A Season 6 Starlight's Village episode

[KH7672 1,604]

Yes, you read that title correctly. I want to thank @cmarston1 for this idea with their dream synopsis in a previous thread.

So what I mean is: Image you are Josh Haber (or any of the writers) and instead of "The Crystalling" (or any of the earlier episodes) being your Season 6 episode synopsis, you have to now write the episode about Starlight going back to her village to earn their trust (i.e. that scene in the Season 5 finale never happened).  

This means it is not fan-fiction (or to be treated as serious or ridiculous fan-fiction can get) this is to be written as an actual episode for the show engaging for it's intended audience and fans alike. How would you do it? How would this benefit Starlight, the show, and the audience with this being a core episode in Season 6 that all other episodes follow? Are you going to drastically change Starlight and if so how is that going to affect future episodes?

[Megas 27,786]

Would have been better than wasting that potential on a bullshit montage. But alas the time has already come and S6 is done. It's too late now

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

I’m not certain it had to be the premier, I’m not sure there would be enough material for a two parter, but it deserved an episode at the very least.

If I was to write the episode, it would start how it did in the montage of the season five finale, with her and Twilight returning to the village, and Double Diamond, Night Glider, Party Favor, and Sugar Belle forgiving her. The rest of the villagers would be a mix of welcoming and wary, with some angry. There’d be some flashbacks centered around how she convinced them to follow her into the middle of nowhere and give up their Cutie marks for a chance at a fresh start surrounded by friends. Starlight has a confrontation with those who are still angry with her, and starts to question if she really does deserve the second chance she’s been given.  Blah, blah, blah, she saves the people who still doubted from some dangerous crises, and gets them to at least accept her apology, even if they won’t forgive, and she’s and Twilight go back to Ponyville.

Ultimately, this changes little to nothing of Starlight’s redemption arc, her villagers still forgive her, she still is Twilight’s student, and she’s still has a rough ride ahead of her. The only thing this really does is give greater meaning behind her village inviting her to their Sunset Festival in the finale.

 As for how this would effect the audience? I’m going to go with my cynical side and say it does almost nothing. Most of the people who hate(d) Starlight would just find some other reason to hate her, or would even go so far as to say the episode itself sucked for some reason. The people who didn’t irrationally hate her were already convinced to at least give her a chance by No Second Prances, so I don’t think this episode would lead to any significant difference.

Edited November 9, 2017 by ShootingStar159

[KH7672 1,604]

3 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

I’m not certain it had to be the premier, I’m not sure there would be enough material for a two parter, but it deserved an episode at the very least.

If I was to write the episode, it would start how it did in the montage of the season five finale, with her and Twilight returning to the village, and Double Diamond, Night Glider, Party Favor, and Sugar Belle forgiving her. The rest of the villagers would be a mix of welcoming and wary, with some angry. There’d be some flashbacks centered around how she convinced them to follow her into the middle of nowhere and give up their Cutie marks for a chance at a fresh start surrounded by friends. Starlight’s has a confrontation with those who are still angry with her, and starts to question if she really does deserve the second chance she’s been given.  Blah, blah, blah, she saves the people who still doubted from some dangerous crises, and gets them to at least accept her apology, even if they won’t forgive, and she’s and Twilight go back to Ponyville.

I really do like that idea as it can give some details of how the villagers really were treated. Although, said crisis is does sound a bit forced and drifting closely into retreading Rainbow Rocks. It still could work. Say there was a beast in that labyrinth of caves that only Starlight knew of because she clearly was the only one who knew the layout of the caves. It could be revealed that she was keeping the beast at bay her entire leadership time without thsm knowing so that their utopia would not be ruined. Now this could give the villagers a different way to see her as a leader; a better side. However the downside to this is whether she would still be hesitant as a leader in the future. This episode would show she has good potential and care as a leader for others but then where would her confict go for the finale? These are the ideas I'm trying to understand because ultimately:

12 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

As for how this would effect the audience? I’m going to go with my cynical side and say it does almost nothing. Most of the people who hate(d) Starlight would just find some other reason to hate her, or would even go so far as to say the episode itself sucked for some reason. The people who didn’t irrationally hate her were already convicted by No Second Prances, so I don’t think this episode would lead to any significant difference.

