Are the mane 6 "bigged up" a little too much in MLP?

[SteveMorison 404]

Even though there are many episodes which focus on the mane 6's flaws and quirks, the series still seems to consistently teach that the mane 6 are all highly talented ponies and everything always works out for them in the end. Twilight is overpowered and gets ascended to Princess of Friendship, Rainbow Dash is apparently the fastest flyer in Equestria and wins nearly every competition she enters, Rarity is apparently the most beautiful mare in Equestria and ends up fulfilling her dream of opening a shop in Canterlot, Fluttershy has numerous hidden talents that she can't express due to shyness, Applejack and Pinkie Pie are both multi-talented etc. Then of course there's the fact that they bare the elements of harmony so Equestria depends on them to avoid total destruction. Now this in itself isn't a problem, MLP is a lighthearted show so of course we want our protagonists to succeed. The problem comes when other characters are constantly knocked down in order to put the mane 6 on a pedastal. For Rainbow Dash to show off her superior skills, loyalty and moral highground, the wonderbolts have to be portrayed as incompetant, dishonest, wreckless and backstabbing. Since the mane 6 and the EoH are so often the solution to a crisis, Princess Celestia and the royal guard have to be portrayed as completely helpless. Spike has been neglected to the role as mane 6 slave who can't catch a break in recent seasons, and then theres the alternate races who are normally portrayed either as jerks or overly flawed, and the mane 6 have to point them in the right direction (e.g. lost treasure of griffonstone, party pooped). Big Mac even brings this point up in Brotherhooves Social, Applejack is out saving the world and everyone's hero, Big Mac is left to be silent and do chores on the farm.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,803]

That's what comes with the title of Main Characters. The mane 6 are essentially the best at what they do and as a result, they get the constant spotlight. Just how it is. 

[cider float 2,538]

I don't think Fluttershy has been scored up that way. Remember she was still the worst flyer in Ponyville even when she beat her own record to help with raising the water to Cloudsdale. She just added a little drop of power to the already large whirlwind to help it.

 

Rarity did not succeed in covering her friend's birthday party while attending the dinner party.

 

Twilight blew up on her friends and was put to great shame when she realized Discord didn't put a magic spell on her friends.

 

These things still come by, in many ways they all work out in the end but that doesn't mean they didn't go through all the embarrassment and also loss some things like a bit of their pride and dignity.

Edited February 23, 2016 by cider float

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Let me take this beat, by beat:

 

 

 

Even though there are many episodes which focus on the mane 6's flaws and quirks, the series still seems to consistently teach that the mane 6 are all highly talented ponies and everything always works out for them in the end.

 

The first part of that should invalidate the second part on it's own. The fact that the Mane Six have trials and tribulations, that they are flawed and imperfect, that there is internal problems as well as external problems to overcome; when characters have met that criteria . . . yes, they get their happy ending.

 

 

 

Twilight is overpowered and gets ascended to Princess of Friendship,

 

I swear if I hear that phrase one more Goddamn time . . .

 

Yeah so is Goku but no one complains about him!

 

Twilight's magical potency has always been apparent ever since the flashback to her as a filly. She's a magical prodigy and went through an arc where she attained a position and form of new authoritative and magical might. It's not arbitrary it's earned.

 

Second, need I bring up that Starlight Glimmer was able to match her horn to horn and almost win? The new princess CAN bleed.

 

 

 

Rainbow Dash is apparently the fastest flyer in Equestria and wins nearly every competition she enters,

 

 

A ) Not always in first place, at the Equestria Games qualifier she only just made the qualification for Ponyville and came second by minutes after Cloudsdale.

 

B ) She had to cram for the written qualification to be in the Wonderbolts reserve and was in very real danger of not passing.

 

 

 

Rarity is apparently the most beautiful mare in Equestria and ends up fulfilling her dream of opening a shop in Canterlot,

 

. . . And? She shouldn't be allowed to expand her business? Let alone the nightmare that it was when she first started that branch?

 

 

 

Fluttershy has numerous hidden talents that she can't express due to shyness, Applejack and Pinkie Pie are both multi-talented etc.

