Villainization in Boast Busters | Yufery

[Yufery 205]

I recently created a video discussing a popular complaint towards the MLP episode 'Boast Busters.'

 

[user1342342 143]

I'll just leave this here. 

 

"The episode was a mess. One of the earlier interviews with Thiesen on EqD, and I believe a reddit AMA, had him say that the original script / layout had to be hacked down and it stuck with him over how much overtime they had to do to make the episode make sense.

In the end, they still fucked up; they accelerated the initial reason for "conflict" so fast/poorly that they made 3 of the M6 look like petty hecklers and gave valid reasons for Trixie to act out on them. They were front row audience of a free show and were making a fuss about it from second zero, before any callouts; nobody that isn’t a jerkass does something like, but the M6 were made to act that way so Trixie would start her challenges. At that point they’re hecklers, and as anyone that’s seen standup comedy knows, hecklers get humiliated and used to entertain the rest of the audience; of course, making the M6 feel bad is a mortal sin for most of the fandom, as we all know from the way people flipped over Gilda making Fluttershy cry.

The merit of how she treated the challenges is contestable, but as far as I’m concerned was fair given the circumstances; AJ made a point of being so much better and used some rope tricks, Trixie used rope tricks on her and put her down a peg; RD got aggressive and used her flight to control the weather, Trixie used magic to control the weather and give her a shock (the same terrible shock, mind you, that Dash uses to "terrorize" innocent bystanders in Nightmare Night, so hush you with any claims she was assaulted); RY called out her style and looks and trashed Trixie’s stage to make herself look better with magic, Trixie user her magic to trash Rarity’s mane to have her look worse. She was challenged with shows of rope use, weather control, and object transformation, and she proved she was better at those things, put some hecklers in their place, and got cheers from the public. If this had been a M6 character putting on the show in front of a hostile audience, we’d be expected to cheer for them; but it’s not, the show’s always had a clear double standard when dealing with what the M6 can do and what other characters can do.

Trixie fucked up by lying about a fantastical event only idiot children or yokels would take seriously in the one town populated by idiot children and yokels that lied on the border of The Forbidden Forest; but the aesop didn’t deal with lies or boasting. RD, AJ, and RY fucked up by heckling a performer during their act and having as big of an as her; but the aesop didn’t deal with not harassing artists or biting down your tongue over pride. The wonderdolts and Spike fucked up by taking the show too seriously, putting their idols on mile-high pedestals, and fighting over them; but the aesop wasn’t about the dangers of fanboyism. In the end the aesop as about how you should feel OK to prove you’re good at something if you think you’re good at something; it was all about Twilight. And the aftermath was Trixie losing her home, her possesions, her job, and her pride, the wonderdolts getting prized with moustaches, Twilight becoming the town hero and Best Pony That Ever Lived, again, and some random pony having to retile their roof.

Oh, and showing that Dash was more than willing to physically beat up Trixie. But let’s just ignore that part lest we spark a debate on all of Dash’s deep faults and how we’re expected to see them as charming character traits…"

This topic would also be more fitting in "Show Discussion".

[Yufery 205]

@CJPony

 

Before I reply, I should point out this is a kids show. May be a clever one, but there's no reason to take it too seriously.

 

Anyway, your first point is that it was rushed because it never showed what exactly Trixie did. Though, I would argue that she was going rather overboard with the gloating while performing mediocre magic. Also, it's worth noting that most show performers wouldn't go out and actively call audience members onto the stage. Seems she got a bit overboard with her ego there. Also, this isn't standup comedy; it's a magic show. (Also, when did he say this? I'm curious.)

 

As you said, that's debatable, however I do feel that Trixie was a bit out of line there, since she's supposed to prevent her show from spiraling off into a contest. Perhaps Rarity, AJ, and RD weren't the most justified, though I'd argue that Trixie instigated it.

 

You're right, it didn't, but just because something isn't the primary moral doesn't mean there aren't more to get from it. Plus, they weren't harassing her in anyway. If she never called them out, I'd bet that they would just remain angry in the audience and at most, would approach her after she was off stage.  As for the biting your tongue down, perhaps it could've paid off to include that within the episode, but too many morals probably would've become shoehorned in. This same applies to your point about fanboyism. Though these could make for potential episode morals (or were they done before? I forgot, there's over 100 episodes to be fair lol)

 

The points of Trixie losing everything were addressed in Magic Duel, giving her legitimate motives for revenge. Plus, didn't the Mane 6 feel bad for her after that? It showed how they weren't entirely innocent in that regard. But, I also should add that Trixie probably should've asked them for help. I'd wager that they would give it to her, given the circumstances. 