It is this conclusion that I'm wondering about. Would this episode really be worthwhile in the long run. Are there more possiblities to take her. Do you lose too much of the individual struggle with this revelation to herself? This is how you can ultimately decide what the best path others say should have been by examining the possiblities and their outcomes. I'm not trying to change a character to fit others wants, I'm trying to examine how well this wanton change would actually work in the end! Thanks for the synopsis, I hope more may follow but you've definitely given an interesting perspective from one who like her.

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

6 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

I really do like that idea as it can give some details of how the villagers really were treated. Although, said crisis is does sound a bit forced and drifting closely into retreading Rainbow Rocks. It still could work. Say there was a beast in that labyrinth of caves that only Starlight knew of because she clearly was the only one who knew the layout of the caves. It could be revealed that she was keeping the beast at bay her entire leadership time without thsm knowing so that their utopia would not be ruined. Now this could give the villagers a different way to see her as a leader; a better side. However the downside to this is whether she would still be hesitant as a leader in the future. This episode would show she has good potential and care as a leader for others but then where would her confict go for the finale? These are the ideas I'm trying to understand because ultimately:

I was thinking of a magical solution instead of a leadership one, she’s already confident in her magic, she just doesn’t think she’s a good leader, and the angry reception she received when she went back would reinforce that belief.

 

8 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

It is this conclusion that I'm wondering about. Would this episode really be worthwhile in the long run. Are there more possiblities to take her. Do you lose too much of the individual struggle with this revelation to herself? This is how you can ultimately decide what the best path others say should have been by examining the possiblities and their outcomes. I'm not trying to change a character to fit others wants, I'm trying to examine how well this wanton change would actually work in the end! Thanks for the synopsis, I hope more may follow but you've definitely given an interesting perspective from one who like her.

It would be worthwhile to the people who liked her, or were at least willing to give her a chance. Like I said, I don’t think this episode would change how popular she became during season six, but if this was the premier, the only real difference is she would have gained more popularity sooner. And I do think this episode idea would improve the idea of her returning again for the festival. As you pointed out, the episode would have some similarities with Rainbow Rocks, but like I said, people who hated her would find any reason to hate her anyways.

[KH7672 1,604]

1 minute ago, ShootingStar159 said:

I was thinking of a magical solution instead of a leadership one, she’s already confident in her magic, she just doesn’t think she’s a good leader, and the angry reception she received when she went back would reinforce that belief.

Ah I see so instead of reinforcing her strength as a leader, reinforce her strength in magic, thus becoming the only thing she feels good at as it solves her trust problem leading to a more organic feel to use it more freely in the later episodes. That definitely keeps the status quo of the season. But like you also said this can lead to a complaint of her reliance on magic. Still would it have helped if this reliance on magic did some physical good first before she uses it later to mess up and learn from the situation? But then that would make it feel even more of a step backwards for her in later episodes if she already has exhibited the difference in expending magic for the good of others vs. the good of herself. So she would lose the lesson of "Every Little Thing." Is that episode worth dropping? Now we're starting to change Starlight from understandably lacking social skills to just being defiant of them in favor of magic. We are losing the internal struggle the character went through in favor a lesser or even more backward one.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

That BS song sequence really hurt Starlight's popularity even today, they could just leave it open and make an episode for it, but no, they want to continue 'Happy season finale ending song sequence to end the season on high note' tradition, and thank god, there are no songs in S6, S7 finale. 

There is no way to fix that BS song now. The only way to fix it that i could think of is: maybe Twilight is the one who came to Equal Town, convinced Equal Four to forgive Glimmy and bring her here to prove whether she is remorseful for her actions or not, done. Writers, take this idea and make an episode, i swear it will fix everything.

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

10 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

Still would it have helped if this reliance on magic did some physical good first before she uses it later to mess up and learn from the situation? But then that would make it feel even more of a step backwards for her in later episodes if she already has exhibited the difference in expending magic for the good of others vs. the good of herself. So she would lose the lesson of "Every Little Thing." Is that episode worth dropping? Now we're starting to change Starlight from understandably lacking social skills to just being defiant of them in favor of magic. We are losing the internal struggle the character went through in favor a lesser or even more backward one.

I don’t think this would negate or worsen the lesson learned in ELTSD.

