C.Discord's MLP:FiM Primary Villain Anti-thesis Analyzation

[NavelColt 22,876]

I've been making the posters to go with this idea for a while, but I only just now finished doing so, after bringing up the idea in the Magic Duel discussion.

 

Anyway, we've seen a few topics about how the main villains could serve as the elements of disharmony. Going deeper, you can go further than that, and look into how each villain can really serve as the anti-thesis to one of the Mane Six characters in general, past the Elements of Harmony. Being an anti-thesis, the characters don't have to have interacted at all, because it's their personalities and powers, and how the characters use them that make them relate to one another.

 

Nightmare Moon: Anti-thesis to Twilight. Twilight is humble about her abilities, as she was afraid to stop Trixie back in Boast Busters for fear of showing off even a little bit. She has considerable power and love from all her friends, but she remains humble, and treats it as nothing major. Meanwhile, Nightmare Moon is feared by everyone, and craves the attention and respect she believes she so rightfully deserves. She wants to flaunt her abilities and get what is in her eyes, 'proper respect' for her night time, by drowning everyone in it.

 

• The vibrant library represents Twilight's good personality, but a passion for reclusiveness, while Nightmare Moon's midnight castle represents a dark personality, but a passion for desired admiration from all.

 

 

 

 

Discord: Anti-thesis to Pinkie Pie. Pinkie Pie bends reality with classic cartoon antics, and her goal in life is to make everyone happy. She takes chaos and makes it funny and mostly harmless. Discord takes those same powers, amplifies them, and does them out of sheer personal enjoyment, with complete disregard for feelings or relationships; even purposefully trying to ruin them.

 

• This poster was demonstrating happy and harmless 'chaos', as opposed to malicious and untamed 'chaos'.

 

 

 

 

Queen Chrysalis: Anti-thesis to Applejack. Applejack is honorable and caring to those she loves, family and friends alike, and is also noted for her trustworthy and honest personality. Chrysalis on the other hand is despicable, selfish and deceitful. Love is nothing but an instrument to her, something she craves but never uses for others or anything but herself and power. She'll lie and deceive her way to hell and back if that's what it takes for her to gain that power.

 

• Applejack is wide-open like her own apple fields. She speaks her mind how it is, and is honest. Chrysalis is like the dark caves she banishes you to, in that lying is a part of who she is.

 

 

 

 

King Sombra: Anti-thesis to Fluttershy. Fluttershy gathers all of the beings around her, (her animal friends) and nurtures them, takes care of them, and puts their well-being above her own. Sombra takes the beings around him (the Crystal Ponies) and makes them his slaves for his own selfish and cruel desires.

 

• Love and light for Fluttershy's critters represents her kindness, while the dark enslavement of the Crystal Ponies shows Sombra's cruelty.

 

 

 

 

I'll be interested to see if we have a villain character that starts off as good, but then betrays the Mane Six (anti-thesis to loyal Rainbow Dash) and maybe a greedy villain that serves as an anti-thesis to Rarity. Spike demonstrated that in its purest, frankly unintelligent form when he was a full-grown dragon, but all dragons are greedy. I mean an actual villain character made for the part.

 

PS: These posters were rather simple, so I don't see them as their own artwork in any way, unlike the previous poster projects I've undertaken. Which is why this is a discussion topic and not off in Pony Art or something.

Edited December 3, 2012 by ~Chaotic Discord~

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

I find it amusing how Nightmare Moon was the one who ultimately made Twilight realize that she herself couldn't have been defeated without the help of other ponies.

[duidamasterXD 9,626]

This is an interesting idea. Twilight being an antithesis to Nightmare Moon does seem like a bit of a stretch to me, mainly because while Twilight does have humility generally I don't really view it as one of her defining character traits, whereas Nightmare Moon is essentially characterized by her desire to climb out of Celestia's shadow (although now that I think about it Twilight seems to enjoy her association with Celestia, and is honored by the connection)

 

Interesting food for thought

 

The one that definitely jumps out at me is Discord and Pinkie Pie. Pinkie is almost as chaotic as Discord sometimes, yet she uses her chaos as a means to amuse others and "brighten up their day" where Discord sadistically inflicts his chaos on the world for his own personal amusement.