 

Yes, they all are. So? Why is being talented a flaw as long as, as you acknowledged, as much attention is given to their flaws as their strengths.

 

 

 

Then of course there's the fact that they bare the elements of harmony so Equestria depends on them to avoid total destruction.

 

Yeah . . . the world depends on the Avengers to avoid total destruction, the world depends on the Justice League to avoid total destruction, the world depends on the Powerpuff Girls to avoid total destruction, the Men in Black, the Digi-Destined, Overwatch, team RWBY. They're heroes, again, they shouldn't be allowed to save the world whence threatened?

 

 

 

Now this in itself isn't a problem, MLP is a lighthearted show so of course we want our protagonists to succeed.

 

Do you?

 

 

 

The problem comes when other characters are constantly knocked down in order to put the mane 6 on a pedastal.

 

Again, as both of us have agreed, the Mane Six do not win by virtue of just being there, they have to try. Again, they shouldn't be allowed to succeed because they are the more skilled party? Tall Poppy anypony?

 

And it's not like their competitors are foals in a playground, they're often pitted against ponies who are just as good as they are in their respective fields.

 

 

 

For Rainbow Dash to show off her superior skills, loyalty and moral highground, the wonderbolts have to be portrayed as incompetant, dishonest, wreckless and backstabbing.

 

Since when?!

 

Lightning Dust was every bit Dash's equal in speed. As said before the Wonderbolts beat her in the Equestria Games qualifier, and Spitfire has been looking out for Dash and shown to care about her the conduct of the corps. and family as evidenced by her dropping a show to go see her mother when she thought she was sick and kicking out Lightning Dust when Dash reported underhoofed tactics. Soarin' got injured, so has Rainbow Dash in the past. He's a cool and easy going guy otherwise and even the best athletes aren't made of iron.

 

What Wynn Ryder is a vain saboteur so they all are like him?

 

 

 

Since the mane 6 and the EoH are so often the solution to a crisis, Princess Celestia and the royal guard have to be portrayed as completely helpless.

 

 

You mean how Celestia beat three of the major villains along with Luna in her prime?

 

 

 

Spike has been neglected to the role as mane 6 slave who can't catch a break in recent seasons,

 

He saved the day in both "Power Ponies" and "Inspiration Manifestation" and pulled a BIG DAMN HERO moment in "the Equestria Games" not to mention being more on the ball than Twilight was in the first EQG movie. Just because he's generally passive and servile and not a type A personality doesn't make him a slave or weak.

 

 

 

and then theres the alternate races who are normally portrayed either as jerks or overly flawed, and the mane 6 have to point them in the right direction (e.g. lost treasure of griffonstone, party pooped).

 

The griffons weren't evil just down on their luck. I mean it's hard to be chipper when you live in a failed state. The Yaks aren't even jerks, it was the ponies who were in the wrong for thinking they could appropriate their culture and do it accurately. They only fixed the problem by NOT trying to tell the Yaks how to behave and just welcoming them in their own way.

 

 

 

Big Mac even brings this point up in Brotherhooves Social, Applejack is out saving the world and everyone's hero, Big Mac is left to be silent and do chores on the farm.

 

At last . . . yes I agree with this one. But is that fair to blame Applejack for being who she is? None of the Mane Six boast about saving the world, taking more pride in their personal passions. AJ doesn't even take personal pride as much as family pride, she more credits her strength on the collective achievement and history of the Apple family.

 

She casts a big shadow for certain and it's understandable Big Mac would try to step up and compensate for what he thinks is a lack in competency, but as Applebloom said to him, he doesn't need to be anything other than who he is.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Steel Accord

[DANUTERCISD 204]

I don't think Fluttershy has been scored up that way. Remember she was still the worst flyer in Ponyville even when she beat her own record to help with raising the water to Cloudsdale. She just added a little drop of power to the already large whirlwind to help it.

 

Rarity did not succeed in covering her friend's birthday party while attending the dinner party.

 

Twilight blew up on her friends and was put to great shame when she realized Discord didn't put a magic spell on her friends.