I don’t think there would be much difference between her using her magic to save her villagers and her using her magic to save Trixie from the Manticore. I think the difference is that where you see ELTSD as Starlight only trying to help herself, I see it as Starlight trying to help everyone. She even says “Everypony wins!” I think we discussed this before actually, but I think Starlight’s life of isolation and having to fend for herself has led her to viewpoint that isn’t selfish, but self centered. “If I think this is a good idea, then Everypony else will too.”

 It could also be that she has an idea and just goes with it, only realizing later it wasn’t good idea, like with A Royal Problem. She is highly impulsive.

[KH7672 1,604]

7 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

I don’t think this would negate or worsen the lesson learned in ELTSD.

I don’t think there would be much difference between her using her magic to save her villagers and her using her magic to save Trixie from the Manticore. I think the difference is that where you see ELTSD as Starlight only trying to help herself, I see it as Starlight trying to help everyone. She even says “Everypony wins!” I think we discussed this before actually, but I think Starlight’s life of isolation and having to fend for herself has led her to viewpoint that isn’t selfish, but self centered. “If I think this is a good idea, then Everypony else will too.”

 It could also be that she has an idea and just goes with it, only realizing later it wasn’t good idea, like with A Royal Problem. She is highly impulsive.

Yeah the selfish aspect is drawing more from what others have said about the episode. I see that now how that idea of self centeredness translates to her village. She gives them an idea of life that they agree to, maybe not thinking through the consequences of being without a cutie mark. She is finding a solution for others that came about from a solution for her own cutie mark issues. So if this is the mindset she was in as their leader, where are the issues to be dealt with other than deceit in this village episode? Now we would have to dig into how she treated them but by this mindset of a pony who was not selfish but self centered, all that would mean is she would want a community where she is in charge but feels no need to "rule over them" they follow her rules and she follows theirs, give or take an huge execption done only because she would not be able to take cutie marks away otherwise. So if they were not treated poorly, followed a rule willingly just as much as their leader did, wouldn't it be kind of petty to hold a grudge over the deceit aspect especially when said deceit was not for her benefit but for her towns benefit to keep the community's philosophy. They would be just as much to blame for their outcome as she is. So maybe that's why the episode would not be necessary, if this were the chain of events everypony was in the wrong and they realized that, so what's the point in holding onto past mistakes and instead embrace the better life they have been given. I mean sure an episode could have helped to make that sentiment more obvious but this missed opportunity came from the same writer who felt no need to expand on Starlight's parents, it comes down to the audience to work out but hey I'm probably just making excuses at this point.

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

5 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

but hey I'm probably just making excuses at this point.

Ha, well isn’t this the point of the discussion? Trying to poke holes in the different theories?

 

6 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

Yeah the selfish aspect is drawing more from what others have said about the episode. I see that now how that idea of self centeredness translates to her village. She gives them an idea of life that they agree to, maybe not thinking through the consequences of being without a cutie mark. She is finding a solution for others that came about from a solution for her own cutie mark issues. So if this is the mindset she was in as their leader, where are the issues to be dealt with other than deceit in this village episode? Now we would have to dig into how she treated them but by this mindset of a pony who was not selfish but self centered, all that would mean is she would want a community where she is in charge but feels no need to "rule over them" they follow her rules and she follows theirs, give or take an huge execption done only because she would not be able to take cutie marks away otherwise. So if they were not treated poorly, followed a rule willingly just as much as their leader did, wouldn't it be kind of petty to hold a grudge over the deceit aspect especially when said deceit was not for her benefit but for her towns benefit to keep the community's philosophy. They would be just as much to blame for their outcome as she is. So maybe that's why the episode would not be necessary, if this were the chain of events everypony was in the wrong and they realized that, so what's the point in holding onto past mistakes and instead embrace the better life they have been given.

She brought them together for an ideal centered around the greater good, but as she said in To Where and Back Again, she became attached to the power she had. “I know what it’s like to want Everypony to do what you say.” When Twilight and the others found her, she was twisted, manipulative, and cruel, and I don’t think she was always like that. We know from A Rock Solid Friendship that Starlight was building her village during Maud’s rockology studies, and Maud left for that after season 4, ep18, only eight episodes before The Cutie Map. Even with a generous estimate of time progression, Starlight was only in charge of her village for a matter of months, just long enough for her to start being corrupted by her newfound power. (She didn’t try and steal Maud’s Cutie mark for example) And just long enough for some ponies in the village to start missing their Cutie marks. As far as how badly she treated her villagers, I don’t think it ever went beyond emotional blackmail and manipulation. When PF, SB, and NG talked about missing their Cutie marks, they only said that Starlight wouldn’t like them wanting their Cutie marks, and that she wanted them to be “happy in their sameness.”

