searching MLP Empires: Clash of Cultures (Diplomacy,Trade & War)

[Flamestreak1990 1,172]

@,

 

Can't even tell if you're serious or not...

Naw I'm just playing But I'll make sure you are the first empire The Flock destroys 

[Love Doctor Blaze 536]

I too believe that we should take time with this RP. Because it's a pretty big one, that people have put a lot of effort in to. But i'm fine eithr way

[Wicked Funky 2,955]

@,

 

Come at me bro  :okiedokielokie:

 

...

 

[Love Doctor Blaze 536]

@,

 

Come at me bro  :okiedokielokie:

 

...

 

You got DU's support!

[Wicked Funky 2,955]

@,

 

Problemo, Phoenixes and DRAGONS are considered what you might call demons in the religion of Pruine...  

[Gloomfury 243]

I wonder who's gonna be the first to get friendly with the mighty pirate nation. Cause I'm sure none of ya landlubbers want ta be keelhauled!  Aye? 

Edited November 1, 2015 by Gloomfury

[CrimsonWeb 786]

All of you are talking of war already! tisk tisk, I'm just gonna hide for as long as I can ;w;

[Wicked Funky 2,955]

I wonder who's gonna be the first to get friendly with the mighty pirate nation. Cause I'm sure none of ya landlubbers want ta be keelhauled!  Aye? 

 

Well, Pruine is in a need of salt.... We might take some

[Gloomfury 243]

@,

 

Ya might just get it matey. Also, is your nation by chance based off of the Freljord?

[Love Doctor Blaze 536]

My nation is going to be peacefull. So i'm not going to war, unles provoked...

[Wicked Funky 2,955]

@@Gloomfury,

 

 It's kind of inspired by it, I worked from the idea of a environment like Freljords

[CrimsonWeb 786]

@, Like wise, Ill probably just stay put, seeming as I might be one of the only nations that has enough food ;o 

[Gloomfury 243]

@,

 

I thought so. When I say the picture the first thing I thought was the Freljords 

 

@@CrimsonWeb,

 

And my nation mostly has sea food. Hope you like fish! 

[CrimsonWeb 786]

@@Gloomfury, Haha, It would be interesting to see how people who have never seen the sea would react to lots of fish ;P 

[Durandal 623]

I'm seeing a couple problems with this set-up that might make things problematic.
 
Most importantly are the nation categories. While the magic vs. technology set-up allows less advanced nations to be competitive, you went a bit overboard. Magic might be capable of great feats, but I'd like to point you to the Battle of Omdurman between the British and Sudanese. Of the 52,000 warriors of Sudan, 10,000 were killed, 13,000 wounded, and 5,000 captured, compared to Britain's 8,200 Brits and 17,600 Egyptians and Sudanese, with only 47 dead and 382 wounded. Wikipedia itself quotes it as, "...a demonstration of the superiority of a highly disciplined army equipped with modern rifles, machine guns and artillery over a vastly larger force armed with older weapons..." And then there's the Battle of Blood River, where 464 Voortrekkers (Pioneers) and 200 servants killed 3,000+ of a 15,000-21,000 strong force of Zulus, with only three wounded, none killed.

 

My point is that, while Magically-inclined nations might be able to cope, traditional nations are obsolete, and would realistically be trampled by scientific nations. Rational nations would be capable of defending themselves, but the caps makes it very unlikely they'd succeed. There's also the problem that ideas and technologies are often traded. Magical and traditional nations might be justified in rejecting scientific discoveries, but there is absolutely no reason for why a rational nation would not integrate new ideas, as they wouldn't have reservations.

 

Also, the population restrictions are backwards. If we are to assume the industrial revolution is technological, and as such shunned by traditional nations, then they would need far bigger territories to even begin to match their scientific or rational counterparts' populations. Populations globally have skyrocketed since the industrial revolution, traditional nations would simply be incapable of the infrastructure necessary for supporting comparable populations.