 

Also I just posted it here because this is the area where you showcased videos you've made. Though if analysis-type videos belong there, then I'll post them there from now on.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Yufery

[user1342342 143]

@CJPony

 

Before I reply, I should point out this is a kids show. May be a clever one, but there's no reason to take it too seriously.

 

Anyway, your first point is that it was rushed because it never showed what exactly Trixie did. Though, I would argue that she was going rather overboard with the gloating while performing mediocre magic. 

 

She didn't even get the chance to perform before they started shit. They ended up being part the performance.

 

From the transcript.

 

Trixie: Come one, come all! Come and witness the amazing magic of the Great and Powerful Trixie!

Audience: Ooh!

Trixie: Watch in awe as the Great and Powerful Trixie performs the most spectacular feats of magic ever witnessed by pony eyes!

[fireworks and fanfare]

Rarity: My, my, my! What boasting!

Spike: Come on, nopony's as magical as Twi— Twi— Twi— Oh! [clears throat] Hey, Rarity, I, uh— Mustache!

Twilight Sparkle: There's nothing wrong with being talented, is there?

Applejack: Nothin' at all, 'cep'n when someone goes around showin' it off like a school filly with fancy new ribbons.

Rarity: Just because one has the ability to perform lots of magic does not make one better than the rest of us.

Rainbow Dash: Especially when ya got me around being better than the rest of us. [laughter] Eh, I mean, yeah, uh, magic shmagic. Boo!

 

 

Also, it's worth noting that most show performers wouldn't go out and actively call audience members onto the stage. Seems she got a bit overboard with her ego there.

 

Most audience members wouldn't go on stage and challenge the performers integrity before the show even has a chance to begin. Talk about ego, the main characters were the ones who got their egos in a bunch. 

 

 

Plus, didn't the Mane 6 feel bad for her after that?

 

No.

 

 

Trixie probably should've asked them for help

 

They should have offered her help. 

Edited August 10, 2016 by CJPony

[Yufery 205]

 

She didn't even get the chance to perform before they started shit. They ended up being part the performance.

 

From the transcript.

 

Trixie: Come one, come all! Come and witness the amazing magic of the Great and Powerful Trixie!

Audience: Ooh!

Trixie: Watch in awe as the Great and Powerful Trixie performs the most spectacular feats of magic ever witnessed by pony eyes!

[fireworks and fanfare]

Rarity: My, my, my! What boasting!

Spike: Come on, nopony's as magical as Twi— Twi— Twi— Oh! [clears throat] Hey, Rarity, I, uh— Mustache!

Twilight Sparkle: There's nothing wrong with being talented, is there?

Applejack: Nothin' at all, 'cep'n when someone goes around showin' it off like a school filly with fancy new ribbons.

Rarity: Just because one has the ability to perform lots of magic does not make one better than the rest of us.

Rainbow Dash: Especially when ya got me around being better than the rest of us. [laughter] Eh, I mean, yeah, uh, magic shmagic. Boo!

 

 

 

Most audience members wouldn't go on stage and challenge the performers integrity before the show even has a chance to begin. Talk about ego, the main characters were the ones who got their egos in a bunch. 

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

They should have offered her help. 

 

All your arguments (save for the last two) say that she never got a chance to start her show. But she did; I'd argue that all the fireworks and magic she performed then would be considered part of her show. Not to mention when it showed Applejack giving her take on it, it showed Trixie doing a basic magic act. She definitely did start her show from when they started to criticize her boasting.

 

AJ and Spike didn't have an ego (Dash and Rarity both do, but that's already established). Spike was just proud of Twilight's accomplishments and was angry to see a pony claiming to be better than her without showing exactly why. AJ was just holding pride in her farmwork. There's a difference between having pride in your accomplishments and being egotistical about it. Actually, that was the moral itself.

 

They didn't? I'd wager they should have, then, since they understood her circumstance then. Possible flaw with Magic Duel, then, though I'll have to rewatch it myself one time to see.

 

I don't believe they even knew that Trixie's belongings were destroyed. Even if they did, I don't think they would've guessed that it was all she had. At most it could be akin to say a trailer. After all, there's plenty of travelling performers that still have a home, an example of which is the YouTuber Alex Clark. Not to mention how Trixie didn't even bother to explain that her belongings were destroyed, and how she just chose to run off.

