[SPOILERS] Did "Magic Duel" violate its own moral?

[sirseansy 87]

Just to clear up any ambiguity, I think that any argument for Trixie (especially this one) is a massive crock of Saddle-Arabian horseshit.

 

I am not, and never have been, and never will be, a Trixie sympathizer. Even after this episode I still despise that pony and personally think that the part where she fell on her face at the end of the episode was the best part. 

 

That being said, the Mane Six were acting in best interest of both the entire community AND Trixie herself when they cheated in this second duel. 

 

The only reason this thread exists is because I KNEW that this argument would come up because of the brony fandom's tendency to reward and defend arrogance.

[Modphase 1,271]

I just thought of something now that you mention that. The reason why Trixie defeated Twilight in the first duel was because of her advantage of using the amulet. The reason why Twilight defeated Trixie in the second duel was because of her help from friends. Even though this might seem like a waste of time, perhaps there should be a third duel, one which the two ponies rely on their raw magical power. That would seem only fair.

[XUNUSEDXXX 3,459]

Yep. Plus Twilight ruined Trixie's career, making Trixie go to such lengths for revenge. Then Trixie apologizes for being mean while having the amulet on, yet Twilight wrecked her career, literally what she was born for, just because her gimmick was boasting.

It isn't Twilight's fault that Trixie was ruined in the slightest. Twilight didn't even intend to ruin Trixie, just to protect the dignity of her friends. It's like running into a shooting range where the targets are while somebody is shooting, then blaming the shooter for "shooting" them.

[NavelColt 22,879]

Trixie brags > Twilight humbly saves the day because she has to > Trixie willingly fucks with dark stuff and takes over in a fit of revenge > Twilight uses her resources to overcome a force she can't normally.

 

I'm not seeing 'cheating'.

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

I just thought of something now that you mention that. The reason why Trixie defeated Twilight in the first duel was because of her advantage of using the amulet. The reason why Twilight defeated Trixie in the second duel was because of her help from friends. Even though this might seem like a waste of time, perhaps there should be a third duel, one which the two ponies rely on their raw magical power. That would seem only fair.

That would be as fair as pitting a child against a grizzly bear. It's pretty obvious that, relying only on magical muscle, Twilight outclasses Trixie enough for it to be called a curbstomp battle. But I do agree with some of what you said.

 

To be entirely technical, yes, they both cheated. Trixie cheated by relying on a amulet to give her power she didn't possess naturally. Twilight cheated in that she didn't actually cast those spells she used to win the second duel, but used the help of her friends and a bit of bluffing/showmanship/deception. I don't think Twilight cheated in using her intelligence, but she did cheat by getting outside help. I don't really think one can defend Twilight further than saying that her cheating was the lesser of the two evils. Responding to cheating by cheating yourself isn't noble to me, but it was the only way to rescue the town from Amulet Trixie. I would have been happier (and even liked Trixie better) if they had somehow convinced Trixie to put aside the Amulet herself, rather than just tricking her into it. That's why I didn't enjoy the episode that much... and also because it actually makes me defend Trixie in part.

 

*Looks in to mirror* "Who are you?!"

Edited December 3, 2012 by Full Spectrum

[Clarity 3,094]

The mane six are not hypocrites trying to embarrass a magician just because she boasted. In Boast Busters, sure, Applejack and the others may have been provoked, but what harm did that do? Might I also add that Trixie embarrassed them as well by tying AJ up, messing with Rarity's mane, etc. Snips and Snails only brought out the Ursa Minor because Trixie said she had banished a Major. Thus, Twilight defeated it to save Ponyville from it. The Ursa Minor was flooding and stomping on buildings.

 

The second time, Trixie wanted revenge herself by her own intention. Twilight did not provoke her. Trixie did that to herself.

[brian577 120]

Moral?  What moral?    Since the episode didn't have a letter at the end I don't think it's possible to say what the moral was.  Was it a lesson in forgiveness?  Humility?  Not to give into revenge?  Somebody clue me in. 

[Dr. Vojislav Seselj 691]

Celestia is still waiting for a letter.

 

Eeyup.

 

 

Trixie didn't really cheat though, because as far as I know, there are no rules against using an evil amulet with a stupid name.

 

Eeyup.

 

True they cheated to win, but guesses what would have happen if they did not cheat?? They would have still been in slave to a BIG BLUE JERK, thats what.

 

Eeyup-yup-yup.

 

My opinion is: Trixie + amulet = kick Twi's ass, also enslave Ponyville ; Trixie - amulet = boasting showoff.

 

But, this video made me actually like Trixie because of the levitation scene where she actually apologizes.

(Also, DERPY IS BACK! )

Edited December 3, 2012 by StefanSreto (Chetnik)

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

 

My opinion is: Trixie + amulet = kick Twi's ass, also enslave Ponyville ; Trixie - amulet = boasting showoff.

 

But, this video made me actually like Trixie because of the levitation scene where she actually apologizes.

(Also, DERPY IS BACK! )

Well, it was an apology, and that is great, but she kind of just blamed it all on the amulet. "I treated you and your friends so badly while I was wearing that amulet. I just couldn't stop myself..." Great, Trixie, but that doesn't excuse you from putting the amulet on in the first place.

