Why did they use Grogar only for him to be a fake?

[Thrond 3,263]

Just now, Califorum said:

That is a good lesson in itself. Not everyone will be your friend and some are just the way they are - lost in their ways. 

Sure, fine, and for these characters it makes narrative sense. All the same, I do think there was something appealing about My Little Pony at its most naïve, when it tried to see the best in everyone and gave everyone a second chance. Made for nice escapism. 

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

57 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Fair enough, I guess; they wound up doing pretty much exactly what I expected them to do. I kinda miss the villain reformations in this show - they mostly vanished in the last two seasons - but that trio seemed unrepentant and power-hungry and I would be a bit surprised if they were sold on the power of friendship. 

I don't necessarily mind that the trio didn't get reformed, but I do wish we saw the heroes try at some point. I mean, Starlight did try with Chrysalis at one point so there was that, but Cozy just got tossed in Tartarus with barely any attempt even though it would have been pretty easy to try with her considering she's just a filly, and Tirek got nothing at all. People say they were unrepentant and that's true...but so was Discord. He only showed anything resembling goodness after an entire episode's worth of a Fluttershy reformation program. Heck, I'd actually argue Frenemies shows they all have the potential to be good, because they all had a brief moment of clarity before Chrysalis snapped them out of it, what would have happened if they had a similar realization around others who actually wanted to help them instead of other villains who'd reinforce their negative side?

Edited November 13, 2020 by BastementSparkle

[O-78 28,607]

Because Hasbro is full of idiots. That's why.

[Thrond 3,263]

35 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

I don't necessarily mind that the trio didn't get reformed, but I do wish we saw the heroes try at some point. I mean, Starlight did try with Chrysalis at one point so there was that

I think it would have made sense if they had tried, but it's not the end of the world to me. Kind of annoyed that they decided that was Starlight's "thing" at one point, honestly, given that it was Twilight who decided to give her a second chance. I do think that the mane six should be talking to the villains as plan A at this point, but eh, what we got was cool. 

35 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

but Cozy just got tossed in Tartarus with barely any attempt even though it would have been pretty easy to try with her considering she's just a filly, and Tirek got nothing at all. People say they were unrepentant and that's true...but so was Discord.

Discord was always a bit weird, especially since he never really stopped being a jerk; hypothetically, Tirek would be just as useful in fending off future threats, and Cozy Glow... is pretty clever. Still, I don't think being just a child would change anything with Cozy Glow - far as I'm concerned, she's not much different from Tirek. Admittedly, though, they could have just thrown her in a normal prison. Chrysalis probably had the most chance of the lot, if only because she was presumably starving, but she's such a narcissistic hothead that she would never admit to being wrong. 

35 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

Heck, I'd actually argue Frenemies shows they all have the potential to be good, because they all had a brief moment of clarity before Chrysalis snapped them out of it, what would have happened if they had a similar realization around others who actually wanted to help them instead of other villains who'd reinforce their negative side?

For a moment there I thought the show was going in that direction, but the "Summer Sun Celebration" episode went in pretty much the opposite direction. Worth noting that Cozy Glow always knew how cool friendship is, and it did nothing to make her less power-hungry. 

Edited November 14, 2020 by AlexanderThrond

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

11 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I think it would have made sense if they had tried, but it's not the end of the world to me. Kind of annoyed that they decided that was Starlight's "thing" at one point, honestly, given that it was Twilight who decided to give her a second chance. I do think that the mane six should be talking to the villains as plan A at this point, but eh, what we got was cool. 

It bugs me mostly because through Season 5 to 7 and even the movie the show was really hammering the point home about trying to reach out. Starlight, the Changeling's, the Pony of Shadows, Tempest, etc. Constantly our heroes are encountering villains who can be stopped or helped if they just take the time to try, and then in the last two seasons they just...stop. Like, it's fine to not have the villains reform, but it's odd to have the heroes simply stop trying, feels like it's going a bit against previous lessons. Twilight and Starlight especially should both have it pretty drilled into their heads to try by this point. Especially weird with Chrysalis and Starlight, because Chrysalis in the Season 9 finale is basically doing the exact thing Starlight did in the Season 5 finale, trying to take revenge on the pony who they both felt "Took everything from them", yet Starlight doesn't try to help despite Twilight having done exactly that for her in the same situation.