[Daring_Do 552]

Trixie fucked up by lying about a fantastical event only idiot children or yokels would take seriously in the one town populated by idiot children and yokels that lied on the border of The Forbidden Forest; but the aesop didn’t deal with lies or boasting.

Beg pardon, but it seemed pretty clear to me that the aesop did deal with boasting. It's even in the title of the episode. The moral was that it's okay to be good at something as long as you're not boasting about it and using it to put others down. Throughout the episode Twilight was worried that showing her own magical talent would make her as bad as Trixie, but Trixie's fault wasn't that she was good at magic, it was that she was *boasting* about it and thought it made her better than others.

[user1342342 143]

All your arguments (save for the last two) say that she never got a chance to start her show. But she did; I'd argue that all the fireworks and magic she performed then would be considered part of her show.

All of what? That was part of her introduction. Like I just said, the hecklers ended up being part of the performance.

 

 

 

Not to mention when it showed Applejack giving her take on it, it showed Trixie doing a basic magic act.

 

 

For all but five seconds, she does one trick and they complain that Trixie is showing off, at her own damn show. That was Applejack's complaint, that Trixie was showing off. 

 

 

 

Spike was just proud of Twilight's accomplishments and was angry to see a pony claiming to be better than her without showing exactly why.

 

Spike was an obnoxious asshole that couldn't just leave Trixie and her performance alone. His pride was getting in the way of the show.

 

 

 

They didn't?

 

No, they didn't. 

 

 

 

I don't believe they even knew that Trixie's belongings were destroyed.

 

They all saw her destroyed home, and it was never established that she has another one, I'm not just going to assume the best. They need to show this kind of thing for the viewers.

 

Beg pardon, but it seemed pretty clear to me that the aesop did deal with boasting. It's even in the title of the episode. The moral was that it's okay to be good at something as long as you're not boasting about it and using it to put others down. Throughout the episode Twilight was worried that showing her own magical talent would make her as bad as Trixie, but Trixie's fault wasn't that she was good at magic, it was that she was *boasting* about it and thought it made her better than others.

 

Trixie never directly said she was better than everyone, she issued a challenge after the hecklers kept bothering her. There is nothing inherently wrong with challenging someone, she never dragged them on stage and forced anyone to accept it, their ego's did that for them, and they got served their ass.

 

From the transcript:

 

Twilight Sparkle: Dear Princess Celestia,

I have learned a very valuable lesson about friendship: I was so afraid of being thought of as a show-off that I was hiding a part of who I am. My friends helped me realize that it's okay to be proud of your talents, and there are times when it's appropriate to show them off... Especially when you're standing up for your friends.

 

I could argue that a magic show is an appropriate time to show off your magical talents. 

Edited August 10, 2016 by CJPony

[Yufery 205]

 

All of what? That was part of her introduction. Like I just said, the hecklers ended up being part of the performance.

 

 

 

 

 

For all but five seconds, she does one trick and they complain that Trixie is showing off, at her own damn show. That was Applejack's complaint, that Trixie was showing off. 

 

 

 

 

Spike was an obnoxious asshole that couldn't just leave Trixie and her performance alone. His pride was getting in the way of the show.

 

 

 

 

No, they didn't. 

 

 

 

 

They all saw her destroyed home, and it was never established that she has another one, I'm not just going to assume the best. They need to show this kind of thing for the viewers.

 

 

Trixie never directly said she was better than everyone, she issued a challenge after the hecklers kept bothering her. There is nothing inherently wrong with challenging someone, she never dragged them on stage and forced anyone to accept it, their ego's did that for them, and they got served their ass.

 

From the transcript:

 

Twilight Sparkle: Dear Princess Celestia,

I have learned a very valuable lesson about friendship: I was so afraid of being thought of as a show-off that I was hiding a part of who I am. My friends helped me realize that it's okay to be proud of your talents, and there are times when it's appropriate to show them off... Especially when you're standing up for your friends.

 

I could argue that a magic show is an appropriate time to show off your magical talents. 

 

I'd say that it's implied there were more tricks done off screen besides that. And while it may be the intro, you could argue it's among the most important part of the show, since it's meant to grab the audience's attention with some great tricks.

 

Your opinion on Spike's actions is your own. I personally found it to be a fun part of the episode.

 

So they didn't?

 

No, they didn't. I even rewatched that scene from the episode to make sure. The only ones who witness its destruction were Snips, Snails, and Trixie. Plus, I wouldn't say it's necessary to show it. After all, at most it's a minor complaint that most folk wouldn't notice until a discussion online or on a rewatch.

