in arms to defend bronies, it really just doesn't help the fandom at all. It just makes it seem more and more like they need to be defended for something, and really why is it such a big deal? I'm not a brony, but I don't spend my life hating bronies. If you are one, then good for you and just live your life. People are going to attack stuff you like and make every excuse not to like it that they can in your life. It's better to just let it be and focus on what makes you happy rather than spend so much time and energy defending what you like.

[RavenholmZombie 1,330]

At this point, I'm starting to think that this topic belongs in the Debate Pit.

 

Also, @Dark Qiviut, It's not nice to put other people's opinions on blast like that.

 

I will agree that my post was somewhat of a strawman however, from my personal experiences, I do stand by it.

[TubeSock2018 325]

Ignoring anti bronies is not self blame, it's the best defense to avoid needless argument and wasting time. Toughening up is a strength of character, a virtue, people will always attack you for what traits and actions you choose to make, it's up to you where you spend your valuable time and energy on. Wasting it on anti bronies is not a pursuit that I will benefit from. I do not love and tolerate I just cut them right out of my senses.

I agree. People spend too much time arguing with anti-bronies that it gets to the point that it's looking for trouble.

Someone calls a brony an autistic individual and then someone tries to but in and say "hey, that's not true" and it's like, do you honestly think you're going to convince this person otherwise?

I just block them. I've got enough problems in life to care if someone called me autistic. I know I'm not, so who cares.

Bingo, Yahtzee, hole in one, we have a winner.

 

You hit the nail on the head. Half the reason why these "anti-bronies" or "trolls" or whatever you wish to call them behave the way they do is because they know that reaction will be had, and overreaction will ensue. These people don't really care about any points being proven, they care about reaction and their own amusement. Responding to them or acknowledging them only encourages them.

 

 

 

Yup, people take criticism of the fandom too much to heart. This in turn makes other people who like the show not want to associate with the fandom because they don't want anything to do with the overreactions.

 

 

 

Words can be hurtful, yes but they only have the power you give them. I know it doesn't seem "fair" to tell people that they need to walk away from insults and not let them get to them, but really if life were 100% fair we wouldn't have the issue in the first place. It's not victim blaming, it's giving practical advice. Sorry, but people who behave badly or engage in bad behavior a lot of the time do not do so simply because they are uneducated, they do so because they wish to engage in such behavior. Sure, realistically in a fair world, people should be telling those engaging in such behavior to stop, but we don't live in a fair world. It makes more sense to preach what is more feasible to happen versus what is less likely. I can preach that people need to stop name calling until the cows come home, but I am fairly sure it won't change a damn thing. It makes more sense to get everyone to stop giving names so much power in the first place. Those who engage in said behavior do so from a position of power, when you strip that power, the problem diminishes.

 

 

 

It depends on how people look at it. When I tell people don't feed trolls I am offering general advice, not blaming anyone. Ignoring trolls has proven the only feasible defense against them. No reaction is not a reaction. Yes, they will go on to the next person, but that's why we have to tell that person to ignore them as well. I'd rather we live in a world where people learn to ignore things than take everything to heart. We live in a lawsuit heavy world as it is, and advocating people to go after trolls in any capacity is just encouraging people to give their words more power.

 

Trolls don't care about anything beyond their own amusement. Once you understand that, you hold the key to defeating them: don't give it to them. They want to see you try and argue with them and defend yourself. That's their aim. The only winning move is not to play because at the end of the day no amount of lecturing is going to convince them to see your way. You'd be better off using that energy to educate people who have legitimate questions about the brony fandom.

 

 

 

Now that brings me to the next point of my one-two punch for combating trolls. The second part after ignoring the trolls is to stand by the victims. Don't give in to the trolls and give them the time of day, but DO stand with the victims and let them know that they are not alone and that the words of trolls are not the words of truth and have no power over them. Empower them by reminding them that trolls don't hold power over them.

 

If we all ignore trolls and be there for our fellow men and women who are being bullied, then we hold the key to victory.

 

 

Ironically, DQ, the more you get up in arms to defend bronies, it really just doesn't help the fandom at all. It just makes it seem more and more like they need to be defended for something, and really why is it such a big deal? I'm not a brony, but I don't spend my life hating bronies. If you are one, then good for you and just live your life. People are going to attack stuff you like and make every excuse not to like it that they can in your life. It's better to just let it be and focus on what makes you happy rather than spend so much time and energy defending what you like.

