A "secular" point for reincarnation?

[I_wesley125 393]

I was thinking about death as I often do (No, I'm not emo) and I came up with a hypothesis.

 

This point assumes no such thing as astral projection, a soul or anything of the sort.

Our brain is of a finite physical size, therefore only a finite number of quantum states can exist within an area the size of our brain, or smaller.

The majority of quantum states that exist within an area the size of our brain will not produce intelligence, far less consciousness.

Assuming consciousness originates from our brain, the specific quantum state that is our brain or even our individual consciousness could take place a second time.

 

What do you think?

Edited August 5, 2012 by I_wesley125

[Finesthour 7,287]

If our brains die, it is dead.

 

It will lose all oxygen, all support from the bloodstream.

 

It needs circulation of blood to survive.

 

If it rots and dies, it won't be coming back.

[I_wesley125 393]

If our brains die, it is dead.

 

It will lose all oxygen, all support from the bloodstream.

 

It needs circulation of blood to survive.

 

If it rots and dies, it won't be coming back.

 

It is very hard to define consciousness but my point is this; the system that allows for our brain to be "conscious" will probably take place again in a finite period of time.

[Killian Jones 2,655]

This is a funny topic, because in fact this is entirely possible for this to happen.

 

Although consciousness is a weird thing, it could really reemerge, even though the likelyness of this happening is small given enough time (like a googolplex Planck times, years or millennia) it is bound to occur again.

[Finesthour 7,287]

So... I understand none of this xD

 

Oh mighty Tich, please teach me what the heck this means ;-;

 

@,

[Titan Rising 2,156]

I'm having a pretty hard time understanding exactly what you're meaning to say, but are you implying that when we die and lose whatever gives us our consciousness - that in a finite period of time those pieces could come back together and basically reincarnate this exact consciousness? So I may reawaken in another billion years after I'm dead as the same person I am now for example?

Edited August 5, 2012 by Hollowshield

[I_wesley125 393]

I'm having a pretty hard time understanding exactly what you're meaning to say, but are you implying that when we die and lose whatever gives us our consciousness - that in a finite period of time those pieces could come back together and basically reincarnate this exact consciousness? So I may reawaken in another billion years after I'm dead as the same person I am now

 

Yes, but something around 10^10^100 Planck times, or days, years, eons, with such a large number it does not really matter.

[Nanniro 39]

Quantum states are crazy ideas. Crazy as in headache-inducing. Reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain

 

A thought I had once for a scientific approach is the laws of conservation of energy and matter. Energy and Matter cannot be created or destroyed, they can only change forms. So it's obvious that our bodies decompose and fuel the next lifeforms (Plants, most likely), but what happens to the energy of our body? Most of the heat is lost to the atmosphere, all of the kinetic and potential energy is lost to the Earth, but what of the bio-electricity? Some studies suggest that a human's consciousness can exist outside of the body. I'm thinking of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind

 

Of course, this all assumes that our self-awareness and intelligence is not just an advancement of neuron density in the frontal lobe of our brains. Either way, even Carl Sagan suggested we need more research about reincarnation. Not that he believed it, but he figured we need to investigate it.

[Titan Rising 2,156]

Yes, but something around 10^10^100 Planck times, or days, years, eons, with such a large number it does not really matter.

 

That would be assuming a couple things of course.. That the brain is indeed responsible for all consciousness/self awareness/etc. and that those individual pieces that make up said consciousness could somehow retain memory of this consciousness which I don't think would be likely...

 

Well maybe that depends how you define consciousness

 

This consciousness could in fact be recreated piece for piece, but what use would it be if all the pieces retained none of the information that made me me? It would be like if my identity would be completely reset. In any case, I don't think you would remember anything if you were to be reincarnated this way and so I would be hesitant to really call it reincarnation

Edited August 5, 2012 by Hollowshield

[I_wesley125 393]

That would be assuming a couple things of course.. That the brain is indeed responsible for all consciousness/self awareness/etc. and that those individual pieces that make up said consciousness could somehow retain memory of this consciousness which I don't think would be likely...