 

These things still come by, in many ways they all work out in the end but that doesn't mean they didn't go through all the embarrassment and also loss some things like a bit of their pride and dignity.

but fluttershy has other talents too.

[Concerned Bystander 2,903]

They're the main characters in a TV program, for them to be exceptional in one way or another is pretty much par for the course.  It would be very unusual for the characters in a program of this nature to be mediocre.

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

The Mane 6 are overachievers and role models. There's no inherent problem, that's just their nature as characters reflecting on the nature of the rest of the show, the franchise, and its creators, as well as the types of stories and characters that are overwhelmingly commonplace in the societal situation against which the show came out. It's okay as long as the Mane 6 aren't getting away with murder because of their status or flaunting their achievements in others' faces, which the show's morality thankfully keeps from happening.

 

The only issue is that the rest of Equestria is all too often portrayed as completely helpless or idle whenever the Mane 6 are tasked with taking down a villain or solving any other similarly big problem. The show has an amazingly large cast, but rarely uses it. In that case, it makes more sense to the show's messages to have the rest of Equestria back up the Mane 6 more often. What if Twilight's castle had been built by the townsponies instead of just magically appearing out of the ground? What if the misfired spell in "Magical Mystery Cure" had gone beyond just the Mane 6? What kind of lessons can the Mane 6 can learn from characters like Cheerilee or Big Macintosh?

Edited February 24, 2016 by Wind Chaser

[CastletonSnob 3,079]

The show has a great supporting cast that's going to waste. I'd like to learn more about Cheerilee, Zecora, the Cakes, or Mayor Mare.

 

I'd love to see an episode of Cheerilee's younger years set in the 80s.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Not really

 

Aside from twilight and MAYBE rainbow dash, the others are pretty low tier and don't get any respect honestly.

Applejack is talented but nothing special; she didn't win a single blue ribbon at the competition after all, so its not like she's a god mode athlete, even if she IS good.

Pinkie pie can... throw parties. That's it.

Rarity still gets virtually no respect socially and gets trash talked constantly by socialites.

 

 

 

And, once again, the mane six sans twilight get virtually no respect outside of ponyville. So no, I don't think the mane six are that overblown. The only thing that Really strikes me as "Overblown" would be the S5 finale treating the world as 100% doomed without them, though Since Twilight never became an alicorn in that timeline it kind of makes sense given how Messiahlike they've been treating her lately.

[NeonCobalt 256]

I guess they kind of are, but then again they are the main characters of the show. This isn't too unusual for a TV show.

[Roy 15]

To be honest I agree with everything the OP said. I understand everything needing to be in an 'all is right with the world' state when the show draws to a close, but they have to do a lot of stomping on the rest of the characters to come out on top.

[Rawzy 1,302]

Well they are called the "mane 6" for a reason, if you didn't want them to be so bigged up then complain to Hasbro and they'll change the name to "Mane Background Ponies" instead.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Honestly though, I mean, the mane six, sans twilight really aren't depicted as being super special anymore.

Dash got toned down WAY big after season 1, and is constantly shown to be worse flyers than spitfire and not anywhere NEAR the best flyer in equestria since we have lots of others like Lightning dust and Wind rider running around who are still her better.

So even dash, the second "biggest" character of the six next to twilight is still shown to be below the best flyer in equestria.

 

and don't even get me started on in the EQG series, the other 5 are basically a cheer squad who stand around and leave the important stuff to Twilight/shimmer XD

[SteveMorison 404]

Honestly though, I mean, the mane six, sans twilight really aren't depicted as being super special anymore.

 

Dash got toned down WAY big after season 1, and is constantly shown to be worse flyers than spitfire and not anywhere NEAR the best flyer in equestria since we have lots of others like Lightning dust and Wind rider running around who are still her better.

So even dash, the second "biggest" character of the six next to twilight is still shown to be below the best flyer in equestria.