 

"Trixie never said she was better than anyone"

Yes she did, multiple times. She often said things along the lines of the greatest unicorn in all of Equestria. I may have not gotten the exact quote right, but she definitely did. As for challenging someone, no there isn't, but she isn't exactly left out of blame for that since she shouldn't be going off from her own show to have fights with members of the audience. She was the one who instigated it, I quite frankly don't blame the M3 for taking up her challenges.

 

Hah, funny, I had someone on the video itself make that exact same argument. What are you two, the exact same person? Anyway, as I said to him, it is in most cases, but Trixie just did it for the sake of boasting. She only did it to fuel her own ego.

 

Also, there's no need to get angry. It's a TV show about cartoon ponies learning about friendship. It's not exactly work getting angry about xP

[user1342342 143]

No, they didn't. I even rewatched that scene from the episode to make sure. The only ones who witness its destruction were Snips, Snails, and Trixie. Plus, I wouldn't say it's necessary to show it. After all, at most it's a minor complaint that most folk wouldn't notice until a discussion online or on a rewatch.

 

Funny, I remember Twilight standing in front of it at one point, having Snips and Snails clean it up as punishment. They didn't care then, and they didn't care in magic duel after Trixie showed them what her life has been like going through hardships. 

 

 

 

Yes she did, multiple times.

 

 

From the transcript:

 

Trixie: Anything you can do, I can do better. Any takers?

 

Like I said, she never directly stated that. 

 

 

 

She often said things along the lines of the greatest unicorn in all of Equestria

 

Most magical unicorn in all of equestria.

 

 

 

She was the one who instigated it

 

 

Prove it.

 

 

Also, there's no need to get angry. It's a TV show about cartoon ponies learning about friendship. It's not exactly work getting angry about xP

 

I like Trixie and think she deserved better. It was the very first episode I watched so I didn't have the luxury of being attached or interested in any of the main characters. 

Edited August 10, 2016 by CJPony

[Yufery 205]

Funny, I remember Twilight standing in front of it at one point, having Snips and Snails clean it up as punishment. They didn't care then, and they didn't care in magic duel after Trixie showed them what her life has been like going through hardships. 

 

 

 

 

 

From the transcript:

 

Trixie: Anything you can do, I can do better. Any takers?

 

Like I said, she never directly stated that. 

 

 

 

 

Most magical unicorn in all of equestria.

 

 

 

 

 

Prove it.

 

 

 

I like Trixie and think she deserved better. It was the very first episode I watched so I didn't have the luxury of being attached or interested in any of the main characters. 

Haha, you're right, I must've missed that. Though, I could argue multiple things for that. Trixie ran off, which gives off the implication she has somewhere to go. She never asked for help either, she had every opportunity then to say that she lost everything, but she didn't say anything. No one could have known it was all she had. I can guarantee that if she said she lost everything due to that, Twilight would have offered her help in every sense of the word. Perhaps she would've taught her a lesson about boasting, but I know that Trixie still would've gotten help. As for Magic Duel, to be fair there wasn't much time to focus on Trixie's sad past since she was trying to battle Twilight, and not to mention how she eventually banished Twi form Ponyville.

 

In your second and third points, you're trying to justify Trixie by saying that she never said she was better than anyone. Even though in the lines you listed, it's basically saying that she's the best. It's just worded differently. Like it or not, Trixie considers (or at least considered in that episode) herself better than the other ponies and wasn't afraid to show it.

 

When the M3 were complaining among themselves, Trixie addressed it. I'd wager this is what triggered Dash to come up to her in the first place. If Trixie just ignored them and went on with her show, since they were only four members of a rather large audience, then chances are this whole scenario would've been avoided. They would've probably still been complaining, yes, and perhaps the occasional boo as Dash did, but the performance would've been uninterrupted. You could say they triggered it with the complaining, however I'd argue that audience members do have a right to express their dissatisfaction with the performance verbally. You could also argue that Trixie responding is a thing normal performers do, though I'd argue that it's mostly what comedians do. Magicians tend to go along with their planned act and, as far as I know, they ignore any boos they may get and continue along with their performance.

 

Haha, I can understand that, I like her as well. I feel similarly, but with MLP as a whole, in that I do want to try to have some sort of solid counterargument towards criticisms I disagree with. Though I should point out that it is important to consider all sides of a debate. I'm not saying you don't, since you definitely seem to be as of now, I'd just figure I would throw that out there .