This is exactly what I'm trying to say.

[cider float 2,538]

@@cider float,

• Many anti-bronies love to troll bronies. But you're wrong by calling it a good defense at any level. It may avoid wasting time, but trolls want any kind of reaction. Ignoring them is a reaction. What a troll doesn't want is conversation being stifled. Blocking a troll doesn't stifle reactions; it passes them onto someone else and spreads the problem. "Don't feed the troll" is part of the cyberbullying problem, because it immediately blames the victim for being trolled.
• "Toughening up" is easier said than done. Not everyone can do it. To suggest victims of trolls to toughen up is to encourage the bully and blame the victim. It doesn't empower victims. If anything, it could isolate them more.

Like I said, trolls shouldn't be tolerated at any level. Anti-bronies that troll bronies shouldn't be tolerated at any level. But rather than blame the victim, empower the victim.

If ignoring is a reaction to you it's a reaction that ends all reactions that sounds favorable to me. "Don't feed the troll" is advice and demeaning the troll not blaming the receiver it's treating him lower than you and no longer as equals. To try and entertain a troll that will repeat the same thing with no interest to take the conversation to a professional level is a pointless endeavor.

Edited August 11, 2015 by cider float

[CookieK 74]

@@Dark Qiviut, , I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear I just didn't know what to call the fans of mlp that just happen to not associate themselves with bronies I didn't know what else to call 'em.  I also didn't know anti brony only implied bullies and trolls I just thought it just meant anyone who doesn't like the brony fandom for any given reason.  If my original comment sounded mean I'm horribly sorry I'm super sensitive and I tend not to explain things well.  

Edited August 11, 2015 by CookieK

[Bendy 1,821]

Some people have given the show a chance. But continue to hate it. Personally, I think they should do better things with their time. 

 

But there's a lot of things that could draw hate to it. Clop (even the adult ponies... excluding the foalcon) As in many fan fiction would make quite few people think that means Bronies are sick pedophiles that live in a dark basement. Even if they only like the adult ponies.

 

Fan fiction like Fall of Equestria for example would make many 'normal person' run away screaming out of our fandom.

 

 

Oh and the misanthropes... Yes, the misanthropes.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Bendy

[Guest]

If ignoring is a reaction to you it's a reaction that ends all reactions that sounds favorable to me. "Don't feed the troll" is advice and demeaning the troll not blaming the receiver it's treating him lower than you and no longer as equals. To try and entertain a troll that will repeat the same thing with no interest to take the conversation to a professional level is a pointless endeavor.

Yup. When you say stuff like "don't feed the troll" you're treating the troll like a child. Telling people not to feed them like they are some kind of zoo animal. Thus empowering the victim while taking power away from the troll.

[Monsoon 1,662]

To be honest I've given up on people like that it's pretty clear that they are blinded by their ignorance

[Commissar Alexer 763]

 

 

Alexar, you're not establishing credibility by lumping furries (another marginalized fandom) with a completely different fandom and implying how it's okay for bronies to be stereotyped

Furries have the same problem as the bronies, both are seen as people who want to...'snuggle' animals.

 

Oh and many bronies are furries too and vica verse.

 

To be entirely fair, I have seen countless moments on Youtube comments where a brony has an MLP avatar, they make a comment about a video, their comment does not mention MLP AT ALL, and some people will come along and dehumanize that person for just having an MLP avatar. That's when you know things are pretty crazy in terms of some haters. They often bring up the show more than any of us ever will! I don't think being offended by being called someone that makes love to horses in a random video is having a 'victim complex'.

 

I believe that one of the hater things is that they just despise seeing MLP everywhere nowadays, they already think it is girly and stupid of course but now thanks to us, they see it all the time and some are desperate to treat us horribly because of it. It is a sad reality of the internet but luckily I am seeing a decline in this sort of thing, but it is still there and it still is an issue. 

 

>Youtube

Yeah....

 

Just for the record, every avatar pic or name has a chance to spawn a reaction. It may be that brony pics or names have a higher chance but that is not unique to them.