 

 

 

 

 

But still...TRIXIE APOLOGIZED! Isn't that just...wonderful? 

Yes. Yes, she did.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Full Spectrum

[Dr. Vojislav Seselj 691]

Well, it was an apology, and that is great, but she kind of just blamed it all on the amulet. "I treated you and your friends so badly while I was wearing that amulet. I just couldn't stop myself..." Great, Trixie, but that doesn't excuse you from putting the amulet on in the first place.

 

But still...TRIXIE APOLOGIZED! Isn't that just...wonderful?

 

waste space waste space waste space waste space waste space waste space

[PonyEcho 1,610]

I don't think there even was a moral for this episode its just fan service.

 

and you can't say Twilight cheated because all she was rely doing was compensating for a unfair contest using trickery and slight of hand to gain the upper hand. also there was no rule to say she couldn't do that.

Edited December 3, 2012 by PonyEcho

[Marceline 187]

That would be as fair as pitting a child against a grizzly bear. It's pretty obvious that, relying only on magical muscle, Twilight outclasses Trixie enough for it to be called a curbstomp battle. But I do agree with some of what you said.

 

To be entirely technical, yes, they both cheated. Trixie cheated by relying on a amulet to give her power she didn't possess naturally. Twilight cheated in that she didn't actually cast those spells she used to win the second duel, but used the help of her friends and a bit of bluffing/showmanship/deception. I don't think Twilight cheated in using her intelligence, but she did cheat by getting outside help. I don't really think one can defend Twilight further than saying that her cheating was the lesser of the two evils. Responding to cheating by cheating yourself isn't noble to me, but it was the only way to rescue the town from Amulet Trixie. I would have been happier (and even liked Trixie better) if they had somehow convinced Trixie to put aside the Amulet herself, rather than just tricking her into it. That's why I didn't enjoy the episode that much... and also because it actually makes me defend Trixie in part.

 

*Looks in to mirror* "Who are you?!"

 

I don't think there was even any cheating involved from the start.  Trixie just used the excuse of a magic duel as a way to kick Twilight out of Ponyville and take over.  It was a ruse - there was no actual competition from the start, because Trixie knew that the amulet would ensure her victory. It was just an effective segue to taking over Ponyville as revenge.

 

Even if it was a true competition, no rules were ever set that one could not use extra help.  Trixie's extra help came from the amulet, whereas Twilight's came from her friends.  If the rules had been raw power and magic, then, Trixie would've had to remove the amulet and she would've been stopped right there.  If she violated her own rules, I'm pretty sure it would start a huge magic fight.  A serious one, not just performing tricks on other ponies and stuff.

Plus, if "cheating" meant I saved my entire town from being enslaved and humiliated by some vengeful mare, I'd do it.  It's better than letting them . . . be enslaved and humiliated!

[WildCard 1,037]

Neither Twilight nor herself ruined her career in my opinion. It was a lot of bad luck that Snips and Snails were so stupid that they actually brought an ursa minor to Ponyville.
I guess y'all know that trick with the magican "catching" a bullet with his teeth? It would be a comparable situation if someone would shoot the magician with a real gun and bullet, because he believes in his powers.

[BaBaBrony 111]

Trixie didn't seem all that evil to me in Boast Busters. The mistakes that she made were born more of vanity than true malice. But she does have a dark side and the amulet exacerbated that.

 

Twilight did the right thing in the end. It's like Lincoln said. "The best way to defeat an enemy is to make him a friend." Hopefully the lesson isn't lost on TGaPT.

Edited December 3, 2012 by BaBaBrony

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

Neither Twilight nor herself ruined her career in my opinion. It was a lot of bad luck that Snips and Snails were so stupid that they actually brought an ursa minor to Ponyville.

I guess y'all know that trick with the magican "catching" a bullet with his teeth? It would be a comparable situation if someone would shoot the magician with a real gun and bullet, because he believes in his powers.

Precisely, and stage magicians frequently (I don't know if it is required by law, but it should be) point out that no matter how "magical" it seems, it is actually a trick, an illusion, and that the audience shouldn't try to do it themselves. In the same way, the professional wrestling associations always have those adverts "Don't try this at home!" precisely because some people are stupid and gullible enough to attempt what they've seen. Trixie would only be entirely off the hook had she provided some kind of similar disclaimer.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Full Spectrum

[Spring Storm 276]

I don't think Twilight cheated. Slight-of-hand magic seems to have some sort of place in the world of ponies - Trixie used it in Boast Busters, and Snips and Snails seemed to be using it in The Show Stoppers. Twilight using it to win was rather brilliant in my opinion, as she managed to beat Trixie at her own game.

 

I agree with others who said that Twilight was doing the lesser of two evils, but I'd like to point out that things could have gotten even grimmer than slavery had Twilight not figured out how to save Ponyville. First off, if Trixie never gave Pinkie her mouth back, how was Pinkie supposed to eat and drink? I'm willing to bet Pinkie wouldn't have lived too much longer. And, the air under that dome would run out eventually if Trixie never lifted it or anything.

 

So Twilight didn't just save the town from slavery - she potentially saved the lives of everypony in the town.