 

and don't even get me started on in the EQG series, the other 5 are basically a cheer squad who stand around and leave the important stuff to Twilight/shimmer XD

There's actually more evidence that Rainbow Dash is a better flyer than Spitfire than the other way around. RD and Spitfire were almost neck and neck in the relay race at the Equestria Games, this was when Spitfire had teammates of Soarin and Fleetfoot and RD had teammates of Bulk Biceps and Fluttershy. Theres also the time when they flew back from the ice mountains in Rarity Investigates, Spitfire came back out of breath whilst RD was completely fine, and this was after RD had also rushed to the ice mountains. Rarity Investigates also made clear that RD was in line to beat Wind Rider's all time record. Lightning Dust, fair enough, big competitor.

Let me take this beat, by beat:

 

 

The first part of that should invalidate the second part on it's own. The fact that the Mane Six have trials and tribulations, that they are flawed and imperfect, that there is internal problems as well as external problems to overcome; when characters have met that criteria . . . yes, they get their happy ending.

 

 

I swear if I heat that phrase one more Goddamn time . . .

 

Yeah so is Goku but no one complains about him!

 

Twilight's magical potency has always been apparent ever since the flashback to her as a filly. She's a magical prodigy and went through an arc where she attained a position and form of new authoritative and magical might. It's not arbitrary it's earned.

 

Second, need I bring up that Starlight Glimmer was able to match her horn to horn and almost win? The new princess CAN bleed.

 

 

A ) Not always in first place, at the Equestria Games qualifier she only just made the qualification for Ponyville and came second by minutes after Cloudsdale.

 

B ) She had to cram for the written qualification to be in the Wonderbolts reserve and was in very real danger of not passing.

 

 

. . . And? She shouldn't be allowed to expand her business? Let alone the nightmare that it was when she first started that branch?

 

 

Yes, they all are. So? Why is being talented a flaw as long as, as you acknowledged, as much attention is given to their flaws as their strengths.

 

 

Yeah . . . the world depends on the Avengers to avoid total destruction, the world depends on the Justice League to avoid total destruction, the world depends on the Powerpuff Girls to avoid total destruction, the Men in Black, the Digi-Destined, Overwatch, team RWBY. They're heroes, again, they shouldn't be allowed to save the world whence threatened?

 

 

Do you?

 

 

Again, as both of us have agreed, the Mane Six do not win by virtue of just being there, they have to try. Again, they shouldn't be allowed to succeed because they are the more skilled party? Tall Poppy anypony?

 

And it's not like their competitors are foals in a playground, they're often pitted against ponies who are just as good as they are in their respective fields.

 

 

Since when?!

 

Lightning Dust was every bit Dash's equal in speed. As said before the Wonderbolts beat her in the Equestria Games qualifier, and Spitfire has been looking out for Dash and shown to care about her the conduct of the corps. and family as evidenced by her dropping a show to go see her mother when she thought she was sick and kicking out Lightning Dust when Dash reported underhoofed tactics. Soarin' got injured, so has Rainbow Dash in the past. He's a cool and easy going guy otherwise and even the best athletes aren't made of iron.

 

What Wynn Ryder is a vain saboteur so they all are like him?

 

 

You mean how Celestia beat three of the major villains along with Luna in her prime?

 

 

He saved the day in both "Power Ponies" and "Inspiration Manifestation" and pulled a BIG DAMN HERO moment in "the Equestria Games" not to mention being more on the ball than Twilight was in the first EQG movie. Just because he's generally passive and servile and not a type A personality doesn't make him a slave or weak.

 

 

The griffons weren't evil just down on their luck. I mean it's hard to be chipper when you live in a failed state. The Yaks aren't even jerks, it was the ponies who were in the wrong for thinking they could appropriate their culture and do it accurately. They only fixed the problem by NOT trying to tell the Yaks how to behave and just welcoming them in their own way.

 

 

At last . . . yes I agree with this one. But is that fair to blame Applejack for being who she is? None of the Mane Six boast about saving the world, taking more pride in their personal passions. AJ doesn't even take personal pride as much as family pride, she more credits her strength on the collective achievement and history of the Apple family.

 

She casts a big shadow for certain and it's understandable Big Mac would try to step up and compensate for what he thinks is a lack in competency, but as Applebloom said to him, he doesn't need to be anything other than who he is.