 

I think that most people wouldn't have cared about the show if a good part of the fandom haven't started their 'Join the herd' mentality.

 

 

 

 

 

One interesting thing i heard once was that for example, most anti-furries were actually themselves furries. Honestly, i wouldn't be suprised if most 'haters', 'trolls' and anti-bronies are actually themselves bronies.

They surely would have the knowledge for it....i mean afterall, one would have to search for all the naughty things the fandom does.

[DaringDoNot 39]

Not only do you have the "haters" who troll us, but what about the butthurt bronies? They go around shaming people because they don't like the show. Not everybody is gonna like the show. That goes for all TV shows, not just MLP. Most people ( including me) don't care if you don't like the show, it's not for everyone, that's your own personal opinion and you're entitled to it. I've seen bronies that are like " OMG you don't watch our show! You're going to burn in hell!" And some attack non-bronies just like the trolls attack us. Both sides can be at fault.

[honk friend 1,978]

It's not pushy Bronies that are the problem. It's gross Bronies that are the problem.

 

I never had any problem with the level of pushiness Bronies have done. Sure, it can be annoying, but it's not something I'd really judge the fandom over. In fact, most claims of pushiness I've seen were aimed at cases where there was no pushiness whatsoever (like three members on a forum had MLP avatars and someone made a topic "Man, why does everyone here have MLP avatars?" LOL. Ridiculous. Yet they ignore the massive amount of avatars for male nerd-accepted brands... Of course.)

 

Grossness is where I draw the line. Grossness is where the general populace looks at the fandom and instead of seeing a group of grown men liking MLP for what it is, they see that they like it sexualized and violent... And let me tell you, that only works to confirm their culturally-imbued ideas that men shouldn't like things for girls.

 

If only the Brony fandom could have done the opposite... I wished... But some things can never change, I guess.

 

Honestly? Not even close. People are far more likely to reject a fandom when their experience with it is fans trying to shove the subject of interest down their throat, normal people couldn't give a shit less about what you get off too. While I'm on that point, enjoying graphic or sexually explicit content produced by your fandom doesn't make you "gross", being painfully open about it does.

[CandyStrike 603]

I think it might be fear.

 

I think a lot of people don't give the show a chance because they're afraid they might like it.  And if they're male and they like it then they might have to re-examine their ideas about gender norms.

 

I think a lot of people don't give the fandom a chance because depending on what you've seen of it, it can be terrifying. I very much avoided this fandom for a long time because my intro to it was through 4chan.  And even when you accept that maybe not everyone is like that, it is daunting to join the fandom because there are some like that. Most people don't want to join a group when they know there are creepy members because it feels like a poor reflection on themselves and because they have to explain to others that they're not like that.

[Xeltor23 704]

You're on the Internet. What exactly did you expect? And honestly, MLP, the last 20 years, was so girlish it gives you a heartattack. I agree that they should watch the show and give a proper opinion. It's not like their opinion was based on nothing- just nearly nothing but stereotypes. Of course, they sometimes act like complete a**holes when confronted to a brony, but what can we do? The internet is such a wonderful place *sigh*

[10InTheTardis 509]

Well, I know a story about an anti-brony who watched the show.

 

Once upon a time, in the summer of 2013, a young 10InTheTardis was transforming from the stupid, annoying, bad-meme-using (Memes so old and crusty you had to blow the dust off of them just to read the post type of memes.), brony-hating, did I mention annoying person that was him when he was 11 years old, to the cool, awesome, funny, Dank meme using (Pepes so rare, they're not even on the endangered species list, because the people who made the list haven't even heard of them), physically attractive and all around best-guy-ever person that was his 12-14 year old self. During this time, he decided to actually WATCH the show he claimed he hated, to see if he actually hated it, and he didn't. The end.

[White 189]

Giving the show a chance doesn't automatically make people like it. Also, Each community has its own group of haters. For what I have noticed, some bronies are somehow paying too much attention to their haters.

Edited February 4, 2016 by White

[Dark Qiviut 22,447]

"Don't feed the troll" is advice and demeaning the troll not blaming the receiver it's treating him lower than you and no longer as equals.