 

19 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Discord was always a bit weird, especially since he never really stopped being a jerk; hypothetically, Tirek would be just as useful in fending off future threats, and Cozy Glow... is pretty clever. Still, I don't think being just a child would change anything with Cozy Glow - far as I'm concerned, she's not much different from Tirek. Admittedly, though, they could have just thrown her in a normal prison. Chrysalis probably had the most chance of the lot, if only because she was presumably starving, but she's such a narcissistic hothead that she would never admit to being wrong. 

 I didn't mean Cozy would be easy to reform because she's a kid, just that it'd be easy to try. She has no special powers, she can't eat magic or shapeshift or warp reality, she's just a manipulative pegasus filly. The second somebody catches onto her manipulative schtick she's powerless. Even with Rusty Bucket, who actually wanted to help her and be her friend, she couldn't do anything to him once he kept saying no, because all she's really got going for her is smarts and a cute factor that fails once the façade drops. Our heroes would lose nothing by trying to help her except their time.

 

16 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

For a moment there I thought the show was going in that direction, but the "Summer Sun Celebration" episode went in pretty much the opposite direction. Worth noting that Cozy Glow always knew how cool friendship is, and it did nothing to make her less power-hungry. 

Cozy Glow only thinks of friendship as a source of power though, and to an extent she's not even wrong. In this show especially it literally is, but she never seemed to really understand friendship was more than that, she's just thinking of how she can use it for herself. Friendship is actually specifically the thing she's power-hungry for. Even then in Frenemies when she and the other villains work together she specifically admits it "Felt better somehow". Not even just good, but better. She snaps out of it because of Chrysalis, but if she came to that conclusion in another scenario without Chrysalis, who knows what could have happened? Same with Tirek too.

[Thrond 3,263]

2 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

It bugs me mostly because through Season 5 to 7 and even the movie the show was really hammering the point home about trying to reach out. Starlight, the Changeling's, the Pony of Shadows, Tempest, etc. Constantly our heroes are encountering villains who can be stopped or helped if they just take the time to try, and then in the last two seasons they just...stop. Like, it's fine to not have the villains reform, but it's odd to have the heroes simply stop trying, feels like it's going a bit against previous lessons. Twilight and Starlight especially should both have it pretty drilled into their heads to try by this point. Especially weird with Chrysalis and Starlight, because Chrysalis in the Season 9 finale is basically doing the exact thing Starlight did in the Season 5 finale, trying to take revenge on the pony who they both felt "Took everything from them", yet Starlight doesn't try to help despite Twilight having done exactly that for her in the same situation.

If anything, I would have loved to see someone other than Starlight or Twilight take on such a role - these two-parters are the show at its least interesting, but all the same it kinda irritated me that Twilight's friends never got the spotlight. Especially in later seasons they're always considered as a group, and are always the B-story to someone else's A-story. Though the season 9 finale was pretty evenly split, honestly. In any case I would have only wanted a short attempt that quickly failed, so I don't think it's important to that story. 

The difference between Starlight and Chrysalis is that Starlight seems to have genuinely wanted to do what's best for Equestria, as long as it was what she thought was best, whereas Chrysalis only ever cared about herself. 
 

14 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

 I didn't mean Cozy would be easy to reform because she's a kid, just that it'd be easy to try. She has no special powers, she can't eat magic or shapeshift or warp reality, she's just a manipulative pegasus filly. The second somebody catches onto her manipulative schtick she's powerless. Even with Rusty Bucket, who actually wanted to help her and be her friend, she couldn't do anything to him once he kept saying no, because all she's really got going for her is smarts and a cute factor that fails once the façade drops. Our heroes would lose nothing by trying to help her except their time.

Oh, now I understand, that makes sense. I suppose they could have tried a little harder, but she didn't seem to listen when told that her dumb ideas about friendship are wrong, and she literally took classes in friendship and was no nicer for it. 

