Villainization in Boast Busters | Yufery

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

She looks unprofessional because she broke from her performance routine to have challenges and conflicts with the audience. The majority of show performers, at least ones that aren't comedians but showcase a talent, would likely just shrug off the complaints, especially if it's only from a small portion of the crowd. Trixie chooses to call them out and let the following events ensue, making her look even worse than she did beforehand

I think I've explained why this argument doesn't work ten times now. Trixie unlike magicians in our world is able to call her hecklers out and challenge them because she doesn't have to prepare her magic tricks. And because magicians have to prepare their tricks in advance, they can't call their hecklers out in the same way that Trixie can,  which is the reason they don't.

 

Throughout the episode, she continuously boasted about her talent, even when she wasn't on stage. 

So, show performers boast all of the time? Also, one could argue that Trixie was playing a character and simply choose to stay in character even when she wasn't on stage.

 

 She seemed disinterested in fans like Snips & Snails, which further leads me to that conclusion.

So?  Maybe she doesn't like being bothered by her fans on her free time? 

 

What further supports this is when she later admits to making up the story about the Ursa Major, and how it was just for show. 

Oh no, a show performer that lies a little to impress her audience? What shocking news. 

 

Seriously though, you can count the show performers who doesn't lie on one hand.

[Yufery 205]

I think I've explained why this argument doesn't work ten times now. Trixie unlike magicians in our world is able to call her hecklers out and challenge them because she doesn't have to prepare her magic tricks. And because magicians have to prepare their tricks in advance, they can't call their hecklers out in the same way that Trixie can,  which is the reason they don't.

 

So, show performers boast all of the time? Also, one could argue that Trixie was playing a character and simply choose to stay in character even when she wasn't on stage.

 

So?  Maybe she doesn't like being bothered by her fans on her free time? 

 

Oh no, a show performer that lies a little to impress her audience? What shocking news. 

 

Seriously though, you can count the show performers who doesn't lie on one hand.

In that point, I didn't even refer to magicians. I just said show performers as a general standpoint. Plus, you're saying Trixie is able to while they can't, due to their more scheduled approach to a show. You then continue to say that if they could, they would. But why would they? For comedians I understand, as their main focus is comedy, and generally it doesn't matter where it comes from, but why would magicians? They wouldn't have anything to prove, since most folk don't know how to perform the illusions they do, and I don't think they could make any good jokes. Perhaps there are some that could, but I can't imagine most are all amazing jokesters.

 

I actually addressed this point in the original video. What I said was roughly that, in Trixie's case, it was how she acted all throughout, even when she wasn't on stage. This is even further supported by her later episodes. Even besides that, it could be seen as fairly agitating, especially when they don't provide any good performances to live up to their hype. You could say Trixie did when she challenged the M3 to showcase their abilities, however this wasn't the root of their arguments. You could argue she debunked the complaints that she doesn't have talented magic, but this is countered when she tried her hand at defeating the Ursa Minor.

 

If she built up the hype for herself, she should expect it. If she doesn't want to be bothered, she could just head into her house, or anywhere that isn't out in the open. Plus, the way she handled the fans is really what sets the argument, as she refers to herself in a high manner when dealing with them, supporting my point.

 

You misunderstand why I mentioned that. It's not because I said performers lying is a bad thing, it's because I used it to further validate how she was only doing the whole thing to boost her ego.

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

But why would they? 

Maybe because some people keep saying that you aren't as good as you claim and you want to prove them wrong? 

 

 

I actually addressed this point in the original video. What I said was roughly that, in Trixie's case, it was how she acted all throughout, even when she wasn't on stage,.

And as I pointed out, maybe she's just playing a character and still stays in character after the show has ended. 

 

 

This is even further supported by her later episodes. 

Could you explain this a little more? 

 

Even besides that, it could be seen as fairly agitating, especially when they don't provide any good performances to live up to their hype. 

They didn't give her any chance to. Plus, as you yourself point out, she actually did that when she challenged her hecklers. 

 

 You could argue she debunked the complaints that she doesn't have talented magic, but this is countered when she tried her hand at defeating the Ursa Minor

No it isn't. Sure, she couldn't defeat the Ursa Minor but that doesn't mean that she isn't talented when it comes to magic. It's like saying that you have to be able to paint a perfect replica of the Mona Lisa to say that you have an talent for painting. 

 

 

If she built up the hype for herself, she should expect it. If she doesn't want to be bothered, she could just head into her house, or anywhere that isn't out in the open. 

No, she has the right to stay out in the open without being bothered regardless of how much hype she have built up her herself. 

 

 It's not because I said performers lying is a bad thing, it's because I used it to further validate how she was only doing the whole thing to boost her ego.

And you missed my point. Show performers tells lies like that all of the time, so why is it bad when Trixie does it? 