Yup. When you say stuff like "don't feed the troll" you're treating the troll like a child. Telling people not to feed them like they are some kind of zoo animal. Thus empowering the victim while taking power away from the troll.

When I tell people don't feed trolls I am offering general advice, not blaming anyone. Ignoring trolls has proven the only feasible defense against them.

It's not victim blaming, it's giving practical advice.

That's the intention, but there's a big difference between intention and implication. When you hear insults outdoors, you may be able to ignore them; you can get them ejected or arrested for disorderly conduct (or hate speech in European countries if they spew slurs). Online, it's much more different. Insults spewed at you don't go away; when they're online, they're there forever.

 

When you tell the target "don't feed the troll," you're telling the victim that the victim is responsible for being trolled. That there's some level of etiquette in order to not be trolled. You're not silencing the troll. You're silencing yourself. To say, "don't feed the troll" is to tolerate the problem and blame the victim. Instead of giving power to the target, you're giving power to the aggressor. Trolls want an audience. Pretending the problem doesn't exist allows these assholes to spread their hate to other corners of the web.

 

Why did "don't feed the troll" work a long time ago? Because trolls were basically pests. They wanted to get a rise out of you. Ignoring it from all ends could work. You can't apply "don't feed the troll" universally today because trolling is much more vicious now. There's no limit to modern trolling; if there's a line not to cross, they'll cross it. You have cases of trolls harassing, stalking, threatening, swatting, and doxxing. All within the past five years alone. A lot of trolling today relies on making the target suffer to the point where the bullying is everywhere they go. Sometimes the cyberbullying gets so bad, they may attempt suicide just so they can get away from it.

 

Words can be hurtful, yes but they only have the power you give them.

Easier said than done. A lot of insults have inherent hate in them, such as ethnic slurs. You may not react to the troll personally, but that doesn't mean others will nor shouldn't there be any consequences for the person using the slur. Even if you don't react externally, it doesn't mean they won't hurt internally. Slurs attack people at the very core; they're made to hate. There should be absolutely zero tolerance for them.

 

Words can hurt and will hurt. Even worse, words can kill. The target is another human being with raw emotions like ourselves, and each limit is individual. Sometimes it takes just one vile comment to seal their fate. We've had bronies called a "retard," "autistic," or "faggot" by anti-bronies as a way to get a sick laugh. We've had trolls call for the SWAT team on other gamers, a troll tactic that can get the target and his/her family shot and killed. For example, look what happened with Megan Meier, a fourteen-year-old who committed suicide because a woman (under a troll account) told her on MySpace the world will be better off without her. Look what happened to a Canadian citizen from the Lizard Squad, who was arrested partially for swatting his targets. Look at all of Encyclopedia Dramatica's DeviantArt targets, nearly all of whom were harassed at some point or another. You can't ignore how powerful words can be because people get cyberbullied every single day.

 

Trolls don't care about anything beyond their own amusement. Once you understand that, you hold the key to defeating them: don't give it to them. They want to see you try and argue with them and defend yourself. That's their aim. The only winning move is not to play because at the end of the day no amount of lecturing is going to convince them to see your way. You'd be better off using that energy to educate people who have legitimate questions about the brony fandom.

This type of trolling only worked on the comedian trolls. All they want to do is waste your time. Trolls who are assholes don't give a damn what you do. They pick a target and want to make you fear for your own safety. Why? Because they either don't like you or want to fulfill their sick lust for making their victims suffer. This type of amusement can cost targets their lives. You can't apply "don't feed the troll" here: Asshole trolls don't care about that mantra. They'll do whatever it takes to break you down. These trolls are cyber terrorists; people are entitled to go online and not worry about their safety being compromised. One goal these cyber terrorists yearn for is to make them feel unsafe. That's not okay, and that's not something people should ignore and be silent about.

 

No reaction is not a reaction.

Silence from targets is a reaction because it's a behavior. The purpose of trolling is to control their target's behavior and the overall conversation. Silence is rewarding for a troll because it tells them that the target accepts the troll's presence. "Don't feed the troll" partially runs on the operant conditioning principle: reward or punishment depending on the behavior. It worked on little kids offline because the silence is deafening, especially from parents. But online, the environment is very different: We're not the trolls' parents, and many trolls aren't small kids. Plenty of trolls are adults and perhaps parents of kids. (Two of Fanfiction.net's most famous trolls were guardians of kids. One was a father of a newborn, the other an aunt; even though they don't visit the site anymore, both have massive cliques to this day.)