 

I would suggest abolishing this system entirely, instead encouraging a spectrum, with technological on one end and magic on the other. Nations can either be entirely magical, entirely technological, have some inclination either way, or be perfectly balanced. This gives players more room to expand on the specifics behind why they use certain technologies and not others. As well, tech restrictions need to be lifted entirely, replaced by admin oversight. You don't have many players, so it'd be simple to maintain jurisdiction on what does and doesn't go without needless limitations on what can be done. Just point out a starting 'time period' for us to go on, and let things move forward from there.

 

At the very least, drop scientific nations' tech levels drastically, as otherwise they're going to completely dominate the other nations.
 

120 cavalry (lancers, dragoons, light dragoons and hussars)

 

Uhm, a majority of MLP's races are quadrupeds. I don't think traditional cavalry is possible, or necessary. The closest thing to cavalry I can think of would be pegasi. The only races that might benefit from traditional cavalry are Diamond Dogs and Minotaurs.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Durandal

[Once In A Blue Moon 895]

My point is that, while Magically-inclined nations might be able to cope, traditional nations are obsolete, and would realistically be trampled by scientific nations. Rational nations would be capable of defending themselves, but the caps makes it very unlikely they'd succeed. There's also the problem that ideas and technologies are often traded.

 

I think that there are two points to consider here:

1. There are counter-examples, such as the Battle of Isandlwana and the 1842 retreat from Kabul - both cases where less well equipped (substantially so for the Zulus) were able to defeat the vastly better equipped and professional British forces. Although both ultimately led to massive reprisals, that was only the possible because of the huge disparity of military forces - the resources of a huge empire that could not afford to appear weak. The Battle of the Teutoburg Forest  is another good example, although with a smaller tech difference.

 

2. Maybe Traditional countries can't compete militarily - at least, not in a conventional sense. As has been seen throughout history (including recently in Afganistan) whilst conquering a country is one thing, occupying it is quite another. If Traditional nations play to their 'values and traditions' then their huge populations will be nigh impossible for small tech-reliant armies to suppress - with attrition and economic sabotage rendering the occupation highly unprofitable and unsustainable. It could get very interesting in that regard.

 

 

 

Also, the population restrictions are backwards. If we are to assume the industrial revolution is technological, and as such shunned by traditional nations, then they would need far bigger territories to even begin to match their scientific or rational counterparts' populations. Populations globally have skyrocketed since the industrial revolution, traditional nations would simply be incapable of the infrastructure necessary for supporting comparable populations.

 

My assumption would be that traditional nations are geographically much larger, with their giant populations spread over many independent and self-sufficient small communities united only by their values and some sense of loyalty to their government. Some suspension of disbelief is required, but then these are magical friendship ponies we are talking about.

 

 

 

but there is absolutely no reason for why a rational nation would not integrate new ideas, as they wouldn't have reservations.

 

 

Thinking about it, that's actually a good incentive to trade. If the Scientific nations have the only means of producing high-tech weapons with high-precision manufacturing, machine rifling, superior metallurgy and so on, then the rational nations can trade for the superior weapons but need a constant supply of high-tech components in order to maintain them. In short, the ability to trade allows them to bypass their 'tech cap', but only so long as good relations are maintained.

 

If Magical and Rational nations had a similar dynamic, with the spellcrafting capabilities of the rationals far inferior to that of the magicals but able to trade for them (some limiting factor would be needed - one-shot spell scrolls, maybe?)

 

This would mean that rational nations that have good relations with both magical and scientific factions are by far the most powerful, but if they anger their allies (by trading with their enemies, for example) then they stand to lose a great deal - making them natural mediators and negotiators (which fits with the idea of a harmonious society.)

 

And then there are the traditionals with their vast, loyal populations and xenophobic attitudes - difficult to play well, I suspect, but I see possibilities.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Once In A Blue Moon

[Lordav 3,427]

Most importantly are the nation categories. While the magic vs. technology set-up allows less advanced nations to be competitive, you went a bit overboard. Magic might be capable of great feats, but I'd like to point you to the Battle of Omdurman between the British and Sudanese. Of the 52,000 warriors of Sudan, 10,000 were killed, 13,000 wounded, and 5,000 captured, compared to Britain's 8,200 Brits and 17,600 Egyptians and Sudanese, with only 47 dead and 382 wounded. Wikipedia itself quotes it as, "...a demonstration of the superiority of a highly disciplined army equipped with modern rifles, machine guns and artillery over a vastly larger force armed with older weapons..." And then there's the Battle of Blood River, where 464 Voortrekkers (Pioneers) and 200 servants killed 3,000+ of a 15,000-21,000 strong force of Zulus, with only three wounded, none killed.