You win, can't really argue many of your points. I do have a few things to say in counter though, mainly in regards to the wonderbolts. In Wonderbolts Academy Spitfire is depicted as accepting and even rewarding of Lightning Dust's wreckless behaviour, only changing her mind when she gets a telling off from Rainbow Dash. In Rainbow Falls, Spitfire and Fleetfoot throw Soarin under the bus by cutting him from their team and trying to replace him with Rainbow Dash for the Equestria Games. With regards to Celestia, yes she's done great things in the past, but needed the elements of harmony to do so. Now they are connected to the mane 6, and she herself seems virtually helpless whenever crisis strikes in Equestria. Celestia is supposed to be the most powerful pony around and the protector of Equestria, the fact that she never is the solution to a problem raises questions about her actual ability to protect Equestria.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

In Wonderbolts Academy Spitfire is depicted as accepting and even rewarding of Lightning Dust's wreckless behaviour, only changing her mind when she gets a telling off from Rainbow Dash.

 

Rewarding her performance not her behavior. She thought Dust was pushing boundries while still keeping her teammates in mind, which she was not. Rainbow Dash just informed her of what was actually going on. Call it an oversight in command, which it was, but it wasn't a lapse in morality on her part.

 

 

 

In Rainbow Falls, Spitfire and Fleetfoot throw Soarin under the bus by cutting him from their team and trying to replace him with Rainbow Dash for the Equestria Games.

 

There I do agree, that was a low blow, but nopony's perfect. Would it be any better for the supporting characters to be flawless anymore than the Mane Six?

 

 

 

With regards to Celestia, yes she's done great things in the past, but needed the elements of harmony to do so. Now they are connected to the mane 6,

 

Uhhh no they aren't. The Tree of Harmony remember? The Mane Six have not used the Elements as a weapon once since Discord's defeat.

 

 

 

and she herself seems virtually helpless whenever crisis strikes in Equestria. Celestia is supposed to be the most powerful pony around and the protector of Equestria, the fact that she never is the solution to a problem raises questions about her actual ability to protect Equestria.

 

You mean how it was her donated power, along with Luna and Cadences, that allowed Twilight to fight Tirek on an even level? She has the ability to protect Equestria, but no longer the duty. It's passing the torch, her time as the front line is over.

 

I mean call her a has been, but at least acknowledge that she herself probably also knows this.

To be honest I agree with everything the OP said. I understand everything needing to be in an 'all is right with the world' state when the show draws to a close, but they have to do a lot of stomping on the rest of the characters to come out on top.

 

See my first post above.

 

But honestly, how does "winning and being the best" automatically mean "malicious conquest?" If I win the gold medal for sprinting, do I have to apologize to everyone who didn't make the qualifying run?

Edited February 25, 2016 by Steel Accord

[Roy 15]

@Steel Accord

I didn't... Actually say anything of the sort of "malicious conquest".

If anything, it's simply a complaint that the ponies always seem to be the very best at what they do, which I feel will make the children that watch the show feel like anything average and below excellence would mean they're not good enough?

[SilverStarApple 849]

Pretty much, yeah. Remember how their removal completely fubar'd Equestria in five different ways, thanks to Starlight Glimmer and the alternate timelines?

 

While friendship across Equestria is important, these ARE the main characters. Would you still like them if they sucked? I've read the "She's too good at stuff" accusation sent at Twilight or Rainbow before, but all at once? That's not a first. Still rare though.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

@Steel Accord

I didn't... Actually say anything of the sort of "malicious conquest".

If anything, it's simply a complaint that the ponies always seem to be the very best at what they do, which I feel will make the children that watch the show feel like anything average and below excellence would mean they're not good enough?

No I'm not accusing you of that specific terminology. But "stomping on the rest of the characters" does imply that succeeding where others fail is itself wrong. That in a winner-looser scenario, the winner has taken harmful action against the looser. Unless the context is life or death, this shouldn't be the case.