16 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

Cozy Glow only thinks of friendship as a source of power though, and to an extent she's not even wrong. In this show especially it literally is, but she never seemed to really understand friendship was more than that, she's just thinking of how she can use it for herself. Friendship is actually specifically the thing she's power-hungry for. Even then in Frenemies when she and the other villains work together she specifically admits it "Felt better somehow". Not even just good, but better. She snaps out of it because of Chrysalis, but if she came to that conclusion in another scenario without Chrysalis, who knows what could have happened? Same with Tirek too.

Oh yeah. I was actually warming up to that possibility because those three were so silly in that episode. 

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

17 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

If anything, I would have loved to see someone other than Starlight or Twilight take on such a role - these two-parters are the show at its least interesting, but all the same it kinda irritated me that Twilight's friends never got the spotlight. Especially in later seasons they're always considered as a group, and are always the B-story to someone else's A-story. Though the season 9 finale was pretty evenly split, honestly. In any case I would have only wanted a short attempt that quickly failed, so I don't think it's important to that story. 

Yeah, it would be nice. Especially later in the show the Mane Five kind of turn into a bit of a hivemind in Season two-parters. Season 9's premiere is a good example where they're all so gung-ho about ruling Equestria right off the bat. Which is especially odd since they sort of end up not doing any ruling later on anyway. Some of Season 9's writing is really strange.

17 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

The difference between Starlight and Chrysalis is that Starlight seems to have genuinely wanted to do what's best for Equestria, as long as it was what she thought was best, whereas Chrysalis only ever cared about herself. 

In this case I was comparing Season 9 Chryssy to Starlight from her finale though, where all she wanted was revenge on Twilight. In that case she didn't care much about doing what was best, she just wanted to get back at Twilight because she felt wronged. Even after seeing the damage she's causing she nearly ends up tearing the time travel scroll apart anyway, partially out of denial of what she saw, but still. Though I think you're being a little more charitable to Starlight than I would be here, I'm not sure her village was ever truly about doing what she felt was right as much as it was about enacting control and having "Friends" who wouldn't, or couldn't leave her.

17 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Oh, now I understand, that makes sense. I suppose they could have tried a little harder, but she didn't seem to listen when told that her dumb ideas about friendship are wrong, and she literally took classes in friendship and was no nicer for it. 

She already seemed to have come to her own conclusions about friendship though, so I think she'd probably just see any and all classes through her own twisted lens. She'd need some kind of specialized help, and of course she didn't immediately listen, why would she? She's not given any real reason to think she's wrong except others saying she is, and considering she outsmarted them all she has no real reason to listen. If she can be helped it'd take a lot more than just a few words.

17 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Oh yeah. I was actually warming up to that possibility because those three were so silly in that episode. 

Honestly, I think if they had been reformed it could have been FIM's best reformation. We've never seen the show actually humanize and make the villains sympathetic before their reformation like this. Any sympathetic traits they may have usually only show up in the same episode they reform in, but here if they went that route they'd have built it up a lot better.

Edited November 14, 2020 by BastementSparkle

[Thrond 3,263]

13 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

Which is especially odd since they sort of end up not doing any ruling later on anyway. Some of Season 9's writing is really strange.

I would say that everything about Twilight succeeding Celestia is rushed and sloppy but that's off-topic. 

14 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

Though I think you're being a little more charitable to Starlight than I would be here, I'm not sure her village was ever truly about doing what she felt was right as much as it was about enacting control and having "Friends" who wouldn't, or couldn't leave her.

The show's always been kinda ambiguous on that front. I'm just saying that I don't think Chrysalis would be as likely to turn leaf as Starlight, though it would have been interesting to see.

16 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

If she can be helped it'd take a lot more than just a few words.

That might be a big "if," even at such an early age. 

17 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

Honestly, I think if they had been reformed it could have been FIM's best reformation. We've never seen the show actually humanize and make the villains sympathetic before their reformation like this. Any sympathetic traits they may have usually only show up in the same episode they reform in, but here if they went that route they'd have built it up a lot better.

At the very least it could have been fun, though I thought what we got in the end was pretty fun as well. 