 

Dammit, @@Once In A Blue Moon, ya stole mah points XD

 

 

 

 

. There's also the problem that ideas and technologies are often traded. Magical and traditional nations might be justified in rejecting scientific discoveries, but there is absolutely no reason for why a rational nation would not integrate new ideas, as they wouldn't have reservations

 

The retrictions are for nation creation, not for the entire RP, the ENTIRE RP is basing on alliances between different ways of life. The main idea IS trading new deas, as this is the way many relationships were made in history. First, the initial clash of cultures, then tthe trading of ideas, building a relation (and then... usually backstabbing... but lets not go into details)... Just look at Japan in the 1860s.... It went from a feudal society to a world power in a matter of years, even beating the russians a mere 36 years later.

 

 

 

Also, the population restrictions are backwards. If we are to assume the industrial revolution is technological, and as such shunned by traditional nations, then they would need far bigger territories to even begin to match their scientific or rational counterparts' populations. Populations globally have skyrocketed since the industrial revolution, traditional nations would simply be incapable of the infrastructure necessary for supporting comparable populations.

 

All scientific nations will start up in the cold north. The whole base of the 'scientific' group is them 'cleansing' magic due to a belief it was magic that started the winter. The area would be very unhospitable and therefore large populations would be hard to manage (think scandinavia in the 1870s.... it didnt pass 20 mil people)

 

 

 

  2. Maybe Traditional countries can't compete militarily - at least, not in a conventional sense. As has been seen throughout history (including recently in Afganistan) whilst conquering a country is one thing, occupying it is quite another. If Traditional nations play to their 'values and traditions' then their huge populations will be nigh impossible for small tech-reliant armies to suppress - with attrition and economic sabotage rendering the occupation highly unprofitable and unsustainable. It could get very interesting in that regard.    

 

Have you stolen my notes by chance?

 

@@Durandal,

Think of russia, many times it didnt win wars by crushing their enemy in battle but through attrition, small raids (cossacks) and shear manpower. WW2 and the Napoleonic campaign prove that numbers and territory can easily outmatch a army. As Napoleon said, an army marches on its stomatch, tech is not the only thing that wins wars), germany in WW1 didnt really lose any millitary battle (mostly...) but was simply starved into submission.

 

 

 

Uhm, a majority of MLP's races are quadrupeds. I don't think traditional cavalry is possible, or necessary. The closest thing to cavalry I can think of would be pegasi. The only races that might benefit from traditional cavalry are Diamond Dogs and Minotaurs.

 

 We see dogs on ponies, Ponies on ponies.... why cant we put a pony on a bigger horse (they exist in the show)

[GreyScholar 1,584]

We see dogs on ponies, Ponies on ponies.... why cant we put a pony on a bigger horse (they exist in the show)

Wait, wait, wait... are you taking about the delegates from Saddle Arabia? I don't think they would take kindly to even the suggestion of ponies riding them in battle.

I will admit to feeling that, without magic, a nation that isn't technologically advanced would be at the disadvantage even with greater numbers. A nation without either magic or technology, if not both, would not be able to defend themselves or worse attack nations with these things.... at least not without high casualties. That is just my thoughts though.

Edited November 2, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Lordav 3,427]

Wait, wait, wait... are you taking about the delegates from Saddle Arabia? I don't think they would take kindly to even the suggestion of ponies riding them in battle.

Read my desc. They (their species) were initially oon the island when 'my ponies' arrived. They were 'primitive' compared to the arriving ponies and in time they were driven out or enslaved. Those who were enslaved were inbred and treated like nothing but beasts for milenia, making them act like nothing but obedient savages. Hey, it happened historically.