Edited August 10, 2016 by Yufery

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

You could say they triggered it with the complaining, however I'd argue that audience members do have a right to express their dissatisfaction with the performance verbally.

And I'd argue that while audience members do have that right, they shouldn't do it during the show or they should do it quiet enough that it doesn't bother other people. And they obviously wasn't very quiet since Trixie heard them.

 

 You could also argue that Trixie responding is a thing normal performers do, though I'd argue that it's mostly what comedians do. Magicians tend to go along with their planned act and, as far as I know, they ignore any boos they may get and continue along with their performance.

And the reason for that simple. Magicians in our world isn't able to since all of their magic tricks take a lot of preparation and therefor they don't have any choice but to go along with their planned act. Trixie on the other hand doesn't need to prepare her magic tricks and is therefor able to respond to her hecklers.

[Yufery 205]

And I'd argue that while audience members do have that right, they shouldn't do it during the show or they should do it quiet enough that it doesn't bother other people. And they obviously wasn't very quiet since Trixie heard them.

 

And the reason for that simple. Magicians in our world isn't able to since all of their magic tricks take a lot of preparation and therefor they don't have any choice but to go along with their planned act. Trixie on the other hand doesn't need to prepare her magic tricks and is therefor able to respond to her hecklers.

I could understand your point there, though I'd continue to argue that they weren't bothering anyone else. They were speaking at normal volume, appearing not to bother anyone else, since they didn't have all eyes on them. You could say that Dash was speaking far above that when she boo'd Trixie, which is fair enough, but I don't think that a single boo is enough to bother the entire audience, or to justify Trixie stopping her entire show.

 

Just because the magic comes from different sources doesn't excuse Trixie. She interrupted her own show to respond to displeased audience members, not to mention only four of them out of a rather large crowd. From the seems of it, she had a planned out show, but she stopped it to have fights with the audience members.

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

I could understand your point there, though I'd continue to argue that they weren't bothering anyone else. 

They bothered Trixie and that was enough. 

 

 

Just because the magic comes from different sources doesn't excuse Trixie. She interrupted her own show to respond to displeased audience members, not to mention only four of them out of a rather large crowd. From the seems of it, she had a planned out show, but she stopped it to have fights with the audience members.

You missed my point. You said that magicians in our world doesn't do these kind of things and I explained the reason they didn't and why that reason didn't apply to Trixie. 

 

Anyway, what's the harm with "fighting" with some of the audience members when the rest of the audience seemed to enjoy it? 

[Yufery 205]

They bothered Trixie and that was enough. 

 

 

You missed my point. You said that magicians in our world doesn't do these kind of things and I explained the reason they didn't and why that reason didn't apply to Trixie. 

 

Anyway, what's the harm with "fighting" with some of the audience members when the rest of the audience seemed to enjoy it? 

Implying that regular performers don't get bothered when they hear people in the audience booing them? Just because it's slightly agitating doesn't mean she should interrupt her own show.

 

Yes, and I countered your argument by explaining how just because magic takes more preparation in our world than Equestria doesn't mean she should interrupt her own show to argue with them.

 

Sure, it might've turned out good, but what the issue is, is that Trixie isn't exactly a goddess here. She started this whole debacle just because she herself couldn't keep her pride down (remember when @CJPony said that line about the M3?) and how she couldn't just ignore the criticism. She had to come out above them, she couldn't just let the criticism go by. She's a show performer; she should just be performing her act for the entertainment of others, and them move on to another town. Instead she just wants to fuel her own ego.

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

Implying that regular performers don't get bothered when they hear people in the audience booing them? Just because it's slightly agitating doesn't mean she should interrupt her own show.

I'm not implying that regular performers don't get bothered. 

 

Anyway, why shouldn't she? Plenty of comedians do it so why can't she? 

 

Yes, and I countered your argument by explaining how just because magic takes more preparation in our world than Equestria doesn't mean she should interrupt her own show to argue with them.

Let me word my point a little differently. The argument I was responding to was that since magicians in our world doesn't interrupt their show to respond to hecklers, Trixie shouldn't either.  I explained why that was the case and that the reason they don't do it didn't apply to Trixie.  And by the way, here's the argument I was responding to:

 

You could also argue that Trixie responding is a thing normal performers do, though I'd argue that it's mostly what comedians do. Magicians tend to go along with their planned act and, as far as I know, they ignore any boos they may get and continue along with their performance.