Starlight was able to justify how she acted by saying it was for the greater good, but after Twilight beat her, she realized just how wrong she was, and I think that scared her. Starlight beats herself up over what she did more than anyone else does, and frankly more than she deserves or is healthy for her.

[KH7672 1,604]

20 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

She brought them together for an ideal centered around the greater good, but as she said in To Where and Back Again, she became attached to the power she had. “I know what it’s like to want Everypony to do what you say.” When Twilight and the others found her, she was twisted, manipulative, and cruel, and I don’t think she was always like that. We know from A Rock Solid Friendship that Starlight was building her village during Maud’s rockology studies, and Maud left for that after season 4, ep18, only eight episodes before The Cutie Map. Even with a generous estimate of time progression, Starlight was only in charge of her village for a matter of months, just long enough for her to start being corrupted by her newfound power. (She didn’t try and steal Maud’s Cutie mark for example) And just long enough for some ponies in the village to start missing their Cutie marks. As far as how badly she treated her villagers, I don’t think it ever went beyond emotional blackmail and manipulation. When PF, SB, and NG talked about missing their Cutie marks, they only said that Starlight wouldn’t like them wanting their Cutie marks, and that she wanted them to be “happy in their sameness.”

That's definitely where we have our first difference in our villain line up. Starlight was the first villain who did not seek power or was corrupted by it in the first place. It was only after achieving said position and power did things start to get to her. This is not uncommon, seriously I've seen the friendliest of Shift Leads go to the bossiest of Assistant Managers because of the increased stress in the new position. She has to deal with differing opinions and feelings now (those that started to miss cutie marks) and with the chance of turning an alicorn on her side this was feeding more and more into her messed up philosophy.

It's interesting to note too that she never could have planned to take the Mane 6's cutie marks away in the first place, she only acted on impulse when they got too curious and knew too much to leave. I say this because she didn't know who told them about the vault. Obviously she planned the ambush once they inquired but there is no way she had Nightglider, Sugar Belle, and Party Favor set them up, or else what benefit would it be in feigning knowledge, even if it was to test Fluttershy, why would she actually put Party Favor through the reconditioning if he was already on her side to begin with. The logic of the episode begins to fall apart if Starlight is supposed to be more evil and power hungry than just a pony who began to rely too much on her power when her flimsy philosophy that she believed to be for the greater good was tested. So is this the problem, that people are finding Starlight's philosophy too much in the right? Because in the end even she realized what she believed was ridiculous, and if she is willingly coming back to the village with no desire to inflict her philosophy that brought them together in the first place before realizing their deceit then why not easily offer forgiveness if everypony is now on the same page, or in Starlight's case maybe even a page behind because she doesn't consider herself worthy of their forgiveness. She knows she messed up, they know she messed up, they know they're living better after messing up, she knows they're living better without her messing things up what more could a village episode offer than constantly beating the audience over the head about how much every character messed up; something already being complained about Starlight herself.

[Hierok 11,832]

I mentioned in that threat that it would be better if it was instead of 28 pranks. That is a episode noone will miss and a good time after her reforming, so she has already learned something, which makes her believable.

[cmarston1 5,959]

I greatly would have preferred getting this episode instead of Every Little Thing She Does.

[LyricaDreamy 43]

No one was really physically harmed during Starlight's reign they just have their free will taken away thats all according to what i've seen . Besides didn't she founded that place? edit: okay maybe that part when twilights's cutie mark was changed counts as physical pain

Edited November 9, 2017 by LyricaDreamy

[Brainstorm 4,112]

As seen in S6, the village forgave Starlight, I'm thinking that Starlight would return with Twilight and Spike, and Trixie  because Starlight might've forgotten something there.

[Hierok 11,832]

15 minutes ago, Brainstorm said:

As seen in S6, the village forgave Starlight, I'm thinking that Starlight would return with Twilight and Spike, and Trixie  because Starlight might've forgotten something there.

It was a bit too quick for me. I actually hoped she would proof herself to them. 

[CypherHoof 26,483]

34 minutes ago, Hierok said:

It was a bit too quick for me. I actually hoped she would proof herself to them. 