 

This consciousness could in fact be recreated piece for piece, but what use would it be if all the pieces retained none of the information that made me me? It would be like if my identity would be completely reset. In any case, I don't think you would remember anything if you were to be reincarnated this way.

 

You almost certainly would not remember anything.

Let us assume, for this example that consciousness is simply the clock speed of your brain, (I am not asserting that it is) it is probable that at some point a system with the same "clock speed" will exist.

[Killian Jones 2,655]

@, well, in science we can determine the amount of quantum states (read the amount of ways to assemble) a given volume.

 

Now by means of knowing entropy (entropy being the ways to assemble an object of volume in different ways with same materials), we can determine the chances of having a specific volume come up again.

 

What you need to realize is that even with these low chances. We can still statistically determine the amount of time needed to have assurance that a certain state will happen again. Now given the very unlikely event, there are less quantum states then there is a googolplex (about 10^10^80 ways). You can start making some assumptions.

 

Honestly, this is some pretty difficult stuff and has to do with very, very large numbers, beyond our regular scope of understanding to people who haven't dealt with giant numbers.

 

It is great research material and something to think about.

[Envy 6,206]

This is a funny topic, because in fact this is entirely possible for this to happen.

 

Although consciousness is a weird thing, it could really reemerge, even though the likelyness of this happening is small given enough time (like a googolplex Planck times, years or millennia) it is bound to occur again.

 

I was actually thinking this very same thing when I tried to comfort myself when I stopped believing in an afterlife... It's a bit mind-blowing, but given an incredibly long amount of time (which is still an incredible understatement lol) it could happen again.

 

And it's not like the long amount of time would be anything to us... We have no consciousness during that time... Just like before we were born.

[Solar Wind 595]

being agnostic I always search for what happens after death. If no confirmed explanation is revealed I have to beleive that there are forces beyond our control. A human uses different parts of his/her brain at different times. Assuming this is the case at every time a human has a part of its brain that it uses in death although I have no idea what that part may be this theory may support it.

But my question is how would the reassembled conciousness be able to regain its physical body and form? If it does regain a body at all.

[Evilshy 5,090]

 

 

I was actually thinking this very same thing when I tried to comfort myself when I stopped believing in an afterlife... It's a bit mind-blowing, but given an incredibly long amount of time (which is still an incredible understatement lol) it could happen again.

 

And it's not like the long amount of time would be anything to us... We have no consciousness during that time... Just like before we were born.

 

We're defined by a lot more than just the quantum state of our brains at birth.

Every single thing that you see or experience from the moment of birth influences the way your neurons connect. It's kind of like, the brain at birth is your hardware, but your memories, experiences, everything that really shapes you, is software. Not the best analogy, but I like computers

 

So if you were a computer with certain specs, and you had a catastrophic hardware malfunction (died), then years later, somebody else built a computer with the exact same specs, it's not you. It just has similarities with you. Even if it had the exact same software as well, it would still just be 100% similar to you. It could not even be said to be a copy of you, since that would imply that it was made specifically to emulate you, and even if it was, it still wouldn't be you.

[I_wesley125 393]

-snip-

 

It seems somewhat nonsensical to compare our brain to a computer, even more so to compare our consciousness.

There are a lot more "variables" to take into consideration.

[I used to be a stranger 7,994]

That reminds me of a theoretical problem in geometry, whereby a sphere with a certain size can be disassembled and reassembled into two spheres of the same exact size.

It's called the Banach-Tarski Paradox.

 

Anyways, if we are the same consciousness but "return" without all our memories, our collective experience has been lost and therefore what actually generated the history that caused our personality would be lost by definition. Wouldn't that be fundamentally the same as not being the same consciousness anyways?