 

 

 

Sure, it might've turned out good, but what the issue is, is that Trixie isn't exactly a goddess here. She started this whole debacle just because she herself couldn't keep her pride down (remember when @CJPony said that line about the M3?) and how she couldn't just ignore the criticism. She had to come out above them, she couldn't just let the criticism go by. She's a show performer; she should just be performing her act for the entertainment of others, and them move on to another town. Instead she just wants to fuel her own ego.

First of all, it wasn't criticism, it was heckling. Second, while she is a show performer, that doesn't mean that she can't respond to hecklers, plenty of performers do it (mostly comedians but still). Third, she was still performing her act for the entertainment of others. Sure, it might not have the act that she planned to perform but still. 

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,720]

@CJPony

 

Before I reply, I should point out this is a kids show. May be a clever one, but there's no reason to take it too seriously.

Wrong. This is a family-friendly show, NOT a 'kids show'. using that as a justification to not analyze an episode that has a heavily flawed basis is not ideal.

[Yufery 205]

I'm not implying that regular performers don't get bothered. 

 

Anyway, why shouldn't she? Plenty of comedians do it so why can't she? 

 

Let me word my point a little differently. The argument I was responding to was that since magicians in our world doesn't interrupt their show to respond to hecklers, Trixie shouldn't either.  I explained why that was the case and that the reason they don't do it didn't apply to Trixie.  And by the way, here's the argument I was responding to:

 

 

 

 

First of all, it wasn't criticism, it was heckling. Second, while she is a show performer, that doesn't mean that she can't respond to hecklers, plenty of performers do it (mostly comedians but still). Third, she was still performing her act for the entertainment of others. Sure, it might not have the act that she planned to perform but still. 

She's not a comedian; she's a magician. They're doing different types of entertainment with different goals and different things to expect. As far as I know, most magicians don't interrupt their performance to argue with the audience.

 

Yes, I understand your argument, and I countered it. Your argument was that because Trixie doesn't go through as much preparation as a magician in our world, it gives her an excuse to interrupt her own show because she doesn't have as much of a process to go through. I responded by saying, "Just because the magic comes from different sources doesn't excuse Trixie. She interrupted her own show to respond to displeased audience members, not to mention only four of them out of a rather large crowd. From the seems of it, she had a planned out show, but she stopped it to have fights with the audience members." I feel like you may be the one who misunderstand my argument.

 

You love to throw around the word 'hecklers' a lot, huh? Anyway, criticism is defined as "the expression of disapproval of someone or something based on perceived faults or mistakes," which is an appropriate term. I'd say heckler is a bit over an overstretch in this situation if anything, but it works for your argument. As for your second argument, she isn't a comedian, as stated prior. Magicians go along with their planned acts and just put on a fun time with only volunteered audience interaction. If they get boo'd, they shrug it off and continue their act. They aren't comedians; there's different standards for them. Magicians don't interrupt their own performances because they have different acts planned (I can imagine Trixie had some as well). Comedians tend to go off the top of their head thus creating raw and original jokes. They both may be performers but they do things differently, and while perhaps one doing it differently isn't bad in itself, I'd say that Trixie going a more comedian-esque route isn't executed well on her part (but not the episode's! )

 

 

Wrong. This is a family-friendly show, NOT a 'kids show'. using that as a justification to not analyze an episode that has a heavily flawed basis is not ideal.

 

Family-friendly is just a kinder way of saying kids show. They both, in the end, mean the same thing, so it really doesn't matter what term you use. As for the justification, I knew someone would interpret it this way. Funny enough, I actually added that point to the start of my counterargument not as an attempt to drop the whole discussion (if I did that would be hypocritical) but rather just to try to calm the other party down. There's no real reason to get angry over a TV show about brightly colored horses, after all. No one likes to feel anger, either.

 

As for the heavily flawed basis, well that's subjective my friend

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

She's not a comedian; she's a magician. They're doing different types of entertainment with different goals and different things to expect. 

Her performance still reached it's goals and it's expectations, so I fail to see your point. 

 

You love to throw around the word 'hecklers' a lot, huh? Anyway, criticism is defined as "the expression of disapproval of someone or something based on perceived faults or mistakes," which is an appropriate term. 

Another appropriate term is heckling, which is defined as "To try to embarrass and annoy (someone speaking or performing in public) by questions, gibes, or objections". 

 

 

Magicians go along with their planned acts and just put on a fun time with only volunteered audience interaction. 

Because they don't have a choice. Unlike Trixie, they have to prepare their tricks in advance, thus making it impossible for them to break away from their planned acts and do something else. Trixie on the other hand, doesn't suffer from this limitation and is able to create magic tricks as she goes along just as an comedian can do with jokes (which by the way is the reason I compared her to a comedian), thus giving her the chance to do these kinds of things. Also, please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't all of the mane six that got humiliated volunteer? 