 

I grew up watching characters like the Mane Six, characters like Dexter, the Powerpuff Girls, Sonic the Hedghog, the Power Rangers, and more. Characters smarter, faster, stronger, etc. than I could be or ever would be. Me nor anyone I knew developed an inferioroty complex, if anything me and my best friends tried to emulate them as paragons. To BE and DO better.

 

As continuously acknowledged but more as a defense than actual accounting, the Mane Six are not perfect and have shown personal failings and don't always win. They may on the episodes that focus on them, but remember Fluttershy only beat the dragon because ecerypony else already tried and failed, Fluttershy was only turned into a vampire by Applejack's stubborn territorially attiude, Twilight's magic couldn't beat Trixie so she relied on her friends in a con, Twilight's paranoia about the future was trumped by Pinkie's cheerful foresight. (I have X stashed all over Ponyville. In case of X emergencies.)

 

In short, they never loose as a whole because they make up for each other's shortcomings. As friends do.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Steel Accord

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

 

 

A ) Not always in first place, at the Equestria Games qualifier she only just made the qualification for Ponyville and came second by minutes after Cloudsdale.

 

Seconds, really. If I were to draw any conclusions from that race, the fact that Cloudsdale only won by a nose should indicate that RD would smoke any of the Bolts one on one.

 

We can talk about whether it negatively impacts the show or not, but I'm not gonna deny that RD has consistently rekt Spitfire and pals in terms of both athleticism and integrity .

 

 

 

For Rainbow Dash to show off her superior skills, loyalty and moral highground, the wonderbolts have to be portrayed as incompetant, dishonest, wreckless and backstabbing.

 

I agree with this, although as a disclaimer, the Bolts look fine as an organization if you disregard Rainbow Falls as I prefer to. Spitfire didn't really do anything all that bad in WA, and Wind Rider's actions don't really reflect poorly on the group as a whole.

 

------

 

This is a pretty normal thing in kids' media, though. Not really any different from Harry beating Voldy instead of hiding behind Dumbledore, or Aang and pals beating up the Fire Nation instead of leaving it to somebody else. Don't really have a huge problem with it, though I do really wish they'd give Celestia some screentime

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Seconds, really. If I were to draw any conclusions from that race, the fact that Cloudsdale only won by a nose should indicate that RD would smoke any of the Bolts one on one.

 

We can talk about whether it negatively impacts the show or not, but I'm not gonna deny that RD has consistently rekt Spitfire and pals in terms of both athleticism and integrity

I would argue that. Not that Rainbow Dash doesn't have what it takes, but to say the rest of the Wonderbolts are NOTHING compared to her I think is an overestimate.

 

They are, after all, the whole reason that Dash has pushed herself and trained that hard to get that good. One could argue that at some point the student has surpassed the master, but the master got their in the first place for a reason.

 

And no, I don't think the Mane Six, Rainbow included, being the best at what they do is a detriment. We don't follow Hercules or Beowulf to see them get their asses handed to them by the Nemean Lion or Grendel, respectively. We are rooting for them to win, or at least most of us are.

[Castle Bleck 19,383]

The Yaks aren't even jerks,

 

Yaks: *Destroy massive amounts of both public and private property (including a foreign ruler's castle) simply because their well-intentioned hosts don't do things just right.* *"Aren't even jerks."*

 

it was the ponies who were in the wrong for thinking they could appropriate their culture and do it accurately. They only fixed the problem by NOT trying to tell the Yaks how to behave and just welcoming them in their own way.

 

Ponies: *Jump to conclusions, but nevertheless try to bear with their incorrigible guests, and even change tactics upon realizing the truth.* *"Are in the wrong."*

 

Edited March 3, 2016 by A.V.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Yaks: *Destroy massive amounts of both public and private property (including a foreign ruler's castle) simply because their well-intentioned hosts don't do things just right.* *"Aren't even jerks."*

 

 

Ponies: *Jump to conclusions, but nevertheless try to bear with their incorrigible guests, and even change tactics upon realizing the truth.* *"Are in the wrong."*

 

 

Fair enough, but my point wasn't that the Yaks were perfect or that the ponies weren't trying to accommodate them. Especially seeing as declaring war was a suitable response to a diplomatic gaff.