 

I see the parallels in Fluttershy/Sombra and Applejack/Chrysalis as well.

 

Part of me does question whether this is being done intentionally though, because regardless of it all, since the main characters represent positive virtues we are inevitably going to see some inversions of these, villains who are dishonest/unkind etc.

 

But if they are doing this on purpose I would be most curious how they are going to do the disloyal villain (Not just because Dash is best pony) mainly because in order for the betrayal to hit home the character would likely have to be one that we were close to, making the audience feel betrayed. Maybe not though, I don't know.

 

Interestingly, if you read fics from Trinary's Dashverse there are some curious parallels between Rainbow and Luna as well.

 

Thanks for the idea Chaotic Discord, very intriguing.

Edited December 3, 2012 by DashForever

[NavelColt 22,876]

This is an interesting idea to me. Twilight being an antithesis to Nightmare Moon does seem like a bit of a stretch to me, mainly because while Twilight does have humility generally I don't really view it as one of her defining character traits, whereas Nightmare Moon is essentially characterized by her desire to climb out of Celestia's shadow (although now that I think about it Twilight seems to enjoy her association with Celestia, and is honored by the connection)

Humble, not humility :3 She doesn't show off for the sake of showing off, and she doesn't desire mass admiration from everyone for something. That's what I meant.

[duidamasterXD 9,626]

Humble, not humility :3 She doesn't show off for the sake of showing off, and she doesn't desire mass admiration from everyone for something. That's what I meant.

I think I understand what you are saying a bit better now, although I still think a better contrast between the two relates to their connection with Celestia. Twilight treasures it, and according to Sombra's door her greatest fear is losing it, where Luna grew to resent her relationship with Celestia, as it made her always second best and her ultimate desire became to sever their bond permanently and place herself in a position of prominence. To use a crappy and cheesy metaphor, if Celestia is the sun then Twilight would be happy to bask in it forever, but Nightmare Moon resents it, because it casts a big shadow that she can't seem to escape.

 

I do see what you mean about Twilight generally not caring about or even desiring public attention though.

Out of curiosity, do you think they are doing this on purpose?

[NavelColt 22,876]

I think I understand what you are saying a bit better now, although I still think a better contrast between the two relates to their connection with Celestia. Twilight treasures it, and according to Sombra's door her greatest fear is losing it, where Luna grew to resent her relationship with Celestia, as it made her always second best and her ultimate desire became to sever their bond permanently and place herself in a position of prominence. To use a crappy and cheesy metaphor, if Celestia is the sun then Twilight would be happy to bask in it forever, but Nightmare Moon resents it, because it casts a big shadow that she can't seem to escape.

 

I do see what you mean about Twilight generally not caring about or even desiring public attention though.

Out of curiosity, do you think they are doing this on purpose?

That works too :3 I think all the connections work perfectly fine. Maybe it's hard to understand but for me it's really simple to see. Twilight has power that everyone loves her for, but she's like 'it's no big deal, guys, really.' Meanwhile, Nightmare Moon has power, but unlike Twilight, is feared and not loved by everyone, and she's all 'I WILL DROWN YOU ALL IN MY GLORIOUS NIGHT. THEN YOU WILL LOVE ME AND IT FOREVER.'

 

I'm not sure. Even if they aren't I still think it's a far cry from being coincidence. Yes villains will naturally be the opposite of umbrella virtues like what the ponies represent, but the villains all have very similar traits, they just act upon them differently. Discord and Pinkie do the same exact things, but for different reasons. Sombra and Fluttershy both have groups of creatures they are 'in charge' of, but they directly treat them differently. Etc etc.

Edited December 3, 2012 by ~Chaotic Discord~

[Zygen 6,065]

Sounds like an interesting theory actually. And it makes pretty good sense to me to. The only one I have any problems with is twilight and NMM. I dunno, after reading it good I can see it making sense, but I also kinda always saw twilight and Trixie as being opposites. However with the most recent episode that doesn't really work. Since she technically turned "good" after the episode end. (However to be fair NMM kinda did turn good if you call her and Luna the same being. Which brings another interesting thing to discuss for later actually.)

Maybe I'm just thinking of Trixie and twilight being opposite because of how, rival like they seem.