 

Sorry, but people who behave badly or engage in bad behavior a lot of the time do not do so simply because they are uneducated, they do so because they wish to engage in such behavior. Sure, realistically in a fair world, people should be telling those engaging in such behavior to stop, but we don't live in a fair world. It makes more sense to preach what is more feasible to happen versus what is less likely.

In other words, rather than call out the action of vandals who spraypainted hate symbols on park benches, merely get the community together and scrub it off. Ignore all the profane insults and obscene sharpie drawings and scratchiti on bathroom stalls and walls; paint it over instead.

 

Just because it's expected or tolerated doesn't mean it should be accepted. Trolling is a massive problem online and off. Sometimes, the trolling can drive their targets to suicide because they can't get away from it regardless of where they move to. (Amanda Todd's suicide is one of the most famous examples.) Trolling can't be accepted or tolerated, period. You may not speak to the troll personally, but it doesn't mean you should be passive about the problem. Blocking and reporting of trolls should be encouraged. If the trolling involves threats, out them like what former pitcher Curt Schilling did after Twitter trolls sent rape threats to his then-17-year-old daughter through him (and maybe report them to the police). But more needs to be done to solve this cyberbullying problem. Websites like Rotten Tomatoes disabled comments altogether because several critics received slurs and death threats. Others like The Huffington Post and ESPN force users to comment through Facebook to verify your identity and keep you accountable. But more needs to be done, yet there's no one-size-fit-all solution because the problem's so new.

 

1. Ironically, DQ, the more you get up in arms to defend bronies, it really just doesn't help the fandom at all.

 

2. It just makes it seem more and more like they need to be defended for something, and really why is it such a big deal?

1. You're wrong about this. When people spit out stereotypical vitriol, then you risk getting people who don't know about bronies actually buying the lies and bullshit coming from them. You have other bronies, documentaries, editorials, and positive news reports defending bronies because they're common punching bags online and off. A lot of the "criticism" aimed at bronies — shoving ponies, "grossness," the "neckbeard nerd" stereotype, sexist allegations against the idea that men can't enjoy the product — is a bunch of nonsense.
2. One of the basis of bigotry is generalizing/stereotyping. Often, online stereotypes bleed into everyday life. Not all that happens online remains confined there. A lot of fandoms and fans themselves are stereotyped and mocked just because they like a product. Bronies are one such example. I care because stereotyping and slurs are fucking disgusting.

Also, Dark Qiviut, It's not nice to put other people's opinions on blast like that.

When you post an opinion that's poor in quality, fallacious, or reliant on stereotypes, then you're not going to get a free pass, whether it's from me or somebody else. I called you out because the basis of your opinion about bronies having a victim complex was a strawman, and I don't let that slide.

 

Furries have the same problem as the bronies, both are seen as people who want to...'snuggle' animals.

 

Oh and many bronies are furries too and vica verse.

You're still trying to excuse the massive stereotype that I called you out earlier for. Many bronies are furries and vice-versa, but they're not the same. It's not okay to stereotype anyone in any fandom, period.

 

Not only do you have the "haters" who troll us, but what about the butthurt bronies?

The rest of your opinion (along with your OP) died the second you posted this line. Yes, people have a right to not like this show, and any brony who badly behaves to non-bronies should be called out. But you don't help your cause by using "butthurt," an ad hominem with sexist and homophobic implications.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[Guest]

That's the intention, but there's a big difference between intention and implication. When you hear insults outdoors, you may be able to ignore them; you can get them ejected or arrested for disorderly conduct (or hate speech in European countries if they spew slurs). Online, it's much more different. Insults spewed at you don't go away; when they're online, they're there forever.

 

When you tell the target "don't feed the troll," you're telling the victim that the victim is responsible for being trolled. That there's some level of etiquette in order to not be trolled. You're not silencing the troll. You're silencing yourself. To say, "don't feed the troll" is to tolerate the problem and blame the victim. Instead of giving power to the target, you're giving power to the aggressor. Trolls want an audience. Pretending the problem doesn't exist allows these assholes to spread their hate to other corners of the web.