 

 

I will admit that I feel, without magic, a nation that isn't very technologically advanced would be at the disadvantage even with greater numbers. A nation without either magic or technology, if not both, would not be able to defend themselves or worse attack nation with these things. That is just my thoughts though.

 

 

As Blue moon posted (and what my idea was   as well) The idea isnt only to occupy, but to pacify. Firstly, the probs of deafeting empires that control a fast amount of land and with great pops comes in. Modern armies need supplies (ammunition, food, etc) which they will have to transport from a long dostance away, suppy lines can be raided. Perfect example Russia WW2, the germans advanced, yet their supply lines were constantly stuck/attacked/ destroyed. Even after that, it will be very difficult to keep that land as, to occupy such a nation, you will have to spread out all ur troops (and rely on locals) which makes them very vurnarable to attack. Thats why the Europeans prefered creating 'protectorates'. Local kings keep all their power but have a few restricions and have to pay tribute to their new overlord. In return they gain protection/ modern stuff.

 

Trust me, i thought this through, I saw a similar RP collapse because of the lack of such cats, and i dont want it again =)

@@EquestrianScholar, 

 

Also, the horses thing is just for 'flavour' just giving a high advantage to the fighter + maybe a bit faster, its not like they're gonna be used in unfair ways. Also, we're gonna trade em =)

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Read my desc. They (their species) were initially oon the island when 'my ponies' arrived. They were 'primitive' compared to the arriving ponies and in time they were driven out or enslaved. Those who were enslaved were inbred and treated like nothing but beasts for milenia, making them act like nothing but obedient savages. Hey, it happened historically.

I really don't like this, Princess Celestia would not stand for it at all, and of any case pony on horse is stupid. Better to have the more horse like race, Arabians, be their own race with their own nation and leave it as such. No horse like species enslaved, inbred, and treated like beasts or animals by ponies.

 

... on the rest, fair enough.

Edited November 2, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Gloomfury 243]

@@EquestrianScholar,

 

What do you think of the way my nation treat their slaves?  

[Once In A Blue Moon 895]

 

 

Dammit, @Once In A Blue Moon, ya stole mah points XD

 

 

Have you stolen my notes by chance?

 

As Blue moon posted (and what my idea was   as well)

 

 

All innocent Shetland ponies over here, who do not have any plans to become the premier intelligence and espionage superpower.

[Durandal 623]

I think that there are two points to consider here:

1. There are counter-examples, such as the Battle of Isandlwana and the 1842 retreat from Kabul - both cases where less well equipped (substantially so for the Zulus) were able to defeat the vastly better equipped and professional British forces. Although both ultimately led to massive reprisals, that was only the possible because of the huge disparity of military forces - the resources of a huge empire that could not afford to appear weak. The Battle of the Teutoburg Forest  is another good example, although with a smaller tech difference.

 

The problem with the first two examples is that the technologically inferior armies typically fielded 10 times the troops, and even then faced heavy casualties to a much smaller force. European empires never fully mobilized their militaries due to logistics and appearances. Were we to see the kind of forces at play in the Napoleonic Wars, these uprisings would never have a chance. The nations in this roleplay might not be limited in that way, meaning scientific nations can bring to bear much larger forces. Traditional forces will either require gargantuan armies (a logistical nightmare) or incredible luck (very unlikely).

 

2. Maybe Traditional countries can't compete militarily - at least, not in a conventional sense. As has been seen throughout history (including recently in Afganistan) whilst conquering a country is one thing, occupying it is quite another. If Traditional nations play to their 'values and traditions' then their huge populations will be nigh impossible for small tech-reliant armies to suppress - with attrition and economic sabotage rendering the occupation highly unprofitable and unsustainable. It could get very interesting in that regard.

 

Then the nations have been poorly balanced. If a player has to take a majority of its time trying to win back its own nation due to inherent disadvantages, it's actively hampering the player's ability to freely enjoy their experience. Players should not be punished for playing a certain way, it's a game design no-no.