I don't have any real problems with the others, the others make perfect sense to me, I dunno if this is coincidence or not, but I'd actually like to see if this ends up being a trend Hasbro follows in the long term.

[Arcanel 3,041]

Day and night seemed to correspond well enough for these two on this poster, plus the vibrant library represents Twilight's good personality, but a passion for reclusiveness, while Nightmare Moon's midnight castle represents a dark personality, but a passion for desired admiration from all.

I loved all your theory, but I think this is slightly off the mark. Twilight would most likely represnt exactly what her name implies. The twilight, which is the light that comes either at dusk or dawn. So, if anything, I think Twilight represents the passage. Think about it considering how Celestia, Luna and Twilight had that little scene with the lights and cutie marks on the background in The Crystal Empire. Celestia's the day, Luna's the night and Twilight becomes the inbetween, the light that happens when either the day or night ends.................and now that I think about it, Twilight has saved Equestria/Canterlot/Ponyville when Celestia couldn't, and turned Luna out of her corrupted self as NIghtmare Moon...

 

So my thoughts are, that if anything, Twilight represents more of a medium that helps balance the world.

[NavelColt 22,876]

 

I loved all your theory, but I think this is slightly off the mark. Twilight would most likely represnt exactly what her name implies. The twilight, which is the light that comes either at dusk or dawn. So, if anything, I think Twilight represents the passage. Think about it considering how Celestia, Luna and Twilight had that little scene with the lights and cutie marks on the background in The Crystal Empire. Celestia's the day, Luna's the night and Twilight becomes the inbetween, the light that happens when either the day or night ends.................and now that I think about it, Twilight has saved Equestria/Canterlot/Ponyville when Celestia couldn't, and turned Luna out of her corrupted self as NIghtmare Moon...

 

So my thoughts are, that if anything, Twilight represents more of a medium that helps balance the world.

I cut out the first sentence, two responses about it is enough for me xD

 

You're taking that too literally. I didn't mean day and night, I meant 'opposite situations'.

 

The vibrant library represents Twilight's good personality, but a passion for reclusiveness, while Nightmare Moon's midnight castle represents a dark personality, but a passion for desired admiration from all.

 

I stick by my comparison. Read my response two posts above yours, for example.

 

Twilight has power that everyone loves her for, but she's like 'it's no big deal, guys, really.' Meanwhile, Nightmare Moon has power, but unlike Twilight, is feared and not loved by everyone, and she's all 'I WILL DROWN YOU ALL IN MY GLORIOUS NIGHT. THEN YOU WILL LOVE ME AND IT FOREVER.'

Edited December 3, 2012 by ~Chaotic Discord~

[Arcanel 3,041]

I cut out the first sentence, two responses about it is enough for me xD

 

You're taking that too literally. I didn't mean day and night, I meant 'opposite situations' from the thing I described. I stick by my comparison. Read my response two posts above yours, for example.

Sorry, I kind of misread the other posts and didn't thought about it. However, there IS another point you could go look for a Twlilight and Nightmare Moon comparison that actually hits home with the Element.

 

Luna transformed into Nightmare Moon and, instead of relying on friends or even her sister to talk about it, and have her FRIENDS help her, she shunned herself, becoming corrupted, which ended in Celestia having to banish her. Meanwhile, Twilight learned that her friends could help her which unlocks the true pure magic based on FRIENDSHIP that helped her defeat Nightmare Moon and giving us back the Luna that was "inside". I think that could work IMO.

 

 

But if they are doing this on purpose I would be most curious how they are going to do the disloyal villain (Not just because Dash is best pony) mainly because in order for the betrayal to hit home the character would likely have to be one that we were close to, making the audience feel betrayed. Maybe not though, I don't know.

 

 

I believe there are two types of betrayal the writers could use. Either someone who the mane 6 was a friend of them, then completely backstabbed them, OR the villain who has an all following ally, and either the ally betrays him, or the villain betrays his ally, which in either way, it could end up being the downfall of either villain or ally. I think that if they DO something like this, they will ahve to decide which would fit the lesson better. "Appeareances can be deceiving" or  "Never betray your friends, for if you do, you shall fail/fall". Hell, maybe even something with the roundings of "Keep your friends close...and your enemies closer".