 

Why did "don't feed the troll" work a long time ago? Because trolls were basically pests. They wanted to get a rise out of you. Ignoring it from all ends could work. You can't apply "don't feed the troll" universally today because trolling is much more vicious now. There's no limit to modern trolling; if there's a line not to cross, they'll cross it. You have cases of trolls harassing, stalking, threatening, swatting, and doxxing. All within the past five years alone. A lot of trolling today relies on making the target suffer to the point where the bullying is everywhere they go. Sometimes the cyberbullying gets so bad, they may attempt suicide just so they can get away from it.

 

Easier said than done. A lot of insults have inherent hate in them, such as ethnic slurs. You may not react to the troll personally, but that doesn't mean others will nor shouldn't there be any consequences for the person using the slur. Even if you don't react externally, it doesn't mean they won't hurt internally. Slurs attack people at the very core; they're made to hate. There should be absolutely zero tolerance for them.

 

Words can hurt and will hurt. Even worse, words can kill. The target is another human being with raw emotions like ourselves, and each limit is individual. Sometimes it takes just one vile comment to seal their fate. We've had bronies called a "retard," "autistic," or "faggot" by anti-bronies as a way to get a sick laugh. We've had trolls call for the SWAT team on other gamers, a troll tactic that can get the target and his/her family shot and killed. For example, look what happened with Megan Meier, a fourteen-year-old who committed suicide because a woman (under a troll account) told her on MySpace the world will be better off without her. Look what happened to a Canadian citizen from the Lizard Squad, who was arrested partially for swatting his targets. Look at all of Encyclopedia Dramatica's DeviantArt targets, nearly all of whom were harassed at some point or another. You can't ignore how powerful words can be because people get cyberbullied every single day.

 

This type of trolling only worked on the comedian trolls. All they want to do is waste your time. Trolls who are assholes don't give a damn what you do. They pick a target and want to make you fear for your own safety. Why? Because they either don't like you or want to fulfill their sick lust for making their victims suffer. This type of amusement can cost targets their lives. You can't apply "don't feed the troll" here: Asshole trolls don't care about that mantra. They'll do whatever it takes to break you down. These trolls are cyber terrorists; people are entitled to go online and not worry about their safety being compromised. One goal these cyber terrorists yearn for is to make them feel unsafe. That's not okay, and that's not something people should ignore and be silent about.

 

Silence from targets is a reaction because it's a behavior. The purpose of trolling is to control their target's behavior and the overall conversation. Silence is rewarding for a troll because it tells them that the target accepts the troll's presence. "Don't feed the troll" partially runs on the operant conditioning principle: reward or punishment depending on the behavior. It worked on little kids offline because the silence is deafening, especially from parents. But online, the environment is very different: We're not the trolls' parents, and many trolls aren't small kids. Plenty of trolls are adults and perhaps parents of kids. (Two of Fanfiction.net's most famous trolls were guardians of kids. One was a father of a newborn, the other an aunt; even though they don't visit the site anymore, both have massive cliques to this day.)

 

 

 

In other words, rather than call out the action of vandals who spraypainted hate symbols on park benches, merely get the community together and scrub it off. Ignore all the profane insults and obscene sharpie drawings and scratchiti on bathroom stalls and walls; paint it over instead.

 

Just because it's expected or tolerated doesn't mean it should be accepted. Trolling is a massive problem online and off. Sometimes, the trolling can drive their targets to suicide because they can't get away from it regardless of where they move to. (Amanda Todd's suicide is one of the most famous examples.) Trolling can't be accepted or tolerated, period. You may not speak to the troll personally, but it doesn't mean you should be passive about the problem. Blocking and reporting of trolls should be encouraged. If the trolling involves threats, out them like what former pitcher Curt Schilling did after Twitter trolls sent rape threats to his then-17-year-old daughter through him (and maybe report them to the police). But more needs to be done to solve this cyberbullying problem. Websites like Rotten Tomatoes disabled comments altogether because several critics received slurs and death threats. Others like The Huffington Post and ESPN force users to comment through Facebook to verify your identity and keep you accountable. But more needs to be done, yet there's no one-size-fit-all solution because the problem's so new.