 

My assumption would be that traditional nations are geographically much larger, with their giant populations spread over many independent and self-sufficient small communities united only by their values and some sense of loyalty to their government. Some suspension of disbelief is required, but then these are magical friendship ponies we are talking about.

 

I suppose I could concede that point.

 

Thinking about it, that's actually a good incentive to trade. If the Scientific nations have the only means of producing high-tech weapons with high-precision manufacturing, machine rifling, superior metallurgy and so on, then the rational nations can trade for the superior weapons but need a constant supply of high-tech components in order to maintain them. In short, the ability to trade allows them to bypass their 'tech cap', but only so long as good relations are maintained.

 

If Magical and Rational nations had a similar dynamic, with the spellcrafting capabilities of the rationals far inferior to that of the magicals but able to trade for them (some limiting factor would be needed - one-shot spell scrolls, maybe?)

 

This would mean that rational nations that have good relations with both magical and scientific factions are by far the most powerful, but if they anger their allies (by trading with their enemies, for example) then they stand to lose a great deal - making them natural mediators and negotiators (which fits with the idea of a harmonious society.)

 

And then there are the traditionals with their vast, loyal populations and xenophobic attitudes - difficult to play well, I suspect, but I see possibilities.

 

The problem is that through espionage, trade, and diplomacy, this pressure can be negated. Techniques and methods can be taught, machinery constructed, and with time stable production acquired. Likewise, powerful spells can be discovered, stolen, or taught, making them accessible (I hesitate to say easily). If a rational nation plays its cards right, it stands to out-compete all others through its open-mindedness. A bit OP, I'd think.

 

 

Think of russia, many times it didnt win wars by crushing their enemy in battle but through attrition, small raids (cossacks) and shear manpower. WW2 and the Napoleonic campaign prove that numbers and territory can easily outmatch a army. As Napoleon said, an army marches on its stomatch, tech is not the only thing that wins wars), germany in WW1 didnt really lose any millitary battle (mostly...) but was simply starved into submission.

 

I'll give you Napoleon, but a lot of why the Nazi advance stalled was because they were fighting a two-front war. Germany very nearly had Russia, but Hitler was an idiot who didn't understand strategy (thank god). Had the Nazis taken care of the British before they took on the Soviets, it would have pounded it into submission before they could regroup.

 

We see dogs on ponies, Ponies on ponies.... why cant we put a pony on a bigger horse (they exist in the show)

 

As quadrupeds I imagine it'd be more than a little awkward riding on another horse. Non-magic users face considerable difficulty (realistically) in using weapons, add being on horseback and I'm sure it's a nightmare (moon).

Edited November 2, 2015 by Durandal

[Gloomfury 243]

Can we start now? 

[Love Doctor Blaze 536]

Read my desc. They (their species) were initially oon the island when 'my ponies' arrived. They were 'primitive' compared to the arriving ponies and in time they were driven out or enslaved. Those who were enslaved were inbred and treated like nothing but beasts for milenia, making them act like nothing but obedient savages. Hey, it happened historically.  As Blue moon posted (and what my idea was   as well) The idea isnt only to occupy, but to pacify. Firstly, the probs of deafeting empires that control a fast amount of land and with great pops comes in. Modern armies need supplies (ammunition, food, etc) which they will have to transport from a long dostance away, suppy lines can be raided. Perfect example Russia WW2, the germans advanced, yet their supply lines were constantly stuck/attacked/ destroyed. Even after that, it will be very difficult to keep that land as, to occupy such a nation, you will have to spread out all ur troops (and rely on locals) which makes them very vurnarable to attack. Thats why the Europeans prefered creating 'protectorates'. Local kings keep all their power but have a few restricions and have to pay tribute to their new overlord. In return they gain protection/ modern stuff. Trust me, i thought this through, I saw a similar RP collapse because of the lack of such cats, and i dont want it again =)@@EquestrianScholar,  Also, the horses thing is just for 'flavour' just giving a high advantage to the fighter + maybe a bit faster, its not like they're gonna be used in unfair ways. Also, we're gonna trade em =)

(Hate mobile posts...)

 

Can i make a change to my nation? I want it to have a roman military system