It /was/ a montage though - its possible that there was a longer sequence we didn't see.

[Hierok 11,832]

20 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

It /was/ a montage though - its possible that there was a longer sequence we didn't see.

Then still, I rather had that shot not in the finale, but as an episode apart. 

[CypherHoof 26,483]

1 minute ago, Hierok said:

Then still, I rather had that shot not in the finale, but as an episode apart. 

Oh, I agree. her primary offence was against them; she really has a lot to make up for, even if they are being forgiving (possibly prompted by Twilight)

Really while her biggie was to try and destroy Twilight (and almost destroying the whole of Equestria in the process) that's between her and Twi.

[Hierok 11,832]

2 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

Oh, I agree. her primary offence was against them; she really has a lot to make up for, even if they are being forgiving (possibly prompted by Twilight)

Really while her biggie was to try and destroy Twilight (and almost destroying the whole of Equestria in the process) that's between her and Twi.

She didn't destroy Equestria at all. In other timelines it still was not destroyed. 

[CypherHoof 26,483]

2 minutes ago, Hierok said:

She didn't destroy Equestria at all. In other timelines it still was not destroyed. 

Well, in the final timeline it was just a lifeless desert.

Actually, depending on how you model time changes, it is possible she actually created those alternate timelines, and they carried on after Twi left them and returned to the past - so she *did* successfully destroy Equestria at least once, and doomed it to a horrible future in the others...

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

59 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

Well, in the final timeline it was just a lifeless desert.

Actually, depending on how you model time changes, it is possible she actually created those alternate timelines, and they carried on after Twi left them and returned to the past - so she *did* successfully destroy Equestria at least once, and doomed it to a horrible future in the others...

I do have a couple problems with this line of thinking.

One, this is a kids show with an emphasis placed on forgiveness and understanding. It never says that Starlight created alternate timelines, so why assume that when it turns her into a mass murderer? Seems pointlessly dark to me.

The other, bigger, problem, is that this makes Twilight complicit in creating these alternate timelines as well. She is also responsible for all the people who suffered in these timelines since she also meddled to try and stop Starlight. She might not be as responsible as Starlight, but it’s her actions that cause every timeline after Sombra to happen.

This whole mess is just easier, cleaner, and in my opinion, a better story if all those timelines never happened as soon as Twilight uses the spell to go back in time to correct the timeline.

[CypherHoof 26,483]

1 hour ago, ShootingStar159 said:

I do have a couple problems with this line of thinking.

One, this is a kids show with an emphasis placed on forgiveness and understanding. It never says that Starlight created alternate timelines, so why assume that when it turns her into a mass murderer? Seems pointlessly dark to me.

The other, bigger, problem, is that this makes Twilight complicit in creating these alternate timelines as well. She is also responsible for all the people who suffered in these timelines since she also meddled to try and stop Starlight. She might not be as responsible as Starlight, but it’s her actions that cause every timeline after Sombra to happen.

This whole mess is just easier, cleaner, and in my opinion, a better story if all those timelines never happened as soon as Twilight uses the spell to go back in time to correct the timeline.

Sure, that's another model. Or you could just say the Tree fixes everything at the end after Twi resolves the Friendship Problem, and that's what the big flash is.

[Megas 27,786]

On 11/8/2017 at 10:18 PM, Hierok said:

I mentioned in that threat that it would be better if it was instead of 28 pranks. That is a episode noone will miss and a good time after her reforming, so she has already learned something, which makes her believable.

 

On 11/9/2017 at 6:31 AM, cmarston1 said:

I greatly would have preferred getting this episode instead of Every Little Thing She Does.

If only we could offer 28 Pranks Later and ELTSD as sacrificial lambs to the great Pony gods and so we could get something like this instead since people would actually be interested in it

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

40 minutes ago, Kiryu-Chan said:

 

If only we could offer 28 Pranks Later and ELTSD as sacrificial lambs to the great Pony gods and so we could get something like this instead since people would actually be interested in it

As far as I’m aware, ELTSD is way more liked than it is hated. I liked it a lot, it did a great job showing that Starlight’s way of thinking is still screwy, even though she wants to be a better person. I know many of her fans love this about her and it’s what makes her path to redemption more believable than any of the other reformed villains. What was so horrible about the episode that it needs to be removed all together?