 

Like I told CD before, the situations left, betrayal and greed, are interestingly the ones, in my opinion. which are most tweakable.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Arcanel

[SCS 7,443]

This is a very insightful post. I never realized that the main villains could serve as not only the elements of disharmony, but the antithesis of specific mane six ponies. When I think about this, I usually look at it in a more general manner, as in the villains are against goodness in general in different ways.

 

My curiosity is now piqued to find out whether your post is a logical fan interpretation of the show, or something that the writers are doing on purpose. I would not at all be surprised if the writers are doing this on purpose, because sixty five episodes of MLP has shown without a doubt how intelligent they are, as well as what excellent writers they are. Having the villains serve as antitheses to the main characters would make sense and be a great aspect of the show - but what would they do after villain number six? I suppose we'll just have to wait for season four, and beyond, to see whether or not the future villains could serve as antitheses to the rest of the mane six.

[TheSupremeLeaderOfChaos 1,189]

I feel infinitely ridiculous replying to such an old topic, but this is too interesting for me to not put in my two bits. I've actually thought about this before as well, and I think it is quite brilliant.

 

 

If this theory is true, I cannot wait to see what they would do with a disloyal villain. As you stated, I think it would perfect if they made a villain who became close to the Mane 6 and then betrayed them. That would be awesome. I would want to see how they would manage to make the audience feel as if they are betrayed as well, like they made the audience feel as weak as Fluttershy felt in Hurricane Fluttershy or as cast away as Twilight felt at the end of A Canterlot Wedding Pt. 1. I love when a show can make me feel the way the characters feel. It's a sign of a wonderfully made show.

 

 

With a greedy villain, they could go so much further than just what they did with Spike during that one episode whose name slips my mind where he grew up because of greed. They could steal much more than materialistic things; they could take things that are more dear to the Mane 6 and other characters. I can't think this one out as far as I can with a disloyal villain, so I think that would be very interesting to see.

 

 

So, Nightmare Moon. I agree that she would be the anti-thesis of Twilight. She did want attention, though she did in a much more life-threatening way than Trixie, that's for sure. By 'turning off the sun', she would have eventually killed all the plants, in turn killing all of the ponies. Though I'm sure no little kids are thinking about that. She was attention-seeking in the worst way possible, which is the exact opposite of Twilight in Boast Busters. Twilight wanted to help, she just didn't want to draw attention to herself. I guess Twilight's other element could be humilty.

 

 

With Discord (best villain/reformed villain ever!), he definitely counters Pinkie. Pinkie loves to be random, crazy, funny, and sometimes ridiculously chaotic in the happiest, most cheerful way possible. Discord in Return Of Harmony 1 & 2, however, obviously loves the same things, only he only wanted to bring pleasure to himself, not to anyone around him. Result of never having any friends? Maybe. He wants a laugh. And he got these laughs from watching other people suffer. The exact opposite of Pinkie Pie. She is happy when she sees other ponies happy, as she clearly states in The Smile Song.

 

 

Chrysalis is the opposite of Applejack. Absolutely. All she ever did was lie. She lied to Shining Armor, she lied to the ponies, she took a Princess's place and pretended to be her for Pete's sake!. Applejack could definitely tell her a thing or two about honesty, that's for sure. She did all that she did by lying her way to the top. Or at least to that wedding. I don't think I can say very much about this; it kinda speaks for itself.

 

 

Sombra... I didn't like Sombra very much. Not as a character, not as a villain. But I can agree that he is the opposite of kindness. That makes sense. He enslaved ponies, he terrorized them, and scared them into submission. That is not kindness, no way. We really can't tell very much more about his character 'cause all he says is "Crystaaaaalssss" and "Crystaaall Poniiiiesss" and "Crystaaaallll Heaarrrtt". So, yeah. He's not kind. And apparently everything he says has to start with Crystaaaallll something-or-other.

 

 

So... that was a bit more than my two bits. That was maybe twenty. It's almost an essay! Hey, maybe one day, for some random reason, my teacher will ask for an essay on the relativity between the Elements Of Harmony and the villains and I can just find and print this out! That would be awesome!

 

 

/)*(\