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,713]

My guess is that they wrote themselves into a corner and were like "Screw it, Discord it is." He is an easy get out of jail free card in terms of the writing. Discord can be anything so either they planned it from the beginning, which is dumb, or they didn't know what to actually do with Grogar, so they made him Discord instead for a stupid lesson thing, which is also dumb. Dumbgar and Dumbcord.

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

1 minute ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I would say that everything about Twilight succeeding Celestia is rushed and sloppy but that's off-topic. 

Agreed.

2 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

The show's always been kinda ambiguous on that front. I'm just saying that I don't think Chrysalis would be as likely to turn leaf as Starlight, though it would have been interesting to see.

Also agreed, and if Chrysalis could be helped by someone I sincerely doubt it'd be Starlight. I was more so saying it's odd that Starlight didn't try. Even just a token "You don't have to do this, we can talk it out!" or whatever would have been nice.

6 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

That might be a big "if," even at such an early age. 

Perhaps. But Discord was an even bigger "If" and that turned out to work. Kind of. At the very least he's genuine about liking Fluttershy and he's restraining himself from turning the world into a madhouse. If they could try with him, don't see why not with Cozy.

10 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

At the very least it could have been fun, though I thought what we got in the end was pretty fun as well. 

Well, I don't entirely agree...but I'll admit, I probably would have liked it quite a bit more if it wasn't for the Discord twist and all the lost potential of Grogar. It's certainly got some cool action scenes at least.

[Thrond 3,263]

14 minutes ago, Califorum said:

I would like to have seen them escape, leaving the audience leaving them wondering where they went. 

For the series finale? Seems less than satisfying. 

[Thrond 3,263]

5 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

Perhaps. But Discord was an even bigger "If" and that turned out to work. Kind of. At the very least he's genuine about liking Fluttershy and he's restraining himself from turning the world into a madhouse. If they could try with him, don't see why not with Cozy.

Yeah, I guess. That wasn't a deal-breaker for me with that episode. 

7 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

Well, I don't entirely agree...but I'll admit, I probably would have liked it quite a bit more if it wasn't for the Discord twist and all the lost potential of Grogar. It's certainly got some cool action scenes at least.

The idea is that Discord inspired a personal crisis in Twilight due to a misguided attempt to test her, which I think is a good idea, but I wasn't particularly moved by the specific personal crisis that she had in that episode. The thing is, because that two-parter is slightly darker than the others, because its action scenes are so good, and because everyone gets a moment of heroism, I found it genuinely exciting and suspenseful in a way that the show almost never was before. 

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

2 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

The idea is that Discord inspired a personal crisis in Twilight due to a misguided attempt to test her, which I think is a good idea, but I wasn't particularly moved by the specific personal crisis that she had in that episode. The thing is, because that two-parter is slightly darker than the others, because its action scenes are so good, and because everyone gets a moment of heroism, I found it genuinely exciting and suspenseful in a way that the show almost never was before. 

I understand the idea, I even think in theory it's not a bad one. I just don't like the execution, or that it comes at the expense of a real Grogar, or that it's the last big contribution to the show Discord makes. The way it's handled makes Discord look extremely dumb to an extent he's never been before, and he doesn't get much of a chance to make up for his mistakes because the show is ending, at best he just breaks the ponies out of prison. That's a nice start but far from enough, it leaves his character on a really unsatisfying note. The fact that he's actually allowed to not only suggest but help carry out the trio's punishment even after all he did is also a real sore spot for me. It also sours his involvement in the Season premiere retroactively, which I actually quite liked, plus the lesson he taught the girls there, that they don't need the Elements to use their friendship power is...kind of ignored for the entire finale, up until they relearn it at the end.

[Thrond 3,263]

14 minutes ago, BastementSparkle said:

The way it's handled makes Discord look extremely dumb to an extent he's never been before, and he doesn't get much of a chance to make up for his mistakes because the show is ending, at best he just breaks the ponies out of prison. That's a nice start but far from enough, it leaves his character on a really unsatisfying note.

I feel like Discord has always kinda been like that, so I was never particularly invested in him. I was always wondering why the mane six tolerate him at all. 