Edited August 10, 2016 by Yamet

[Yufery 205]

Maybe because some people keep saying that you aren't as good as you claim and you want to prove them wrong? 

 

 

And as I pointed out, maybe she's just playing a character and still stays in character after the show has ended. 

 

 

Could you explain this a little more? 

 

They didn't give her any chance to. Plus, as you yourself point out, she actually did that when she challenged her hecklers. 

 

No it isn't. Sure, she couldn't defeat the Ursa Minor but that doesn't mean that she isn't talented when it comes to magic. It's like saying that you have to be able to paint a perfect replica of the Mona Lisa to say that you have an talent for painting. 

 

 

No, she has the right to stay out in the open without being bothered regardless of how much hype she have built up her herself. 

 

And you missed my point. Show performers tells lies like that all of the time, so why is it bad when Trixie does it? 

Okay, I'll give you that much, I could see a couple lines being tossed around that way, but even then they still could do that now regardless of their schedule. They could just say, use it to hype up their next trick. They really don't have any reason to get into a full on argument/conflict with their audience like Trixie did.

 

She isn't playing a character; if she is, then she never stops. This is supported how in Magic Duel (S3) and No Second Prances (S6) she continuously refers to herself in the third person and as The Great and Powerful Trixie. Perhaps later on it dies down as she develops as a character (and how she wasn't even herself during most of Magic Duel), but the point still stands that this is just how she acts as a pony.

 

She still hyped herself up to be the greatest and most magical unicorn there is. It's not even just an act; she genuinely gave off that impression when she was offstage. She didn't live up to the expectations. Yes, she did perform some decent magic while facing off against the M3, but beforehand there wasn't anything to go off of to show that she was talented. And while maybe they did start complaining at the start, she still didn't really start off with anything impressive, rather just with gloating. If she was just a show performer, perhaps it'd be different, but she just did the whole show to fuel her ego. I personally, quite frankly, could see how the M3+Spike would be annoyed at her at the start, and especially gain it later on. Plus, she interrupted her own show when she addressed their criticisms. So while they may have started to complain early on, I could see how given that she was gloating from the start while not doing any sort of impressive spell as an introduction, save for flashy fireworks. Not to mention how she paused her own show.

 

She does have that right, but you miss my point entirely. I didn't bring that up to debate if she has a right to be pestered, I brought it up to support how she's just a show performer to fuel her own ego.

 

Your point implied that I made the claim it's bad that show performers lie. What I exactly said was, "What further supports this is when she later admits to making up the story about the Ursa Major, and how it was just for show." I never debated the morality of the lying (which I don't think it's too big of a deal for show performers to fib here and there. As stated prior, constant gloating with only sub-par results (as Trixie did before the challenge) can be annoying, but if they just make up a lie to fuel the hype while they perform interesting tricks, I don't see it as a big deal), rather I just brought up the argument to support my argument (did I mention argument?) that she was just fueling her own ego.

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

She isn't playing a character; if she is, then she never stops. 

Except at the end of both boast busters and the magical duel. 

 

 She didn't live up to the expectations. 

Because she was never given the change to. It's hardly fair to judge the entire show after the first few minuets. Maybe if they had waited a little longer, I'd see your point. 

 

If she was just a show performer, perhaps it'd be different, but she just did the whole show to fuel her ego. 

Proof? 

 

 

She does have that right, but you miss my point entirely. I didn't bring that up to debate if she has a right to be pestered, I brought it up to support how she's just a show performer to fuel her own ego.

But you heavily implied that she didn't have that right because she hyped herself up. You did say that if she didn't want to bothered by fans she shouldn't be out in the open.  

 

Also, by your logic, Weird Al is just an artist to fuel his own ego since he didn't want me following him around all day. 

 

 

 I never debated the morality of the lying (which I don't think it's too big of a deal for show performers to fib here and there. 

Except when Trixie does it apparently.  

 

Also, you missed my point. Show performers lies all the time. So why on earth is it so bad when Trixie does it? 

 

And keep in mind that she had the magical skills to back up her boasting (as shown when she challenged her hecklers) and that the show had just started. 

[Yufery 205]

Except at the end of both boast busters and the magical duel. 

 

Because she was never given the change to. It's hardly fair to judge the entire show after the first few minuets. Maybe if they had waited a little longer, I'd see your point. 

 

Proof? 

 

 

But you heavily implied that she didn't have that right because she hyped herself up. You did say that if she didn't want to bothered by fans she shouldn't be out in the open.  

 

Also, by your logic, Weird Al is just an artist to fuel his own ego since he didn't want me following him around all day. 

 

 

Except when Trixie does it apparently.  

 

Also, you missed my point. Show performers lies all the time. So why on earth is it so bad when Trixie does it? 

 

And keep in mind that she had the magical skills to back up her boasting (as shown when she challenged her hecklers) and that the show had just started. 