[Yufery 205]

Her performance still reached it's goals and it's expectations, so I fail to see your point. 

 

Another appropriate term is heckling, which is defined as "To try to embarrass and annoy (someone speaking or performing in public) by questions, gibes, or objections". 

 

 

Because they don't have a choice. Unlike Trixie, they have to prepare their tricks in advance, thus making it impossible for them to break away from their planned acts and do something else. Trixie on the other hand, doesn't suffer from this limitation and is able to create magic tricks as she goes along just as an comedian can do with jokes (which by the way is the reason I compared her to a comedian), thus giving her the chance to do these kinds of things. Also, please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't all of the mane six that got humiliated volunteer? 

Not really. At least, not when the criticisms come to play. I could see that argument for when she beat the M3 in challenges, but beforehand and even afterwards she just produced sub-par magic. I'd say that the criticisms towards her being a mediocre show-pony still apply. But, the topic-change aside, my point is that she really shouldn't have called them out. She's a magician, not a comedian.

 

Yeah, as I said before, it seems a bit of an overstretch to use, but it is appropriate and I see why you do use it to describe the M3 and Spike's actions.

 

There's plenty of magicians that can break away from their performance and do acts off of a whim. Plus, I'd imagine that Trixie also planned out what magic tricks to perform. By your logic, she's just doing random ones off the top of her head, though I don't think she did this. I'd wager she still had some sort of a formula. And the more I think about it, comedians do as well. Most of the ones I've seen have humorous stories to tell, and chances are they prepare these stories and think of how to present them. I'd imagine even ones that do things like stand-up comedy or ones that have audience interaction plan it out to some degree. Plus, as stated prior, she isn't a comedian. Sure, she might have more freedom with her magic than magicians in our world, but at the end of the day she isn't exactly perfect in this scenario. She broke away from her original performance to argue with members of the audience. While it may have turned out enjoyable, she still started it by responding to them when she could have just as easily ignored them and showed some more impressive magic. You could say that she has every right to respond to the audience's criticisms, but it's a small portion that criticized her. Plus, they never flat out stopped the performance, either, they just verbally expressed their dislike for her actions. She was the one who stopped her performance, and really she shouldn't have in the first place, since I wouldn't think a good magician would have a good portion of their act be filled with boasting and arguing with the audience. As much as I may like Trixie, she isn't good at being a show performer.

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

There's plenty of magicians that can break away from their performance and do acts off of a whim.

That they have prepared in advance yes. Trixie on the other hand, doesn't have to prepare them thus making it possible for her to break away from her planned act. Granted, they can do some simple tricks without preparing but Trixie used somewhat advanced magic. 

 

By your logic, she's just doing random ones off the top of her head, though I don't think she did this. 

No, that's not even close to what I'm saying. I'm saying that Trixie is able to do random spells off the top of her head and that was the reason she was able to challenge her hecklers. I still believe that she had an planned act but broke away from it. 

 

 

She broke away from her original performance to argue with members of the audience. While it may have turned out enjoyable, she still started it by responding to them when she could have just as easily ignored them and showed some more impressive magic. 

I fail to see the problem. She still showed off some impressive magic skills and the audience was entertained. No offense, but you make it seem like she did nothing but argue with members of the audience the entire time. 

 

 

 You could say that she has every right to respond to the audience's criticisms, but it's a small portion that criticized her. 

And your point is? 

 

 

Plus, they never flat out stopped the performance, either, they just verbally expressed their dislike for her actions. She was the one who stopped her performance, 

She didn't stop her performance, she just changed it. 

[Yufery 205]

That they have prepared in advance yes. Trixie on the other hand, doesn't have to prepare them thus making it possible for her to break away from her planned act. Granted, they can do some simple tricks without preparing but Trixie used somewhat advanced magic. 

 

No, that's not even close to what I'm saying. I'm saying that Trixie is able to do random spells off the top of her head and that was the reason she was able to challenge her hecklers. I still believe that she had an planned act but broke away from it. 

 

 

I fail to see the problem. She still showed off some impressive magic skills and the audience was entertained. No offense, but you make it seem like she did nothing but argue with members of the audience the entire time. 

 

 

And your point is? 

 

 

She didn't stop her performance, she just changed it. 

I should point out that in the first portion of the debate, we seen to have gone astray from the original topic. But anyway, going back to what it was originally about, you're saying that she is justified in going away from her performance because she has the ability to?