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

1 hour ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I feel like Discord has always kinda been like that, so I was never particularly invested in him. I was always wondering why the mane six tolerate him at all. 

He's overconfident, and not as much of a chessmaster as he sometimes like to pretend he is, but I don't think he's ever been quite as dumb as he was in this season before. In Season 2 he was actually shown to be fairly intelligent, with his fatal flaw being that once his plan was complete he's arrogant enough to assume his victory is permanent and thus he stops paying attention to the mane six. Here he screws up because he doesn't even bother to monitor the people he's trying to manipulate at all, which feels very unlike him.

 I've kind of always felt like they tolerate him because from a certain perspective, he's kind of a child. He says Fluttershy is the first friend he's ever had, he's new to friendship and probably real social interaction to an extreme. He's never really had to care about how people other than himself feel before, and considering how powerful he is I wouldn't be all that shocked if getting turned to stone by Celestia and Luna just might be the first time he's ever had to face any kind of consequence for anything he's done. He has all the emotional and social maturity of a literal child alongside basically godlike power, and then on top of that he's a being of chaos. He's definitely the kind of person that would require a ton of patience.

Edited November 14, 2020 by BastementSparkle

[Thrond 3,263]

2 hours ago, BastementSparkle said:

He's overconfident, and not as much of a chessmaster as he sometimes like to pretend he is, but I don't think he's ever been quite as dumb as he was in this season before. In Season 2 he was actually shown to be fairly intelligent, with his fatal flaw being that once his plan was complete he's arrogant enough to assume his victory is permanent and thus he stops paying attention to the mane six. 

The weird thing about that season 2 two-parter is that he did defeat the mane six. From his perspective, he had already won. The six of them had succumbed to his magic and had stopped caring. He was defeated because he didn't understand friendship, which was (somehow) powerful enough to overcome his magic. 

2 hours ago, BastementSparkle said:

Here he screws up because he doesn't even bother to monitor the people he's trying to manipulate at all, which feels very unlike him.

I have to say that I was never paying attention to that aspect. To some extent it all worked out according to plan - Twilight defeated them, saved Equestria, and became confident enough to rule the country. Honestly it was a dumb idea to begin with, but I never respected his schemes to teach someone a lesson. 

 

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

28 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

The weird thing about that season 2 two-parter is that he did defeat the mane six. From his perspective, he had already won. The six of them had succumbed to his magic and had stopped caring. He was defeated because he didn't understand friendship, which was (somehow) powerful enough to overcome his magic. 

Yes, that was my point, though you worded it better. Discord's plan initially works flawlessly, but he was arrogant enough to believe that was simply it, he wins, game over. He didn't understand friendship enough to realize what he did could be reversed and was so stupidly confident he didn't realize they'd reharmonized.

28 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I have to say that I was never paying attention to that aspect. To some extent it all worked out according to plan - Twilight defeated them, saved Equestria, and became confident enough to rule the country. Honestly it was a dumb idea to begin with, but I never respected his schemes to teach someone a lesson. 

Yeah, Discord getting backstabbed the way he did is my issue, because it doesn't make much sense. It requires him to have not been monitoring the trio at all, which he not only easily could do, but would do. Discord pays attention to the toys he's playing with and he's even implied to spy on his own friends more than a few times, so why not enemies he's manipulating? He'd know they have the bell and that they're doing stuff behind his back. I can buy that he'd pull off a stupid plan like this, I can even buy it backfiring in his face somehow due to him overlooking something, but the specific way it happens really only goes down because the plot demands it does and no other reason.

Edited November 14, 2020 by BastementSparkle

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

16 hours ago, Oleks said:

Here's what Jim Miller said in his Q&A:

Q: Was Grogar being Discord in disguise always planned, or was that added in later drafts for the season arc?

A: It was planned from the beginning. You think we were going to let a brand new baddie (new to this Gen, anyway) be the one to take on our girls at the end? We wanted it to be those 3 to have that personal connection.

There is no way he will say “We had no idea what we were doing at the time!” even if it is true.

But who plans such a story that turns up to be a half baked one?

