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The representation of Sunset's Past and Fall is Lopsided to a Bothersome Degree.


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(edited)

Specifically, all of the things we've learned about Sunset and Celestia's relationship so seems to go out of its way to suggest that Sunset's fall was entirely her own fault. But this doesn't make sense or stand up to logical muster. Celestia specifically chose Sunset to be her protege, just as she did Twilight, and until things turned off the tracks presumably had Twi's current role in mind for her. Sunset clearly had faults, like her ambition and callousness, but Celestia as her mentor had a responsibility to try to right the path Sunset was on. And even if you say that it was impossible for Sunset to verge back away from the darkness at that point in time, it is unbelievably reckless and careless of Celestia to simply let her go into self-imposed exile in a dimension neither of them knew much of anything about. What if serious harm had come to her?

And you do get the sense, from how Sunset responded to Celestia's treatment of and relationship with Twi in Forgotten Friendship, and from their interactions in the comic that gave more context to Sunset's flight, that Celestia never really cared for Sunset in the same way that she did Twilight; at the very least, it seems like she was far more harsh and confrontational than we've ever seen her be with Twilight (Sunset was surprised that Celestia even had a sense of humor, apparently). And yet the show has never suggested that maybe Celestia's missteps and behavior contributed to the situation even slightly; this is the one major issue I had with Forgotten Friendship, when they reconciled Sunset just accepted all of the blame for what happened unto herself and Celestia didn't interject at all, not even a simple, "Maybe I could have done some things differently with you, as well."

In the end, clearly Sunset's ambition and cold nature what were the greatest contributing factor to her fall, but I entirely reject the idea that Celestia holds no blame, which seems to be the series's position. I'm sorry, but if you hand-pick someone to be your personal apprentice and trainee and they fall from the path, you hold blame for not steering them right and especially for not at least recognizing the severity of their problems before they reach a point of no return. Celestia did not do this, and neither has she acknowledged it, and I don't know why. Maybe it is because the writers want her moral character and decision-making, her general goodness, to be above reproach, but even the best people make mistakes, and to me this was a clear one. From how Sunset is now, it is obvious that she was by no means a lost cause; she failed herself, yes, but Celestia also failed her. I wish the show would touch on that aspect of the situation. What are your thoughts?

Edited by FearTheBelle
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I've always felt that Sunset's fall was at least partially to blame on Celestia, and now that you mention it, in the comic, Celestia SAID in EQG that she tried to help Sunset, but she didn't.  She really didn't.  She showed Sunset the mirror, and then told her nothing about it.  I was thinking about how Celestia was partially to blame in Sunset's fall just recently, and as I was watching Forgotten Friendship, this line in particular stood out to me, "Are you saying I wasn't a good teacher?" And then Sunset and Twilight then get, frightened?  Hmmmmmm. . . Firstly, yes, Celestia, considering that Twilight and her friends were able to get her to accept friendship(yes I know, that was mostly the Elements of Harmony's doing), learn about it, and cherish it, while when she was literally your STAR STUDENT she "turned cruel and dishonest", yes, you were a bad teacher.  And secondly, if Celestia really was the kind, caring, and all-knowing leader we're supposed to think of her as, what reason does Twilight have to be scared of her?  Twilight seems genuinely afraid of the princesses getting mad, which is shown both here twice, and in season 7's "A Royal Problem".  And seriously, what kind of leader takes pleasure in making their subjects, their personal students, feel scared at the prospect of making them mad and laughs at it?

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  • 1 month later...

I've always thought that Celestia is well aware of how much she is to blame for Sunset's fall, but the show just does a really poor job of displaying it. The same goes for her trolling sense of humor. Celestia, in my mind, would know better than to frighten Twilight and Sunset, the former because she's just neurotic about the prospect of somehow failing her, and the latter because she knows damn well how guilty Sunset feels about everything that's happened. She would definitely mess with them, but not in such a callous way. In Forgotten Friendship's case, I just decided to let it slide and cherry-pick the elements that I did like. At this point, my headcanon is only loosely connected to the actual canon, exactly because of things like this, where Celestia seems to accept none of the blame.

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  • 1 month later...

And now we have proof that Sunset's fall was at least partially to blame on Celestia, because in the last episode The Last Problem,

Spoiler

Twilight has a student named Luster Dawn, who to me was very close to Sunset in terms of character, and Luster was starting to go down that path, but she wasn't as far down, but Twilight took the time to show her the benefits of friendship instead of showing her an artifact where she then proceeds to tell her student absolutely nothing about and never explains WHY her student needs to make friends and act nice.

 

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  • 5 months later...

With such a nice reunion of Sunset Shimmer and Princess Celestia and Princess Luna in Forgotten Friendship, we really needed a story telling how things became the way they were, and why nothing was done to fix the friendship problem sooner.

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  • 7 months later...

Agreed. Celestia's also to be blamed for Sunset's downfall. I guess the comic was released to show what happened between Sunset and Celestia but it makes more questions. For one, it makes no sense why Celestia show Sunset the mirror and not tell what it is. Maybe it works like the mirror of erised when it's not open. But Celestia should make heed of this and try to help Sunset. When she asked Sunset to make friends, Sunset tried but she was failed because of her ego. But when she told Celestia about this, if I remember right, all Celestia does is telling she was not trying harder and to try again. Something similar happened with Luna in that episode where Luna try to connect with the ponies in nightmare night. But her lack of knowledge about the current social made her do everything wrong. So Twilight had to help her. If it's not for Rainbow's stupid pranks and Pinkie's games, Luna would have be friends with a lot of ponies early. However, this didn't happen with Sunset as instead giving advice like a good mentor, Celestia just told her to try harder. This made me think that even though Celestia is a thousand year old princess, she has less experience when it comes to relationships. So in my opinion, it's more of Celestia's fault for not bringing Sunset to the right path like a good mentor.

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