 

I suppose I could see how you would interpret it as that, however what I'm trying to get across is that, even though the outcome was good, Trixie isn't exactly in the good here since she broke away from her performance. As you stated in another point following, she may have changed it, but she changed it just so she could argue with and challenge the abilities of others to boost her own ego. No matter what way you look at it, her motives in all this were just to make herself look better. The protagonists were just annoyed at this and expressed it in various ways among themselves. Trixie addressed this which caused the eventual conflict of the episode to unfurl. If she had focused on providing a more quality performance from the start and refrained from boasting, it would have turned out good, but since she only did the show for the sake of her ego, the events unfolded.

 

My point is, is that she focused on a small portion of the audience to fight with instead of focusing on just entertaining the rest. She just wanted to prove herself to be better than others, in the end. It's where this all boils down to, after all.

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

 you're saying that she is justified in going away from her performance because she has the ability to?

That's not even close to what I'm saying at all, but whatever. Trixie was justified from breaking away from her act because she provided something equally (if not more) interesting instead. 

 

 My point is, is that she focused on a small portion of the audience to fight with instead of focusing on just entertaining the rest. 

Did the thought that maybe she was doing those two things at the same time ever crossed your mind?  

Edited August 10, 2016 by Yamet

[Yufery 205]

That's not even close to what I'm saying at all, but whatever. Trixie was justified from breaking away from her act because she provided something equally (if not more) interesting instead. 

 

Did the thought that maybe she was doing those two things at the same time ever crossed your mind?  

That's how I interpreted your argument. If you meant something different, then please do elaborate on it.

 

I can understand that point of providing better content with challenging the M3, and while I do agree with it being more interesting, it still makes her look rather unprofessional and just bad overall since she could've easily avoided getting into a conflict with them, as I stated prior.

 

(This is relevent : http://i.imgur.com/EQRdrnr.jpg) 

Haha, but in all seriousness, no doubt she was definitely doing both, though the latter of which seemed more unintentional to me. To be fair, she never had the idea of entertainment be in her mind to begin with. If she was making money off of this, I could understand, but it's a free show that anypony could just walk up to and see. She just did the whole thing with the idea of bragging and boosting her ego in mind. This is evident throughout the episode.

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

That's how I interpreted your argument. If you meant something different, then please do elaborate on it.

Fine. My point was that your argument about  how "magicians don't do these sort of things, therefore Trixie shouldn't do them either" was invalid since magicians aren't able to do so, unlike Trixie. 

 

 

I can understand that point of providing better content with challenging the M3, and while I do agree with it being more interesting, it still makes her look rather unprofessional and just bad overall since she could've easily avoided getting into a conflict with them, as I stated prior.

I fail to see how it makes her look unprofessional. She claimed to be the best at magic, other people disagreed and started heckling and then she proved them wrong. What's so unprofessional about that? 

 

 To be fair, she never had the idea of entertainment be in her mind to begin with. 

Proof? 

[Yufery 205]

Fine. My point was that your argument about  how "magicians don't do these sort of things, therefore Trixie shouldn't do them either" was invalid since magicians aren't able to do so, unlike Trixie. 

 

 

I fail to see how it makes her look unprofessional. She claimed to be the best at magic, other people disagreed and started heckling and then she proved them wrong. What's so unprofessional about that? 

 

Proof? 

Ah, my apologies, I must've read it wrong then, since you were just stating how Trixie just has the ability to perform magic more easily while magicians don't have it. Oh well

 

She looks unprofessional because she broke from her performance routine to have challenges and conflicts with the audience. The majority of show performers, at least ones that aren't comedians but showcase a talent, would likely just shrug off the complaints, especially if it's only from a small portion of the crowd. Trixie chooses to call them out and let the following events ensue, making her look even worse than she did beforehand.

 

Well, while it was never directly stated, I'd say it's fair to make that inference. Throughout the episode, she continuously boasted about her talent, even when she wasn't on stage. She seemed disinterested in fans like Snips & Snails, which further leads me to that conclusion. If she were doing it to entertain them, she would've probably had a bit of fun with them. You could argue that she's a performer, and that she likely was just exhausted, however bare in mind it's not as if she's famous across Equestria, and how she was out in the open as well. It's not like they came banging on her door in her personal time. What further supports this is when she later admits to making up the story about the Ursa Major, and how it was just for show. If you put all of these together, then I'd say it's safe to assume she's doing this for her own ego.