 

1. You're wrong about this. When people spit out stereotypical vitriol, then you risk getting people who don't know about bronies actually buying the lies and bullshit coming from them. You have other bronies, documentaries, editorials, and positive news reports defending bronies because they're common punching bags online and off. A lot of the "criticism" aimed at bronies — shoving ponies, "grossness," the "neckbeard nerd" stereotype, sexist allegations against the idea that men can't enjoy the product — is a bunch of nonsense.
2. One of the basis of bigotry is generalizing/stereotyping. Often, online stereotypes bleed into everyday life. Not all that happens online remains confined there. A lot of fandoms and fans themselves are stereotyped and mocked just because they like a product. Bronies are one such example. I care because stereotyping and slurs are fucking disgusting.

When you post an opinion that's poor in quality, fallacious, or reliant on stereotypes, then you're not going to get a free pass, whether it's from me or somebody else. I called you out because the basis of your opinion about bronies having a victim complex was a strawman, and I don't let that slide.

 

You're still trying to excuse the massive stereotype that I called you out earlier for. Many bronies are furries and vice-versa, but they're not the same. It's not okay to stereotype anyone in any fandom, period.

 

The rest of your opinion (along with your OP) died the second you posted this line. Yes, people have a right to not like this show, and any brony who badly behaves to non-bronies should be called out. But you don't help your cause by using "butthurt," an ad hominem with sexist and homophobic implications.

Since I don't want to turn this topic that's not in the debate forum into a bigger debate, I'll just nod and say you make some good points but some I don't agree with. That being said, I'd be interested in discussing this with your further outside of this thread.

[Guest]

Firstly, your average person who does not know anything about this show nor the fandom. If that person see's a male or even an older female wearing a shirt or something related to this show. Those people are going to already have strange preconceptions about that person wearing the mlp merchandise. The majority of people know that My Little Pony is a show which was originally intended for the viewing of children, girls for that matter. Any person out there seeing people, that are adults, who are interested in this show are automatically going to be grossed out and I can guarantee that they will judge harshly against those people. It's natural though because my reaction towards the fandom upon first discovering it was being weirded/grossed out. I couldn't understand why guys... guys of my AGE were obsessing about a cartoon (meant for little girls). The whole idea of that is just flatout strange and I fully understand the hate this fandom gets as unfortunate as that is... But it wasn't until I watched the show for myself and began liking it for the reasons I enjoyed the show myself. I don't expect anyone to understand my reasons for liking this show other than the fact I thought this was a really nice cartoon with a lot of great humor/characters to it. 

 

I'm slowly not caring what others think of me nor the things I like anymore either these days. Those people who just want to troll and be mean assholes to others trying to bully others for liking this show... well those kinds of people should be dealt with or ignored. All in all there are always going to be people who will never understand this show nor why people have become to enjoy this show. It's inevitable and it is only until that person watches the show for themselves to see whether or not they like the show. No one out there is obligated to like it either and that is cool. But it does irritate me that I can't love this show or wear things about this show with out being judged or being treated badly...

 

 

some bronies are somehow paying too much attention to their haters.

 

That's true too an extent it is hard for some though because for some the fact of trying to ignore what others think isn't as easy for some as it maybe for others.

 

Also a lot of bronies take this show way too seriously or have felt as if they *must* shove this show down other's throats... when clearly they need to understand that not everyone is going to like this show and that is perfectly fine. Also too some bronies I have seen flaunt the show around a bit too much in places were it may not be the best idea to do so. Not everyone wants to know you like this show nor that you are a brony and sometimes it's best to keep it to yourself that you like this show.

 

Not to say if you have shirts or merchandise should you let people out in public stop you from wearing something you like. Never let society tell you what you should/should not wear. Wear something because you feel like wearing it. 

Edited August 12, 2015 by Gone Airbourne

[SpikusFyre 486]

I actually was an anti-brony until January of this year when boredom, curiosity, and loneliness (long story)  combined into basically watching 4 seasons in like 3 days. I had also been unknowingly exposed to some fan music much earlier that acted as a catalyst when i started making mental connections. It's August and I'm only now getting more involved than being a silent observer.