Just because a wacky character has down to earth moments doesn't mean that when they're wacky they're 'playing a character.' For instance, Pinkie Pie has had several down to earth moments throughout the series even though she's incredibly hyperactive. Trixie is the same during the more serious bits of her episode.

 

I can see your point here, however I'd still continue to argue that the introduction is the most important part, at least among them. Though, even after that, I'd say the episode's pacing could suffer if they spent longer dwelling on Trixie's boasting. Granted, if  done right, it couldn't have hurt, but as the episode stands now, I personally would say that it's fine.

 

I've already listed the proof beforehand in this thread. To summarize, however, it's an inference I made using Trixie's actions throughout the episode, and I came to the conclusion that she's just doing it to boast. I went into way more detail when I listed it beforehand.

 

I never said she didn't have that right; I said she should expect it. I'm sure she doesn't want to be bothered by fans at every moment of the day, but if she's going to do something that could build herself a fanbase, she should expect it. Though, I do apologize if you got that from what I said, since I hadn't meant to draw you to that.

 

In regards to your Weird Al point and the following one, and I do mean this in the nicest way possible, but did you read the point I made about her being a show performer to fuel her ego? From these arguments, it seems like you skimmed over it and just looked for anything that you could counter, even though you're countering points I never made? For instance, for your Weird Al point, you made it seem like I made a claim that show performers are egotistical for not wanting fans with them out in public all the time, even though I never once said that. The same applies to your point about Trixie lying. I never once said that it was bad that Trixie lied, nor did I imply it. It seems to me like you're just looking for something you could argue against. I could be wrong, and chances are I am, since you have been bringing up some good arguments, however in regards to those two they do fall flat in regards to this discussion.

 

As I said prior, Trixie isn't the greatest. She may have some degree of skill, yes, however she isn't the greatest like she claims. She still never lived up to the expectations she set for herself, even if she showed off some talent by besting the M3. As for the second point in that final sentence, I addressed it prior.

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

I never said she didn't have that right; I said she should expect it.

 

I never said that you said that, I said that you heavily implied it.  

 

 For instance, for your Weird Al point, you made it seem like I made a claim that show performers are egotistical for not wanting fans with them out in public all the time, even though I never once said that. 

 

No. I said that since you claim that Trixie being disinterested in Snip and Snails meant that she was just doing the show for her own ego, then it also meant that if Weird Al doesn't want to follow me around (you know, kind of how Snips and Snails followed Trixie around) meant that he was being an artist simply for his own ego since he disinterested in me. Granted, I could've probably worded it a little better. 

 

I never once said that it was bad that Trixie lied, nor did I imply it.

Let me remind you of your argument. Trixie lied about defeating the Ursa Major, this somehow proofs that she is only doing it to boast her own ego.

 

How doesn't it imply that it was bad that Trixie lied? 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Yamet

[Yufery 205]

I never said that you said that, I said that you heavily implied it.  

 

 

No. I said that since you claim that Trixie being disinterested in Snip and Snails meant that she was just doing the show for her own ego, then it also meant that if Weird Al doesn't want to follow me around (you know, kind of how Snips and Snails followed Trixie around) meant that he was being an artist simply for his own ego since he disinterested in me. Granted, I could've probably worded it a little better. 

 

Let me remind you of your argument. Trixie lied about defeating the Ursa Major, this somehow proofs that she is only doing it to boast her own ego.

 

How doesn't it imply that it was bad that Trixie lied? 

You treated it as if I flat out said it. But, granted, since I admitted I didn't mean to come across that way, it doesn't really matter overall.

 

That's exactly what I said, at least in meaning; you just worded it differently. But, again, it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of the debate. Anyway, as I said in my previous point, this wasn't what I was trying to get across. I was saying that the way Trixie handled Snips & Snails helps show she's just an egotistical pony, given that she continued to refer to herself rather highly.

 

You completely misunderstood the point I was trying to get across there. The reason I brought that point up is because Trixie flat out SAID that she only lied about the Ursa Major to make herself look better. I never said that it was bad that she lied.

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

You treated it as if I flat out said it. 

I fail to see how I should have treated it differently. 

 

 

The reason I brought that point up is because Trixie flat out SAID that she only lied about the Ursa Major to make herself look better. 

Alright, you got me there. I'm mature enough to admit when I'm defeated. 

[Yufery 205]

I fail to see how I should have treated it differently. 

 

 

Alright, you got me there. I'm mature enough to admit when I'm defeated. 

Haha, honestly, fair enough, you're right there. Though as I said, I hadn't meant to imply that, so I do honestly apologize that I came off that way.

 

Well, I'm glad to see that the debate, or at least that specific portion of it, ended well, then!  (Though I'm not sure if it's over yet so I'd rather not give closure by chance it isn't )

Edited August 11, 2016 by Yufery