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

The show hyped Grogar up knowing exactly what people would expect. Then they subverted their expectations for the sake of it and ended up being a nonsensical mediocre storyline, satisfying almost nobody in the demographic. Some people were “OK”, some people “Didn’t mind”, but not many people thought it was clever or satisfying or well executed.

They didn’t achieve anything good by the twist. Why didn’t they make Grogar real and make Chrysalis, Tirek, Cozy Glow turn their backs against him?

Edited November 14, 2020 by Sepul-Coloratura

[CypherHoof 26,483]

OK, some thoughts.
 

I think the writers had noticed that Grogar was showing up in fanart and were trying to use him somehow, given this would be the last-ever season of FiM. I give them props for trying to subvert the now tired "threat from a thousand years ago" plotline, but subtract points for how badly they wrote it.

Discord doing this is absolutely in character. As has been pointed out already, Tirek (and probably the others) would have no reason to trust and work for him unless he was disguised, and what better disguise than a legendary bad guy?  He loses SERIOUS points for being instrumental in the wounding of the Tree, and am happy that the Mane 6 stuffed Sombra back where he came from after that one.

I am unsure about the Bell. Clearly things went badly wrong for Discord over that, but I think Discord's chaotic nature requires he build in multiple opportunities for failure in his plans (see also Xaos/Pandora from the El Goonish universe for this).  The whole "sucking magic" thing is a plot hole here though; why they didn't use the Bell to remove the magic from those they captured (or just have Tirek do it) is still a point of confusion.

That crazy glue didn't "get a trial" before being consigned to Tartarus is a non-issue. She was put there personally by Celestia, who in a monarchy would be the final judge (and possibly in Equestria the only judge; they don't seem to have a court system)

If being turned to stone is worse than being consigned to Tartarus is a more complex question. Being confined for long periods of time without any opportunity for rehabilitation is a rather severe punishment, and I think less of Equestria for having it as an option. Being turned to stone, especially if you remain aware of what happens outside you, is even worse. If you aren't aware though, it could actually be a less abusive option - because it leaves the opportunity that (like with Discord) you could be unstoned later, rehabilitation attempted, then if it fails, stuck back in storage again until the next attempt.

I am also concerned about the wild (magical) animals trapped in Tartarus; they really shouldn't be there, and I suspect they were just convenient asset re-use rather than having a genuine reason for being incarcerated.

[Evil Pink One 13,507]

For the movie 2......

[nightshroud96 124]

On 11/13/2020 at 2:05 AM, Jedishy said:

Because the plan was perfectly Discord in nature. This has been the exact way he taught lessons since the episode where the chaos vines ran amok.

He creates an struggle and keeps barely enough control of it to ensure the Mane 6 can beat it and not get hurt.

So why Gregor? Because they wouldn't trust him at that point and he needed a powerful figure that could cow them into working with each other and who had a prize worthwhile enough to give them focus 

Both plans also ends up making the princesses look really bad too honestly..

[nightshroud96 124]

On 11/13/2020 at 5:56 PM, Califorum said:

That is a good lesson in itself. Not everyone will be your friend and some are just the way they are - lost in their ways. 

The lesson was already done though.
With what happened to Sombra, Shadows, Storm King
The criteria for that lesson was already fulfilled.

On 11/13/2020 at 7:24 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

I think it would have made sense if they had tried, but it's not the end of the world to me. Kind of annoyed that they decided that was Starlight's "thing" at one point, honestly, given that it was Twilight who decided to give her a second chance. I do think that the mane six should be talking to the villains as plan A at this point, but eh, what we got was cool. 

 

I wished Luna got to try to reform some villains.
She was the show's first reformed villain pretty much there.

[Rumpelstiltskin 45]

Because the writers are a bunch of hack-frauds who thought subversion makes things good. 

I wanted to see what Grogar was going to do. I wanted to see what big plan he had and why he needed the villains for it. Instead we got to see Discord showing us he's not changed at all and is still a sociopathic puppeteer who treats people like toys and because he's 'reformed' he gets away with it. 

[ChB 18,561]

Because, sadly, they couldn't come up with a better story-arc involving Grogar.